General Fallout 4 rant thread (Spoilers aplenty)

[WolfThomas]

That happens anyway as I discovered myself, even without the use of console commands. The Minuteman ending is the only ending that keeps everyone happy (except the Institute, obviously). I'm guessing Bethesda means for that to be the 'canon' ending, probably.

But you're right. About half-way through the Minuteman questline, the entire BoS questline fails. However (and this is unique to the Minutemen), this does NOT turn the BoS hostile like it does when working for any of the other factions.

I nailed down exactly what script is being fired. Normally, when you piss off the BoS, a script called "BoSKickOut" fires and auto-fails all their quests and turns them hostile. But when working with the Minutemen instead, a different script fires called "BoSKickOutSoft", which fails their quests but does NOT turn them hostile.

The beauty of "BoSKickOutSoft" is that you can still come and go from the Prydwen as you please. But you're right in that the script fires before you get promoted to Sentinel, effectively locking you out of that title (without the use of console commands, of course).

Thanks. Yes it is possible to finish with them and the Railroad not your enemy. But I want to be Sentinel as well, for the gear, prestige and my head-canon. Apparently by triggering the right quest stage of a quest line you can get Maxson to congratulate you for destroying the Institute, mildly reprimand you for using the Minutemen and still award you the Sentinel position. As in it seemlessly fits.

 

[IceForce]

Speaking of coming and going from the Prydwen... Have any of you tried using the Vertibird signal grenades to travel to the Prydwen?
Now, normally the Vertibird just drops you off somewhere vaguely around your selected fast travel target. So naturally, I assumed the same thing would happen with the Prydwen. I assumed it wouldn't be able to drop me off on the Prydwen flight deck, so it'd just drop me somewhere random on the ground below instead.

Well, my mind was fucking blown.

 

[IceForce]

Apparently by triggering the right quest stage of a quest line you can get Maxson to congratulate you for destroying the Institute, mildly reprimand you for using the Minutemen and still award you the Sentinel position. As in it seemlessly fits.

Huh, that's interesting. The fact that he has unique dialogue for that scenario implies that Bethesda originally intended on having that as a possible playable option.

I'll have to look further into this.

 

[WolfThomas]

Huh, that's interesting. The fact that he has unique dialogue for that scenario implies that Bethesda originally intended on having that as a possible playable option.

I'll have to look further into this.

I think as I said earlier the dialogue is to cover a situation where you join the BoS start their final missions (by killing the Railroad) but then complete the Minutemen ending (which is never unavailable). In that situation you still get to be Setinel, but the dialogue perfectly applies to an ending where you back the Minutemen and don't piss of the BoS.

But I haven't done it, just read about some people doing it on the internet.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/494631967663403869/

There's pictures in that thread.

 

[IceForce]

.

Ookay, so, this seems to be how it works: (for the benefit of anyone reading this)

- Complete the BoS questline up until 'Tactical Thinking' begins (the quest is instantly recognizable as soon as it pings because its icon features a power armored vault boy stomping on a Railroad lantern).
You're told to talk to Kells. DON'T do this (because it turns the Railroad hostile, and without warning, oddly).
As an aside, the Danse situation is resolved before 'Tactical Thinking', so you don't need to worry about him.

- If you're not already hostile towards the Institute, do something to make them hostile. Kill Father, or any of the department heads (that asshole Ayo is a good target for this). Other options are to tell Father to fuck off on first meeting him, or telling him to fuck off after the Battle of Bunker Hill. Going to Mass Fusion for the BoS will also make you hostile towards the Institute, but this is only possible AFTER 'Tactical Thinking', which we don't want to complete.
This step is necessary because you have to be hostile towards the Institute in order to progress with the Minutemen. (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Banished_from_the_Institute#Notes).

- If you've still got 'Underground Undercover' in your quest journal (for the Railroad), go talk to Desdemona. If not, you can skip this step.
She'll tell you to talk to Preston.

- Talk to Preston and do the Minutemen questline all the way to the end. At some point during this questline, the BoS questline will fail. (Specifically: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Defend_the_Castle#Notes). However not to worry, as I pointed out in a post above, this is a 'soft' questline fail, not a 'hostile' questline fail.

- Don't forget to issue the evacuation order on Father's terminal. Preston actually explicitly tells you to do this, and will give an objective in your journal about it.

- After the Institute goes boom, type the following into the command console:
setstage bos305 10
And you'll be directed to speak with Maxson, who'll congratulate you and give you your new rank of Sentinel.


