Gearbox: Industry "Bullies" Should "Move the F*ck Aside"

JeanLuc761

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Daystar Clarion said:
Oh noes! America might end up having the same system that Europe has in regards to selling vidogames to minors!

Holy Cthulu zombie balls!

[sub]Seriously, it's not even that big a deal...[/sub]
It's a huge deal because that's not really the issue at hand here.

What California has to prove to the supreme court is that video games are not a valid art medium, that they have no artistic, historical or scientific value to society, and that they are provably dangerous to minors.

It's not about keeping the game out of the hands of minors, it's gaming as a valid medium that we're talking about here. They're essentially equating violent video games with pornography, and attempting to strip the medium of all first amendment rights.
 

Numachuka

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What I don't understand is why they are trying to say that it isn't a valid art form. Sure it has violence and things like that, but so do movies, books and heck even poetry has it. The bible has a ton of stuff in it that would stop a game getting sold, yet that is still available to anyone at any age. The only possible reason is that the last generation doesn't like them because they are new. Hopefully, in the unlikely even that this law passes, the next generation that grew up with games and realise that they are not bad will get rid of it.
 

Jaranja

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BenzSmoke said:
He makes a good point. Though the swearing is a bit unnecessary.
Really? I think they're warranted. I mean, it's obvious that he feels quite strongly about this and he's angry about it. Isn't being angry the cause for someone to swear?
 

Larsirius

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I guess in regards to legislators, we have to possiblities; that people fear what they don't understand, or that you can't argue with the ignorant. Or a little bit of both.
 

ben117

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If there is a law that has to be passed it would be to ban people buying games that are unsuitable for thier kids, I work in game only to have time and time again to have twelve year olds get thier perants to buy gta or mw2. Even though we explain the content may be inapropriate they still go ahead and buy it, this looks bad on the retailers point of view as we are helping the customer jump a loophole in the ratings system which we have no powere to stop as we canot stop the sale of said game even if we blatently know it is for a child. Anyway who likes the sound of a twelve year old bk spamming our headsets every five minutes.
 

Mr. Grey

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Aug 31, 2009
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It's election year.

Are you kidding me? They always start this crap up to make themselves "relevant" to the voters. If they're victorious, that's just another bonus. Considering that everyone seems to hate the incumbents this year, what with their massive incompetency spanning two administrations I can see why they're starting this up again. They need to make themselves look like the underdog and the good guy when in actuality they're probably snorting coke and laughing their asses off. Oh, and there's probably a dead hooker in the trunk.

Does that excuse their actions? No, but they're just playing the field. Even if they have to take on the role of the bully.
 

Prof. Monkeypox

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I'd like to think this will be the last big battle we have to win before this problem goes away for ever. I know that's not true, but I like to hope.
 

GamingAwesome1

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Gearbox, please don't back down and censor Duke Nukem. Show that you have some goddamn balls to show that the industry will not be bullied into changing so that people who don't care about or play videogames won't be offended.

EA dropped the ball with Medal of Honour. Don't drop it too. You saw how Jack Thompson tried to claim the MoH victory all to himself. Don't give more ammo to any "bullies" as you so rightfully put it.
 

Doug

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Prof. Monkeypox said:
I'd like to think this will be the last big battle we have to win before this problem goes away for ever. I know that's not true, but I like to hope.
At the very least, if this battle is won by us, it'll make it alot harder for the next batch of laws like this to even get off the ground, as presidence will have been set against them, making it an uphill fight. That said, the same is true if we lose - it'll be much harder for us to stop these laws as the presidence will be against us.

Or rather, US gamers, but if it happens in the US, where one of the largest game markets is, its going to have a major affect on us here in the UK.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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JeanLuc761 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Oh noes! America might end up having the same system that Europe has in regards to selling vidogames to minors!

Holy Cthulu zombie balls!

[sub]Seriously, it's not even that big a deal...[/sub]
It's a huge deal because that's not really the issue at hand here.

What California has to prove to the supreme court is that video games are not a valid art medium, that they have no artistic, historical or scientific value to society, and that they are provably dangerous to minors.

