Georgia and Russia on Brink of War
- Thread starter Unmannedperson
- Start date
Every country has its ambitions. It's way of satisfying 'em that matters. And I can't really blame Russia for theirs. Bcoz, IMO, their way isn't that bad.Saskwach said:
Situation when citizen of country near you are getting bombed for not being part of country that they don't want to be, is for sure not worth interrupting, yeah.Knight Templar said:
The Russians have sent tanks and aircraft into georgia in support of the south ossetians (if that's how you spell it), possibly because a lot of Russian nationals in Georgia want are having problems with the Georgian government. I seriously doubt that it's about the Russians wanting to retake georgia and start a new soviet union as it will probaby collapse as fast if not faster than the old one. the russans will probably beat the georgians and then withdraw at the behest of the UN.
Is it just me, or are the Russians doing a lot of the ' I'm here, look at my big tank, i'm still a world player' thing recently? flying bombers over NATO airspace and attacking georgia. Then again, the US invades people all the time so maybe they are just showing that they can do it too.
Is it just me, or are the Russians doing a lot of the ' I'm here, look at my big tank, i'm still a world player' thing recently? flying bombers over NATO airspace and attacking georgia. Then again, the US invades people all the time so maybe they are just showing that they can do it too.
Significant political players in the "West," mostly the ones still attached to a fairly old-school kind of cold-war thinking, see China as a rapidly rising global superpower and believe that control of the world's energy is the best way to rein it in.the jellyman said:Is it just me, or are the Russians doing a lot of the ' I'm here, look at my big tank, i'm still a world player' thing recently? flying bombers over NATO airspace and attacking georgia. Then again, the US invades people all the time so maybe they are just showing that they can do it too.
"Control of the world's energy" means trying to dick the Russians out of theirs. Putin and Medvedev's saber-rattling is, in part, a response to that. This is pretty much what the Khodorkovsky affair was all about.
-- Alex
I like it how the USA and friends invade a country thousands of miles from home (Iraq) and that is somehow just and yet when Russia protect a state from an ally of NATO who sneakily time their invasion with the beginning of the Olympics then somehow the Russians are in the wrong.
Typical glorious 'western democracy', you have a right to choose as long as you make the right choice. Whats that you say? You consider yourself Russian? Well consider yourself an area with no electricity then, and with your choice also comes military bombardment. Georgia treats Ossetians like shit but because Georgia hates Russia then its a "valued friend of the West", well with friends like that who needs terrorists?
Anyone with a hint of nuetrality would see the Georgians need to get their asses handed to them here. I fail to see why any Western nation needs to get involved. You poke a bear in the eye then you should not expect your friends to help you fight it. Now they want a cease-fire? Seems about right, punch someone in the face then ask for a cease fire.
All this over an area 1,506 square miles in size with the population of a small city.
Typical glorious 'western democracy', you have a right to choose as long as you make the right choice. Whats that you say? You consider yourself Russian? Well consider yourself an area with no electricity then, and with your choice also comes military bombardment. Georgia treats Ossetians like shit but because Georgia hates Russia then its a "valued friend of the West", well with friends like that who needs terrorists?
Anyone with a hint of nuetrality would see the Georgians need to get their asses handed to them here. I fail to see why any Western nation needs to get involved. You poke a bear in the eye then you should not expect your friends to help you fight it. Now they want a cease-fire? Seems about right, punch someone in the face then ask for a cease fire.
All this over an area 1,506 square miles in size with the population of a small city.
copy,paste + pinch of salt, dash of Oregano.EchetusXe said:
its also nice to know that Geogre is attacking escaping refuges/hospitals and then asking for a ceasefire. after reading that wiki page it would seem unjust if US forces step in would be the pot calling the kettle black, but any truth to " Daniel Fried said that it appeared that the South Ossetians were the provokers of the violence. Fried said, "We have urged the Russians to urge their South Ossetian friends to pull back and show greater restraint. And we believe that the Russians ... are trying to do just that." that if Geogre doesn't back off they should just let Russia walk over them......
I'm just imagining it. You could fit many of those countries in my city alone. I'm just picturing 2 small armies invading my town over territorial control.EchetusXe said:
Sounds really fishy on both sides. It really seems like they have both been provoking each other. I have an inkling that this was definitely planned. For what reason? Maybe a pre-text for Russian to invade Georgia?
Since the only acceptable way to enter into war is to 'defend' your citizens. History shows us that the majority of first strikes are staged as an excuse to get into war. Because mutually hating each other and agreeing to bomb the crap out of one another is apparently frowned upon by the UN. Georgia vowed to re-take the territory. What does Russia want? Someone said oil pipelines. Can anyone confirm this?
