Getting into Miyazaki (not literally, gross)

[Pieturli]

So I'm not a particularly big fan of anime. In all honesty, there are only three series that I saw when I was younger that I still would say I enjoy: Rurouni Kenshin (and the first OAV), Trigun and (I'm gonna get some stick for this) the first Hellsing. That said, I've heard so much good about Hayao Miyazaki's work that I want to check it out.

I'm starting with Spirited Away, and I just wanted to ask for some advice.

Sub or Dub? Generally speaking, I don't care which it is, unless I've heard one version before. A sudden change in voice actors is really unpleasant and damn near ruins everything, but in any case, I wanted to hear if anyone had any pressing reasons for picking one or the other.


What are some other Miyazaki movies that I should check out after Spirited Away?

Thanks!

 

[deleted+75193]

DELETED

 

[Pieturli]

I really enjoy his movies, but not to the extent that everyone else seems to. However, Kiki's Delivery Service is by far my favorite movie of his, and one of my favorite animated movies overall. Highly recommended.

Thank you Mr. President. Kiki's was on TV here a while back, but it was dubbed in Finnish and I do not put up with shit like that.

Anyways, I'll put that on my little imaginary list.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Up to you really since to me it's one of the few that does have a good dub version. Same apply to which movies to watched after Spirited away however if you're going to watched The Cat Return, it must be watched AFTER Whisper of the Heart since it's kind of an sequel to that film in a way or at least it has a couple of similar characters.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I would say sub, but the choice is up to you.

If you're going to watch Kiki's Delivery Service however (which you should anyway, because it's really good), avoid the dub at all cost. It completely ruins the movie near the end by adding dialoge where none should be at all.

Other than that I'd say just check out his entire body of work.

- Castle of Cagliostro is a fun heist movie.
- Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind is not that great, but it has awesome bugs in it.
- Laputa: Castle in the Sky is a great action adventure in a similar vein as Indiana Jones, mixed in with a bit of Goonies.
- My Neighbor Totoro is just freaking adorable. That's all I can really say.
- Porco Rosso... It has a pig man flying a plane. I don't like it very much, but maybe you will.
- Princess Mononoke is a big epic war movie of man vs. nature, but one where neither side is right or wrong.
- Howl's Moving Castle is a bit of a bloated mess, but it's such an incredible visual treat that you should watch it anyway.
- Ponyo is the most kiddie of any of his movies, and most people tend not to like it that much. I still like it well enough, eventhough it kind of loses its steam after the halfway point.
- The Wind Rises I have to say is probably his weakest movie. It's not terrible or anything, it's just very uneventful eventhough it takes place during a very eventful time in history.

 

[Asita]

To the sub or dub question...honestly, Ghibli films are probably among the most subjective in that regard. I don't imagine many of the Japanese voice actors would ring any bells, but to give you an idea of what you're looking at for the English dubs, suffice to say that they've employed the likes of Mark Hamill, Liam Neeson, Christian Bale, Crispin Freeman, Lauren Bacall, Billy Bob Thornton, Uma Thurman, Patrick Stewart, John DiMaggio, Keith David, Gillian Anderson, and Billy Crystal.

 

[Silvanus]

I love his movies, and I've watched them all dubbed (not what I always do, but they seemed good and serviceable for these).

This is the order I would suggest, the best all-round at the beginning;

Spirited Away,

Princess Mononoke,

Porco Rosso (Very different in tone, set in the Mediterranean and Italy. I love it to bits. Seaplanes).

Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (This is perhaps the grandest in scope of his works. It's the one that pulls off "epic" the best. If you're into it, look for the Manga as well. It's colossal, but offers more depth of storytelling, and it's beautiful).

My Neighbour Totoro (Sweet, conflict-less story).

Howl's Moving Castle (Again, different in style, being more European fantasy-style, since it's based on a Dianna Wynn Jones novel).

Kiki's Delivery Service (Again, no real conflict. Sweet).

Laputa, Castle in the Sky (English dub has Mark Hamill!)

Ponyo (Remember, being the last ranked in a list of Miyazaki movies still means it's a fantastic movie).

I haven't seen Castle of Cagliostro or The Wind Rises yet.

 

[Twinrehz]

I've only seen Howl's Moving Castle recently enough to have any opinion, so I'm gonna talk about that.

