Gay in The Last of Us: Left Behind (SPOILERS)

[Imp_Emissary]

To me, revealing Ellie as gay now seems pointless.

It's like when JK Rowling revealed Dumbledore was gay. It never had anything to do with their character in the source material, and it just feels like a retroactive cosmetic addition to win points with the LGBT-friendlies.

Neither Ellie nor Dumbledore ever needed to have their sexuality be a point of interest. Not for plot nor character reasons. And The Last of Us specifically already had a gay character who, in my opinion, was done very well without ever making a show of it. So why bother?

Eh, I wouldn't say they made that much more of a "show of it", than they did for Bill.

The whole of the "big reveal" is one quick kiss on the lips.
Ellie being gay is about the same amount of her character as Bill being gay, or Joel being straight........... <.< Or is he?

;p

 

[Imp_Emissary]

To me, revealing Ellie as gay now seems pointless.

It's like when JK Rowling revealed Dumbledore was gay. It never had anything to do with their character in the source material, and it just feels like a retroactive cosmetic addition to win points with the LGBT-friendlies.

Neither Ellie nor Dumbledore ever needed to have their sexuality be a point of interest. Not for plot nor character reasons. And The Last of Us specifically already had a gay character who, in my opinion, was done very well without ever making a show of it. So why bother?

Spoiler: Lot of neat stuff I didn't want to get rid of, but I wanted to skip to one part.

Pretty much this. Ellie's sexuality was never important or a point of interest. That scene didn't really go anywhere, so it just kinda got a reaction of "...huh, ok" from me. Bill was led on a bit more and had a bigger impact to who he was and how he got into his situation (it also helped that he was very mysterious and we were only just acquainted with him). Not a huge shock kind of impact, but it did give more of an impact to his relationship with Frank. Ellie and Riley's relationship and behaviour in the DLC would've been the same even if they were just best friends minus the kiss (Ellie even said "I'll be your friend again if you gave me a dinosaur").

On that note, years ago I stopped reading a series of kid/teen fantasy books (not worth the spoiler tag to just name it, so I'll be vague). Recently one of the characters that has been around since when I originally read it came out to be gay and there was a shitstorm about it. While I didn't throw a fit, I kind of had a similar reaction that I did with Ellie (the selected passage I read said that the character the entire time had a bit of a crush on another male character in the book). Slightly unrelated, but I also remember seeing a lot of people fuss over Telltale's Walking Dead because while they showed a bunch of well-written minorities usually neglected in games (characters ranging from women, African Americans, Asians, Middle Eastern people, and children) it's somehow a missed opportunity to not have any gays. It's as if it's some kind of checklist or whatnot.

Druckmann and the team don't seem like the kind of people to bait male fanservice or do this for an disingenuous publicity. They put a lot of work to build Ellie as such a likable character in the original campaign, so I doubt they were doing it to yell "Hey! Look at our game with the lesbians!" And they already have shown they're "progressive" through the good press they've had with Bill and their female characters so they shouldn't have at least felt the need to do it for those reasons. I'm not mad or calling it a retcon, but it wasn't necessary and doesn't add a whole lot to how I see her. Their moments together were so cute and I actually preferred it to the more current story. It was fun to see them joking around together instead of me huddling in a corner waiting for a clicker to shuffle away. It's confirmed that Ellie had an attraction to Riley, but we don't know if it was mutual (they said they had a fight and there were a lot of questions about forgiveness throughout the story. The way the questions kept coming up again and again may have hinted something closer and more intimate). We also don't know if this is really her sexuality or whether the emotions and teenager hormones were flaring up (this could have been the last time Ellie saw Riley and/or would be able to hang out).

So ya, not mad, but I'm not sure what we gained through all this.

I haven't read it myself, but there is a comic about Ellie's time before being bitten, when she first met Riley, and I assume ends with Riley leaving, only to return latter.

If ya want to find out more about what happened, you could look for the comic if ya want.
It's called "The Last of Us: American Dreams".

From the few pages I saw, it looked pretty good. If ya don't get your answers, you'll at least have a nice read.

 

[Casual Shinji]

snip

What I hate to see is how we can't have a genuine lesbian character without someone mentioning it was just put in there for male fan service. Love it. Guys like gay women, therefore all gay women in games are there to appeal sexually to men. No decision was made for genuine interest in making the character gay, it was just trying to appeal to horny men.

Even though the girls in question are freaking 15 years old... seriously wtf.