Abkhazia is larger and more valuable economically than South Ossetia, and is in a similar political situation (de-facto independent state trying to break away from Georgia). Both Russia and Georgia are looking at what happens in South Ossetia for precedent as to what'll happen there.Railu said:
-- Alex
peachesSpleeni said:
That was a joke, I know it is a country.
Fun little expirement, I think today I'm going to walk around town asking random people if Georgia is a country. And them Russia is invading Georgia...probably start a second cold war.
I turned on the news this morning and all I saw was stuff about housing mortages. Nothing about an upcoming war.
/facepalm
With lots of guns and coal.Saskwach said:
Regarding the conflict:
Oh dear...
Oh my...
Oh deary oh my...
Your press still isn't quite sure how to present this to you. Give the government (and press) some time.the monopoly guy said:
I'm predicting that south Ossetia is claimed to be an independant state within 3 weeks but their may be some terrorism afterwards from Georgia which will lead to Russia declaring full frontal war on Georgia which will be silenced relatively quickly again. unless nato and the UN side against Russia in which case Russia will take on half the world single handedly and win...and it will be AWESOME (sings Dominion/Mother Russia)
anyone else find it ironic that the US and UK are capitalizing on the dispute 'demanding' a cease fire for no reason other than to try and repair their poor humanity to war record?
anyone else find it ironic that the US and UK are capitalizing on the dispute 'demanding' a cease fire for no reason other than to try and repair their poor humanity to war record?
No, our press is just stupid. The government flat out admitted that they lied to go to war and only one person coverd it on the news, one damn person out of all the other news shows and 24 hours news channels. They'll put an emu escaping form a zoo on national news, but not that.dart sifilis said:
I'd be cautious about playing the blame game as yet another war breaks out. There is so much that I don't know about the region and conflict (and I think many others on this forum are the same) while both sides are concealing a lot of information and facts as well as manipulating other truths for their own benefit. This makes it very hard to objectively determine who is justified, for me at least.
But war is where politics end and it is no longer about law, justice or discussion and the fact of who is right or wrong is purely academic since it's the battlefield that will determine the outcome. The time for discussion was long ago when Russia shot down a Georgian UAV or when the first border clash broke out.
However, I suspect Russia doesn't wants to get into a long war any more than Georgia does but the dogs of war have already been let loose and either side can't back down first. This is the 'prisoner's dilemma' or 'Peace-War Game' that lead to two World Wars in Europe as the conflicts escalate then draw in allies. Since WWII this is normally solved by changing the objectives of war from total victory to fighting for a stalemate. This is much easier to do and can bring an end to the conflict quicker and with fewer casualties with a much greater chance of achieving the key objectives. They key components are:
-each side achieves as many objectives as they can (occupy town/reservoir/factory etc)
-each side is fights to occupy strong defensive positions (high ground, airports)
-each side recognises the futility of continuing to fight (in he 1st World War it took 4 years but the lesson is well learnt)
-some outside power (usually the UN or their allies) calling for a ceasefire
-and finally both sides having the guts to come to the negotiating table and discuss a peace with the threat of bullets and bombs rather than bombs themselves.
Of course this wont work if one army completely outclasses another such as US/UK against the Iraqi army where a total victory is attainable with minimal casualties (but then there is the problem of the insurgency/guerilla phase).
But war is where politics end and it is no longer about law, justice or discussion and the fact of who is right or wrong is purely academic since it's the battlefield that will determine the outcome. The time for discussion was long ago when Russia shot down a Georgian UAV or when the first border clash broke out.
However, I suspect Russia doesn't wants to get into a long war any more than Georgia does but the dogs of war have already been let loose and either side can't back down first. This is the 'prisoner's dilemma' or 'Peace-War Game' that lead to two World Wars in Europe as the conflicts escalate then draw in allies. Since WWII this is normally solved by changing the objectives of war from total victory to fighting for a stalemate. This is much easier to do and can bring an end to the conflict quicker and with fewer casualties with a much greater chance of achieving the key objectives. They key components are:
-each side achieves as many objectives as they can (occupy town/reservoir/factory etc)
-each side is fights to occupy strong defensive positions (high ground, airports)
-each side recognises the futility of continuing to fight (in he 1st World War it took 4 years but the lesson is well learnt)
-some outside power (usually the UN or their allies) calling for a ceasefire
-and finally both sides having the guts to come to the negotiating table and discuss a peace with the threat of bullets and bombs rather than bombs themselves.
Of course this wont work if one army completely outclasses another such as US/UK against the Iraqi army where a total victory is attainable with minimal casualties (but then there is the problem of the insurgency/guerilla phase).
In my half asleep state, I heard my brother talking to one of his friends about this over the phone. I thought he was talking about a book he'd read or a story he was writing. I had NO IDEA this was actually happening.
Frickin' wars.
Frickin' wars.