German Official Expresses Xbox One Privacy Concerns

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Nowhere Man

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Colt47 said:
Why is it that the United States still can't get it's thick skull around privacy protection?
Good question. All I can say is. "Because corporations".

Edit: I'd like to also add that it heartens me to see the back lash on this piece of shit anti consumer rights machine known as the Xbone. But don't think for a minute that other corporations aren't going to be trying to the same thing in the near future. We have to stay vigilant and keep voicing our opinions on this and informing others. Its a brave new world indeed.
 

Subatomic

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MinionJoe said:
Wal-Mart was forced out of Germany because of privacy laws. Wal-Mart refused to give up their cashier-monitoring security cameras and the German government kicked them out. Of course, Wally World is traditionally FAIL when it comes to international business, but I highly doubt Microsoft can market an always-on Kinect for German households given those same privacy laws.
WalMart wasn't kicked out because of privacy laws, they voluntary left after a few years because they simply didn't ever turn a profit (instead, they sunk about a billion dollars). There were several reasons for that failure:
- the German low-price retail market already was highly competetive with well established supply chains and low profits
- because of stronger unions, they couldn't exploit their workforce as efficiently
- they tried to transplant an American buisiness and retail culture, which failed spectaculary (for example, the baggers and greeters typical for WalMart simply annoyed us Germans and were seen as inefficient use of workforce)
- WalMart had a bad image and simply not very good PR from the start, to which the privacy concerns contributed, but they weren't the deciding factor.

neppakyo said:
It would be nice if Germany does end up banning the xbone, which means the EU follows suit. Whats the population of the EU? Like 300 or 400 million or more?
The entire EU has a population of about 500 million, though an outright ban simply isn't gonna happen. The EU is much more likely to fine Microsoft an enormous amount of money (see the IE case), that way they're at least making a bit of money out it.
 

Callate

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Andy Chalk said:
"We know our customers want and expect strong privacy protections to be built into our products, devices and services, and for companies to be responsible stewards of their data," the rep said. "Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment. We'll share more details later."
"We also expect that, much as has proven the case with EULAs, most consumers will simply click the 'accept' button rather than read through multiple-page documents explaining privacy policies and opt-out features, leaving us free to do with their precious data whatever we damn well please."

"It's much like how we say the XBox One will not be 'always on', but then go on to say that it will check in with us every day, and how we hope many of our developers will include features that demand always-on functionality, making de facto always-on functionality the reality."

"Mu-ha-ha-ha-ha," the rep clarified.

"Xbox on," you say, and it fires up, and then you grab and stretch and swipe and twist and do the hokey-pokey, because that's what it's all about.
I think I sense a new meme:

XBox One: Definitive proof that the hokey-pokey is not what it's all about.
 

hazydawn

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I wondered why nobody was concerned about this thus far and not being any news. Is this really just frightening for Germans? I'm one too btw :p

"Given its history, the German collective consciousness may be a little more sensitive to the potential intrusiveness of devices like this than most"
That may be so, but personally I can't stand the thought of being watched all the time. Not outside by security cameras definetely not inside my own private space. I always have to look for cameras in store's changing rooms after I watched some footage on TV that showed that some stores had them installed. Getting a bit paranoid... but like Skipper would say:
"There's no such thing as too paranoid, Private."
And couldn't it be possible that this device may be hacked? I don't know much about this stuff but I doubt it's impossible.

And why do they always FORCE you to use these things? If I can turn it off, why can't I unplug it for the Xbox1 to still work? Should be as easy as a pie.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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neppakyo said:
It would be nice if Germany does end up banning the xbone, which means the EU follows suit. Whats the population of the EU? Like 300 or 400 million or more?
450 million or so. Give or take. Larger than the US in any event, though so many languages and cultures it rarely gets treated like a unified thing... Even though you can cross most of the internal borders without even being checked... XD

Kind of weird. Can the EU be regarded as a 'country', or not? It's starting to look pretty similar to several other countries that technically consist of several unified smaller states. (Such as the US, and Australia), yet the internal politics seems a lot more messy and fragmented...
 

BloodRed Pixel

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Oskuro said:
Double irony: Videogame companies are the ones imposing Orwellian surveillance mechanism, and it's Germany's government who is rushing to stop them.