It's not about keeping the game out of the hands of minors, it's gaming as a valid medium that we're talking about here. They're essentially equating violent video games with pornography, and attempting to strip the medium of all first amendment rights.
Well not really, considering that the same rule applies to movies too, which are already a recognised art medium. The fact that games can be art isn't the issue, the selling of inappropriate material to minors is.
 

JeanLuc761

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Daystar Clarion said:
Well not really, considering that the same rule applies to movies too, which are already a recognised art medium. The fact that games can be art isn't the issue, the selling of inappropriate material to minors is.
Not quite sure what you mean. The movie industry here is self-regulated as well, and they actually have a lower success rate than the ESRB.

To quote an earlier article from the Escapist:
An amicus brief [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amicus_brief] was filed yesterday by the Attorneys General of Connecticut, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Texas, and Virginia, claiming that the states are "vitally interested in protecting the welfare of children and in helping parents raise them" but that the decisions by various appeals courts to strike down laws like the California's "unreasonably restricts their authority to do that."
That alone is horrifying in my eyes, because I'm adamant that the government should NEVER do the parent's job. If parents want to keep games out of minors hands, then they need to pay more attention themselves.

Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal issued a press release explaining his decision to become involved in the case, saying that parents "need and deserve help" to protect their children from "digital danger."
Once again, just MASSIVE amounts of BS going on here. Parent's don't need the help, they simply need to start paying attention!

Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal issued a press release explaining his decision to become involved in the case, saying that parents "need and deserve help" to protect their children from "digital danger."

"The videogame industry should act responsibly - play nice, not nasty - and agree to sensible self-imposed restrictions that block children from buying the most violent games," Blumenthal said. "I am calling on the videogame industry to follow the leadership of the motion picture industry, which sensibly stops unattended children from viewing violent or graphic movies."

Blumenthal's statement clearly overlooks the existence of the higher rate of enforcement [http://www.esrb.org] than movies. In other words, the videogame industry is already doing what Blumenthal wants, better than he wants it done.
This one honestly speaks for itself.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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JeanLuc761 said:
It looks scary on paper but the control is still very much in the parent's hands. When I was younger, if there was a game I wanted to buy but couldn't beacause of my age, I would just my mum to get it for me. She understands that I know that video games =/= real life. Even though a retailer may be prohibited from selling mature games to children, the parent can still buy it for them.
 

JeanLuc761

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Daystar Clarion said:
It looks scary on paper but the control is still very much in the parent's hands. When I was younger, if there was a game I wanted to buy but couldn't beacause of my age, I would just my mum to get it for me. She understands that I know that video games =/= real life. Even though a retailer may be prohibited from selling mature games to children, the parent can still buy it for them.
Which is fine; I've got nothing against keeping mature rated video games out of the hands of minors who don't have their parents permission. What I'm saying is that it's not, nor should it ever be the government's responsibility to do that. The ESRB is the most successful ratings system with the highest rate of deterrence, yet Blumenthal is overlooking its very existence.

Couple that with what I said earlier about California having to prove that video games should be on the level with pornography, and we've got a serious problem here.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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JeanLuc761 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
It looks scary on paper but the control is still very much in the parent's hands. When I was younger, if there was a game I wanted to buy but couldn't beacause of my age, I would just my mum to get it for me. She understands that I know that video games =/= real life. Even though a retailer may be prohibited from selling mature games to children, the parent can still buy it for them.
Which is fine; I've got nothing against keeping mature rated video games out of the hands of minors who don't have their parents permission. What I'm saying is that it's not, nor should it ever be the government's responsibility to do that. The ESRB is the most successful ratings system with the highest rate of deterrence, yet Blumenthal is overlooking its very existence.

Couple that with what I said earlier about California having to prove that video games should be on the level with pornography, and we've got a serious problem here.
Hmm, you may have a point.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Tom Goldman said:
I, like Pitchford, find myself wondering when these government "bullies" will grow a brain, for lack of a better term, or just go away.
That's, unfortunately, their job.

The majority complain to the Government because they believe they're entitled.
The Government stamps on a minority to appease them.
The minority riles against the Government.
The majority overrule their concern.

It's a case of people demanding "RIGHTS" and not taking responsibility for their own actions.