*ahem*

What the fuck? I spent two hours watching this, and I still didn't know what the fuck was going on. Most movies leave me with some feeling, be it bored, exhilarated, mystified or just plain confused. Howl's didn't hit any of these marks, it hit blank. Seriously, blank. I had no idea afterwards what the main theme might be (other than that war is bad? Yeah we figured that around the Normandy landing (sorry)), what the motivations of the main characters might be, or what the fuck was going on in the first place.

Ok, there is a certain appeal to the story, but at the end, pretty much every single thread of the story remains mostly unanswered except for a handful, like Mr. Scarecrow (and what an anticlimax that is). I probably shouldn't spoil much more, I'm just going to say that visually, it is VERY nice, but the story goes nowhere, characters are reshaped occasionally, the main character herself seems to be without a personality for most of the time, except here and there, where she's given some actual characterisation.

Maybe I don't get the movie, having only watched it once, but what the hell? I want to see it again, but I'm uncertain that it'll answer anything. Maybe reading the book it's based on would help, but I've never heard of it or the author before.

EDIT: Also, no mention of The secret life of Arietty? Maybe that's not a Miyazaki movie and I'm a total n00b?

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Subs 4 life. And like Shinji said, Kiki's Delivery Service dub is particularly awful in that it ruins the ending.

Miyazaki's movies seem to be divived between big sweeping epics (Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, Mononoke, Howl's Moving Castle) and more intimate stories (My Neighbor Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, Porco Rosso), with a lot of shades in between. I haven't seen the last two (Ponyo and The Wind Rises). But everything before that comes highly recommended. You're bound to like some more than others. Spirited Away seems to be a popular entry point.

 

[Lilani]

So I'm not a particularly big fan of anime. In all honesty, there are only three series that I saw when I was younger that I still would say I enjoy: Rurouni Kenshin (and the first OAV), Trigun and (I'm gonna get some stick for this) the first Hellsing. That said, I've heard so much good about Hayao Miyazaki's work that I want to check it out.

I'm starting with Spirited Away, and I just wanted to ask for some advice.

Sub or Dub? Generally speaking, I don't care which it is, unless I've heard one version before. A sudden change in voice actors is really unpleasant and damn near ruins everything, but in any case, I wanted to hear if anyone had any pressing reasons for picking one or the other.


What are some other Miyazaki movies that I should check out after Spirited Away?

Thanks!

The dub for Spirited is pretty good, I think. I haven't disliked a Miyazaki movie's dub yet. But then I'm not particularly picky about dubs, so I may not be the best authority on the subject.

As for what to check out next, that's a bit hard to say since Miyazaki's stories are all so different. If you want to try something epic, go for Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, Princess Mononoke, Howl's Moving Castle, or Castle in the Sky. If you liked the focus on characters in Spirited Away, try Ponyo, My Neighbor Totoro, The Secret World of Arietty, The Cat Returns, or Kiki's Delivery Service.

Howl's Moving Castle is probably one of his most "western" films, based loosely on a western fantasy novel of the same name. It's one of my favorites of his--its story is more epic in scale, yet it focuses a lot on the characters and world. So while the story isn't structured like his normally are, Miyazaki's style is still threaded throughout in all the lush detail.

His most recent film The Wind Rises is radically different from basically any other story he's done. It's a story based on Jiro Horikoshi, the man who invented two of the most successful aircraft used by Japan in World War II. It's a character centered story for sure, and while the only fantastical elements it really has are dreams Jiro has about an Italian aircraft designer whom he greatly admires, it is a great story. It's fascinating to see ~1940s Japan brought to life, if nothing else. And that is the end of the Miyazaki films I've seen, there are many more that are lesser known (From Up on Poppy Hill, Pom Poko, Porco Rosso, etc).

Apart from a few of exceptions (The Wind Rises, Howl's) you will notice an environmentalist theme running through most of Miyazaki's films. Some people get a bit annoyed by it, but there's so much else going on in his films that to me it doesn't feel like his entire purpose is a political statement. He makes very lush and passionate stories, and he derives a lot of his passion from the beauty of nature.

So, yeah. Miyazaki is one of those filmmakers you just have to see to figure out how you'll react to him. And if you don't like one story don't be afraid to try another, there is enough variety in his filmography for it to be perfectly possible to hate one film and love another.

 

[Lilani]

I've only seen Howl's Moving Castle recently enough to have any opinion, so I'm gonna talk about that.

