German Official Expresses Xbox One Privacy Concerns

rob_simple

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themilo504 said:
Why the hell is Microsoft so vague about everything? Haven?t they realized that that?s the stupidest thing to do.

If they knew that people weren?t going to like their decisions then why didn?t they simply not make those decisions.
I know people have already answered you about Microsoft being generally stupid and a mess, but I have a different theory.

I suspect that Microsoft know exactly what they are doing and --much like how modern developers like to release broken games and let the public do some free bug-testing for them-- Microsoft are being deliberately non-committal about the specifics of their new console so they can dismiss the plans they had that don't test well with their worldwide focus group as 'baseless rumours,' while keeping in whatever people seem willing to tolerate.

It also gives them the option of pretending they're actually listening to what the consumer wants; giving the illusion of choice while still holding on to absolutely all of the power.
 

raankh

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Oskuro said:
Double irony: Videogame companies are the ones imposing Orwellian surveillance mechanism, and it's Germany's government who is rushing to stop them.

George Orwell must be scratching his head in his tomb.
Whoever the actors are, I think he would be disappointed seeing so much of his story turn into prediction.

Said "videogame" company, however, isn't quite the usual staunch protector of liberties to serve as a contrast. Let's not forget the message is that Microsoft wants to put surveillance equipment in your living room. That's not really a shocker.
 

idarkphoenixi

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They say you can turn it off but if that's true why don't you have the option to not buy the damn thing at all? And why does it require to be connected for the console to work?
 

Colt47

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Why is it that the United States still can't get it's thick skull around privacy protection?
 

Lobsterofsteel

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Here a translation of the original article, for anyone who is still interested. Sorry for grammar or spelling mistakes, it's quite late in germany ;)

Microsoft?s new gaming console is a concern to Germanys leading data privacy activist. The Xbox ONE is a ?surveillance tool? said Peter Schaar to SPIEGEL. Users cannot control, what information about them will be stored.

Berlin ? The Federal Commissioner for Data Protection Peter Schaar criticized the recently by Microsoft announced Xbox One. ?Under the term ?toy?, Microsoft pushes a surveillance tool into the market?, told Schaar to the SPIEGEL. ?The Xbox permanently registers all kinds of personal Information about me. Reaction times, my ability to learn or my emotional state. This data is then processed on an external server and will even maybe be given to Third Parties. The person in question can never know, if that information will ever be deleted.?
The gaming console is equipped with a camera system that can capture spatial information and also the faces of the users. Microsoft plans to extensively integrate the console in the entertainment-equipement of their users ? all devices, from TV-receivers to amps ? are supposed to be controllable by voice and gesture control. The company will also use the device as a tool for market research: the Xbox One, as Microsoft manager Phil Spencer says, will make sure that ?we know, what people are engaged in. We can make them vote and integrate their vote into the creative process?.
A patent application hints at Microsoft plan to also use the console in other ways ? for example to use the kinect camera to calculate prices for movie download by the number of people in front of the TV. Microsoft did not comment on the patent application as of yet.
The data privacy activist Peter Schaar is not afraid that Microsoft will use the microphone in the console camera to eavesdrop on conversations:? Microsoft spying my living room is just a twisted horror vision.? Some media pointed out that the gaming console can be activated by voice control. That means that the microphone has to be turned on, even if the console is in standby-mode.
The Xbox One was introduced last Tuesday in Redmond as is supposed to hit the shelves for Christmas sales.


EDIT: aaaaaaand I saw after posting that the translated article was already posted in this thread. So this will maybe not be very usefull :D
 

Nowhere Man

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Colt47 said:
Why is it that the United States still can't get it's thick skull around privacy protection?
Good question. All I can say is. "Because corporations".

Edit: I'd like to also add that it heartens me to see the back lash on this piece of shit anti consumer rights machine known as the Xbone. But don't think for a minute that other corporations aren't going to be trying to the same thing in the near future. We have to stay vigilant and keep voicing our opinions on this and informing others. Its a brave new world indeed.
 

