Get Back Up

[lowlymarine]

I'm glad to see someone actually taking a reasonable approach to this. This whole situation is ridiculous.

Hey guys, remember at the end of FEAR 2 where Beckett gets fairly graphically raped by Alma, both physically and mentally, while you're controlling him no less? And do you remember the massive manufactured outrage over that? Oh, there was no outrage? Right, I wonder what the key difference there could have been.

 

[JediMB]

Agree pretty much wholeheartedly with what Arendt wrote, and I believe I have posted more or less the same opinions in fewer words here on the forums. Both that I believe in the new Lara, and that Rosenberg's comments on the subject were pretty damn terrible.

I still have hope that the remade Lara Croft can become a modern Ellen Ripley of sorts. And that the game will come with some fresh new gameplay for the franchise.

 

[Sixcess]

I've never been a big Lara Croft fan, so I was wondering if you could explain which direction it should have gone in in updating/giving Lara 's/a character?

I'm not sure, but it would definitely have involved shooting dinosaurs.

*cough*

Okay, maybe not.

More seriously, I'd have played up the supernatural/horror aspects. If you want to make a young and inexperienced Lara afraid of something then make her afraid of undead spirits, or monsters, not sweaty dudes with guns. Play it slow at first, with an emphasis on atmosphere, exploration, puzzle solving. In fact if I was doing the reboot I'd likely have few or no human enemies - the prevalence of them in the later games of the series was arguably when it started to lose direction.

So... quick pitch: Lara gets shipwrecked on an uncharted (no pun intended) island. She's salvaged a shortwave radio and manages to communicate with someone on the other side of the island. It's not clear who they are but they say they can help her - if she can get to them, because they can't come to her. It sets up a nice mystery for later on, and in the meantime she's got people to talk to, to show character development (and provide exposition.)

The beach where she's landed is surrounded on all sides by unscalable cliffs. The people on the radio tell her that the island is riddled with ancient catacombs built god knows when by god knows who. If she wants to get up the cliffs, and across the island she will have to enter those catacombs, and they are huge - the entire island being the centre of some long forgotten death cult. Essentially she's shipwrecked on R'yleh. Not literally of course, but in the general feel of it.

Etc etc. Just my idea.

Edit: all of which is a long way of saying I have nothing in theory against the character arc that's apparently being plotted out, but I do not like the tone in which it's being done, as it's all too gritty and real for Tomb Raider.

And this is just that again, if every gain has these fantasy badass tanks, why not have someone who actually struggles and has setbacks? And if Lara Croft was a women in a sea of macho-thugs why not capitalise on that and show that the weakness can be more interesting than Alpha Male strength?

It's very true that the needs of gameplay have almost always led to the jarring disconnect between the character you see in the cutscenes and the character you play in the game. As Ross Scott of Freeman's Mind said, realistically the only way Gordon could survive the story of Half Life is if he was a paranoid homicidal sociopath, because normal people don't adapt that quickly to gunning down dozens of people.

There's nothing inherently wrong with playing with an audience's perceptions of a well known character, but only if there's a good pay off at the end. I'd cite Casino Royale as a good example in that they played with the expectations of Bond fans throughout the film, but then delivered an absolutely knockout ending that kept true to the character without diminishing the changes that were made to bring him up to date.

I just don't think CD have the skill to pull something like that off, and the relentless emphasis being placed on Lara's vulnerability in everything we see and everything they say does not reassure me one bit.

 

[Grey Knight]

I agree with most of the piece, but this part sticks in my throat a bit.

I understand why people are troubled by the trailer - watching a young girl in pain is difficult. It should be difficult. You're not supposed to see a girl get impaled and think "Hell, yeah, that's cool!" - though there are certainly people out there doing just that. If you feel uncomfortable watching scenes of Lara in peril, that doesn't mean the trailer is foul, it means that you're a decent human being who doesn't like to watch suffering.