Aaaand that's pretty much it.
Sheesh, and I thought the main faction questlines in FONV was a delicate juggling act. Still, in FO4 it seems a lot more complicated than it actually is.

 

[WolfThomas]

.

Cheers, thanks for exploring this. I'm on console so I'm going to have to wait until their promised Consoles mods enables this.

 

[IceForce]

There's actually a better way of doing the above, though. I mean, if you're going to use console commands anyway...

Step 1 is the same:

- Complete the BoS questline up until 'Tactical Thinking' begins (the quest is instantly recognizable as soon as it pings because its icon features a power armored vault boy stomping on a Railroad lantern).
You're told to talk to Kells. DON'T do this (because it turns the Railroad hostile, and without warning, oddly).

Instead of speaking with Kells, type this into the console:
setstage bos302b 255

What this does is it effectively skips the 'Tactical Thinking' quest altogether, and proceeds with the next quest (BoS's Mass Fusion quest). So the Railroad remains friendly.

Once the BoS's Mass Fusion quest begins, the Institute goes hostile automatically. But that's okay. Simply complete the game for the BoS in the normal way, and get your rank of Sentinel.

You end up staying on good terms with the Railroad, BoS, and Minutemen.

The beauty of doing it this way is that Liberty Prime is made active (instead of forever remaining on life support for the entire rest of the game, like if you do things the Minutemen way like in the post above). You also get to go to Mass Fusion, rather than missing out on it altogether.


Anyway, source for all this:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Tactical_Thinking#Notes

Alternatively, while the quest is active, one can use the command "setstage 00107a1c 255" to advance the quest to completion, without locking Kell's dialogue options into referencing this quest for the remainder of the game. His dialogue should return to normal, allowing the player to receive Leading by Example missions from him once more, without the need to become enemies with the Railroad. This method also has the seemingly added benefit of repairing Desdemona's end-game dialogue, even allowing the player to partake in To the Mattresses missions.

 

[IceForce]

.

Cheers, thanks for exploring this. I'm on console so I'm going to have to wait until their promised Consoles mods enables this.

Ah okay, I didn't realize you weren't on PC.

In any event, I always did find the BoS/Railroad conflict to be more than a little contrived. There's no real reason why those two factions should hate each other as much as they do. And one would think they'd at least be able to put their differences aside to face their common enemy.
In fact, the BoS are the instigators in that conflict. The Railroad were minding their own business and weren't interested in the BoS at all, up until the BoS raided their hideout, that is. (So imo the BoS kinda bring this on themselves; -- the Railroad covertly and clandestinely destroying the Prydwen, I mean.)

 

[WolfThomas]

Ah okay, I didn't realize you weren't on PC.

In any event, I always did find the BoS/Railroad conflict to be more than a little contrived. There's no real reason why those two factions should hate each other as much as they do. And one would think they'd at least be able to put their differences aside to face their common enemy.
In fact, the BoS are the instigators in that conflict. The Railroad were minding their own business and weren't interested in the BoS at all, up until the BoS raided their hideout, that is. (So imo the BoS kinda bring this on themselves; -- the Railroad covertly and clandestinely destroying the Prydwen, I mean.)

Yeah I opted for console as my PC is getting on in years. I regret it for the console commands. But given I'm getting married and sitting huge exams my Fallout playing time is going to be stretched across this year. I'm sure the "PC mods on xbox" mod will arrive and hopefully have an option there. Or they'll give us the console (despite them saying they won't) like they did on Skyrim.

I agree it's contrived that why I wanted a way out and might still choose the Minutemen over BoS, it's a neat way of you picking a third option and de-escalating the conflict. Another thing is this BoS or minutemen ending is better for the Railroad in some ways because Glory survives.

 

[wings012]

I sided with the Minutemen because I simply did not like the other factions.

The Brotherhood were kinda indoctrinated fascists and Maxson gave me a very bad vibe.

The Railroad kinda reminded me of... Greenpeace or PETA or something. They were too short sighted imo and pro synth to silly levels.

The Institute looked nice at first, but they were doing FEV under the hood. And there's the whole are Synths people angle as well. They are my second choice though. While they are dodgy in all sorts of ways, they are the closest thing to rebuilding and advancing humanity again.

Spoiler

Also you end up as their leader, so perhaps they can be steered in a better direction.

Story wise though, sticking with the Minutemen is really weak. As if the story wasn't even weak enough.