*ahem*

What the fuck? I spent two hours watching this, and I still didn't know what the fuck was going on. Most movies leave me with some feeling, be it bored, exhilarated, mystified or just plain confused. Howl's didn't hit any of these marks, it hit blank. Seriously, blank. I had no idea afterwards what the main theme might be (other than that war is bad? Yeah we figured that around the Normandy landing (sorry)), what the motivations of the main characters might be, or what the fuck was going on in the first place.

Ok, there is a certain appeal to the story, but at the end, pretty much every single thread of the story remains mostly unanswered except for a handful, like Mr. Scarecrow (and what an anticlimax that is). I probably shouldn't spoil much more, I'm just going to say that visually, it is VERY nice, but the story goes nowhere, characters are reshaped occasionally, the main character herself seems to be without a personality for most of the time, except here and there, where she's given some actual characterisation.

Maybe I don't get the movie, having only watched it once, but what the hell? I want to see it again, but I'm uncertain that it'll answer anything. Maybe reading the book it's based on would help, but I've never heard of it or the author before.

EDIT: Also, no mention of The secret life of Arietty? Maybe that's not a Miyazaki movie and I'm a total n00b?

One major thing about the way Miyazaki's films are structured that gets people is that he often doesn't have a "main theme." In most films (namely western films), you have a primary conflict, the characters are built up to face that conflict, they take on the conflict in the finale, and you get your final outcome. In his films, the conflict isn't always the substance of the story. Huge parts of his films are less about barreling toward that climactic battle at 100 miles per hour, and more about getting to know the characters and the world. Howl's is actually more structured like a typical western film than most of his others--the main conflict is Sophie has been cursed, and so she's set out to get it removed. The story climaxes with Sophie removing Calcifer from the castle so that Howl doesn't have to keep defending them in town, and is resolved by Sophie giving a message to Howl's younger self to find her, and Sophie ultimately giving his heart back to him[footnote]This is something that actually isn't explained too explicitly in the movie. In the book, it's explained that Calcifer was actually a falling star, and that he had made a deal with Howl. Falling stars don't live for very long and burn up as soon as they hit the earth, but they are also very magical and powerful. So Howl gives Calcifer his heart to sustain him and keep him alive, and in exchange Calcifer serves Howl and does his bidding. When Sophie gives Howl back his heart, the deal is ended and Calcifer becomes a falling star again, free to do as he wishes.[/footnote].

Spirited Away is essentially all about character development. There isn't really a clear-cut goal throughout the whole thing, essentially the main character is thrust into a situation she has to deal with, and spends the entirety of the film doing just that. The events and scenes that take place are less about building to an ultimate climax and more about just dealing with life events as they come. There is a climax and resolution, and there is a central conflict which keeps the main character in her predicament, but it's less structured like an epic and more structured like a slice of life.

And I wouldn't even really try to pick out a primary "message" in his films. Again, there are some pretty heavy environmentalist themes in his other films, but I wouldn't say that's his entire point. His stories focus on characters interacting with one another and with their world. Even when there's an epic story going on, the primary thing that moves the plot is always the characters and their personal journeys.

It is a very different pace of storytelling, and definitely not everybody's cup of tea. But I think it's definitely worth the experience to see at least a few of his films. If you didn't like the open-endedness of Howl's, maybe try Princess Mononoke, or Nausicaa, or Castle in the Sky.

 

[Little Woodsman]

It kind of depends on what you are in the mood for at the time.

If you are looking for seat-of-the-pants omigosh*omigosh*omigosh*omigosh action scenes, you can't beat Nausicaa or Castle in the Sky.

For I-just-want-to-relax-and-feel-good Kiki's Delivery Service and My Neighbor Totoro are amazing.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Also, no mention of The secret life of Arietty? Maybe that's not a Miyazaki movie and I'm a total n00b?

That movie was written by Miyazaki, not directed.

His most recent film The Wind Rises is radically different from basically any other story he's done. It's a story based on Jiro Horikoshi, the man who invented two of the most successful aircraft used by Japan in World War II. It's a character centered story for sure, and while the only fantastical elements it really has are dreams Jiro has about an Italian aircraft designer whom he greatly admires, it is a great story. It's fascinating to see ~1940s Japan brought to life, if nothing else. And that is the end of the Miyazaki films I've seen, there are many more that are lesser known (From Up on Poppy Hill, Pom Poko, Porco Rosso, etc).