Right after this:

Their ire was fueled when Ron Rosenberg, the game's executive producer, made some pretty dumb comments about players not identifying with Lara, instead wanting to "protect her." Rosenberg came off sounding like a condescending chauvinist who doesn't understand the first thing about the player's relationship with Lara

You're right, Lara is a young girl, and it is uncomfortable to watch her in the situations portrayed. In fact, I think it's safe to say that many people who don't fall into the "Hell, yeah, that's cool!" crowd would want to protect a young girl from just that kind of situation. It's not chauvinistic when basic human instinct kicks in to protect a young person. Saying that somebody is chauvinistic or dumb to want to protect a young girl is tantamount to endorsing the "Hell, yeah, that's cool!" crowd. Like stated, a decent person isn't going to want to see another person suffer. You can relate and sympathize at the same time.

 

[Alpha Maeko]

She triumphed over adversity by escaping said implied 'rape', yet everyone's still white-knighting their way towards the armory.

A bad person in the far reaches of jungley-nowhere has a female prisoner who was just caught trying to escape. What do you think was going to happen? Him giving her a cookie? She's attractive, vulnerable, and he's obviously taken an interest.

Rape is unacceptable in the real world, but that doesn't mean we should shun any idea out of principal just because we don't like it. If that were the case, no one should be killing each other in video games, either.

 

[Grayston245]

I could practically feel the feminist preaching pouring from your words from about the third paragraph on. You don't need to give me a sermon on a subject like that - the "strong-willed, confident woman" model isn't exactly a new concept in today's world. It might be more so on the Internet or in video games, but that's mostly because one bad apple/sexist that thinks he's writing a '50s movie spoils it for the rest, usually on 4chan, reddit, or in YouTube comments. :/

Regardless, I see the points you're making, and the article as a whole has a good point, as far as the trailer is concerned. It made me feel better about the fact that I, too, was a little disgusted by some of the situations the trailer showed off. I'm kinda squeamish about blood and all that stuff to begin with (yeah, and I play main-stream video games, go figure), so knowing that lots of people most likely felt that way makes me relax a bit. I didn't read Rosenberg's comments on the fans' reactions to the trailer, but from the impression that I got here, there's really no excuse for that sort of behavior.

I might end up picking up this reboot (probably after a price drop or something), but I doubt I'll ever be able to play it without feeling a little uneasy with it. I doubt it'll be because of Lara's injuries, though. By this point, I'm used to the fact that video game characters (in particular, the protagonists) will be in some form of danger down the line, and they can't exactly get out of those situations without a scratch on them. There'll be some blood, there'll be some injuries, and people will die. That's practically a given here.

Where my concern lies is in the fact that Rule 34 will apply, and in the back of my head, I'll know that someone, somewhere, is getting off to the fact that Lara's in pain. The fact that I even have any concern for something like that probably means that humanity has failed, but I think that most of us can agree that we don't want this reboot to be encouraging to the sick-minded tendencies of society's future sexists, or worse, future rapists.

So like I said, good article, good points. It doesn't really help me with the wariness I described above, but if the game's psychological mood and cinematic quality are executed well, I'll probably be able to put that thought out of my mind...for a time, at least.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

I certainly wasn't put off by the tone of the trailer, quite the opposite in fact. However, if there is one thing at this stage that I fear will get in the way of a more 'human' Lara, it's her bloody voice acting. It just comes off in the trailer as so... shrill, and whiny. Granted, she has pretty damn good reason to whine for most of it, but what I'm sure is supposed to be a desperate, harrowing tone that helps us sympathise with her just comes off as annoying, and rather ditzy too.

For example: In the part where she shoots the deer the "I'm sorry" that she exclaims just before she takes the shot with the bow comes off as so forced and more than a little stupid. Even if you are, like this version of Lara, totally out of your depth and traumatised, if you're forced into a situation where you need to hunt wild animals to survive then you wouldn't say that. It's a necessity, and at that point you'd probably be so hungry that actually, your instincts wouldn't allow you to be sorry. Even if you were, you wouldn't say it, out loud, when you're just meters away from your prey that will run away if it gets spooked, especially if you're not an expert with a bow and getting the shot just right will require all your focus and the total element of surprise.

