Gay in The Last of Us: Left Behind (SPOILERS)
- Thread starter The Crispy Tiger
- Start date
I care because I thought it was a beautiful moment (the whole scene and the build up to it) and I truly saw the love that Ellie had for Riley, and vice versa. I can't say that I've seen the likes of that in a game before.JupiterBase said:
I'm sorry but I just have to ask, why does a character need a purpose to be gay?Kyber said:
Quite often the opposite is unfortunately true, in that most game protagonists are straight so that they will sell. On the description for Left Behind it is never said 'LOOK ELLIE KISSES A GIRL COME BUY THIS NOW'. It was a moment that simply added to her overall character, not made her defining trait that she was (possibly) a lesbian.
A person's sexual orientation does not define their entire existence or personality, and the same should be applicable to fictional characters.
It ultimately holds no significance to the main story line. I mean, in hindsight can you point to anywhere in the main game and say 'So that's why that is' or 'Oh, that's an interesting connection'? Even the time when you have Ellie examine Riley's pendant you never get any indication they were more than just good friends.The Crispy Tiger said:
Here's one way this DLC could've been effective; Make Riley gay and have Ellie feign romantic feelings for her, in a desperate attempt to tie Riley to her. This would've not only been more in character since Ellie is afraid of ending up alone, but also be a powerful reference to the main game when Joel manipulates Ellie. It could give the ending another layer; What she once did to Riley, Joel is now doing to her, whether she's aware of it or not.
I'm sure that's just a really freaky coincidence. Naughty Dog's thought process was likely "Hey, people liked how Bill was gay, why don't we do the same with Ellie?"CriticKitten said:
Except with Ellie they totally loused it up. Probably watched too much Fucking Amal.
Extremely small society where death is right around the corner? You make close friends in times like those.
In that universe, it would be extremely unfortunate for one of the few people with her... condition... to be gay. But beyond that, it would not strengthen or weaken her character. In this game, she was more of a daughter character than anything regarding a sexual being.
In that universe, it would be extremely unfortunate for one of the few people with her... condition... to be gay. But beyond that, it would not strengthen or weaken her character. In this game, she was more of a daughter character than anything regarding a sexual being.
I haven't played the game myself to be certain how true claims of her being gay are, but right now the reaction is rubbing me in the same way the new Tomb Raider did. I saw several claims of Lara being gay in that game because she cared about someone and went out of her way to save her, so sense Lara cared about a long term friend over the others she is gay, no they are just really good friends. Truthfully this has become a problem across entertainment as a whole as it seems that we have left a lot of room between just friends and romance unexplored as well as a lot of relationship types that go beyond romance.
Honestly at this point I feel like developers are using gay characters as a big sign to say "Hey look how progressive we are!" rather than because it actually fits in the story. I.e. rather than actually showing support & equality they are using homosexuality as a tool to promote their own image, which in the end just makes a mockery of it.
Well, if you look at Gone Home, that game wouldn't have gotten nearly as much attention if it would have been centered around a straight couple. I'm not saying it was a bad game, neither am I saying there's anything wrong with Ellie being gay, or any character for that matter, just pointing out that things that are still somewhat "controversial" are good selling points.DeadEyeDan said:
Fair enough.
This seems pretty interesting.
I don't have a PS3 so I've never checked out The Last Of Us, but I'd heard good things.
I'd be interested in seeing the development of the relationship between the characters.
And I notice people don't ask what straightness is `supposed to mean` when it's put in video games.
Seriously people, they do not need a purpose to exist as a person who is not straight.
Because people who are not straight exist, therefore it is perfectly logical to portray them in games.
I am quite tired today.
This seems pretty interesting.
I don't have a PS3 so I've never checked out The Last Of Us, but I'd heard good things.
I'd be interested in seeing the development of the relationship between the characters.
And I notice people don't ask what straightness is `supposed to mean` when it's put in video games.
Seriously people, they do not need a purpose to exist as a person who is not straight.
Because people who are not straight exist, therefore it is perfectly logical to portray them in games.
I am quite tired today.
The kiss scene doesn't automatically have to be a statement on Ellie?s sexuality. It was certainly an expression of intimacy, but as others have said, it didn't seem at all sexualized to me. Mixed feelings during adolescence aren't necessarily indicative of actual orientation, especially when considering the forced intimacy of a survival situation. I totally read this scene as just being about the fact that Ellie truly loves her friend. They are all that each other have? I?m not saying she?s NOT a lesbian, but I am saying that one scene with a kiss from 14 year old girl doesn't necessarily paint that picture.
This is what i like to hear appreciation for the story for the sake of enjoyment without adding on personal politics or preference. Its a good story about a girl named Ellie.
Apologies. My intent was more to highlight that one particular scene being the one most talked about, when it was a relatively minor thing in the face of these young people trying to survive in a world gone very wrong. Along with my feelings of dread from knowing individuals with political aspirations are probably going to use this in their campaigns as a Strawman.The Crispy Tiger said:
The point is that the kiss itself is minor. No different to me than a hug to another. Ellie's sexual preferences should not be the focus here. It's her maturity that's on display.
Finally got to the part in question and I think... I think the main problem a lot of people have with it isn't that it's a lesbian romance, but that it's a badly-written lesbian romance. I mean... the kiss does feel a liiitle tacked on, don't you think? It just sort of... happens, and that's it. It's like Ellie and Riley don't even acknowledge it. There's no questioning of what this means, of how that changes their relationship - it's almost like it WAS just a friendly, affectionate kiss between buddies rather than... you know, romantic. Neither of them do anything about it, and it's never brought up again. It hasn't got anything to do with their sexual orientation (Unless you're arguing that Naughty Dog threw it in to score points with the LGBT crowd) but with the fact that it's just... out of place and weird. Frankly, I'd still be calling bullshit if Riley were a guy, or if Ellie was. There was just no point in including any romance at all.