It was done for the sake of being "cutesy-poo", and adding some forced extra proggressiveness to her character. All it did was put a giant sign over her head that says 'Look she's gay too, and thus even more awesome.' Bill was gay, and he was handled perfectly since his orientation got as much exposure as Joel or Tess'. Which is to say not much apart from what you can make out from the dialoge.

...

NO.

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH YOU.

Ellie had her time to mourn, she wasn't that open with Joel to share this info with him. In the time that it took for them to eventually bond, she would of gotten over it by then. Plus, why we do we need to see Riley turn into a zombie. We're intelligent enough to assume what happens afterwards. She's not scarred because she's had people die around her. Death happens, attempted rape and losing your fucking mind hadn't happened to her yet and has been the only event to truly hurt Ellie. And even then she picks herself back up and becomes more determined. It speaks volume of the character. Volumes that went way over your head...

The DLC obviously makes Ellie's confession out to a big thing. A big thing that is never followed up on in the main game. The main reason she even brings up Riley at the very end is for the fact that "she was the first one to go". The first one she outlived, later followed by Tess and Sam. When revealing it to be a romantic relationship, you can't just say 'Oh yeah, and then she got over it.' Then what's the point of even establishing it if it doesn't get backed up in any way by anything she says in the main story? So it's basically a tacked on romance plot, because she gets over it and it holds absolutely no relevance to her later in life.

Riley served her purpose in the main story line just fine, and we're intelligent enough to assume everything we need to from Ellie's own words. The only reason to show it is to see how it went down. All of it. Leaving her death scene out makes the entire venture seem totally pointless, since we already knew they were friends and got bitten.

The thing that really confirmed that Sam was a love interest of Ellie is when she's giving her last words and she says and I quote "Everyone was doing good out there, especially you." I know writing that down that could be taken as anything, but go back and watch it. You'll see what I'm talking about.

Sam wasn't a love interest for Ellie, Ellie was a love interest for Sam. That's what that whole 'So, how old are you...' dialoge was about. Sam wanted to gauge Ellie to see if he had a shot with her, but then realized she was likely two years older. Which when you're a 12-year old boy means you have no fucking chance. Ellie giving Sam the toy also reiterates that she sees him as a kid. Strike two. When she says "Everyone was doing good out there, especially you" she meant it as words of comfort, because she wanted to pick up his spirit.

 

[rbstewart7263]

In response to the idea that her being a teenager(and thus not sure about her sexuality and all that presumably) makes it pointless or that it doesnt count I would argue that this further validates her relevancy as a gay character. many lgbt had to go through teenage confusion and all that so for a different story to mirror that condition gives people something to relate too who can share in that experience.

I mean unless Im wrong I am one of dem straighties so I can be wrong.lol

 

[DeadEyeDan]

To me, revealing Ellie as gay now seems pointless.

It's like when JK Rowling revealed Dumbledore was gay. It never had anything to do with their character in the source material, and it just feels like a retroactive cosmetic addition to win points with the LGBT-friendlies.

Neither Ellie nor Dumbledore ever needed to have their sexuality be a point of interest. Not for plot nor character reasons. And The Last of Us specifically already had a gay character who, in my opinion, was done very well without ever making a show of it. So why bother?

To me Dumbledore being gay effected the events that occured with him and Grindelwald. It becomes clearer that Albus harboured some feelings towards Grindelwald which enabled him to be further convinced into helping Grindelwald with his plans. Plus their falling out and all the other super (more) spoilery stuff that happens during and after that event.

 

[Objectable]

You know, with Ellen Page coming out, and Ellie being TOTALLY NOT based off her, I'm wondering if this is coincidence.

 

[Casual Shinji]

what point was it supposed to have?

To sell.

And to create more Facebook accounts. The moment I saw that message when I booted up the DLC, I felt this stinging anxiety piercing my heart. And then they even mention it in the game. I know it's sorta disguished as a joke, but still, fuck you Facebook.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

...

NO.

I COMPLETELY DISAGREE WITH YOU.

Ellie had her time to mourn, she wasn't that open with Joel to share this info with him. In the time that it took for them to eventually bond, she would of gotten over it by then. Plus, why we do we need to see Riley turn into a zombie. We're intelligent enough to assume what happens afterwards. She's not scarred because she's had people die around her. Death happens, attempted rape and losing your fucking mind hadn't happened to her yet and has been the only event to truly hurt Ellie. And even then she picks herself back up and becomes more determined. It speaks volume of the character. Volumes that went way over your head...

