Geek Definition: A Hypothesis

[Xanadu84]

Ive never made a thread before, as I wanted to start out with a good one. I realized that this one might have promise.

Me and a few friends in College got into a conversation about the word Geek. Essentially, we realized that games are generally associated with being a geek, however there was a host of other things that get added to the mix as well. Computer knowledge, general bookish intelligence, and there are even band geeks, music geeks, theater geeks, etc. We spent a while trying to figure out the overarching theme to all these varieties of geeks. What we came up with is this.

Firstly, humans understand there world through metaphors. Not the literary device, but rather the idea that one thing, concept or idea can represent another thing, concept or idea, and this acts as an aid to understanding. ("Metaphors We Live By" by Lakoff and Johnson goes into great detail about this, if this idea sounds like your cup of tea). The chief characteristic of a Geek is that they focus on an understanding and interaction with these metaphors, created by peoples intellect, above understanding of the thing itself. Essentially, a geek focuses on rules and systems that represent a thing, rather then the thing itself. We found that this hypothesis explained a lot about peoples use of the word Geek. For example...

A person who is very bookish, and gets straight A's, is a Geek because they understand the systems of rules that they teach in school. Math, Science, and Computer related things are perhaps the Geekiest of all because they consist entirely of rules that people have applied to reality, as a metaphor to aid in understanding. A class like Shop class involves learning how to make or do a physical thing itself.

A Sports fan cheers for there team, or plays the sport, and knows how to do the sport itself. A Sports Geek, however, memorizes statistics and data that we apply to sports as an aid to understanding.

A Music fan loves and listens to music itself, owns the music itself, or can play the music itself. A music geek understands the classification of the music, and all the other data that we use as a way of understanding music as a whole.

Anime is usually considered Geeky. Possibly because anime uses picture, created by people, to represent real events, as opposed to useing real life itself?

Fantasy and Science Fiction are the Geeky genres. The biggest characteristic of Fantasy and Science Fiction is that it uses fictional worlds as a metaphor to reflect reality.

Gaming is generally the biggest sign of being a dork. What in a humans life is more exemplary of useing rules and metaphors more then understanding a thing itself then in a game?

So what do people think. Are we right? Do we have a good start to an overarching theory? Is there a glaring flaw? Or have I failed in makeing my (admittedly murky) hypothesis clear?

 

[Mychas]

Maybe geeks/nerds are a culture. Consisting of many sub-cultures.(gamers,hackers etc)

 

[DalekJaas]

I think your thread gets geeks and nerds confused and put together. Here is how i would define them:

Geek = someone who is obsessed a particular type of activity and not generally considered to be cool and rarely popular

Nerd = gamer

 

[New Troll]

Nerds are smart, geeks are knowledgeable.

 

[Lios]

I think your thread gets geeks and nerds confused and put together. Here is how i would define them:

Geek = someone who is obsessed a particular type of activity and not generally considered to be cool and rarely popular

Nerd = gamer

You've gotten that quite backwards. Not all gamers are nerds, and not all nerds are gamers.

In fact I've yet to meet an actual nerdy gamer.

 

[Xanadu84]

Alright, so I'm pretty sure that everyone has a different definition of Geek, Nerd, and Dork. And no one is going to be able to agree on what the difference between the 3 are. I'm reminded of the epic battle I used to have over the debate over whether that kind of ice cream you get in the summer that's not as hard as normal ice cream is called a Creemee, or a Soft Serve. (I probably just derailed my own thread, but whatever.) Anyways, what I'm saying is that regardless of whether you call it Nerd, Dork, or Geek, or where you place the distinction, they all contain a common theme, a thread that ties them all together at its base. My hypothesis is an attempt to theorize what that thread is.

 

[Agayek]

Alright, so I'm pretty sure that everyone has a different definition of Geek, Nerd, and Dork. And no one is going to be able to agree on what the difference between the 3 are. I'm reminded of the epic battle I used to have over the debate over whether that kind of ice cream you get in the summer that's not as hard as normal ice cream is called a Creemee, or a Soft Serve. (I probably just derailed my own thread, but whatever.) Anyways, what I'm saying is that regardless of whether you call it Nerd, Dork, or Geek, or where you place the distinction, they all contain a common theme, a thread that ties them all together at its base. My hypothesis is an attempt to theorize what that thread is.

It looked like this didn't it: http://uploads.ungrounded.net/285000/285267_ultimateshowdown.swf

 

[Smiles]

A geek is someone who bites the heads off chickens at carnivals, and a Dork is a whale penis...

 

[Lukeje]

1. slang (chiefly U.S.). a. orig. Eng. regional (north.). A person, a fellow, esp. one who is regarded as foolish, offensive, worthless, etc.

b. Freq. depreciative. An overly diligent, unsociable student; any unsociable person obsessively devoted to a particular pursuit (usually specified in a preceding attrib. noun). Cf. NERD n.

c. spec. A person who is extremely devoted to and knowledgeable about computers or related technology.
In this sense, esp. when as a self-designation, not necessarily depreciative.