I don't know, this sort of feels like Gone Home all over again - the only reason people are making a big deal out of it is because they're lesbians. If it were a heterosexual romance, people probably would've called it bad writing and moved on. But because they're both girls, that's "homophobic." You can't criticize it because it's "progressive."
Which is partially why I hate debates like these. You're not allowed to dislike something like a lesbian romance without everyone getting on your ass for discrimination, regardless of whether or not your criticism has anything to do with that. Diversity is not a substitute for quality.
I don't know, this sort of feels like Gone Home all over again - the only reason people are making a big deal out of it is because they're lesbians. If it were a heterosexual romance, people probably would've called it bad writing and moved on. But because they're both girls, that's "homophobic." You can't criticize it because it's "progressive."
Which is partially why I hate debates like these. You're not allowed to dislike something like a lesbian romance without everyone getting on your ass for discrimination, regardless of whether or not your criticism has anything to do with that. Diversity is not a substitute for quality.
I see what you mean...Saetha said:
AND
I disagree, yeah just wanted to add suspense. I seriously didn't think it was tacked on. Maybe I'm just a sucker at this point. That's totally reasonable. But I thought it was cute.
Well, I mean, it can still be cute but be rather pointless from a narrative stand-point. It did have plenty of build-up (I've never fought with my best friend, so I don't know if such arguments bare similarity to lovers' quarrels, but I definitely got that feeling from some of their interactions) it just... didn't have any climax or resolution to me. It was just there.The Crispy Tiger said:
I dunno. Agree to disagree, I guess.
Ellie is one of the best characters I have ever seen in a video game and this DLC just added to my love for her. I mean, she starts off as a escort duty, blaw blaw, save the world, yaddy yaddy ... oh wait! She just saved my life ... twice in Pittsburg and she really can shoot. Well, all that time in military school was good for something. She throwing bricks and helping me with health packs and bullets. She jumps off a bridge, even though she can't swim, to save us both. Not exactly the smartest move but ... Then she save me again, holds her own against David and wants to pushes on to Salt Lake City, to find a cure ... then jumps on to a moving bus to save me again! Just a simple escort mission ...
The DLC does add light to her actions, her love for her best friend was hinted at in the main game except we didn't have the content to connect the dots. In Salt Lake City, after the giraffes, Joel told her that they didn't have to do this and they could go back to Tommy's. She said "After everything we been through, after everything I have done, it can't be for nothing." Now we know how much Riley meant to her it does add another layer to that statement. It is more then just any mission for her, it is a way to pay Riley back, to show her that she still loves her.
At the end when Joel lie to her, I think I know why she accepted the lie. Her mom's note said to fight for something, Joel kept going on about fighting for something ... Riley told her to fight for every second to be with those you love, to never let that go. Her mom is dead, Sam and Henry is dead, Tess is dead; her love is dead but Joel is alive so she listen to her heart and knows Riley is right, that is why she accepts the lie. Without the DLC, I figure she stayed with Joel because he was family and he did love her and protect her; I still think that but Riley just made that answer more concert.
I also think their were some hints in the main game, I always thought "Let's be all poetic and lose our minds together" was a really strange thing for Riley to say at the time. First time I heard that I thought, 'huh, sound like a Romeo and Juliet reference'. That and the fact she didn't freak out about Bill being gay was something as well. You think if she was straight, she would said something in the vain of him being really strange or something.
So Ellie being gay takes NOTHING away from her being the one of the greatest character in any game, if anything just adds to her awesome personality; just like if Riley had been a boy instead of a girl! The sex of the person you love does not defined you, you actions defined you.
The saddest moment in the game, she in the copper, clutching the med-kit and whispering how she wasn't going to let you go. ND, I am a truck driver, I shoot guns, I use to play football and weight lift away back in the day, I bit the heads off kittens in front of small children just so they go running away and crying ... How is it you can make me care so much for a character that I might have actually cried playing you game!
The DLC does add light to her actions, her love for her best friend was hinted at in the main game except we didn't have the content to connect the dots. In Salt Lake City, after the giraffes, Joel told her that they didn't have to do this and they could go back to Tommy's. She said "After everything we been through, after everything I have done, it can't be for nothing." Now we know how much Riley meant to her it does add another layer to that statement. It is more then just any mission for her, it is a way to pay Riley back, to show her that she still loves her.
At the end when Joel lie to her, I think I know why she accepted the lie. Her mom's note said to fight for something, Joel kept going on about fighting for something ... Riley told her to fight for every second to be with those you love, to never let that go. Her mom is dead, Sam and Henry is dead, Tess is dead; her love is dead but Joel is alive so she listen to her heart and knows Riley is right, that is why she accepts the lie. Without the DLC, I figure she stayed with Joel because he was family and he did love her and protect her; I still think that but Riley just made that answer more concert.
I also think their were some hints in the main game, I always thought "Let's be all poetic and lose our minds together" was a really strange thing for Riley to say at the time. First time I heard that I thought, 'huh, sound like a Romeo and Juliet reference'. That and the fact she didn't freak out about Bill being gay was something as well. You think if she was straight, she would said something in the vain of him being really strange or something.
So Ellie being gay takes NOTHING away from her being the one of the greatest character in any game, if anything just adds to her awesome personality; just like if Riley had been a boy instead of a girl! The sex of the person you love does not defined you, you actions defined you.
The saddest moment in the game, she in the copper, clutching the med-kit and whispering how she wasn't going to let you go. ND, I am a truck driver, I shoot guns, I use to play football and weight lift away back in the day, I bit the heads off kittens in front of small children just so they go running away and crying ... How is it you can make me care so much for a character that I might have actually cried playing you game!