I'm not saying this from the perspective of some expert hunter or survival specialist, but this really isn't rocket science. There's a fine line between being vulnerable, and just being dim.

 

[Woodsey]

Rosenberg came off sounding like a condescending chauvinist who doesn't understand the first thing about the player's relationship with Lara.

Actually, I think the guy sounds like someone who completely understands a male player's relationship with a completely inexperienced, 21-year-old female character who they are playing as in the third-person. And that 'relationship' is one in which you are very much aware of the character (as opposed to being immersed in them), want to have the power to remove the character from horrific situations, and are then granted said power.

And that's then amplified by the fact that, as a man, I have never felt like I've been sexually-harassed. Not once, and I suspect that on the whole, the majority of guys feel that too - the number of women who will feel that way will likely be less. In a rape scene where a guy is attacking a woman, it means my focus is in fact on the rapist, not the victim; my response is "get the fuck off her!", not one of feeling relatable to the victim in that situation. It's the subtle but, I think, distinct difference between 'he's raping her' and 'she's being raped by him'. And that's where the protection angle comes in when it comes to guys relating to female characters.

(Thinking about it, this could probably spin into a lengthy discussion about creating character-development when the character is technically not the one controlling a lot of their actions.)

I think the true intent of his comments can be seen when he talks about 'rooting for Lara', the idea that you're willing her on and engaging that 'protectionist' side of things as a way of developing empathy and engaging with the character's struggle. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that men and women will react differently to characters of the opposite sex, even if they still end up feeling empathy for them.

I can see how Rosenberg's comments can be construed as sexist (although I seriously question how much the article has done to spice things up a little), but I think that if you sit back and think about everything from what we know of what the game's wanting to do, to the way that article is written, it's far clearer as to what the guy's getting at. Likewise, I think the 'help' comment is referencing the fact that you are a player who is playing the game - you are involved in the struggles of the character, and since you aren't under the impression that you are the character (because of gender and camera-view), you're therefore an outside force.

Anyway, the rest of your piece, I pretty much agree with. If we criticise developers for including elements before we've even seen them within the context of the full game, then you may as well say games are for kids, and that they're not allowed to be as mature as films or novels.

If, when the game comes out, it turns out that Lara's even more 2-dimensional than before (... personality-wise) and that the game is simply a constant onslaught of being overpowered by men and having the living shit beaten out of her non-stop, then there'll be something to complain about.

I think this whole thing has been spurned on by the two other recent (although in their cases, legitimate) issues pertaining to women in gaming - the dreadful Hitman trailer, and the reaction to the documentary Kickstarter - and people have perhaps become a little caught up in the commotion.

 

[Farther than stars]

Of course there's also the fact that we've gotten used to the original version of Laura, having her be so helpless feels like a betrayal of the character herself.

A valid point, but in my opinion this Lara seems like a far cooler character than her future self. They seem to have humanized her a lot in the sense that she seems more approachable. Also, it's "Lara"... "LARA", drop the "U".

 

[Lyri]

Get Back Up

Another way to look at the controversial Tomb Raider trailer.

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I agree so much with this article, although there is one point that I don't and that is the point about if you don't feel emotions for her then you're not a decent human being. Perhaps I am in the minority here but I watched the trailer and I never looked at Lara as in trouble like that, I have separated what is real and what is fiction and I didn't feel any sympathy for her.
Does that make me a bad human being?

I do however feel quite compelled when I see her getting up every time, it's a strange reversal from no concern of the injury but I want to applaud as it goes on and on.
I think part of me finds the lack of perfection appealing, frankly I'm sick of video games who have their heroes in dire straights and they don't look worse for wear at all. The image of Lara falling down a cliff took me aback for a second, I thought to myself that had this been the old TR then she would have been sliding down that gradient instead of tumbling.
To me this is trailer is more inspiring than anything I have ever seen from the video games industry, Lara is human.