2. U.S. slang. A performer at a carnival or circus whose show consists of bizarre or grotesque acts, such as biting the head off a live animal.

An insignificant, foolish, or socially inept person; a person who is boringly conventional or studious. Now also: spec. a person who pursues an unfashionable or highly technical interest with obsessive or exclusive dedication.

1. The penis.

2. A foolish or stupid person; also as a general term of contempt.

Also, apparently 'geek' can be used as a verb. How strange.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Geek, nerd, dork, it's all derogatory. My preferred title is overlord.

 

[WilliamWhite1]

I would agree with what you've said in this thread, but with the knowledge that you are using the word as synonymous with other words, such as fanatic. A sports fanatic also analyzes statistics, such as how quickly the top ten in tennis serve and how it effects overall game.

The question is: has your group developed a solid framework for criteria? Not that there is a criteria for fanatics, but I think criteria is a foolproof way of nailing your definition.

 

[uncle-ellis]

Maybe geeks/nerds are a culture. Consisting of many sub-cultures.(gamers,hackers etc)

Welcome to the escapist merry first post. (I've been doing this a lot)

 

[salbarragan]

You have a daunting task in front of you. You will have to define your terms. You can go the easy route and use geek/nerd/dork interchangeably. This will of course raise the ire of any and all those who might define themselves within those terms but for those not within the culture, that is probably how they perceive it. An alternative route would be to use those terms as a sort of marker to the extent that a person is into the specific culture IE Nerd is someone casual, Geek is more passionate (personally, I think dork is a derogatory term by those outside the culture). Doing this will allow you to have a framework from which to categorize and labels people's interest in any given topic. For example, someone who likes to play games with their friends and might have an impressive collection of games is a nerd. Someone who actually trains to compete in events or spends days in the rain waiting for a new game, is a geek.

Once you have defined your terms, than you can begin to study and label how people's interests affect their world view. These metaphors as you call them will probably be in several degrees of effect depending on a person's levels of interest in the medium they choose.

However, here is something for you to think about, at what level does the subculture stop being a subculture and become main stream? When I was a kid, video games where new and something that stayed in the realm of kids games. Now that I am older, games are still a part of my life and have widely become accepted as an acceptable medium to pass the time. This probably means that we as gamers can no longer call ourselves nerds because we (the societal we) are all gamers to some extent! The days of being called nerds because we game will soon come to an end. Therefore, in order to be a nerd, you will have to be at what used to be the geek level and the geek will have to go to new heights to separate himself from the nerd crowd.

PS I majored in Sociology in College. I love discussions like this.

 

[Xanadu84]

Alright, so I'm pretty sure that everyone has a different definition of Geek, Nerd, and Dork. And no one is going to be able to agree on what the difference between the 3 are. I'm reminded of the epic battle I used to have over the debate over whether that kind of ice cream you get in the summer that's not as hard as normal ice cream is called a Creemee, or a Soft Serve. (I probably just derailed my own thread, but whatever.) Anyways, what I'm saying is that regardless of whether you call it Nerd, Dork, or Geek, or where you place the distinction, they all contain a common theme, a thread that ties them all together at its base. My hypothesis is an attempt to theorize what that thread is.

It looked like this didn't it: http://uploads.ungrounded.net/285000/285267_ultimateshowdown.swf

In scope, yes, yes it did. Religion and Politics had nothing on the Soft Serve/Creemee debate. It actually topped Ninjas versus Pirates, if you can believe it.

1. slang (chiefly U.S.). a. orig. Eng. regional (north.). A person, a fellow, esp. one who is regarded as foolish, offensive, worthless, etc.

b. Freq. depreciative. An overly diligent, unsociable student; any unsociable person obsessively devoted to a particular pursuit (usually specified in a preceding attrib. noun). Cf. NERD n.

c. spec. A person who is extremely devoted to and knowledgeable about computers or related technology.
In this sense, esp. when as a self-designation, not necessarily depreciative.

2. U.S. slang. A performer at a carnival or circus whose show consists of bizarre or grotesque acts, such as biting the head off a live animal.

An insignificant, foolish, or socially inept person; a person who is boringly conventional or studious. Now also: spec. a person who pursues an unfashionable or highly technical interest with obsessive or exclusive dedication.

1. The penis.

2. A foolish or stupid person; also as a general term of contempt.

Also, apparently 'geek' can be used as a verb. How strange.

I think that the words Geek, Dork, and Nerd have evolved and mashed together, diverged and converged, and become a tangled gestalt well beyond dissecting. Legends, theory, and interpretation has made it so defining these words is somewhat akin to a Ink Blot test; there is no one right interpretation, much of your definition will come down to what mental baggage you bring with you. My attempt is not to untangle this mess, but rather to hypothesize the original set of heuristics that was eventually labeled with these three words. Given how interchangeable these words are between social groups, I think its fair to say they share a common source, and I am attempting to identify this source. From this point on, I will use the word, "Geek" as a shortcut for whatever word or combination of words you might use, and the common ground between them.

