Germany embassy in Sudan stormed

[Sansha]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Exactly. Yes, you can make an anti-Islamic movie, calling out an entire religion for being primitive and detrimental to society - but that doesn't mean you SHOULD.

You don't insult other people's religions. You just don't. There's absolutely no excuse for the movie, it's despicable and I'm fuckin' tired of 'artists' and film-makers saying they can get away with it because they're protected by free speech. Which they are, but that doesn't make it a good idea, especially when you're only doing it either out of spite and ignorance, or just for attention and fame.

Hate begets hate.

 

[ironkex]

Guys,if anyone can remember the reason for WW1 this movie is just a spark to start the fire not more...People are not so bright so the religious goverment is using them to do some damage and turn your eyes on them untill one very ....uhmm not nice country finishes its nukes

 

[BNguyen]

Yes he can be. Manslaughter is a valid charge, then you can add in so many other things on him as well.

So now we're responsible for the actions of others?

You really want to create a world where you're responsible for how other people react to you're opinion?

By that reasoning someone could read one of your thread posts, kill a bunch of people because of it, and it's your fault not theirs, with you being punished.

Edit to my posts before: Never mind, realizing now that the video was released in june this was obviously a concentrated effort, making my opinion a stupid post.

And no, your misunderstanding me, we can't punish the people directly responsible because we don't KNOW who did it. your example holds no merit to my line of thinking which your trying to disprove, but i never fully explained my line of thinking so its understandable your response was not as well thought. Good point though, just wrong mindset.

so basically, if someone does something that indirectly leads to others conducting violence in the name of the first person's action, then go into hiding and the cops can't find them after a while, we have to go back to the first person and give them the punishment we were going to give to those who incited violence. makes perfect sense to me

 

[Mr.BadExample]

Without YouTube the movie would have remained obscure enough not to cause any problems. Line up the executives in front of a firing squad.

 

[Giftfromme]

Without YouTube the movie would have remained obscure enough not to cause any problems. Line up the executives in front of a firing squad.

Really, Youtube is the Devil in this scenario when you think about it. And I have. If those Devils didn't make Youtube, or maintain it, there would be no violence. I am never watching a youtube video again in protest of this evil

 

[jebara]

Well fuck, looks like the United States isn't alone in this one. I have absolutely no idea why, but apparently the German embassy in Sudan was stormed because of that anti-Islamic movie that pissed so many people off.
http://news.yahoo.com/sudan-protesters-storm-german-embassy-raise-islamic-flag-124438100.html

We really do live in a hate filled world, don't we? Incidentally, I wonder how that guy who made this movie feels knowing that he's a key part of this mess. Oh, and by the way I learned an interesting piece of trivia. Remember that guy who wanted to organize a massive burning of Quarns? It's the exact same guy...lovely.

Pardon me for just reading the first page or so and jumping in the conversation but it sounds to me that your mainly blaming the movie maker for this saying that he is responsible for all this.
But I have to say it was the protester's actions that made it the mess that it is, saying it was the movie makers fault for provoking them is like saying that these people are complete savage animals that are unable to think or be responsible for their actions and react mindlessly.

But these are humans,which in my mind makes them completely responsible for what happened,I don't blame the movie maker at all.

 

[NotALiberal]

SNIP

This means "kill apostates". Not "attack countries that insult Islam". With this verse, neither you nor I are in any danger from a dedicated Muslim.

See, that's where you're wrong. We are "apostates". Had an alcoholic beverage recently? Had premarital sex? Those are "apostasy" as defined by Islam.

 

[Smeatza]

Somebody insulted my religion?
Well I guess I better forget all it's teachings then, and re-enforce every criticism of my religion that exists.

Y'know if it rained every once in a while in these countries they might not be so angry all the time.

 

[Sniper_Zegai]

Somebody insulted my religion?
Well I guess I better forget all it's teachings then, and re-enforce every criticism of my religion that exists.

Y'know if it rained every once in a while in these countries they might not be so angry all the time.

I hate to be that douche but Islam is not a peaceful religion, these people are following the general order of the Prophet (or should I say the original people who wrote the Quran and Hadith) that anyone who actively speaks out against the religion should be punished, the punishment itself varies but there is no "turn the other cheek" style passage in Islam.

 

[Mau95]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Dude. They depict one of their most important historic and religious figures as an adulterer, pedophile, wifebeater and murderer. They have a right to be angry, even if their actions are over the top.

"in the air"

 

[Sniper_Zegai]

Dude. They depict one of their most important historic and religious figures as an adulterer, pedophile, wifebeater and murderer. They have a right to be angry, even if their actions are over the top.

"in the air"

Well to be fair . . . he is. Even by the accounts of the Hadith which is basically a biography of his life written by his most dedicated followers. He was a paedophile, wife-beater and murderer not to mention a warmonger, opportunist and very likely a schizophrenic. They have every right to be offended if they choose but that does not give them license to murder people, I'm offended by what they have done but I don't think I will take a torch to a mosque in protest. If anything they prove the points made against them, Islam teaches people to ignore criticism in favour of being reactionary and violent as we can clearly see by these riots.