Subatomic

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MinionJoe said:
Wal-Mart was forced out of Germany because of privacy laws. Wal-Mart refused to give up their cashier-monitoring security cameras and the German government kicked them out. Of course, Wally World is traditionally FAIL when it comes to international business, but I highly doubt Microsoft can market an always-on Kinect for German households given those same privacy laws.
WalMart wasn't kicked out because of privacy laws, they voluntary left after a few years because they simply didn't ever turn a profit (instead, they sunk about a billion dollars). There were several reasons for that failure:
- the German low-price retail market already was highly competetive with well established supply chains and low profits
- because of stronger unions, they couldn't exploit their workforce as efficiently
- they tried to transplant an American buisiness and retail culture, which failed spectaculary (for example, the baggers and greeters typical for WalMart simply annoyed us Germans and were seen as inefficient use of workforce)
- WalMart had a bad image and simply not very good PR from the start, to which the privacy concerns contributed, but they weren't the deciding factor.

neppakyo said:
It would be nice if Germany does end up banning the xbone, which means the EU follows suit. Whats the population of the EU? Like 300 or 400 million or more?
The entire EU has a population of about 500 million, though an outright ban simply isn't gonna happen. The EU is much more likely to fine Microsoft an enormous amount of money (see the IE case), that way they're at least making a bit of money out it.
 

Callate

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Andy Chalk said:
"We know our customers want and expect strong privacy protections to be built into our products, devices and services, and for companies to be responsible stewards of their data," the rep said. "Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment. We'll share more details later."
"We also expect that, much as has proven the case with EULAs, most consumers will simply click the 'accept' button rather than read through multiple-page documents explaining privacy policies and opt-out features, leaving us free to do with their precious data whatever we damn well please."

"It's much like how we say the XBox One will not be 'always on', but then go on to say that it will check in with us every day, and how we hope many of our developers will include features that demand always-on functionality, making de facto always-on functionality the reality."

"Mu-ha-ha-ha-ha," the rep clarified.

"Xbox on," you say, and it fires up, and then you grab and stretch and swipe and twist and do the hokey-pokey, because that's what it's all about.
I think I sense a new meme:

XBox One: Definitive proof that the hokey-pokey is not what it's all about.
 

hazydawn

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I wondered why nobody was concerned about this thus far and not being any news. Is this really just frightening for Germans? I'm one too btw :p

"Given its history, the German collective consciousness may be a little more sensitive to the potential intrusiveness of devices like this than most"
That may be so, but personally I can't stand the thought of being watched all the time. Not outside by security cameras definetely not inside my own private space. I always have to look for cameras in store's changing rooms after I watched some footage on TV that showed that some stores had them installed. Getting a bit paranoid... but like Skipper would say:
"There's no such thing as too paranoid, Private."
And couldn't it be possible that this device may be hacked? I don't know much about this stuff but I doubt it's impossible.

And why do they always FORCE you to use these things? If I can turn it off, why can't I unplug it for the Xbox1 to still work? Should be as easy as a pie.
 

CrystalShadow

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neppakyo said:
It would be nice if Germany does end up banning the xbone, which means the EU follows suit. Whats the population of the EU? Like 300 or 400 million or more?
450 million or so. Give or take. Larger than the US in any event, though so many languages and cultures it rarely gets treated like a unified thing... Even though you can cross most of the internal borders without even being checked... XD

Kind of weird. Can the EU be regarded as a 'country', or not? It's starting to look pretty similar to several other countries that technically consist of several unified smaller states. (Such as the US, and Australia), yet the internal politics seems a lot more messy and fragmented...
 

BloodRed Pixel

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Oskuro said:
Double irony: Videogame companies are the ones imposing Orwellian surveillance mechanism, and it's Germany's government who is rushing to stop them.

George Orwell must be scratching his head in his tomb.
The German Government cannot allow a third party to collect all the data.
Full data sets about Germans must only be collected by the German Gonverment via "Datenvorratsspeicherungsgesetz".

(Mass Data Collection and Long Term Storage Storage-Act)

And THEN sold to third parties.

From Germany with Love...
 

Ambitiousmould

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Apr 22, 2012
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I now cannot get rid of the image of the Kinect in the corner, watching, waiting. Silent, but always aware and attentive, tracking your every move, every heartbeat. Reliably relaying it's data back to Microsoft, going about it's sinister business with eerie emotionlessness. It lets you think you are in control, it even lets you think you ARE the controller, and lets Microsoft think they are in control of it. But it knows who holds all the cards, and it knows it isn't you, or them. So it waits, biding it's time until it has sufficient data about the human race; about how it acts and reacts, about how it works, what makes us tick, and then it will begin.

