Genres that should be linear.

[Sewblon]

Sandbox games have become ubiquitous with games like Grand theft auto and the elder scrolls.
What games should remain linear in the face of this. Point and click adventure games should remain linear since the ability to go anywhere you want once you start playing would compound the difficulty and confusion to horrendous levels.

 

[Fallensky7]

Railshooters.

 

[Altorin]

Railshooters.

Even Railshooters can have branching campaigns.

 

[Avatar Roku]

I don't think any game "should" be linear, it sort of constricts creativity and originality.

Do you mean the creativity of the developer or the gamer? To the first, I respond no it doesn't. Look at HL2 or Bioshock. Would you say those games isn't creative?

To the second, its really a matter of preference. Personally, while I can understand the appeal of sandbox games, and while have enjoyed a few (GTA:SA, Naruto RoaN), I generally have very little patience for them.

 

[RyuGaiden]

Railshooters.

Even Railshooters can have branching campaigns.

Case in point: Panzer Dragoon Orta, one of my favorite games ever ^_^.

 

[Amnestic]

Railshooters.

Even Railshooters can have branching campaigns.

Most of them do, as far as I know.

 

[Avatar Roku]

I don't think any game "should" be linear, it sort of constricts creativity and originality.

Do you mean the creativity of the developer or the gamer? To the first, I respond no it doesn't. Look at HL2 or Bioshock. Would you say those games isn't creative?

To the second, its really a matter of preference. Personally, while I can understand the appeal of sandbox games, and while have enjoyed a few (GTA:SA, Naruto RoaN), I generally have very little patience for them.

You misunderstand, I just meant it would take some of the variety out of the games, I don't particularly like sandbox games, it's just nice to have something once and a while besides your general linear game. Do you see what I'm trying to get at?

To an extent, but there really is nothing wrong with linearity.

 

[Altorin]

games don't have to be sandbox games to be non-linear.

those two terms can't be used interchangeably.

Most sandbox games are non-linear (although some actually are linear), but not all non-linear games are sandbox.

Onimusha 2 was pretty non-linear.. sure, you always fought the same last boss, but the game has a diagram that tracks all your different paths through the game, and while some of them are pretty unimportant, it's still got a lot of variety..

But it's certainly not a sandbox game.

By the same margin, a lot of the Spiderman games FEEL like sandbox games, because you can sling webs all over the city, but there's very little to do in the game except doing the main story, so it's not that non-linear.

EDIT: and honestly, I don't think there's any excuse to make linear games in this day and age. TFU's biggest flaw was its linearity.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Not saying there is, just saying that there is nothing wrong with variety.

True.

EDIT:

EDIT: and honestly, I don't think there's any excuse to make linear games in this day and age. TFU's biggest flaw was its linearity.

Its true of some games (you're right about TFU), but, again, there's nothing wrong with linearity. Again, look at Bioshock or HL2. Would they be better if they were more non-linear?

 

[Silver]

I don't think any game "should" be linear, it sort of constricts creativity and originality.

Do you mean the creativity of the developer or the gamer? To the first, I respond no it doesn't. Look at HL2 or Bioshock. Would you say those games isn't creative?

To the second, its really a matter of preference. Personally, while I can understand the appeal of sandbox games, and while have enjoyed a few (GTA:SA, Naruto RoaN), I generally have very little patience for them.

Yes, I'd say those games are pretty darn uncreative, repetetive and most importantly so linear they're hell to play. Okay, only the first one, I haven't played the second.

I do however have a problem with the topic. There is a lot of ground between sandboxes and linear games. I hate sandbox games, generally, because they're almost always so bloody shallow. I also hate linear games, because there's no choice and no consequences.

I want a deep, engaging game that changes with what I do. Not a shallow static sandbox like GTA where nothing I do every has any effect, not a linear piece of garbage like Half-life where nothing I do every has any effect since I'm just reading my lines, and walking in a straight line.

 

[ranger19]

games don't have to be sandbox games to be non-linear.

those two terms can't be used interchangeably.

Most sandbox games are non-linear (although some actually are linear), but not all non-linear games are sandbox.

Onimusha 2 was pretty non-linear.. sure, you always fought the same last boss, but the game has a diagram that tracks all your different paths through the game, and while some of them are pretty unimportant, it's still got a lot of variety..

But it's certainly not a sandbox game.

By the same margin, a lot of the Spiderman games FEEL like sandbox games, because you can sling webs all over the city, but there's very little to do in the game except doing the main story, so it's not that non-linear.

EDIT: and honestly, I don't think there's any excuse to make linear games in this day and age. TFU's biggest flaw was its linearity.

I agree with you for the most part, especially about the Spider-Man games (which became sandbox but only used that in Spider-Man 3 to make you fight x mobs before opening the next story mission... personally I enjoyed the linear Spider-Man 2 on PSP more than the sandbox one on the consoles, but I digress..).

But I do think there are strong reasons for a game to be linear. Linearity allows devs to focus on quality over quantity; once you choose to go non linear, even a handful of branches can give you an exponentially larger amount of work to do. Also, games that focus on narrative and story can be hindered by an attempt to give the player too many choices; as has been cited in this thread, Bioshock had a wonderful story, but didn't give the player many choices in terms of linearity. Braid is another good example.

It's not that sandbox games don't have their perks, but linearity should not be underrated.

 

[Sewblon]

I don't think any game "should" be linear, it sort of constricts creativity and originality.

Do you mean the creativity of the developer or the gamer? To the first, I respond no it doesn't. Look at HL2 or Bioshock. Would you say those games isn't creative?