Spoiler

You're basically minding your own business when the Institute decides you are a threat and attacks the Castle. The Minutemen get riled up and you have no choice but to go in and wreck them. You can still be neutral with the other two factions. The Railroad is happy while the BoS grumble about having their glory taken away. I hear that if you piss the BoS off, the Minutemen can take out the Prydwen with Artillery which does sound awesome....

As for companions, I'm not too fussed. I think I like either Deacon or Hancock best as far as character goes, but they are all a pain in the arse as far as gameplay is concerned.

I never stuck to one weapon and used whatever I had ammo for upgraded up to the gills. Eventually using so many similar guns just seemed silly and I axed the lower tier ones and just sold their ammo to buy more expensive ammo! Some weapons did stand out however, such as the double shot legendary Combat Rifle which you could buy from Vault 81? I also found a legendary never ending plasma gun, which I turned into a plasma thrower. That wrecked everything in short order, though it was expensive to keep running. Not that it mattered, I cornered the Commonwealth's market in purified water.

As far as settlements went, I never really made a real home. I tried and built a big empty room hanging over Red Rocket and I had no idea what to do with it. And it looked silly, disembodied and floating with large sets of stairs leading up. I did keep my companions and Power Armours at Red Rocket so it is the closest thing to my home, but I definitely worked on other settlements more.

I mostly just built a 3x3 shack and filled it with beds. Slapped turrets on the roof and called it a day. Every now and then I'd have a crafting itch and maybe have two floors. Or I'd randomly put artillery on elevated platforms. But when all that was done, I'd make sure to have everybody busy farming tatoes, corn or mutfruit and have water purifiers and any patch of water possible. The real motivator for building ended up being adhesive farming and purified water for caps. I did try to have artillery coverage for most of the map but I seriously never needed an artillery strike for most part so it was mostly for lulz. And the double shot MIRV Fat Man was essentially an artillery strike without the smoke signals hassle.

 

[pequod]

I went with BoS. Kinda regret it.

Nick Valentine is the best character in the game but way too judgemental to be a regular companion. Danse is the best for combat support and it's easy to keep him happy.

Pimped out Combat Rifle or Combat Shotgun. Although since it's Fallout you gotta make use of all your ammo so I use a number of other guns too.

I had big plans to make Sanctuary amazing, but was disappointed by the lack of choices once I got into it. Still, I made an effort to make Sanctuary and the castle look decent.

 

[IceForce]

The Institute looked nice at first, but they were doing FEV under the hood. And there's the whole are Synths people angle as well. They are my second choice though. While they are dodgy in all sorts of ways, they are the closest thing to rebuilding and advancing humanity again.

Spoiler

Also you end up as their leader, so perhaps they can be steered in a better direction.

I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with the Institute.

I love what they've built, and the technology they've achieved. Hell, Institute tech rivals anything from the BoS (the Prydwen is cool and all, but it's *just* a mobile military base and not a lot else; and Liberty Prime isn't even originally a BoS creation, having originally been built pre-war for the Anchorage campaign), their tech also rivals anything from the Enclave, the NCR, or anyone else.
The Institute facility is not only awesome looking but it's also, essentially, a fully-functional and highly secure vault. And it's a hell of a lot better than any of the Vault-tec vaults.
They've managed to cultivate healthy plant life, and are fully self-sufficient. So it seems such a shame to destroy their entire base.
True, they messed about with the FEV thing, but they stopped that once they realized it was a mistake / waste of time.

Really, the only morally reprehensible thing the Institute is guilty of is the whole 'synth replacement' thing. I don't personally have any problem with synths being made to be their own people/entities, but replacing existing humans with synth imposters? Well, that's pretty deplorable, and can't really be justified in any way.

To make matters worse, we're not even told the reasons for the whole 'synth replacement' thing, -- it's never elaborated or expanded on.
I get the feeling that Bethesda wanted to make a really awesome and cool looking faction, but then decided to make them 'evil' in some way, so they shoe-horned in the synth replacement concept. Because the concept does come across as extremely half-baked.

 

[IceForce]

Danse is the best for combat support and it's easy to keep him happy.

I disagree. You basically have to be spouting BoS propaganda in order to keep him happy. Say anything nice about synths or (non-feral) ghouls, and he hates it.

He also hates the use of the Minutemen artillery, complaining that it gives the Minutemen too much firepower. (All the other companions love it.)

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

True, they messed about with the FEV thing, but they stopped that once they realized it was a mistake / waste of time.