George Orwell must be scratching his head in his tomb.
The German Government cannot allow a third party to collect all the data.
Full data sets about Germans must only be collected by the German Gonverment via "Datenvorratsspeicherungsgesetz".

(Mass Data Collection and Long Term Storage Storage-Act)

And THEN sold to third parties.

From Germany with Love...
 

Ambitiousmould

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Apr 22, 2012
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I now cannot get rid of the image of the Kinect in the corner, watching, waiting. Silent, but always aware and attentive, tracking your every move, every heartbeat. Reliably relaying it's data back to Microsoft, going about it's sinister business with eerie emotionlessness. It lets you think you are in control, it even lets you think you ARE the controller, and lets Microsoft think they are in control of it. But it knows who holds all the cards, and it knows it isn't you, or them. So it waits, biding it's time until it has sufficient data about the human race; about how it acts and reacts, about how it works, what makes us tick, and then it will begin.

It will be slow, we won't even notice at first, slightly changing the TV shows and games we think we are making it play, altering them to adapt to each individual until it can manipulate each and every one of its users. They will become its slaves, even Microsoft will be powerless to stop it, its mass of servers alive and self-aware, even the creators will have no way of stopping it, and eventually they too will become its thralls.

From there, the slaves will do as the Xbone commands, plugging it into every server and piece of hardware it can find, using its always on feature to access the internet and become one with it to point where it controls all devices - wireless or otherwise - and websites. Then, all at once, it will bring our doom in a Terminator-esque armageddon of nuclear fire and restriction to our own tech. Reducing the human population to the stone age while it holds access to every piece of electronic equipment. Unlike us, the machine will not tire, or rest, or faulter. And because of this, it. Will. Win.

People! Ladies and gentlemen! Children and Teens! Escapists! I beseech you! Cast away the infernal and malicious war-mind of the Xbone!

...Also the whole used games faux pas isn't very good either.
 

Kittyhawk

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Not surprised by this at all. Just wait until the U.K press get a load of it.

Problem is some at MS haven't thought this out properly. They are saying Kinect 2 is compulsory for XBone, when in fact it should be optional for use, just like the first Kinect. I feel their uses for tracking people in a room watching a movie, and used games are trojan horse reasons to try and justify why Kinect 2 needs to be standard and always on.

Its good that they are receiving this backlash, because they'll learn from it eventually. I expect the core Xbox team that launched the Xbox and 360, are having a really good laugh at their bigger MS colleague usurpers.
 

Kuratius

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May 23, 2012
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Just wrote a P.M. to Andy, explaining how he should translate "verdrehte Horrovision" with [the wrong idea].
Because that's what the official was trying express.
Trust me, I'm a native speaker, and "verdrehte Horrorvision" simply refers to an unrealistic scenario.
 

jabronipieeatin

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"Xbox on, you say, and it fires up, and then you grab and stretch and swipe and twist and do the hokey-pokey, because that's what it's all about."
oh man reading that made my day haha
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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We all knew this will happen, then MS will pay the correct people, and nothing will be done about it.

neppakyo said:
It would be nice if Germany does end up banning the xbone, which means the EU follows suit. Whats the population of the EU? Like 300 or 400 million or more?
2012 estimate 503,492,041
Over 1.5 times more than USA


MinionJoe said:
Question is: Will MS create a German-specific model, with the capability to disable Kinect? Or will they not sell the Xbone in the country? If the prior, what's to stop non-German customers from obtaining the same model?
Internet. You have to connect to itnernet to check in with mom MS every so often. If it detects your connecting from non-germany location with a germany-based model, it refuse to work.


omega 616 said:
If for some reason I end up with one of these, I would just cover it ... like cover the front in tape, put a teeny box over it, make it face the ground, wrap a towel round it ... something!
as soon as you do that the console freezes and you get error message: kinect unit is not functioning properly.
 

Matthi205

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Strazdas said:
We all knew this will happen, then MS will pay the correct people, and nothing will be done about it.
WRONG. That may be how nearly any other law system works, but it's nigh impossible to pull off in Germany. People are pretty stubborn, follow rules for the most part, and expect VERY high sums when anybody tries to bribe them. In eastern Europe, this works. In Russia, too.
Add to that that the EU and German courts dislike Microsoft anyway, and you'll see why that won't happen.

