Yes, Randy. And some people are masochists. Like anybody who bought Duke Nukem Forever or Colonial Marines.
Gearbox CEO On Gamer Criticism: "Some People Are Sadists"
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
Yeah I prefer to think of Colonial Marines not as a beautiful sand castle but more of a washed up jellyfish that stung anyone who got too close.
You know what, he is never going to admit that Gearbox lied about the content of Aliens: Colonial Marines on a massive scale. Even though that the Better Business Bureau performed their own investigation and found that Colonial Marines was purposely misrepresented in it preview coverage and in it's advertising.
He will always claim that such games are of a really high quality and they did nothing wrong ever, that they are proud of these games even though the only reason they won the court case levied against them by consumers over Colonial Marines was because they claimed they outsourced the entire thing and were not involved in it's creation.
In his own mind, it is only the sales that matter and not less tangible things like Brand Presence. In his own mind, the sales justified the means. In his own mind, 3 Card Monte is entertainment and those victims that lose their money should be happy for the experience given.
Yet the industry continues to lament over used game sales on consoles, yet the title has to be returned to the retailer in order for that retailer to sell it used. That is a number that isn't reflected in sales figures posted by publishers and Steam didn't really allow refunds or returns of purchases when Colonial Marines was released.
It is very fitting that he points to a scam as a form of entertainment in his own defense. It is very amusing that he continues to hold up Aliens Colonial Marines as an honest product despite the outrage from reviewers, the very same people that played the game at their preview event and how that game was universally trashed by said critics.
Let's see how well the next game that gets their Colonial Marines treatment gets in a post Steam-Refunds world. It will be amusing to see their echo chamber collapse into a singularity from it when their precious sales are refunded for things like quality or misrepresentation that they cannot understand.
He will always claim that such games are of a really high quality and they did nothing wrong ever, that they are proud of these games even though the only reason they won the court case levied against them by consumers over Colonial Marines was because they claimed they outsourced the entire thing and were not involved in it's creation.
In his own mind, it is only the sales that matter and not less tangible things like Brand Presence. In his own mind, the sales justified the means. In his own mind, 3 Card Monte is entertainment and those victims that lose their money should be happy for the experience given.
Yet the industry continues to lament over used game sales on consoles, yet the title has to be returned to the retailer in order for that retailer to sell it used. That is a number that isn't reflected in sales figures posted by publishers and Steam didn't really allow refunds or returns of purchases when Colonial Marines was released.
It is very fitting that he points to a scam as a form of entertainment in his own defense. It is very amusing that he continues to hold up Aliens Colonial Marines as an honest product despite the outrage from reviewers, the very same people that played the game at their preview event and how that game was universally trashed by said critics.
Let's see how well the next game that gets their Colonial Marines treatment gets in a post Steam-Refunds world. It will be amusing to see their echo chamber collapse into a singularity from it when their precious sales are refunded for things like quality or misrepresentation that they cannot understand.
Based on past experiences as a cashier, I'll be the first to state that some people are straight-up psychopaths. That said, there's a difference between being an asshole for shits and giggles and legitimate complaints and criticisms. Treating the latter as the former is not only bad business, but disrespectful to boot.
You can't just handwave mountains of critical and popular panning as a harrassment ploy. And no, deliberately misleading and disappointing legions of fans is not something to be admired.
You can't just handwave mountains of critical and popular panning as a harrassment ploy. And no, deliberately misleading and disappointing legions of fans is not something to be admired.
Why am I reminded of this:
Gamers on Gearbox: Some people are incompetent.
Seriusly, last time Gearbox made something competent was their Half-life expansions over a decade ago. Is Borderlands really keeping them afloat so well?
Seriusly, last time Gearbox made something competent was their Half-life expansions over a decade ago. Is Borderlands really keeping them afloat so well?
More likely they just couldnt be arsed to program variuos checks and problems that would arise from being able to refund only in one region. imagine the amount of people falsely registering in that region just for that and the human resources needed to sort this mess out.Jake Martinez said:
That statement is still false, because in the case of Colonial Marines Gearbox DESERVES to be attacked for intentionally lieing, deceiving its costumers.chikusho said:
according to This article [http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6097] you should blame yourself for being held at a knife point.Merlark said:
Actually Steam was ordered by European Court of Justice to implement it for European users 3 years before Australian case, though it does seem like Australia was the one actually willing to go through with sanctions if they didnt while EU was just shaking its fist at the sky.Pinky said:
GG does not target gaming companies because GG is about Journalism and not game developement. Gearbox and other such companies are outside of GG scope. To blame them for not taking on Gearbox is like blaming a train company for not giving you a bus ride because "Both are transport".Dynast Brass said:
Wow. That is some really hardcore self delusion being practiced there.
I need me some stats.