 

[Vault101]

Get Back Up

Another way to look at the controversial Tomb Raider trailer.

Read Full Article

YES!!!! somone [i/]gets it[/i]

seeing a charachters struggles is what makes us give a crap...which is somthing I really liked in ME3 where Femshep really was under preasure

and as for that "rape scene" I think people were over reacting..as if it was somthing from "girl with the dragon tatoo" but all it was, was a few seconds of implication, and in that situation of coarse its a possibility

 

[Vault101]

This should have been a new IP

I don't think theres anything wrong with putting a new spin on a charachter or IP, somtimes it can be just the thing thats needed

and in this case...I think a "female protagonist we can empathise with" would have had a better shot with an established IP..since as we know AAA is so adverse to taking risks

 

[Farther than stars]

Rape is unacceptable in the real world, but that doesn't mean we should shun any idea out of principal just because we don't like it. If that were the case, no one should be killing each other in video games, either.

There's two sides to this hypocrisy. You could ask: "why is this the case for one fenoly and not the other?", or you could stay quiet and we might consider ourselves lucky that this subject matter is not used as blithely in fiction as the act of killing is.

P.S. I'd consider rewording: "Rape is unacceptable in the real world, but that doesn't mean we should shun any idea out of principal just because we don't like it." The meaning of this sentence is rather ambiguous.

 

[Squilookle]

In the end it stops being brave or exciting or virtuous to see badass videogame protagonists survive yet another explosion, yet another helicopter crash landing. All it means is that in those universes, explosions don't mean much, conflict doesn't mean much, pain doesn't mean much. They're not tough, because being tough means that there is some genuine struggle going on there.

See, that's kind of my problem with it- in the trailers it's just one horrible near death experience after another, Lara being put through the shredder constantly with nary a moment's pause for breath in between. She actually get's minced around so much that my suspension of belief is stretched too far. It gets to the point where she just shouldn't be able to get up, and I don't mean because of her sex- I mean any human being would be dead after that.

Don't you see? Lara's moments of falling, scraping, dangling, impaling... they ARE the explosions, the helicopter crashes. They fulfil the exact same role, and their frequency makes them every bit as meaningless as any other barely survived explosion/chopper crash in other games, because she will always survive, she will always get up again.

It gets to the point where it just seems like the game is actively just trying to torture Lara for the audience's benefit, and it doesn't make me connect more with a character to see her survive situations that would kill any human being- it just reminds me that it's a game, and one that almost relishes in putting it's main character through a mincer nobody should survive.

reads to me like 'let's torture Lara' is going to be the running theme for most of this game.

Yeah, basically this.


-Also, if you want to talk cliches, it was pretty stupid when she fell into that plane wreck because -naturally- it's Japanese, as we would never see any American plane wrecks in a game set in the Pacific since none were shot down, but also because if it were Japanese, it wouldn't have parachutes in it, would it?

 

[tmande2nd]

You know I kind of identify MORE with protagonists who say "OWWWW" and get the tar beat out of them.

Case in point when watching one of the SG1 movies and Cameron Mitchell lets out a long and pathetic "Oooooowwwwwwwwwwwwww" after getting beaten up...that really resonates with you.

I like the new James Bond because he takes hits, get beaten up, but he keeps pushing through even in pain.
You know its telling that people have this double standard in some sense.

You can show a guy getting the hell beat out of him, and most people dont care.
You show a WOMAN getting beaten up and people throw a fit.

I feel more for a protagonist who gets cut, bloody, falls over, and shows pain them a protagonist who can saunter through a battle field unfazed.
Like in ME2..when Joker was saying "SHIT SHIT SHIT WHAT THE SHIT!" that is what I would have been saying too.

