German/Japanese WW2 game
- Thread starter SacremPyrobolum
- Start date
That's an entirely different story. The afgan war is going on right now. WW2 is in the past. Pearl Harbour was more than half a century ago and 9/11 not even a decade.Jroo wuz heer said:
True noone said it HAD to be realistic. Probably wont happen though, at least not in a long while until WW2 is basically what the middle ages is to us today.busterkeatonrules said:
There was an aerial combat game for the Ancient PC (I'm talking Tandy 1000... showing my age here!) called Battle of Britain where you could take part in the battle as either the Luftwaffe or the RAF. It was very tactical, for example as the Luftwaffe you could choose to bomb radar stations initially to reduce the number of RAF aircraft intercepting you, or try to grind down the British aircraft production industry and airfields. Could have been that I was only 12 or so and didn't know much about history, but the gameplay was such that it didn't feel bad that I was trying to invade Britain and was gaining ranks and medals in the German air force!
The guerrilla warfare sounds interesting, if done right. Any game that attempts it (Red Faction: Guerrilla and The Saboteur) make it a tad ham-handed.Hardcore_gamer said:
I don't see your point. Everyone on any front line of any war ever killed people. When Americans gunned down Nazis, they were killing people. Men with families. Men who were individually mourned at funerals by loved ones, and were buried in graves.
We don't even get into when we bombed Berlin, or firebombed Tokyo and Dresden, where we just killed families, and yes, Germany blitzed London to the ground, killing families. In war, everyone's a bastard, and everyone murders.
That's what much of war is. Killing people, and whether they're the goodies or the baddies really doesn't fucking [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlel9hiod7i] matter. We get to play at war with our similations, but we should never forget that in the real deal, there is always another human life at the other end of a bullet's trajectory. We have to maintain our gratitude that our enemies are only constructs manufactured for our enjoyment. We must never lose sight the horror that is real war, one that dwarfs all of Hell's other torments.
So, what was your point?
I don't think the games industry has to justify tasteful - not since Manhunt. MW2 proved this with their 'mowing down of civilians' level.SacremPyrobolum said:
It's no more boring that playing as the winning side. That's what I've always disliked about WWII games: you already know how the story ends. Win or lose, it's still boring.Jackpot524 said:
I love how, no matter whether you're on the good side or the bad side, there's always an excuse to shoot at Russians. They've superseded good and bad to become everybody's common enemy.Nagisa94 said:
The game should show two sides: germans and allies.
As the germans you'd play in the invasions of Poland, Scandinavia, Western Europe, Africa Russia and England, as well as operation Market Garden and the ardennes offensive. possibly D-day and the finnish winter war as well.
Then you play as the allies(perhaps in between the german missions) you fight in the defensive in the above operations(pretty short, obviously) and the counter offensives in africa(though I'd prefer not, since rommel is awesome), Italy, Russia, D-day, etc.
Maybe they should make it non-historical, like the japanese campaign in battlestations-pacific.
As the germans you'd play in the invasions of Poland, Scandinavia, Western Europe, Africa Russia and England, as well as operation Market Garden and the ardennes offensive. possibly D-day and the finnish winter war as well.
Then you play as the allies(perhaps in between the german missions) you fight in the defensive in the above operations(pretty short, obviously) and the counter offensives in africa(though I'd prefer not, since rommel is awesome), Italy, Russia, D-day, etc.
Maybe they should make it non-historical, like the japanese campaign in battlestations-pacific.
Why? Why stray away from that subject? Mowing down Germans, Russians, Iraqis, Afghans and Africans is okay, but leave Americans alone? What, pray tell, is the difference?Nagisa94 said:
"What's the fun of playing a game where you're destined to lose?" - Well, what's the fun of playing as America in the Vietnam war games? Isn't it basically the same thing?
If the game is made good enough, tells the story well enough, why wouldn't it sell? It would be something completely new, it could actually show some of the horrors of war instead of the same old war glorification we've seen again, and again, and again often with a sub-theme of America being #1.
Who wouldn't be horrified by standing guard in a Concentration camp only with the mission objective "Shoot on sight - prevent anyone from escaping"
You wouldn't even have to be forced into killing anyone - maybe you only see 1 family try to escape. A mother, father and child. And if you don't shoot them, you either see them get captured again and pulled back, maybe killed by the other guards. Or you yourself is executed for not following orders. Either way, you're left with a sour taste in your mouth of the horror of what orders can make you do, or the consequences you might suffer if you don't follow them as the obedient drone you are.
We gamers are good at them. Give us a mission objective in game and we'll do it, without thinking about 'why'.
I'd love to see a game where you actually have a choice so you can question your orders. Especially in an immersive war FPS.
But we probably wont see that happening.
Guys, have you ever played Command: Ace of the Deep or Silent Hunter 3? You play the bad guys. You play a U-boat sinking civilian shipping and warships alike. 99% of times, you'll die, all hands lost at sea. The odds stack against you the longer you play and if you survive, guess what, you've still lost the war.
It's the only type of game in which playing Axis, especially Germans, is acceptable, because there is an aura of nobility and respectability to the U-boat service in WWII as the Kriegsmarine was the least Nazi branch of its armed force. Many Kaleuns were in fact crypto-antinazi, some of them were vocally mocking the regime under the protection of their Hero status.