Aliens: Colonial Marines, Metacritic score 45
Duke Nukem Forever 54
neither of these games averaged enough of a score with critics to even break into that 60-80 percentile that marks an average grade from mainstream critics. Hell, less than 50 in the mainstream critics book makes you lucky the fucking thing even loads, but then again, is having to actually play Colonial Marines luck?
This guy does not need to worry about me kicking his sandcastle down. he does the game development equivalent of dumping a truckload of sand (ie money) on the beach in a low rounded mound and calls that his sandcastle. I cannot insult, parody, tear down or belittle something that does all of these things to itself.
I sincerely hope that this level of self delusion is met in kind by his appearance that this conference under the heading "Fatally Unprofitable Hubris"
I need me some stats.
Aliens: Colonial Marines, Metacritic score 45
Duke Nukem Forever 54
neither of these games averaged enough of a score with critics to even break into that 60-80 percentile that marks an average grade from mainstream critics. Hell, less than 50 in the mainstream critics book makes you lucky the fucking thing even loads, but then again, is having to actually play Colonial Marines luck?
This guy does not need to worry about me kicking his sandcastle down. he does the game development equivalent of dumping a truckload of sand (ie money) on the beach in a low rounded mound and calls that his sandcastle. I cannot insult, parody, tear down or belittle something that does all of these things to itself.
I sincerely hope that this level of self delusion is met in kind by his appearance that this conference under the heading "Fatally Unprofitable Hubris"
Whatever.Dynast Brass said:
This is a case where Pitchford apparently thought he could use the old "entitled gamers" trick anew. Except he just pissed off every possible group of gamers around, because even the kindest people have a tolerance level for bullshit.
He should know that when you're in a hole, you should stop digging. And try making better games, maybe?
So what you're saying is basically that criticism can never be a viable option if you really don't like something? The only thing you can do when something is, like, totally bumming you out is to attack?Strazdas said:
Because that's what it sounds like to me. And if that's the case, you are basically making a pro-harassment argument. Which would be.. let's say.. unique!
No, i am saying that there are situations where attack is justified form of action. I never said that you cannot criticism it either. If it sounds like that to you i suggest you read my post again. Attacking Gearbox for its lieing and deception does not make you "That jerk kid at the beach who kicks over sandcastles".chikusho said:
Not sure where you see harassment here either. That would require, you know, people harassing people, when we arent even talking about people but about a company.
Attacking someone or something means trying to hurt or destroy it. People who get a rise out of hurting others or destroying things are sadists. For one, that makes the statement factually true. Secondly, the context provided in the quoted paragraph means that critique is a positive; pointing out flaws, errors and misconduct is a form of criticism.Strazdas said:
That leaves harassment, bullying, shit-talking, instigation and threats (among other similar things) as forms of attack. Neither of them are acceptable.
Look, Randy, if some of these posts ever reach you then I want to help you with this kind of stuff by getting you to think of this like I'm a major publisher. Trust me here, I have a lot of experience in software marketing to really tough demographics that spend millions of dollars on software and maintenance licenses instead of $60. You just lost yourself and another major publisher millions of dollars with a dud investment. I don't want you to dick around the issue like you didn't make any mistakes and would have done the same thing if given the same opportunity all over again. I want you to own the mistake and to say that you learned a ton from this debacle and will be able to smash it out of the park next time with the new found knowledge and wisdom. That your studio is clearly able to create epic games like Borderlands so this was an exception that you learned from and have been made stronger than ever by it.
That's how you do PR in a way that motivates publishers to invest in your studio and for gamers to get off your back as far as direct insults. Pretending like you didn't do anything wrong and like you STILL don't understand why it wasn't liked? That's going to result in a lack of confidence and an overall feeling that you can't be trusted. The Molyneaux effect, if you will. Please, consider hiring someone like me (really, anyone who has done a PR job right) as a PR consultant and you'll find a remarkably different landscape in the industry by following their advice. Spilling all about the project now was a good step but there was a lot of damage done by waiting too long on it. I get that you couldn't discuss things right away because the game was being sold and bad PR could product less revenue. But you've waited too long here and you could have sold it as a failed passion product a long time ago rather than just doing PR pickup at this stage to prepare for whatever games you want to put out next. When you don't talk, then you're the only person who isn't producing your own narrative. With a game panned this badly by large critics, you can't avoid to go silent or go false-PR preachy with it. You can still salvage things by being human and still expressing how excited you were to build all those places and to provide a sandbox where fans of the series can visit those places too. Pitch it more as movie tourism rather than an FPS and you'll land softer on your feet than you did.
"I read it in this way: we moved those people, we touched them - even the person who hates [your game] so much, you've affected them. That's why we fight, we're creating emotion and experience - and some people thrive on that type of feeling, some people are sadists."