The DLC obviously makes Ellie's confession out to a big thing. A big thing that is never followed up on in the main game. The main reason she even brings up Riley at the very end is for the fact that "she was the first one to go". The first one she outlived, later followed by Tess and Sam. When revealing it to be a romantic relationship, you can't just say 'Oh yeah, and then she got over it.' Then what's the point of even establishing it if it doesn't get backed up in any way by anything she says in the main story? So it's basically a tacked on romance plot, because she gets over it and it holds absolutely no relevance to her later in life.

Riley served her purpose in the main story line just fine, and we're intelligent enough to assume everything we need to from Ellie's own words. The only reason to show it is to see how it went down. All of it. Leaving her death scene out makes the entire venture seem totally pointless, since we already knew they were friends and got bitten.

The thing that really confirmed that Sam was a love interest of Ellie is when she's giving her last words and she says and I quote "Everyone was doing good out there, especially you." I know writing that down that could be taken as anything, but go back and watch it. You'll see what I'm talking about.

Sam wasn't a love interest for Ellie, Ellie was a love interest for Sam. That's what that whole 'So, how old are you...' dialoge was about. Sam wanted to gauge Ellie to see if he had a shot with her, but then realized she was likely two years older. Which when you're a 12-year old boy means you have no fucking chance. Ellie giving Sam the toy also reiterates that she sees him as a kid. Strike two. When she says "Everyone was doing good out there, especially you" she meant it as words of comfort, because she wanted to pick up his spirit.[/quote]

Okay, on the Sam thing, fair enough. But I still disagree on the Riley thing, no one said it didn't have any significance in her life. Matter of fact, Riley's last words to her seem to be something she holds dear and still lives to (with Joel). It's someone who obviously influenced her to be so caring about Joel. I mean there's a certain level of giving a shit that people can do in this world, and Ellie kind of cared more for Joel then most people would in this world. Just look at Tess or hell, even Joel's brother is not this god damn caring and you could make an argument that she's just a kid, but disagree.

On top of that, why the fuck would mention Riley to Joel. I mean seriously, when was there a good time to bring up her dead best friend. There are many people in my life that I love that I don't bring up often. Like my grandmother that passed away, sure I mention her every once in a while, but for the most part, there's usually no reason to bring her up. Until you gave me a reason to bring it up. I just think you're overthinking this entire plot.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

H'okay. I thought it was a useless 1.5 hours long DLC that added nothing to the story. We know what happens. The kiss I'm going to break down into two parts:

1) She's a girl who kissed a girl - who gives a crap? Sure she has no idea about her own sexuality so to speculate is silly without more information. She could be lesbian, could be bi, might even be straight, doesn't matter. Her preferences make no difference.
2) Regardless of her sexuality, it seems her best friend, someone she probably loves, then went and died leaving her alone with survival guilt. This is the bit of the DLC that's most important. It's a little deeper than we probably thought but it's still something we knew already. So meh?

All in all, the only good bit of the DLC was the addition of a scant few extra human bits for Ellie, something the main game had a boatload of already... and the story of the helicopter crew. But really, what was the point of the DLC? You might as well have had Joel coming out as bisexual in a flashback. If you ignored it or it's already in the main story and it makes no difference at all to elaborate, what point was it supposed to have?

To address point one, turning a friendship into a romantic relationship is usually a big deal and change the way people think of a character or see a story. It's not really about her preferences although I find that type of thing personally interesting.

To address point two, there is a difference between being told something and actually visually seeing it. You can tell me you outlived a friend, but to actually see said friend in the flesh and what they were like is always different and something to see. I seriously think Joel bits were the weakest parts of this because that truly was something that had nothing to learn or nothing that I couldn't have already visualized. But the thing that teeters it over the edge of not being useless is juxtaposing it to the Riley bits, where it goes from childhood to harsh reality and you realize that being a 15 year old girl in this world probably sucks ass here. Anyways, that's just my opinion. Interesting to her yours.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

What I hate to see is how we can't have a genuine lesbian character without someone mentioning it was just put in there for male fan service. Love it. Guys like gay women, therefore all gay women in games are there to appeal sexually to men. No decision was made for genuine interest in making the character gay, it was just trying to appeal to horny men.

Even though the girls in question are freaking 15 years old... seriously wtf.

Here's my question, though: presuming that Ellie was always meant to be "gay", what's the purpose behind revealing it now?

Because if her sexuality was a key component to her character that needed to be in the game, it would've been....ya know, in the game, rather than a DLC pack that was added later on.

I dunno if I believe that this was added "for the guyz", but it most definitely does stink of a "look, one of our leads was secretly gay, love us more!" sort of action to score points within the LGBT community, akin to what Rowling did with Dumbledore. Which is somewhat disappointing because The Last of Us was a fairly strong game and story in its own right and hardly needs its devs to go around scoring political points.