I think that any definition is going to be incomplete, as the definition is attempting to simplify a very large, emergent phenomena. I think that these definitions are either not relevant to the, "Geek" Demographic, and are either antiquated or tangential uses of the word, or are addressing emergent phenomena of the property of being a Geek, properties that are rapidly becoming absolete: For example, I know geeks who get bad grades, geeks who are not good with computers, as well as geeks who are not obsessive in any one interest, but rather are interested in a wide variety of things that are identified as geeky. I think deeper analysis is warranted.

You have a daunting task in front of you. You will have to define your terms. You can go the easy route and use geek/nerd/dork interchangeably. This will of course raise the ire of any and all those who might define themselves within those terms but for those not within the culture, that is probably how they perceive it. An alternative route would be to use those terms as a sort of marker to the extent that a person is into the specific culture IE Nerd is someone casual, Geek is more passionate (personally, I think dork is a derogatory term by those outside the culture). Doing this will allow you to have a framework from which to categorize and labels people's interest in any given topic. For example, someone who likes to play games with their friends and might have an impressive collection of games is a nerd. Someone who actually trains to compete in events or spends days in the rain waiting for a new game, is a geek.

Once you have defined your terms, than you can begin to study and label how people's interests affect their world view. These metaphors as you call them will probably be in several degrees of effect depending on a person's levels of interest in the medium they choose.

However, here is something for you to think about, at what level does the subculture stop being a subculture and become main stream? When I was a kid, video games where new and something that stayed in the realm of kids games. Now that I am older, games are still a part of my life and have widely become accepted as an acceptable medium to pass the time. This probably means that we as gamers can no longer call ourselves nerds because we (the societal we) are all gamers to some extent! The days of being called nerds because we game will soon come to an end. Therefore, in order to be a nerd, you will have to be at what used to be the geek level and the geek will have to go to new heights to separate himself from the nerd crowd.

PS I majored in Sociology in College. I love discussions like this.

I don't dare to separate those 3 words here. I think that it would be a daunting task to understand the associations and nuances of those words amongst one closed social group, much less the entire world. Though possible, it would not be reasonable. Instead, what I am addressing is that principle that has then had applied to it the words Geek, Nerd, and Dork. I will just refer to it as, "Geek" for simplicity. Separating the three into distinct categories based on the kind of metaphor would be interesting, but if I learned anything from the Creemee/Soft Serve battle its that people hold onto there definitions with a death grip, and there's no reasonable way to change there mind as the words themselves are all arbitrary sounds to begin with, so you can't argue one to be better then the other. The only way to change the paradigm in consensus, so...well, if we get there...with enough help and support, we could define the 3 words once and for all

As for culture, Id like to point something out: A culture, especially one that is not based on tribes or genetics, is formed due to a common interest or experience. So certainly Geek is a culture, but I think that my hypothesis is what brought about the culture in the first place. Saying that being a Geek is a product of a culture is not going down to the root of things.

The idea of being mainstream is an interesting one. Perhaps even telling of the Metaphor hypothesis itself. As something becomes mainstream, it starts to become a thing in and of itself: It is a product as solid and real as any plumbing or action could be, filled with marketability and brand name identification. As something becomes mainstream, it is less and less a representation of rules and principles that you appreciate on a metaphoric level, and more and more becomes just another piece of the world. Maybe this is why the hardcore gamers get upset as a product becomes popular, have reservations about ultra-realism and brown and grey war games, and long for the good old days of abstract, wildly imaginative games, as well as constantly strive and cheer for the idea of, "Innovation" to challenge that part of our brain that thinks outside the box

 

[Twilight_guy]

Um, Nerds are people who are smart and geeks are people who are involved with certain niche cultures (like video games, computers, D&D, etc.)
Geeks aren't necessary smart and thus nerds and nerds aren't necessarily geeks. The two just tend to coincide.
The stereotypical nerd gets straight A's while a stereotypical geek plays D&D and goes to Star Trek conventions(in costume).

 

[cleverlymadeup]

yeah i kinda thought that geeks were on the sideshow and had nothing to do with knowledge

 

[Flying-Emu]

Geek, nerd, dork, it's all derogatory. My preferred title is overlord.

Spawn more overlords.

The hypothesis is interesting, but I think we'd have to delve into the realm of etymology to really figure out where the word came from and its real meaning.

Oh, I sense a college thesis...

The stereotypical nerd gets straight A's while a stereotypical geek plays D&D and goes to Star Trek conventions(in costume).

In that case, riddle me this.

I play D&D at Star Trek conventions in costume. What does that make me?

 

[Birdehh]

My ex called me Geekface almost daily, so it's kinda lost it's meaning for me, it's just another one of those words that gets tossed around without a real meaning behind it..

 

[GodsOneMistake]

why must a gamer be a nerd. i mean don't like 90% of young people play games

 

[Xanadu84]

I think there's a threshold issue. Many activities are geeky. A person becomes seen as a geek once they participate in a certain amount of geeky activities. Activities are geeky, participation in these activities make a geek, and geeky activities share a common thread. And as I said, I'm tying geek, nerd, and dork into one concept, and calling it, "geek" for expediencies sake.