You mean after their head researcher sabotaged the research data, infected himself and fled the Institute because he finally got the moral implications of abducting people and injecting them with a virus that, at best, turned them into monsters and at worst killed them in the most agonizing way possible?

Really, the only morally reprehensible thing the Institute is guilty of is the whole 'synth replacement' thing. I don't personally have any problem with synths being made to be their own people/entities, but replacing existing humans with synth imposters? Well, that's pretty deplorable, and can't really be justified in any way.

There's a conversation to be had with Father when he sort of justifies it with "we need to keep tabs on the surface and make sure they don't do stupid things". As I recall he also brings up the slaughter of the provisional commonwealth government in that conversation and explicitly says it had to be destroyed so it wouldn't interfere with the Institute's plans.

To make matters worse, we're not even told the reasons for the whole 'synth replacement' thing, -- it's never elaborated or expanded on.
I get the feeling that Bethesda wanted to make a really awesome and cool looking faction, but then decided to make them 'evil' in some way, so they shoe-horned in the synth replacement concept. Because the concept does come across as extremely half-baked.

My impression is that the Institute was designed by committee and the committee couldn't agree on what the Institute really is and the end result was that everyone sort of imagined their own vision and timeline for the Institute when writing their own questlines and characters for the Institute. That's how you can get the synth impostor thing that barely any one in the Institute mentions or the FEV that no one mentions. It is how you get a supposed resource and energy scarcity in the Institute, yet some dude who makes synthetic gorillas for fun and human looking, ultra advanced synths doing stuff that an antiquated Mr. Handy or Gen 1 synth would do equally well. It is how you get lines like "Synths are just advanced machines without emotions" and then get situations where synths clearly display strong emotions up to and including a fear of death.

It is sad, because the faction has potential that goes to waste in the weird, probably unintentional, ambiguity of what they really do and stand for.

 

[IceForce]

True, they messed about with the FEV thing, but they stopped that once they realized it was a mistake / waste of time.

You mean after their head researcher sabotaged the research data, infected himself and fled the Institute because he finally got the moral implications of abducting people and injecting them with a virus that, at best, turned them into monsters and at worst killed them in the most agonizing way possible?

Well okay, when you put it like that...

Still, even given that Father lied to everyone, at least he shut the project down and discontinued it, rather than simply carrying on with it using a different team of people.

My impression is that the Institute was designed by committee and the committee couldn't agree on what the Institute really is and the end result was that everyone sort of imagined their own vision and timeline for the Institute when writing their own questlines and characters for the Institute. That's how you can get the synth impostor thing that barely any one in the Institute mentions or the FEV that no one mentions. It is how you get a supposed resource and energy scarcity in the Institute, yet some dude who makes synthetic gorillas for fun and human looking, ultra advanced synths doing stuff that an antiquated Mr. Handy or Gen 1 synth would do equally well. It is how you get lines like "Synths are just advanced machines without emotions" and then get situations where synths clearly display strong emotions up to and including a fear of death.

The thing is, the Fallout games require a lotttt of suspension of disbelief. You're right that they claim to have an energy scarcity in the Institute (which is why the need a new reactor). So then why is it sooo bright inside nearly every room? It's blinding. And I seriously doubt they're using energy-saving lightbulbs.

Speaking of which (and this plays into my suspension-of-disbelief point also), why are the Institute still using old fashioned CRT green-screen terminals? You mean to tell me that no one there is smart enough to invent an LCD flat panel yet?
Sure, their terminals look a bit better than the surface ones, but it's still a basic text-based terminal.

It is sad, because the faction has potential that goes to waste in the weird, probably unintentional, ambiguity of what they really do and stand for.

I agree, yeah it's sad.

And it's not just the Institute; the Railroad are ambiguous too. They want to destroy the Institute and save the synths, but they also want to destroy the ONLY way the synths can 'reproduce' as well? Don't the synths have a say in this?
Do the 'freed' synths really want to be the last of their kind? Because that doesn't seem like something they'd go along with. And it's not like anyone else around has a synth production machine handy.

Sigh. I guess I can understand why so many players opted for the BoS. At least with them you know exactly where you stand. There's no ambiguity there at all.