The purpose of revealing it now is the purpose of DLC in the first place. It afterthoughts, things to flesh out the character and develop said character more. What other purpose does it need to serve???

 

[MrHide-Patten]

Ellen Paige comes out as a homosexual, Ellie in the Last of Us (Paige's supposed doppleganger) gay. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

In all seriousness though, it was one of those things that shows a side to her that people really wouldn't have been able to tell. All the more proof that anti-gay people are biggots who are afraid their imaginary freind will think worse of them for showing others compassion.

Regardless it was a nice little scene, I could say that about the DLC in general.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

The purpose of revealing it now is the purpose of DLC in the first place. It afterthoughts, things to flesh out the character and develop said character more. What other purpose does it need to serve???

A real purpose, perhaps?

Because asking people to pay $15 just to inform them that, guess what, Ellie was really gay this whole time....is basically ripping those people off. Rowling never tried to sell a new Harry Potter book focused on Dumbledore purely on the basis that Dumbledore was gay and that the story of his sexuality "needed to be told".

You may be fine with it, and other people may be, too. You're welcome to your opinions. But for me? It only cements in my mind the fact that I shouldn't buy it, because it adds no appreciable sum to the actual story. If anything, it's a disappointment to me, because the story was just fine as it is and it didn't need to be tweaked with "equality" bits being added like a checklist just to impress people.

I don't mind having gay characters in a game. But I despise when sexuality (be it gay or straight) is added to a game that didn't need it in the first place.

That just comes off as odd. The DLC is in no way about her sexuality, it's not really addressed besides a kiss to the mouth. It literally would've made no difference if Riley was a boy. Instead, it just comes off as a puppy love story riddled with inevitable doom. It's like going to see Romeo and Juliet nowadays. But even with that said, it's just weird that you would despise people who add diversity for diversity's sake to appeal to an audience that is usually never thrown a bone. It just comes off as really strange to despise something with only good intentions and could only possibly have a good outcome, but that's just the way I see it.

 

[VikingKing]

I had no interest in playing the DLC so I just watched the scene on YouTube.

You folks sure you aren't Naughty Dogs marketing department? Because once again Last of Us was hyped up and could not deliver.

Or maybe it's because the vague promise of racy material is exactly what gets a video game all the free publicity it needs to sell much more than it would on it's own merits?

Anyhow, I'm calling Fox News proclaiming this as a sign that video games push the gay liberal agenda on our kids and want to ruin traditional marriage.

 

[The Crispy Tiger]

I had no interest in playing the DLC so I just watched the scene on YouTube.

You folks sure you aren't Naughty Dogs marketing department? Because once again Last of Us was hyped up and could not deliver.

Or maybe it's because the vague promise of racy material is exactly what gets a video game all the free publicity it needs to sell much more than it would on it's own merits?

Anyhow, I'm calling Fox News proclaiming this as a sign that video games push the gay liberal agenda on our kids and want to ruin traditional marriage.

Umm... You kinda the point the minute you watch the scene on Youtube. It's about the journey getting there more then the actual scene it's self. Also, Naughty Dog's marketing department would be run by a 15 year old. That would be really impressive...

 

[Schadrach]

To me, revealing Ellie as gay now seems pointless.

It's like when JK Rowling revealed Dumbledore was gay. It never had anything to do with their character in the source material, and it just feels like a retroactive cosmetic addition to win points with the LGBT-friendlies.

Neither Ellie nor Dumbledore ever needed to have their sexuality be a point of interest. Not for plot nor character reasons. And The Last of Us specifically already had a gay character who, in my opinion, was done very well without ever making a show of it. So why bother?

To me Dumbledore being gay effected the events that occured with him and Grindelwald. It becomes clearer that Albus harboured some feelings towards Grindelwald which enabled him to be further convinced into helping Grindelwald with his plans. Plus their falling out and all the other super (more) spoilery stuff that happens during and after that event.

What shocked me about the Dumbledore thing is that people act like it was some big, shocking reveal. Did people just not read book 7, or is a bit of subtlety that confusing?

 

[JupiterBase]

What i really want to know is how many of us discussing this really care? To me this is more important because of peoples reactions then what actually happened in the story. I like the story i stilldo because a character kissed another doesnt matter to me. I still like Ellie. Shes a sweetheart, and regardless of her orientation in the story it feels more like shes just desperate NOT TO LOSE ANYBODY ELSE.