To the second, its really a matter of preference. Personally, while I can understand the appeal of sandbox games, and while have enjoyed a few (GTA:SA, Naruto RoaN), I generally have very little patience for them.

Yes, I'd say those games are pretty darn uncreative, repetetive and most importantly so linear they're hell to play. Okay, only the first one, I haven't played the second.

I do however have a problem with the topic. There is a lot of ground between sandboxes and linear games. I hate sandbox games, generally, because they're almost always so bloody shallow. I also hate linear games, because there's no choice and no consequences.

I want a deep, engaging game that changes with what I do. Not a shallow static sandbox like GTA where nothing I do every has any effect, not a linear piece of garbage like Half-life where nothing I do every has any effect since I'm just reading my lines, and walking in a straight line.

Some Poles made that game and called it The Witcher(a game I haven't been able to run since the Enhanced edition patch) My point was that some games would cross into nearly unrelated genres if they where changed from linear to non-linear. For Example, If you gave the player the ability to go were he wants, form alliances with whom he wants and bypass the puzzles in monkey island, you would get Sid Meier's Pirates.

 

[hellthins]

I don't think any game "should" be linear, it sort of constricts creativity and originality.

Do you mean the creativity of the developer or the gamer? To the first, I respond no it doesn't. Look at HL2 or Bioshock. Would you say those games isn't creative?

To the second, its really a matter of preference. Personally, while I can understand the appeal of sandbox games, and while have enjoyed a few (GTA:SA, Naruto RoaN), I generally have very little patience for them.

Yes, I'd say those games are pretty darn uncreative, repetetive and most importantly so linear they're hell to play. Okay, only the first one, I haven't played the second.

I do however have a problem with the topic. There is a lot of ground between sandboxes and linear games. I hate sandbox games, generally, because they're almost always so bloody shallow. I also hate linear games, because there's no choice and no consequences.

I want a deep, engaging game that changes with what I do. Not a shallow static sandbox like GTA where nothing I do every has any effect, not a linear piece of garbage like Half-life where nothing I do every has any effect since I'm just reading my lines, and walking in a straight line.

What about games trying to recreate historic events, like the hundreds of WW2 games, or games that are trying to convey a story and, by extension, a message? For example, Bioshock had only the vaguest hints of interactivity that didn't make a different. It was about the story, and the objectivism sucks message.

 

[Graustein]

I don't know about anyone else, but all of my favourite RPG games are linear, with little-to-no player choice in terms of the game's direction.

 

[Good morning blues]

Point and click adventure games should remain linear since the ability to go anywhere you want once you start playing would compound the difficulty and confusion to horrendous levels.

As a guy who has already made a non-linear point-and-click adventure game that was very favorably received and who is working on another even less linear one, I completely disagree. It all depends on what kind of an experience you want for the player - I don't think there's any genre that couldn't have a good non-linear setup.

 

[Altorin]

Point and click adventure games should remain linear since the ability to go anywhere you want once you start playing would compound the difficulty and confusion to horrendous levels.

As a guy who has already made a non-linear point-and-click adventure game that was very favorably received and who is working on another even less linear one, I completely disagree. It all depends on what kind of an experience you want for the player - I don't think there's any genre that couldn't have a good non-linear setup.

completely agree.

there isn't a "linear" genre, and every game should have some choices up to the player.

 

[hellthins]

I don't know about anyone else, but all of my favourite RPG games are linear, with little-to-no player choice in terms of the game's direction.

I'm going to say you're probably not playing an RPG, since at the core RPGs are about roleplaying and, thus, making choices in the direction of that role. An RPG is the only game I can think of that has to be at least somewhat non-linear, even if it's just two basic choices. The genre as a whole is founded on choices and playing a character. Well, and acting.

 

[Altorin]

I don't know about anyone else, but all of my favourite RPG games are linear, with little-to-no player choice in terms of the game's direction.

I'm going to say you're probably not playing an RPG, since at the core RPGs are about roleplaying and, thus, making choices in the direction of that role. An RPG is the only game I can think of that has to be at least somewhat non-linear, even if it's just two basic choices. The genre as a whole is founded on choices and playing a character. Well, and acting.

Lots of RPGs have a linear story but are presented in a sandbox.

Final Fantasy X for instance.. the story can be written out in point form.. I could do it now.. and to get from start to finish, there's very little you can do, story wise to deviate from that plot.

but there are LOTS of little side things to do, form collecting the ultimate weapons, to unlocking and beating the arena bosses, to making ultimate armors and maxing your stats..

but the game itself is rather linear.

 

[hellthins]

I don't know about anyone else, but all of my favourite RPG games are linear, with little-to-no player choice in terms of the game's direction.

I'm going to say you're probably not playing an RPG, since at the core RPGs are about roleplaying and, thus, making choices in the direction of that role. An RPG is the only game I can think of that has to be at least somewhat non-linear, even if it's just two basic choices. The genre as a whole is founded on choices and playing a character. Well, and acting.

Lots of RPGs have a linear story but are presented in a sandbox.

Final Fantasy X for instance.. the story can be written out in point form.. I could do it now.. and to get from start to finish, there's very little you can do, story wise to deviate from that plot.

but there are LOTS of little side things to do, form collecting the ultimate weapons, to unlocking and beating the arena bosses, to making ultimate armors and maxing your stats..

but the game itself is rather linear.

I'm of the opinion if you can't in some way affect even the surface of the story, it's not a roleplaying game, it's a graphic novel. But I unconditionally hate JRPGs and masturbate over my wonderful d10 and d20, so take what I say however you will.

 

[The Wooster]

I don't think any game "should" be linear, it sort of constricts creativity and originality.

Which is why choose your own adventure books are far more popular than novels.