 

[PinkiePyro]

first time fallout player I feel i should note this so people understand i know none of the previous games events/lore

-Which faction did you side with and why? I haven't picked a side yet but leaning toward the BoS or the minutemen, as the institute seems F***** up but I hestate to officially sign with BoS despite getting an offer as I like nick valentine so I am hesitant lest they are mean to him...
my dilemma on factions is the reason I came on this thread and I haven't found/blundered on The Railroad so if someone can give me the lowdown on who the hell they are it would be much appercated

Edit: after reading other posts I think I will stick with the minutemen they seem the only sane group


-Favorite companion? Most hated companion?
Nick and Dogmeat tie for favorite, least would be piper I find her annoying

-Favorite gun?
right now Righteous Authority because lasers! I also like pummeling people with a shock baton I got off a synth when I get bored of shooting things

-How involved were you with the settlement building process?
insanely involved...

I am currently 20 hours in and most of my time has been spent ether blundering around trying not to get mauled by things or doing those settlement quests

 

[sXeth]

It is sad, because the faction has potential that goes to waste in the weird, probably unintentional, ambiguity of what they really do and stand for.

I think it chalks up to a couple things. One being that Bethesda doesn't really put all-in on evil playthroughs. Even the Dark Brotherhood side-trees in Oblivion/Skyrim very noticeably put you up as the "villain fighting the even worse villain" in both cases. Fallout 3 had the option to join the bad guys, but it was basically a single binary option at the end that had little/no impact on the storyline.

Narrative vs Sandbox dissonance is probably the other main thing. Sandbox games with a narrative often render the behaviour or affiliations of their protagonists at odds with an overall story presentation. The more sandbox options there are, the more nebulous the storyline gets in terms of dealing with those options.

Really, it could've worked better with the BOS/Railroad/Minuteman (as the default generic option they are), and trying to incorporate some of the smaller groups (Forged, Triggermen, Atom Cars, Goodneighbour, Gunners, Covenant) in, then to try and make your villain into some sort of viable option, contradicting half your narrative in the process (or sweeping it aside as irrelevant).

 

[IceForce]

I haven't found/blundered on The Railroad so if someone can give me the lowdown on who the hell they are it would be much appercated

Personally, I rather liked the Railroad questline. But after having looked around various gaming forums, I was quite surprised to see a large number of people in the same boat as you. -- They had no idea who the Railroad is nor where they are, and some players don't find the Railroad until the point where you're told to go and destroy them by one of the other factions (yep, that late in the game).

I guess I put it down to the way they're kinda hidden and not mentioned a lot. (Whereas, the Prydwen can be seen from nearly everywhere on the entire map, and EVERYONE talks about the Institute. So the other factions don't have the same problem.)

Anyway, to answer your question, there are a couple of guys talking outside of Valentine's place in Diamond City when you first go there. Listen to their conversation and the first Railroad quest will ping in your journal automatically.
If you've already triggered this and didn't notice, then I'm told there's another conversation to be heard in Goodneighbor, which does the same thing.

 

[WolfThomas]

I haven't found/blundered on The Railroad so if someone can give me the lowdown on who the hell they are it would be much appercated

Personally, I rather liked the Railroad questline. But after having looked around various gaming forums, I was quite surprised to see a large number of people in the same boat as you. -- They had no idea who the Railroad is nor where they are, and some players don't find the Railroad until the point where you're told to go and destroy them by one of the other factions (yep, that late in the game).

I guess I put it down to the way they're kinda hidden and not mentioned a lot. (Whereas, the Prydwen can be seen from nearly everywhere on the entire map, and EVERYONE talks about the Institute. So the other factions don't have the same problem.)

Anyway, to answer your question, there are a couple of guys talking outside of Valentine's place in Diamond City when you first go there. Listen to their conversation and the first Railroad quest will ping in your journal automatically.
If you've already triggered this and didn't notice, then I'm told there's another conversation to be heard in Goodneighbor, which does the same thing.

Piper will ping the quest too in conversation with Nick Valentine. I think before Dangerous minds.

 

[IceForce]

Piper will ping the quest too in conversation with Nick Valentine. I think before Dangerous minds.

Ah okay, that makes sense. I guess you could also go straight to the Swan's Pond / Boston Common area and follow the trail, even without the quest (or simply skip to the end, if you already know where it ends).

While I haven't tested this myself, I've read that visiting the Institute before meeting with the Railroad for the first time means they don't trust you enough to be friendly. Additionally, (even if done before the Institute stuff) when you talk to Desdemona for the very first time, if you happen to move your character out of dialogue part-way through the conversation (thereby closing the conversation) or if your character glitches out of the conversation (which happens occasionally), Desdemona and every other Railroad member will instantly turn hostile.

They really are a finicky bunch.