The problem I have with that movie is that it sets itself up to be about something, but then nothing really happens. It takes place during World War 2, it stars the guy who designed the Japanese fighter planes, and it even has him traveling to Nazi Germany. Yet at no point does the movie really seem to focus on any of these events. There's never a moment where Jiro is struck with what his designs will result to, or how the country itself is changing due to the war. Even at the end...

Spoiler

...we just get a dream sequence where Jiro talks to his idol and mentions how things didn't turn out very well in the end, obviously referencing Japan getting nuked and heavily suffering the consequences of going to war. Now it's not like I wanted a Barefoot Gen style nuke scene or anything, but some real world remifications would've gone a long way.

We then also get a romance plotline which only seems to exist because Jiro is a man and what's-her-face is a woman. Again, the movie doesn't do anything with this except say "Look, they're a couple now. *shrugs*". That scene where they talk about getting married is the most loveless and emotionless proposal scene I think I've ever witnessed. And it's not played for laughs or anything, I really don't know what the hell it's supposed to evoke.

Then we have the main character being voiced by Hideaki Anno as some sort of respectful gesture to his history with Ghibli, which is nice and I like the guy, but holy shit was that a miscast.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Sub or Dub? Generally speaking, I don't care which it is, unless I've heard one version before. A sudden change in voice actors is really unpleasant and damn near ruins everything, but in any case, I wanted to hear if anyone had any pressing reasons for picking one or the other.

Thanks!

That's a really tricky one. I personally don't care, but the casting for Ghibli films is... Done by Pixar, usually. XD
The english voice cast includes a lot of really well known American actors.

Patrick Stewart is in what is technically the oldest of them. Gillian Anderson is in Princess Mononoke...
There's lots more well known actors doing various voices too...

My personal favourites amongst Ghibli films would be (though that's hard to say since a lot of them are really good)

Porko Rosso,
Laputa: Castle in the sky
Princess Mononoke
Nausicaa of the valley of the winds...

And well, I'm quite fond of 'the cat returns' and Kiki's delivery service as well...

Then again, I own DVD's of every Ghibli film except two of the most recent. And for the most part I enjoy them all a lot.
(Some are a bit harder to watch than others. Ocean Waves for instance... And some get very peculiar, like Pom Poko... But overall most of them are really quite good.)

 

[Twinrehz]

One major thing about the way Miyazaki's films are structured that gets people is that he often doesn't have a "main theme." In most films (namely western films), you have a primary conflict, the characters are built up to face that conflict, they take on the conflict in the finale, and you get your final outcome. In his films, the conflict isn't always the substance of the story. Huge parts of his films are less about barreling toward that climactic battle at 100 miles per hour, and more about getting to know the characters and the world. Howl's is actually more structured like a typical western film than most of his others--the main conflict is Sophie has been cursed, and so she's set out to get it removed. The story climaxes with Sophie removing Calcifer from the castle so that Howl doesn't have to keep defending them in town, and is resolved by Sophie giving a message to Howl's younger self to find her, and Sophie ultimately giving his heart back to him.

Oh, so that sequence WAS really her going back in time? I wasn't sure how to interpret it, whether it was a dream, her imagination or if it was actually happening.

Seems my subconscious was right, I do have to watch it again. I feel the thing about the witch gets resolved very awkwardly, does she really get totally weird, or is she just playing, waiting for the right moment to grab Calcifer?

Despite what I wrote, I kinda like the movie, but it was difficult to get the hang of it.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Oh, so that sequence WAS really her going back in time? I wasn't sure how to interpret it, whether it was a dream, her imagination or if it was actually happening.

Seems my subconscious was right, I do have to watch it again. I feel the thing about the witch gets resolved very awkwardly, does she really get totally weird, or is she just playing, waiting for the right moment to grab Calcifer?

Despite what I wrote, I kinda like the movie, but it was difficult to get the hang of it.

You remember the colour wheel indicating where the castle door would open next? There's the black tile that opens to a place only Howl could enter. I think that's the place Sophie goes to at the end, though I might be wrong.

I actually like how the Witch of the Waste is handled. She starts off as an antagonist, but once her magic is taken away she just becomes a harmless old woman who bounces back and forth between this Alzheimer state and the wiley character she once was. Miyazaki hardly ever deals in absolute villians. The only one I can think of is Muska from Laputa: Castle in the Sky.