The poor guy lost $10-15 million dollars of his own money on that project. There should be no way to think that the product was one that provided a meaningful emotional experience. Anger at the product's failure to provide a meaningful experience isn't itself a meaningful experience. I hope that article was somehow misleading in its quote of him. The guy was just pulling standard PR speak and maybe that's still what he thinks he's doing. But this is crossing the line if accurately cited into a territory of warping the world around one truth.
He can't just say, "Yeah... we dun messed up". He kinda tries to call it a "B-movie" and that's the closest he can do to admitting that its a flop but even B-Movies have their fans. I just saw "The History of Future Folk" last night. Clearly a B-movie that absolutely knocked it out of the park. B-movies are low budget. They aren't necessarily good or bad films. So it's a bad comparison unless he things the "B" stands for Bad instead of it just being a companion movie to the feature film which is where the b-roll name came from.
Yeah, the game was bad. Hopefully they embraced any constructive criticism they got and will use that in the future to rock new products in the way they rock Borderlands.
That's how you do PR in a way that motivates publishers to invest in your studio and for gamers to get off your back as far as direct insults. Pretending like you didn't do anything wrong and like you STILL don't understand why it wasn't liked? That's going to result in a lack of confidence and an overall feeling that you can't be trusted. The Molyneaux effect, if you will. Please, consider hiring someone like me (really, anyone who has done a PR job right) as a PR consultant and you'll find a remarkably different landscape in the industry by following their advice. Spilling all about the project now was a good step but there was a lot of damage done by waiting too long on it. I get that you couldn't discuss things right away because the game was being sold and bad PR could product less revenue. But you've waited too long here and you could have sold it as a failed passion product a long time ago rather than just doing PR pickup at this stage to prepare for whatever games you want to put out next. When you don't talk, then you're the only person who isn't producing your own narrative. With a game panned this badly by large critics, you can't avoid to go silent or go false-PR preachy with it. You can still salvage things by being human and still expressing how excited you were to build all those places and to provide a sandbox where fans of the series can visit those places too. Pitch it more as movie tourism rather than an FPS and you'll land softer on your feet than you did.
"I read it in this way: we moved those people, we touched them - even the person who hates [your game] so much, you've affected them. That's why we fight, we're creating emotion and experience - and some people thrive on that type of feeling, some people are sadists."
The poor guy lost $10-15 million dollars of his own money on that project. There should be no way to think that the product was one that provided a meaningful emotional experience. Anger at the product's failure to provide a meaningful experience isn't itself a meaningful experience. I hope that article was somehow misleading in its quote of him. The guy was just pulling standard PR speak and maybe that's still what he thinks he's doing. But this is crossing the line if accurately cited into a territory of warping the world around one truth.
He can't just say, "Yeah... we dun messed up". He kinda tries to call it a "B-movie" and that's the closest he can do to admitting that its a flop but even B-Movies have their fans. I just saw "The History of Future Folk" last night. Clearly a B-movie that absolutely knocked it out of the park. B-movies are low budget. They aren't necessarily good or bad films. So it's a bad comparison unless he things the "B" stands for Bad instead of it just being a companion movie to the feature film which is where the b-roll name came from.
Yeah, the game was bad. Hopefully they embraced any constructive criticism they got and will use that in the future to rock new products in the way they rock Borderlands.
There is also that kid who never acknowledges his faults, grows into an adult and gets to run a game development company...
Well it is actually a good thing he voices his though process like this, makes it clear what sort of mindset is in charge of their projects and what to expect from them, or more importantly what not to expect.
Well it is actually a good thing he voices his though process like this, makes it clear what sort of mindset is in charge of their projects and what to expect from them, or more importantly what not to expect.
Yes, in this case trying to hurt company in retaliation of the company doing anti-consumer practices as a detriment, very much the same way court fines work to hurt false claimants as a detrimant against false claims.chikusho said:
Hurting somone does not necessitate sadism. Not sure why you want people to get a rise out of it either.
I never denied that critique is positive, merely stated that attacks can be positive in certain circumstances too.
Basically the demo shown was not representative of the final product, there's a couple side-by-side screenshots of the same places shown in the demo with the actual game, basically the product looked like it was made fifteen years before it was released while the demo looked absolutely amazing(I'm talking the difference between toddler stick figures and professional artists), add onto that that it appeared money was funneled to BL2 instead despite what was being told, Alien AI being a joke, with Michigan J. Xeno-Frog being the most famous example, the outright removal of characters from multiplayer that were promised, and a plethora of aged game mechanics.talker said:
It was just not a good game, even worse it was hyped to hell and back by Pitchford and said it was going to be the quintessential Alien game. About the only thing good about the game was the gun sound effects.
To be perfectly honest, I don't give a flying fuck what Pitchford thinks. I got fucked real hard after pre-ordering Aliens: Colonial Marines. You monkeys used fake footage at E3 to make that piece of garbage look good and now you're acting liking the goddamn victim. You can take your bullshit shove it right back up your ass. Get fucked you cockgoblin.