George R.R. Martin Has A Twist For Someone HBO's Game of Thrones Killed Off

dyre

New member
Mar 30, 2011
2,178
0
0
ravenshrike said:
Deathfish15 said:
Baresark said:
The title of this article actually gave me an aneurysm. I think the title needs to be rethought.

OT: Eh, I feel like he did that just for the hell of it. I don't think the guys is a good writer, personally. I don't think he would be nearly as popular as he is if not for that show, and I think he kind of resents that a bit.

That said, I don't think this will be much of an issue with the show. It's so far removed from the source material as it is, that they can work the twist in a different way.
Show us your novels, otherwise you might need to sit down and shut up. For your information, the show exists based on his good writing and not the other way around. His books existed well before the series and it was the directors of the HBO series that approached Martin to do the show after they'd read his books back in 2006.

He's done some very good award winning work in the past 40+ years that has been adapted by The Outer Limits (SandKings) and work with Stephen King (The Skin Trade, turned into a graphic novel series).
The first three were good. They have gotten increasingly padded and incoherent since.
Yeah, this. I feel like he's lost track of what the plot was supposed to be, and has now settled on just writing whatever nonsense comes to his head with no intention of actually completing any of the random subplots, except maybe by killing off everyone involved. Another series that I liked when I was a kid, A Series of Unfortunate Events, met a similarly disappointing end.

Also, judging even by his first three books, I'd say he's an excellent writer at the "tactical" level (i.e., individual scenes and dialogue) but pretty mediocre at the strategic level (i.e., narrative structure). In hindsight, many chapters in his books were irrelevant in the long-term, both to the central narratives and to the development of major characters. It'd be like if in The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien randomly branched off for one hundred pages to talk about the barmaid at The Prancing Pony, going into needless detail about her relationship problems before killing her off in a freak accident involving a horse-cart and a barrel of rum. Even before the series turned into a TV show, I remember thinking "these books read like a TV show." Which isn't a compliment.
 

K12

New member
Dec 28, 2012
943
0
0
So candidates:

Barristan: Maybe, the show really didn't do him justice and seem to be focusing far more on Jorah. He seems unlikely to be hiding anything though since he's a bit too noble and lacking guile so I can't think what the twist would be.

Stannis: I can't imagine him living much longer in the books if he isn't dead already. His character seems to have served it's purpose by now. Unlikely.

Myrcella: Possibly, I was kind of expecting her to do something important and then the show killed her so I wouldn't be surprised.

Talisa/Jeyne Westerling: Maybe she's pregnant with Robb's baby? Can't really see the point of this apart from driving a wedge between the Boltons and Freys (assuming the Freys have her at the moment). I'm going no.

Mance Rayder: Some secret plan with Melisandre? He's got to be alive for a reason. I think this is a good bet plus there's a major "what now?" question mark hanging over the wall at the moment.

Hizdahr Zo Loraq: could be that he's the Harpy or something like that. I doubt it and hope not. My guess for the harpy (if there is one) is Galazzar Galare (not in the show presumably to limit the number of characters with really complicated names). Another no.

Mago/ Rakharo/ Irri/ another Dothraki character: I was annoyed at how keen the show is to kill of the various dothraki characters and given Daenerys ending this is reasonable likely.

Xaro Xhoan Daxos: I can't imagine what the "twist" would be here. He's likely to play a small part in the books now but I'd be surprised if he gets much more. Probably not.

Catelyn Stark: I bloody hope she does something! You don't bring a character back from the dead and then just have her do fuck all for two books! Ahem, I hope this isn't the one he meant because this should really be obvious already. Plus the show could easily bring her back the same the books did if it's worth it.

Gren and Pyp: Unlikely, they are loyal friends of Jon Snow and I can't imagine any "twist" that would change that. They might do more or might perish in the fallout of the most recent mutiny.

Shireen: I doubt it greatly. She barely features in the books and her murder in the TV show was annoying and didn't gel with my understanding of Stannis as a character. Maybe something to do with Moon boy?

Jojen Reed: Probably dead in the books anyway. He seems like he's served any purpose in the story that he was intended to. I hope Howland Reed's disappearance means something at some point though. Probably not.

I probably missed some people but from these my guess would be Mance Rayder.

I disagree with the people here saying that he's changed something purely to spite the series or make people continue to be interested in his books. If he was willing to let those kind of shallow considerations take him away from the story he wants to write then I'd expect him to be writing a fair bit faster.
 

TheRightToArmBears

New member
Dec 13, 2008
8,674
0
0
Seems to me like it's Lady Stoneheart.

...Which is a shame, because Lady Stoneheart has to be one of my least favourite parts of the books.
 

Damian Porter

New member
Aug 11, 2015
66
0
0
Charcharo said:
Damian Porter said:
Charcharo said:
Cinema/TV/Video Games. The inferior art forms/mediums (for now).
No, they aren't inferior. Not even close. What a stupid thing to say.
Well I have been a gamer ALL my life.
Sometimes though, for any progress to be made, one must acknowledge certain things. Such is life. It is how it is.
Yeah, like acknowledging the fact that your opinion is not fact. Saying one medium is somehow superior displays complete ignorance.