The terrifying thing about the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory - is that you don't need the Internet - just any crowd to hide your identity in.

I think we could quite easily "prove" that watching football (Whether soccer or gridiron) increases violent behaviour, causes injuries, provides bad role models and damages people's lives.

But is it going to be investigated? Or course not.

Video games though? Oh well, only bad people play those. And you'll notice that most of those people will be sending out those emails and then going back to their game of Solitaire behind their email client - or Farmville.

Video games problem is that it tackles some issues that others don't want to deal with - so they need the Government to stop them.

TL;DR - The Government is only enforcing what the majority cry out for - after they've been told what they need to cry out for.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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JeanLuc761 said:
Couple that with what I said earlier about California having to prove that video games should be on the level with pornography, and we've got a serious problem here.
It's actually worse than that. Pornography is given some free rein, due to it's "need".

Games would be treated as worse - worse even than cigarettes.
 

TheDoctor455

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Does anyone else get the impression that some people deliberately look for things that they will find offensive? Just so that they CAN start this kind of shit.
 

Arcanist

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Daystar Clarion said:
Well not really, considering that the same rule applies to movies too,
Bullshit. The government regulates 'obscene materials', which is not restricted to any one medium. Whether it be a porno or a copy of Playboy, the government regulates media that fails the Miller test, I.E. media that is considered 'obscene and containing no redeeming social, literary, scientific, or artistic value.' The effect of this law would be to strip games of their legitimacy as an art form.

In effect, if Californa's law is upheld, it would be illegal to sell a minor a copy of BioShock but legal to sell them a copy of The Godfather.
 

Therumancer

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The way I see things is that video games are the current political boogieman. The problems in society are not easily solved, and solving a lot of big problems like the level of crime and the like involve questioning a lot of the central morality on which our system is based. Those kinds of issues are things that a politician can't address without turning a lot of hands against them by their very nature. On the other hand acting like comic books, video games, or Rock N' Roll are a substantial contributing factor it gives them something to attack that doesn't involve having to address the big issues.

Obama and Clinton both used the video game industry as big ways of generating hype without having to go after anything anything paticularly touchy. Hillary was a major force in the whole "Hot Coffee" thing, and Obama uses video games as a whipping boy for things like the obseity epidemic. With the democratic party forced to close ranks around these ideas, combined with the conservatives who ALSO support this kind of thing, we're seeing an unprecedented amount of pressure being directed at what has always been a faux threat.

The Supreme Court is a political entity like any other, despite how things might seem on paper. This is not the kind of thing they are going to ignore. What's more I have no doubts that a lot of the Justices see a lot of political power/favor or just plain out money to be gained through this confict as we're dealing with politicians and PACs on one side and multi-billion dollar industries on the other. I for one do not have complete faith in the fact that something that SHOULD be an open and shut case actually turning out that way.

-

I've said all that before, but for those who are actually reading this here is something that I haven't said before:

This entire conflict gets to the root of one of the problems with our entire system. The fact that an issue cannot be put to bed permanantly after a desician. Even when something goes to The Supreme Court, nothing prevents people from keeping the same issue alive, working around the edges, and trying to garner the support to bring the case above the Supreme Court AGAIN, perhaps with differant justices.

You see this mostly with civil liberties issues, like gay rights, minority rights, and other things. Just because something is short down (and these things have been) doesn't prevent the people from immediatly getting up and trying again until they succeed. Our system basically rewards persistance.

A lot of people will point to that as a good thing, which I suppose it is when you agree with the issues at stake. However with this type of case... video games and goverment censorship, the same exact thing can happen where the issue is kept alive, for decades if need be until whatever is being campaigned for succeeds. What is considered unthinkable now might not be in a matter of years. There are a number of social movements, including things like NAMBLA that seem to be based around this basic idea.

It's an issue that goes both ways, and one of the reasons why we really don't have a mechanism that will genuinely put an issue down for good, however it is something to consider. Just as people crusading for civil liberties of whatever sort can be persistant,
so can those who are looking to take them away.
 

Atmos Duality

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We are all nothing more than the means to an end for some politician's career.
That's all this is going to amount to either way.

Doesn't it feel great when these assholes discard all sense of ethics and necessity just to further themselves?