Geek Definition: A Hypothesis

[Martymer]

As I see it, the word "dork" is not related to either "geek" or "nerd". As its original meaning is "penis", it's simply an insult in same category as "asshole" or "****" -- an implication that someone "is" a "dirty" part of the human anatomy.

"Geek" and "nerd" were originally synomymous (and to many, they still are), and referred to a (typically) young person who placed social interaction at a lower priority than an activity that most young people would view as boring, such as studying or reading, or pointless, such as gaming (playing advanced games not specifically meant for kids, and for purposes other than gambling), sci-fi or fantasy literature (because it's not even set in the "real" world) or essentially anything related to computers (because in those days, computers were generally viewed as toys, only intended for this particular demographic, and without any useful applications). Physically demanding sports were not considered pointless for this purpose as the primitive instincts we stupid apes are cursed with say that athletes are physically impressive and healthy specimens, and therefore likely to provide viable offspring, resulting in athletes getting laid.

According to this definition, a geek/nerd is not by necessity intelligent, but successful students are often (but not always) intelligent, and because it can be reasoned that they are successful because they choose to study rather than socialize, they end up being considered geeks/nerds. This means that many geeks/nerds are intelligent, and intelligent individuals are often geeks/nerds, but being intelligent does not mean being a geek/nerd by definition, nor the other way around.

As time has passed, two things have happened. One is obvious: computers now have countless applications, and therefore computer skill no longer implies "geek-/nerdhood". The other, more of a personal opinion of mine, is that geeks/nerds have taken the label "nerd", originally a word with negative connotations, and made it their own. I'm a nerd, and fucking proud of it. Given the chance to (oh shit, this is gonna be bad...) "play" my life again, "as a new, custom-made character", I'd still choose to "play" a nerd (though there are other things I'd change, but who wouldn't?). The term "geek", however, is one I view entirely as an insult. Geeks, to me, are extreme. They are the "80s college movie" nerds. They are so nerdy, nerds consider it shameful to associate with them. I know geeks. Yeah, the "going to Star Trek conventions in costume" type. Now, they're not bad people, not at all. I enjoy our stupid and utterly pointless discussions, with topics like "Could the Enterprise D beat a Romulan Warbird in a one-on-one fight?" or "Which are the ultimate defenders of mankind: Blood Angels or Ultramarines? No, I don't mean whether you like red or blue the best! I mean, look at the background material!". It's just that when it all comes down to it, I don't give a fuck! They do, because to them, these things seem important enough to kill for. They are geeks. I'm a nerd.

I play D&D at Star Trek conventions in costume. What does that make me?

A virgin? ;-)

 

[Susano]

I use the word nerd to describe what you are calling a geek, I call a geek someone who has a physical apperance that is considered 'nerdy or geeky'

For me, the nerd is the personality, the geek is the appearance.

 

[ThreeWords]

Makes sense, but as others may have said, it don' account for their social standing. The word can sometimes be used just to mean 'outcast'

 

[AdmiralWolverineLightningbolt]

you're a geek simply for analysing it so much
it's like analysing why wanker is an insult

though you're not a very good geek since you spelt "their" wrong at the start of the 2nd paragraph

 

[Gilgamesh00]

Anime is usually considered Geeky. Possibly because anime uses picture, created by people, to represent real events, as opposed to useing real life itself?

Fantasy and Science Fiction are the Geeky genres. The biggest characteristic of Fantasy and Science Fiction is that it uses fictional worlds as a metaphor to reflect reality.

You said the same thing for both Anime and Fantasy/Sci-Fi. Why should they be separated ? That may look offensive to people who like anime.

Also, this:

Nerds are smart, geeks are knowledgeable.

That's how I differentiate them as well.

And also, 'dork' ? I'm not really familiar with that word, didn't know it's similar to 'geek' and 'nerd'.

((Yes, I like anime, as can obviously be noted by my comment but I try to be objective even about things I like and I say that was an objective comment.))

 

[Xanadu84]

Out of curiosity, does no one else agree that there's a connection between the labels, "Geek" "Nerd" and (Apperently to a lesser extent) "Dork"? Because although in my experience, Geek tends be a more cultural and genre related thing, and Nerd tends to focus more on a person who is knowledgeable in some abstract area, I think the very fact that the definitions are constantly intertwining amongst different social groups shows a common root to all these words and there connotations. Or do people think that the labels geek, nerd, and dork are completely unrelated?

As I see it, the word "dork" is not related to either "geek" or "nerd". As its original meaning is "penis", it's simply an insult in same category as "asshole" or "****" -- an implication that someone "is" a "dirty" part of the human anatomy.

