Gender role double standards

[AgedGrunt]

I will say though that a male friend of mine belongs to a male only social group for men who are involved in early childhood education, a profession dominated by women. The group helps him share interests with other dudes who have the same interest and talk about issues that are only applicable to them such as a weird mistrust of male ECE workers from parents.

Again, while there are times when it makes sense, would you agree that everyone could benefit if the issues were more, for lack of a better term, accessible? Being a white male, my experience is that segregation has an alienating effect, in that it can leave the majority ignorant and naive toward minorities and how they are affected in daily life.

Using your example, changes in perception need to be made so that the industry can work to eliminate that gender bias. I definitely see the need for your friend's group and that it helps them navigate the challenge of gender bias, but a group like that seems limited to treating the symptoms of a big problem.

If we're going to work toward creating fair and equal professional environments, everyone needs to be involved and understand each other, and to a certain extent that means the majority needs to understand the minority better.

 

[AgedGrunt]

Yes, in a perfect world we would all respect each others viewpoints and listen with open caring hearts. This isn't always the case.

Most women will experience sexual harassment in the workplace at one time or another and as both you and me are white males, we really shouldn't have the say in the conversation.

Well I suppose most of how I feel is big picture social progress rather than trying to make "ideal" environments. In general I don't feel anyone should be excluded from conversation, at least at a higher level. If more men were explicitly subject to testimony from women who have been harassed, heard their stories and what it did to them, I think that's significant. Surely not advocating private information is released, but maybe we need to start having tough conversations with each other. Thanks for your input.

 

[The_Tron]

I accidentally forgot to type this in my last post but last time I checked on the thread about the creation of the group one of the original posters who said the creation of the group was sexist and exclusionary had mentioned how because of his comment he received a number of hateful messages calling him things like a misogynistic pig from the women within the group. This kind of backlash over pointing something out like that is one of the double standards I'm referring to.

Well since women never get any internet backlash for anything they say on the internet I'm sure your friend received a lot of rape threats as well.

Really? That's a pretty sick joke for a former HR rep. And that doesn't even relate, sure people of all gender, race and sexual orientation have received backlash on the internet if you want to be that general. But in a group of supposed professionals in the field, no nothing like that has happened before. If you're going to be an asshole like that and not even contribute something thought out, why are you even here?

 

[The_Tron]

I accidentally forgot to type this in my last post but last time I checked on the thread about the creation of the group one of the original posters who said the creation of the group was sexist and exclusionary had mentioned how because of his comment he received a number of hateful messages calling him things like a misogynistic pig from the women within the group. This kind of backlash over pointing something out like that is one of the double standards I'm referring to.

Well since women never get any internet backlash for anything they say on the internet I'm sure your friend received a lot of rape threats as well.

Really? That's a pretty sick joke for a former HR rep. And that doesn't even relate, sure people of all gender, race and sexual orientation have received backlash on the internet if you want to be that general. But in a group of supposed professionals in the field, no nothing like that has happened before. If you're going to be an asshole like that and not even contribute something thought out, why are you even here?

I don't know what you interpreted this as but here was the point.

These complaints of these double-standards you speak of are not really issues.

There's things you and I most likely will never have done to us. We don't really have to worry about sexual harassment or sexism in the workplace.

When we voice our concerns out "double-standards" online, we won't have a barrage of rape threats given to us. Hell, if we did get those we would not really worry about them because there's almost no chance we will suffer from the act of rape.
If you were really concerned with double-standards, real actual concerns that affect people, you would see just how much of the long end of the stick you have in almost every area.

No, your concern is with being excluded from something you don't even have an interest in joining and not lacking the ability to being able to exclude others, something you don't even want to do anyway.

You're being incredibly vague with your profession, I'm not complaining about that, you have the right to your privacy. However, I'm guessing it's not nursing or childhood education so anything else is an industry women had to fight to get in.

Get a grip on reality, see things from more than your own narrow perspective.

As someone who has been raped by a women and was unable to do anything about it. I would like to say you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. So just leave as all you are doing right now is being extremely offensive. You brought up industries where women had to fight just to get in, well that's all well and fine but because they had to fight just to get in these industries I'm supposed to suffer and not have the same rights as them because men before me were oppressive assholes. There's clearly a lot you aren't seeing here and maybe it's because you're in a very different part of the world or industry. Either way, yes sexism and sexual harassment can happen to anyone in the work force, Male or female, just because I am a male doesn't mean it can't happen to me, sure it's less likely depending on the field but it still can, the fact that you said "We don't really have to worry about sexual harassment or sexism in the workplace." is a really strong indicator that you are part of the problem.

 

[The_Tron]

My workplace personally I feel is fine, a relatively health mix of gender, race and ethnicities. This creation of this second group is offensive in because of the attitude presented by it's creator, acting as though it should have been fine knowing full well that it was excluding people based on gender. And the double standard present because of how this kind of activity not long ago was ground for serious punishment when perpetrated by males, now that it's the other way around it's just a "Meh" issue. These are what I find so offensive about it, yes, I don't want to join the second group as it provides no benefit over the original, it's merely a clone but gender exclusive. Had it at least been presented to discussing the gender related issues within the field I would have been fine with it, but as I said before the creator made the group just to exclude others and create a "girls club" version of what is supposed to be a professional group meant to help others do their job and be better qualified within the field.

Edit: Also the reaction towards the first person who pointed out the group was sexist and exclusive from the members of the second group was really ridiculous. I know that happened in the past but in the argument that ensued people cry about outgrowing the mistakes our society has made in the past and then attempt to recreate them in a slightly different manner.

 

[The_Tron]

Ok maybe you should go back and read the original post, I never said I was suffering in the workplace. I actually enjoy where I work, what I'm talking about refers to a group on facebook which extends beyond the borders of my workplace. Also about those advantages I feel only C is accurate for my field, as A there are a number of women that are in the higher levels of the profession. Hell the women who created the "Womens only" group on facebook that I referred to earlier is one of the highest levels attainable and she still did what she did and still believes she did nothing wrong. As for B because of the wide array of ethnicities (I can easily think of people from 4 different continents) our workplace is very diverse, as such are the personal lives and interests associated with them.

 

[The_Tron]

I'm supposed to suffer and not have the same rights as them because men before me were oppressive assholes.

Unfortunately, we still benefited from those oppressive assholes.

Again, other than "I can't do it" (which we established you don't even want to) you haven't explained how this affects you in any way whatsoever.

Well ya It's clear I don't want to make a clone of a group I'm already in with the added purpose to exclude people. Honestly I feel like you're not even reading my comments. Either that or just not comprehending it. And I'm really getting the impression that all you are trying to do is troll and I've had enough of your bullshit.