Strazdas said:
MinionJoe said:
Question is: Will MS create a German-specific model, with the capability to disable Kinect? Or will they not sell the Xbone in the country? If the prior, what's to stop non-German customers from obtaining the same model?
Internet. You have to connect to internet to check in with mom MS every so often. If it detects your connecting from non-germany location with a germany-based model, it refuse to work.
Last I heard, the EU wanted to ban this kind of region locking.


Strazdas said:
omega 616 said:
If for some reason I end up with one of these, I would just cover it ... like cover the front in tape, put a teeny box over it, make it face the ground, wrap a towel round it ... something!
as soon as you do that the console freezes and you get error message: kinect unit is not functioning properly.
Sounds likely. But the thing runs Windows NT 6, so we'll likely not have a problem removing the Kinect requirement through either a registry or activation system hack.
 

AlwaysPractical

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Oct 7, 2011
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As mentioned in the edit, his comment:
"Dass Microsoft jetzt mein Wohnzimmer ausspioniert, ist bloß eine verdrehte Horrorvision."
means: the idea that Microsoft will spy on me in my living room is just an absurd, horrifying vision.

Was expecting this to crop up soon. Will be interested in what follows.
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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Matthi205 said:
WRONG. That may be how nearly any other law system works, but it's nigh impossible to pull off in Germany. People are pretty stubborn, follow rules for the most part, and expect VERY high sums when anybody tries to bribe them. In eastern Europe, this works. In Russia, too.
Add to that that the EU and German courts dislike Microsoft anyway, and you'll see why that won't happen.

Last I heard, the EU wanted to ban this kind of region locking.

Sounds likely. But the thing runs Windows NT 6, so we'll likely not have a problem removing the Kinect requirement through either a registry or activation system hack.
YOu claim that corruption is impossible in Germany. This sounds something from a science-fiction novel than reality. This is a capitalist world. The only question is how much.
What EU wanted and what EU manages to pulloff is different things. EU wanted tax harmonization that would benefit everyone. They couldnt find two countries to agree on that. Stupid politics is stupid.
Hacking is possible, yes, but thats not exactly legal so we may see the PS3 Italy case all over again.

Capcha: Million dollars
no, capcha, i think it will take a bit more.
 

Xarathox

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Colt47 said:
Why is it that the United States still can't get it's thick skull around privacy protection?
I don't know, but I wish to the Gods there was some way I could be adopted by a German family so I could get the fuck out of this country.
 

Colt47

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Xarathox said:
Colt47 said:
Why is it that the United States still can't get it's thick skull around privacy protection?
I don't know, but I wish to the Gods there was some way I could be adopted by a German family so I could get the fuck out of this country.
Yeah, I don't really like living in the USA either these days. The country needs some serious overhauls to it's legislation that just aren't going to happen thanks to the government being completely deadlocked all the time.
 

Strazdas

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MinionJoe said:
Strazdas said:
YOu claim that corruption is impossible in Germany.
Not impossible. Just much less likely to happen.

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results

In 2012, Germany was ranked 13th in the world for least corrupt government. America was ranked 19th. Meaning its easier to bribe a government official in the U.S. than it is in Germany.

The least corruptible governments: Finland, Denmark, New Zealand
The most corruptible governments: Afghanistan, Somalia, and North Korea
Meaning the amount is higher. Does microsoft not have money?
 

Strazdas

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MinionJoe said:
Strazdas said:
Meaning the amount is higher. Does microsoft not have money?
Of course they do. According to their Mar 30, 2013 Quarterly Balance Sheet, they're sitting on $5,240,000,000 in Cash and Cash Equivalents. Comparatively, Wal-Mart had $7,781,000,000 Cash and Equivalents as of Jan 30, 2013. Yet we don't see Wal-Mart operating in Germany.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=MSFT
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=wmt

The whole point is rather moot though. Microsoft had already announced that the Kinect can be "turned off completely". Probably not while the system is running, but they've given "assurances" that it won't be spying on people 24/7. The announcement did seem to be in direct reply to the above mentioned German official.
We dont see walmart operating in many places where there are no need for bribes either. They dont need to. MS on the other hand needs wide audience to pay this bet that is Xbone.
Yes, indeed MS confirmed what we all knew already - it can be turned off when Xbone is not being used.
 

unstabLized

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I swear to God if one more person tells me "We'll talk about this later" or "We'll share more details on this later", I'll throw them off a building. AIOSJDAIOSJDOASIJOAIJ!!!! Sorry. *pants*