"Geek" and "nerd" were originally synomymous (and to many, they still are), and referred to a (typically) young person who placed social interaction at a lower priority than an activity that most young people would view as boring, such as studying or reading, or pointless, such as gaming (playing advanced games not specifically meant for kids, and for purposes other than gambling), sci-fi or fantasy literature (because it's not even set in the "real" world) or essentially anything related to computers (because in those days, computers were generally viewed as toys, only intended for this particular demographic, and without any useful applications). Physically demanding sports were not considered pointless for this purpose as the primitive instincts we stupid apes are cursed with say that athletes are physically impressive and healthy specimens, and therefore likely to provide viable offspring, resulting in athletes getting laid.

According to this definition, a geek/nerd is not by necessity intelligent, but successful students are often (but not always) intelligent, and because it can be reasoned that they are successful because they choose to study rather than socialize, they end up being considered geeks/nerds. This means that many geeks/nerds are intelligent, and intelligent individuals are often geeks/nerds, but being intelligent does not mean being a geek/nerd by definition, nor the other way around.

As time has passed, two things have happened. One is obvious: computers now have countless applications, and therefore computer skill no longer implies "geek-/nerdhood". The other, more of a personal opinion of mine, is that geeks/nerds have taken the label "nerd", originally a word with negative connotations, and made it their own. I'm a nerd, and fucking proud of it. Given the chance to (oh shit, this is gonna be bad...) "play" my life again, "as a new, custom-made character", I'd still choose to "play" a nerd (though there are other things I'd change, but who wouldn't?). The term "geek", however, is one I view entirely as an insult. Geeks, to me, are extreme. They are the "80s college movie" nerds. They are so nerdy, nerds consider it shameful to associate with them. I know geeks. Yeah, the "going to Star Trek conventions in costume" type. Now, they're not bad people, not at all. I enjoy our stupid and utterly pointless discussions, with topics like "Could the Enterprise D beat a Romulan Warbird in a one-on-one fight?" or "Which are the ultimate defenders of mankind: Blood Angels or Ultramarines? No, I don't mean whether you like red or blue the best! I mean, look at the background material!". It's just that when it all comes down to it, I don't give a fuck! They do, because to them, these things seem important enough to kill for. They are geeks. I'm a nerd.

I play D&D at Star Trek conventions in costume. What does that make me?

A virgin? ;-)

I like the idea of, "Useless" here. I like it because I think I can steal that concept to shed a little more light on what I mean by Metaphor . I think that what you refer to as useless is not exactly useless, but rather something not directly applicable to reality. A game might be useless, but the kind of thinking you cultivate through the game may not be. One thing I might need to add is that, as a more extreme version of geek-ness, there is people who focus on the abstract and not directly applicable, at the expense of those things that have direct applications to life. For example, loving Star Trek is one level of geek-ness, learning Klingon at the expense of social interaction is another. The second forgoes the directly applicable in favor of the abstract. Personally, I would say that a Geek should be a person who appreciates the abstract, and a nerd is someone who appreciates the abstract in exclusion of the concrete....but your millage may vary.

Makes sense, but as others may have said, it don' account for their social standing. The word can sometimes be used just to mean 'outcast'

I'm not to concerned about social standing here. Yes, Geeks may tend to be social outcasts, but that is just a consequence of there interests, not the underlying root. A kid more interested in the abstract may be seen as not doing anything of value, and therefore be an outcast. Geek-ness brings about outcast, being an outcast doesn't make you a geek. There's plenty of outcasts who are not geeks, after all. I think that the word has just been associated so strongly with being an outcast, that it gets bastardized. It's like how Nazis were evil, and so in present day, Nazi still refers to the German political group, but can be used to describe anyone who is evil or fascist in slang. And no, there is no intended connection between geeks and Nazis here, its just an analogy.

you're a geek simply for analysing it so much
it's like analysing why wanker is an insult

though you're not a very good geek since you spelt "their" wrong at the start of the 2nd paragraph

Your a geek for being such a stickler for punctuation

Honestly, I think its the Psych degree that's talking here more then the geek.

Yeah, it's a bad habit. I know full well the difference between There, Their, and They're, I just...don't write like I do. I generally don't worry about it when I'm having a casual conversation on the internet, and don't see my grammar as obstructing anyone's understanding of what i'm saying.

Anime is usually considered Geeky. Possibly because anime uses picture, created by people, to represent real events, as opposed to useing real life itself?

Fantasy and Science Fiction are the Geeky genres. The biggest characteristic of Fantasy and Science Fiction is that it uses fictional worlds as a metaphor to reflect reality.

You said the same thing for both Anime and Fantasy/Sci-Fi. Why should they be separated ? That may look offensive to people who like anime.

Also, this:

Nerds are smart, geeks are knowledgeable.

That's how I differentiate them as well.

And also, 'dork' ? I'm not really familiar with that word, didn't know it's similar to 'geek' and 'nerd'.

((Yes, I like anime, as can obviously be noted by my comment but I try to be objective even about things I like and I say that was an objective comment.))