"Teddy" Suhren, for instance, came back from his last mission mockingly asking whether the Nazis were still ruling Germany, and when learning that they did he ordered his crew to turn around and return to sea, and this was in 1942. This became widely known in the Uboat service, and the guy got no consequence. In fact, BdU would routinely cover-up for Kaleuns and U-boatservicemen on furlough creating mayhem, getting drunk, whoring around, insulting the regime, or punching officials on the nose.
But this was offset by quite a few officers and underofficers who were rabid Nazis of their own. One Kaleun got shot for cowardice and defeatism when he was denounced by his own pro-Nazi First Offficer.
It's the only type of game in which playing Axis, especially Germans, is acceptable, because there is an aura of nobility and respectability to the U-boat service in WWII as the Kriegsmarine was the least Nazi branch of its armed force. Many Kaleuns were in fact crypto-antinazi, some of them were vocally mocking the regime under the protection of their Hero status.
"Teddy" Suhren, for instance, came back from his last mission mockingly asking whether the Nazis were still ruling Germany, and when learning that they did he ordered his crew to turn around and return to sea, and this was in 1942. This became widely known in the Uboat service, and the guy got no consequence. In fact, BdU would routinely cover-up for Kaleuns and U-boatservicemen on furlough creating mayhem, getting drunk, whoring around, insulting the regime, or punching officials on the nose.
But this was offset by quite a few officers and underofficers who were rabid Nazis of their own. One Kaleun got shot for cowardice and defeatism when he was denounced by his own pro-Nazi First Offficer.
Getting squashed on the edges of the Volga is no fun.bog7metal said:
I don't see anyone asking to be able to play, say, Italy, or Australia.
A lot of people are suggesting that this game would work, but would have to be done tastefully and showcase how wrong the Axis forces were...
Um, why?
For the vast majority of Japanese and German troops, World War II wasn't a moustache-twirling cavalcade of atrocity. Most of these people were- sometimes involuntarily, mind you- just fighting for their countries and their families.
We've demonized the Axis forces to the point where they've become cartoonish villains. If you want brutal realism in these games, why not have a campaign where the drafted American soldier tries his hardest to keep his head down and stay out of combat just so he can survive his required tour of duty?
It's entirely possible to present both sides of World War II in a balanced way, but most shooter developers aren't willing to deal in those shades of grey, since they don't exactly make for compelling and action-packed gunplay. Or, even more simply, game developers just don't want to deal with the controversy of making the "bad guys" seem heroic (see the removal of the Taliban from the Medal of Honor multiplayer), so they don't bother.
If you want an example of a fantastic presentation of both sides of the same WWII coin, check out Clint Eastwood's movies Flags of our Fathers and Letters From Iwo Jima. Both the Americans and Japanese are presented as completely human, each side complete with its heroic acts and its deplorable acts.
Um, why?
For the vast majority of Japanese and German troops, World War II wasn't a moustache-twirling cavalcade of atrocity. Most of these people were- sometimes involuntarily, mind you- just fighting for their countries and their families.
We've demonized the Axis forces to the point where they've become cartoonish villains. If you want brutal realism in these games, why not have a campaign where the drafted American soldier tries his hardest to keep his head down and stay out of combat just so he can survive his required tour of duty?
It's entirely possible to present both sides of World War II in a balanced way, but most shooter developers aren't willing to deal in those shades of grey, since they don't exactly make for compelling and action-packed gunplay. Or, even more simply, game developers just don't want to deal with the controversy of making the "bad guys" seem heroic (see the removal of the Taliban from the Medal of Honor multiplayer), so they don't bother.
If you want an example of a fantastic presentation of both sides of the same WWII coin, check out Clint Eastwood's movies Flags of our Fathers and Letters From Iwo Jima. Both the Americans and Japanese are presented as completely human, each side complete with its heroic acts and its deplorable acts.
I've always liked this idea. Instead of seeing the Allied forces mowing Germans down with 3 magazines and a knife, seeing a German take down Brits and Yanks with German weapons... It doesn't have to be based on the war. As if 10 men in WW2 went about France taking out hundreds of Germans, it's the same but the other way around.
I could easily see it happening. A game designer could cast the player as a regular German soldier and still paint the Nazi regime and the SS as the bad guys. Treyarch didn't sell the Russians short on their brutality against the German soldiers, I bet someone could make a WWII game as the Germans and still get across that "Nazis are bad, but not all Germans thought they were good."
Playing in the German Blitzkrieg at the beginning of WW2 or the successful (partially - they prevented the Allies taking the last bridge) German campaign in Operation Market garden.. that would be nice..
Also even just falling back and fighting a tremendous last stand at the Reichstag would be awesome fighting off hordes of Russian soldiers and then dying honorably as you're massively out manned.. and make it an unscripted (as in no big explosion to KO you for effect) death so its a challenge for the player to see how long they can last, like in zombies..
Also even just falling back and fighting a tremendous last stand at the Reichstag would be awesome fighting off hordes of Russian soldiers and then dying honorably as you're massively out manned.. and make it an unscripted (as in no big explosion to KO you for effect) death so its a challenge for the player to see how long they can last, like in zombies..