 

[Friendly Lich]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

The constitution doesn't apply in other countries, you're a bit national-centric.

 

[BoTTeNBReKeR]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

This is not a consequence. This is a violent mob response to an "offensive" video (from a group who get murderous if you even DRAW He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Insulted). This is an American making a (poorly-produced) protected statement, and being thrown to the wolves in order to appease those same wolves.
In essence, the US is saying "These people's request that you not insult Islam matters more to us than your freedom of speech or expression."

Dude. They depict one of their most important historic and religious figures as an adulterer, pedophile, wifebeater and murderer. They have a right to be angry, even if their actions are over the top.

"in the air"

While I do find the video in question to be particularly vile and unappropriate, most of those things you just mentioned probably did happen. Look up how Mohammed spreaded his religion, it wasn't through peaceful means. It's also pretty likely he married a 6 year old girl and I believe there's a verse in the Koran where Mohammed decapitates Jews.

 

[Altaria87]

Snip

Yep, I hate shit like this too. It will never end until one of two things happen, one shitty and one likely impossible:

1)No films are allowed based on Muslims. Meaning the terrorists win, and free speech has taken a hit to the balls.
2)All radical Muslims either die down or simply stop being radical, the Muslims who protest learn to not get offended and stop causing shit because of it. Which will most likely never happen. Islam sadly has the largest amount of extremists in ANY religion, which just saddens me because normal Muslims are fine people.

Maybe a couple hundred years down the line they'll die out, you don't really hear about modern Christians starting crusades and inquisitions. At least I freaking hope so.

No, instead we get Christian extremists killing abortion doctors and lobbying to rpevent homosexuals to have equal rights. All religions have their grotesque fundamentalists and deviants, don't presume that yours is any different.

 

[DazBurger]

Probably jealousy.
You know... Germany is the only country to really live out the arab fantasy about jews.
/troll

(-Totally out of context snip.) Plus, burning flags is incredibly disrespectful.

Well, burning the danish flag is actually the correct way to dispose of it.
Imagine the laughs we had under the "Muhammed-drawing crisis."

 

[DazBurger]

double

 

[Paradoxrifts]

What bothers me is the US government's noncommittal response. By not defending our citizens actions (no matter if we personally agree or not), we are abandoning the freedoms laid forth in our constitution. If citizens of another nation can silence American citizens by protest, violence, and murder, then all that America stands for is truly dead.

Free Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences.

Exactly. Yes, you can make an anti-Islamic movie, calling out an entire religion for being primitive and detrimental to society - but that doesn't mean you SHOULD.

You don't insult other people's religions. You just don't. There's absolutely no excuse for the movie, it's despicable and I'm fuckin' tired of 'artists' and film-makers saying they can get away with it because they're protected by free speech. Which they are, but that doesn't make it a good idea, especially when you're only doing it either out of spite and ignorance, or just for attention and fame.

Hate begets hate.

No, they'd still be hating, and why wouldn't they?

The unrest is fueled by a generation of young Muslim men who are growing up in a global world that affords them precious little opportunity due to circumstances largely beyond their control, and they have access to none of the modern diversions that would otherwise make such a plight bearable. Their growing Ressentiment of their situation has been artificially channeled by their ruling elites through the patronage of the Islamic clergy towards the Western world very much like a rickety unstable pressure valve. A situation that only exists because the modern global economy depends on the continued supply of oil sucked out of the reserves buried underneath the Middle East. And even if they should try to travel abroad, the vile propaganda extolled by oil-financed Wahhabism will chase them to any corner of the earth they travel to, resulting in unfair treatment and discrimination.

So, it's a little more complicated than that.

 

[Insomniac55]

To refer back to my bear analogy...

If you know a particular group reacts violently to specific behaviour, then don't be surprised when they react violently when you commit that behaviour.

While I can certainly see where you're coming from... I still sit on the other side of the fence, at least to an extent. When an unjustified barrier on freedom is in place, it is not right to simply accept it. It must be removed.

How to do this, I don't know. When a group (religious or otherwise) has a problem with something they find offensive (barring downright malicious hate towards them, which is understandably illegal), the best course of action is to ignore their requests. Consider the problem some Hindus have with the game Smite. Yes, they're offended but their offence can't be allowed to govern the lives of others. They have every right to demand their deities be removed, and everyone else has every right to ignore their request.

Obviously the situation gets tougher when the reaction isn't simple protesting and demand for censorship, but is rather violence and murder. I wouldn't go into the Middle East and do something offensive to Islam, simply for self preservation. That does NOT mean the blame should be shifted to me, should I go and do so and then suffer the consequences.

This violence has no justification.