I think there's a difference between what I said for Sci Fi and Fantasy, and what I said for Anime. Anime is abstract and geeky based on its presentation and appearance, while Science Fiction is abstract and geeky due to its content. Of course, plenty of Anime is also abstract in content, and much of it is fantasy or science fiction. So there's plenty of Permutations, but at its root, all Anime is pictures made to represent something instead of a picture of the thing itself, so all anime is geeky for that reason. And all Sci Fi and Fantasy uses an abstraction to represent the real world, and it is all geeky for that reason. Im an anime fan too, I would not blanketly insult the genre.

 

[Martymer]

I like the idea of, "Useless" here. I like it because I think I can steal that concept to shed a little more light on what I mean by Metaphor . I think that what you refer to as useless is not exactly useless, but rather something not directly applicable to reality. A game might be useless, but the kind of thinking you cultivate through the game may not be. One thing I might need to add is that, as a more extreme version of geek-ness, there is people who focus on the abstract and not directly applicable, at the expense of those things that have direct applications to life. For example, loving Star Trek is one level of geek-ness, learning Klingon at the expense of social interaction is another. The second forgoes the directly applicable in favor of the abstract. Personally, I would say that a Geek should be a person who appreciates the abstract, and a nerd is someone who appreciates the abstract in exclusion of the concrete....but your millage may vary.

[snip]

... A kid more interested in the abstract may be seen as not doing anything of value, and therefore be an outcast. ...

Bingo. More or less.

But... regarding the extreme version you mentioned, learning Klingon at the expense of social interaction (at least if you're just a Trek fan, and not a linguist or something), is heading in the direction of Asperger syndrome. Obsession with something unusual, often without any practical application, coupled with a lack of interest in social interaction, is pretty much a textbook sign of AS (though it's not technically required in order to be diagnosed with it). True, one could easily say that all who have AS are nerds/geeks, but not the reverse. You need to put in a distinction between having an obsession and just having "strange" priorities (like thinking that studying Klingon is simply more fun than being social for its own sake).

I've often found that it's not that I lack interest in social interaction. I just don't choose to interact with others for its own sake. Right now, for example, I'm interacting with you because I find this conversation interesting. Not because I have a genuine interest in socializing with you (no offense...). I find it highly unlikely that when this conversation is over, I'll start asking where you are and what the weather is like over there, just because I want to keep socializing. It's like, yeah, I like driving, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna go driving even though I'm not actually going anywhere. The extreme version would be if I didn't participate in this conversation, but just lurked, as even though it peaked my interest, I wouldn't have an interest in interacting with you. I might have an interest in going somewhere, but I'd still stay at home, to avoid the boredom of driving.

 

[sauerkraus]

You sir, have opened my mind to a new and terribly interesting venue of thought. And for that I am eternally grateful.

 

[Name Not Found]

From some of the examples you provided, I think that the hyphothesis does have standing. Yet I think it only works when the activity is not considered geeky in general , such as sports,computers or music . Yet for things like anime it doesn't. Anime is consitered geeky because only a small group of people enjoy it and it seems childish. Anime is really just cartoons after all. The same thing can be said about gaming and fanasty/sci-fi. And comic books.

Yet I don't think gaming is viewed a geeky anymore. Or at least not as much as it once was. This is because more people are playing games and more mature games are being released. And more people know about them.

 

[Delicious]

I usually define a nerd as someone who struggles in social situations, or looks like someone who would struggle in a social situation.

Yeah.

 

[Xanadu84]

From some of the examples you provided, I think that the hyphothesis does have standing. Yet I think it only works when the activity is not considered geeky in general , such as sports,computers or music . Yet for things like anime it doesn't. Anime is consitered geeky because only a small group of people enjoy it and it seems childish. Anime is really just cartoons after all. The same thing can be said about gaming and fanasty/sci-fi. And comic books.

Yet I don't think gaming is viewed a geeky anymore. Or at least not as much as it once was. This is because more people are playing games and more mature games are being released. And more people know about them.

Well now, Anime is geeky because it is cartoony, right? Well what is a cartoon? It's an icon that represents a thing, not the thing itself. Scott McCloud goes into this in great detail in, "Understanding Comics", and I think it applies to anime as well as comics. Also, I think you can have a music Geek, sports geek, etc. Generally, there the people who know a bunch of abstract data about something, for instance a music geek listening to a song and identifying its genres, subgenres, etc. And with games, once a game starts to take on tangible benefits and applications, such as the billion dollar industry, technology, and social standing of video games, it becomes less geeky. And, a game becomes less geeky when it starts to become more of a simulation instead of an icon.

You sir, have opened my mind to a new and terribly interesting venue of thought. And for that I am eternally grateful.

Thank you, thats the best I could have hoped for.