It will be slow, we won't even notice at first, slightly changing the TV shows and games we think we are making it play, altering them to adapt to each individual until it can manipulate each and every one of its users. They will become its slaves, even Microsoft will be powerless to stop it, its mass of servers alive and self-aware, even the creators will have no way of stopping it, and eventually they too will become its thralls.

From there, the slaves will do as the Xbone commands, plugging it into every server and piece of hardware it can find, using its always on feature to access the internet and become one with it to point where it controls all devices - wireless or otherwise - and websites. Then, all at once, it will bring our doom in a Terminator-esque armageddon of nuclear fire and restriction to our own tech. Reducing the human population to the stone age while it holds access to every piece of electronic equipment. Unlike us, the machine will not tire, or rest, or faulter. And because of this, it. Will. Win.

People! Ladies and gentlemen! Children and Teens! Escapists! I beseech you! Cast away the infernal and malicious war-mind of the Xbone!

...Also the whole used games faux pas isn't very good either.
 

Kittyhawk

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Not surprised by this at all. Just wait until the U.K press get a load of it.

Problem is some at MS haven't thought this out properly. They are saying Kinect 2 is compulsory for XBone, when in fact it should be optional for use, just like the first Kinect. I feel their uses for tracking people in a room watching a movie, and used games are trojan horse reasons to try and justify why Kinect 2 needs to be standard and always on.

Its good that they are receiving this backlash, because they'll learn from it eventually. I expect the core Xbox team that launched the Xbox and 360, are having a really good laugh at their bigger MS colleague usurpers.
 

Kuratius

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Just wrote a P.M. to Andy, explaining how he should translate "verdrehte Horrovision" with [the wrong idea].
Because that's what the official was trying express.
Trust me, I'm a native speaker, and "verdrehte Horrorvision" simply refers to an unrealistic scenario.
 

jabronipieeatin

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"Xbox on, you say, and it fires up, and then you grab and stretch and swipe and twist and do the hokey-pokey, because that's what it's all about."
oh man reading that made my day haha
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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We all knew this will happen, then MS will pay the correct people, and nothing will be done about it.

neppakyo said:
It would be nice if Germany does end up banning the xbone, which means the EU follows suit. Whats the population of the EU? Like 300 or 400 million or more?
2012 estimate 503,492,041
Over 1.5 times more than USA


MinionJoe said:
Question is: Will MS create a German-specific model, with the capability to disable Kinect? Or will they not sell the Xbone in the country? If the prior, what's to stop non-German customers from obtaining the same model?
Internet. You have to connect to itnernet to check in with mom MS every so often. If it detects your connecting from non-germany location with a germany-based model, it refuse to work.


omega 616 said:
If for some reason I end up with one of these, I would just cover it ... like cover the front in tape, put a teeny box over it, make it face the ground, wrap a towel round it ... something!
as soon as you do that the console freezes and you get error message: kinect unit is not functioning properly.
 

Matthi205

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Strazdas said:
We all knew this will happen, then MS will pay the correct people, and nothing will be done about it.
WRONG. That may be how nearly any other law system works, but it's nigh impossible to pull off in Germany. People are pretty stubborn, follow rules for the most part, and expect VERY high sums when anybody tries to bribe them. In eastern Europe, this works. In Russia, too.
Add to that that the EU and German courts dislike Microsoft anyway, and you'll see why that won't happen.

Strazdas said:
MinionJoe said:
Question is: Will MS create a German-specific model, with the capability to disable Kinect? Or will they not sell the Xbone in the country? If the prior, what's to stop non-German customers from obtaining the same model?
Internet. You have to connect to internet to check in with mom MS every so often. If it detects your connecting from non-germany location with a germany-based model, it refuse to work.
Last I heard, the EU wanted to ban this kind of region locking.


Strazdas said:
omega 616 said:
If for some reason I end up with one of these, I would just cover it ... like cover the front in tape, put a teeny box over it, make it face the ground, wrap a towel round it ... something!
as soon as you do that the console freezes and you get error message: kinect unit is not functioning properly.
Sounds likely. But the thing runs Windows NT 6, so we'll likely not have a problem removing the Kinect requirement through either a registry or activation system hack.
 

AlwaysPractical

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As mentioned in the edit, his comment:
"Dass Microsoft jetzt mein Wohnzimmer ausspioniert, ist bloß eine verdrehte Horrorvision."
means: the idea that Microsoft will spy on me in my living room is just an absurd, horrifying vision.

Was expecting this to crop up soon. Will be interested in what follows.