 

[Vault101]

For example: In the part where she shoots the deer the "I'm sorry" that she exclaims just before she takes the shot with the bow comes off as so forced and more than a little stupid. Even if you are, like this version of Lara, totally out of your depth and traumatised, if you're forced into a situation where you need to hunt wild animals to survive then you wouldn't say that. It's a necessity, and at that point you'd probably be so hungry that actually, your instincts wouldn't allow you to be sorry. Even if you were, you wouldn't say it, out loud, when you're just meters away from your prey that will run away if it gets spooked, especially if you're not an expert with a bow and getting the shot just right will require all your focus and the total element of surprise.
.

1. its jsut the trailer...not the full game yet

2. I think your REALLY reading into that way too much,

but...if I am going to aruge....people do all kind of funny things in different situations....in this case I don't see it as a case of "NOOOO! I had to kill a deer! *sob*" but more kind of "I don't want to do this but I have too" not just killing the deer but also because its become a survival situation

its like when I kill a big hairy spider...theres no doubt that ************ is going down (be it with spray or a heavy book) but then I feel kind of bad that I had to kill this thing just because I'm a little squeaminish

as for the realism with the hunting...its a game..you have to cut it some slack

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I watched the trailer just now, and I didn't get anything remotely close to the "rape vibe" from any of it. I saw a guy try to grab her, presumably to push or knock her down.

But, yeah, I have to agree. This outrage seems manufactured simply because; Its a girl, who's tied up and at the mercy of a man with a gun.

Hey guys, remember at the end of FEAR 2 where Beckett gets fairly graphically raped by Alma, both physically and mentally, while you're controlling him no less? And do you remember the massive manufactured outrage over that? Oh, there was no outrage? Right, I wonder what the key difference there could have been.

I think that, despite all the advances, women are still seen as the weaker sex. And I don't think that is going to change.

 

[Metalrocks]

nice article. at least someone who got it right and did proper research.
also on the official TR website http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=115168&page=10
there is a big discussion regarding this topic. also the links they post from other article are just amazing how stupid these journalists are. claiming how bad it is in a game, blah blah blah...

CD creates an more human, realistic looking, emotional character that makes a far more believable impression, and thats the thanks they get from some stupid retards dickheads who cant understand the concept of the character or even bother to do proper research.
also these stupid hysterical mothers who think they protect their children from becoming bad, which never worked anyway.

 

[The Random One]

Hello. I had a massive breakdown this evening and my head is thumping and I cried and cried. The reason for this breakdown was a horrible thing in the past. Take a look, Tomb Raider. This is what happens? ?When horrible things happen. Not strong, interesting game characters. Broken and terrified and awful evenings like this. There. I said it. Please Retweet that. All these four tweets. The industry needs to know what really happens as a result of stuff like this. #tombraider

(Source.) [https://twitter.com/notquitereal/status/213028158302199808]

You are wrong, Susan. You are very, very wrong. The desire to write a strong female character does not give one free reins to make a traumatic, horrible thing part of your story. You are essentially saying 'well, rape sucks for those people who got raped, but I want my game with a cool character!' Your priorities are misguided. Do not attempt to defend a horrible thing, even if you think the horrible thing was not meant in earnest, because that's how we get used to horrible things.

I'll add that it's obvious from the internet reaction that the people who created that game never tried to talk to a rape victim and probably think trigger warning is something you shout on the shooting range. I don't think video games can't portray rape. I think the modern games industry can't.

 

[Voulan]

Thank god. There are other people who really get it.

This game isn't just about a girl being placed in a terrible situation - it's about an average person in a terrible situation. Regardless of gender, Lara is in a place that no one really has to face, and here she struggles to survive. But this is only the first part of the game. Later, Lara learns to adapt, and then overcome her situation. This is a journey of hardship, and people seem to forget that we've only seen her beginning. If we ever get to see more of the end of the game, where Lara strikes back on her environment, then maybe people will be more mature about the game. This is about a scared person, not just a woman. It's desperate situations that show someones true character, and Lara certainly shows her strength and courage even when things look bleak, even before she has become our Tomb Raider.

And besides, rape isn't even in the game. At all. It isn't even the focus of the scene - it's about Lara's first kill. So, these accusations about using rape to define characters and to write stories is pointless - it isn't even there to begin with.