I too have been gaming all my life. I've also read books and watched TV shows and movies, and I've found only pathetic elite pricks would claim books are somehow superior. I've heard all the excuses, and they are just that, excuses.
 

Damian Porter

New member
Aug 11, 2015
66
0
0
Charcharo said:
Damian Porter said:
Charcharo said:
Damian Porter said:
Charcharo said:
Cinema/TV/Video Games. The inferior art forms/mediums (for now).
No, they aren't inferior. Not even close. What a stupid thing to say.
Well I have been a gamer ALL my life.
Sometimes though, for any progress to be made, one must acknowledge certain things. Such is life. It is how it is.
Yeah, like acknowledging the fact that your opinion is not fact. Saying one medium is somehow superior displays complete ignorance.

I too have been gaming all my life. I've also read books and watched TV shows and movies, and I've found only pathetic elite pricks would claim books are somehow superior. I've heard all the excuses, and they are just that, excuses.
1) You would do well to reread my comment and actually understand it. Judging by your comment, you seem to have not done so.

2) That is fine mate. Hell, more power to you! Unfortunately, I VERY STRONGLY disagree. It is the opposite, what your average gamer says is a stupid excuse usually.
I did read your comment and I STRONGLY disagree with YOU. Nothing you said was a fact and I'm calling you out on it. No, it isn't the opposite because book lovers ARE making excuses.
 

Damian Porter

New member
Aug 11, 2015
66
0
0
Charcharo said:
So... you do not classify yourself as a book lover?
You think that literature is in a position where it has to make excuses... to video games and gamers? The hell? It was (wrongly) the opposite till a few years ago.

And no, you may have read the comment, but that does not mean you understood it.
I understood your post just fine. It wasn't as factual or insightful as you think it was. And yes, you are making excuses. Literature itself doesn't need to make excuses, it's people like you making the excuses based on the age of the medium. Books aren't superior. They are just another medium to tell stories. And like the other mediums, there are tons of crap along with good stuff.
 

Damian Porter

New member
Aug 11, 2015
66
0
0
Charcharo said:
Good. Rothfuss agrees on your last point. But ... not what I was talking about :(

Something NOT being insightful does not mean it is always understood. I understand what you are writing, it is gung ho in nature and irrelevant to what I was saying.

Have been in these discussions with gamers before. It will not progress. It is a waste of time.
What does this have to do with being a gamer? I'm not arguing your point as a gamer. Once again, it is you who seems to be missing the point.

Literature DOES have its share of bad writing and bad authors. Deal with it. Defending it by saying games/movies/tv are the ones with bad writing just proves you are being ignorant on this topic. Once again, you brought no facts here, yet you are trying to argue your point as if it were fact but not providing a proper reason.
 
Nov 28, 2007
10,686
0
0
Charcharo said:
Damian Porter said:
Charcharo said:
Good. Rothfuss agrees on your last point. But ... not what I was talking about :(

Something NOT being insightful does not mean it is always understood. I understand what you are writing, it is gung ho in nature and irrelevant to what I was saying.

Have been in these discussions with gamers before. It will not progress. It is a waste of time.
What does this have to do with being a gamer? I'm not arguing your point as a gamer. Once again, it is you who seems to be missing the point.

Literature DOES have its share of bad writing and bad authors. Deal with it. Defending it by saying games/movies/tv are the ones with bad writing just proves you are being ignorant on this topic. Once again, you brought no facts here, yet you are trying to argue your point as if it were fact but not providing a proper reason.
Will make it simpler for you.
The ABSOLUTE BEST video games have is not EVEN COME CLOSE to (not even in the same dimension) the best of literature. The difference is enormous and I probably will not live long enough to see it on a comparable plane. I will die before that.
The worst of video games is also generally worse than most publishable drivel.

And still, this is not what I said...this is pointless.
I don't completely disagree with you, and I would actually say you have a point that the best of literature is better written than the best of video game stories. One thing you really have to consider, though, is that it has only been about 25 years since video games have really been capable of having a story without sacrificing gameplay. Not only has literature been around a far longer time, but story is literally all there is about a book. If a book has a terrible story, nothing can make up for it, whereas it is possible for a game to have a terrible story, and still be a great game (Super Mario Bros. 3, for example). The comparison doesn't quite work on a 1-1 basis.
 

Jute88

New member
Sep 17, 2015
286
0
0
the.chad said:
My money would be on

Barristan Selmy
Still can't believe they killed him off in the show :(
Damn. I had already forgotten that death scene. Damn you.
 

Angelous Wang

Lord of I Don't Care
Oct 18, 2011
575
0
0
I think I remember in a past interview he said he liked Ros's character and that he was thinking about writhing her into the books.

Then Joffrey killed her not that long after.

Maybe he wrote her in anyway.
 

RedDeadFred

Illusions, Michael!
May 13, 2009
4,896
0
0
Politrukk said:
the.chad said:
My money would be on

Barristan Selmy
Still can't believe they killed him off in the show :(
yeah that was a pointless death in the show.
I know! I was really excited for his moment of badassery that would have come at the end of the season. Even as the credits rolled on that episode, I did not think for a second that he was actually dead.
 

WarpedMind

New member
Nov 8, 2014
42
0
0
Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire haven't been the same story since like, episode 9 of season one, they don't value the same things and they cannot possibly end up in the same place.