The scarecrow was resolved poorly though I find, mainly because he was one of my favourite characters in the movie.

But I loved how...

Spoiler

...Sophie is never able to break her curse, but that it doesn't matter, because in the end the curse only made her as old as she felt herself.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Anyway, I think Miyazaki is a bloody brillant cinmatographist, like, one of the absolutely best, well, ever. No, that's not hyberbole and no, I'm not a fanboy. I've actually thought about this for a while, and I can't really think of other movies where the cinematography is so bloody brillant that it convinces you that the movie is about more than it actually is, which kinda leads on the my big issue with Miyazaki, and that's that he's not really a good storywriter.

Miyazaki isn't a very good writer. It's his masterful visual storytelling that does all the heavy lifting, coupled with his immense talent for creating those little moments.

A prime example is Arrietty which Miyazaki wrote, but someone less skillful directed. The script has a lot of potential, but it never really reaches the surface, probably because Miyazaki wasn't at the helm.

That's not to say he sucks as a writer, San and Moro from Princess Mononoke are incredibly well written characters.

 

[Spider RedNight]

As stated, I recommend Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke - the latter is one of my favourite movies of all time though I think you could watch all of Miyazaki movies and you won't have LOST anything.

You can go without watching My Neighbor Totoro and Ponyo as they're more whimsical in tone (and I was at the WRONG age to watch Totoro so I didn't appreciate much of anything about it) but they aren't BAD movies, just very different from Princess Mononoke.

As for dubs or subs, well... as far as dubs go, you COULD get much worse than Miyazaki movie dubs; they're usually constructed with enough care that MOST of the time (lookin' at you, Kiki's Delivery Service) the dubs aren't bad by any stretch of the word. The dubs for Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away are quite good (and I'll admit, I watched Ponyo for Liam Neeson), but the subs for Totoro and Cat Returns work as well, too. That one just depends on what you like more regardless of how into anime you are.

 

[Lightknight]

So I'm not a particularly big fan of anime. In all honesty, there are only three series that I saw when I was younger that I still would say I enjoy: Rurouni Kenshin (and the first OAV), Trigun and (I'm gonna get some stick for this) the first Hellsing. That said, I've heard so much good about Hayao Miyazaki's work that I want to check it out.

I'm starting with Spirited Away, and I just wanted to ask for some advice.

Sub or Dub? Generally speaking, I don't care which it is, unless I've heard one version before. A sudden change in voice actors is really unpleasant and damn near ruins everything, but in any case, I wanted to hear if anyone had any pressing reasons for picking one or the other.


What are some other Miyazaki movies that I should check out after Spirited Away?

Thanks!

Seeing as cartoons are always dubbed anyways since there's no real cartoon character actually talking as opposed to a real-life actor's mouth moving, I would always recommend going dubbed with animated films unless one is particularly poorly done. Spirited away has been well dubbed.

After that, I STRONGLY recommend Howl's Moving Castle.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Well I said storywriter, which since I'm an idiot assumed people would equate to...urgh, forget it.

Okay, what I meant was he's not very good at crafting complete plotlines with satisfying endings, they usually either turn out to be a red herring, or they resolve every single thing in a very cheap way.

He is a pretty damn good character and dialogue writer though, he's very good at that "adorable funny" that even if he you don't laugh, it's still easy to like it. But yeah, otherwise I agree with you. he's absolutely brillant at creating memorable scenes, the problem though, I find, is it seems sort of limited by making a kids movie, and thus have to make it simple. I know he wants to make movies for kids, and the movies are pretty much what he intended them to be, but eh, I just kind of feel it's a shame.

Take Mononoke for example, it seems a bit like he went out of his way to be completly show that it was an ending that was good for everyone. Leaving it a little more bleak and still leaving up some conflicts, or stuff that doesn't end completly happy for everyone, would be a stronger ending. The movie itself has a very serious and rather (for a kids movie anyway) grim tone. The protagonist is dying, he can't see his family ever again, the two sides of nature and humans hate eachothers guts, and both have good reason for doing so, and can't really see above their need for revenge, also his girlie is a complete fanatic who hates all humans, but the ending kind of makes all that stuff seem pointless, since everything got resolved anyway, and it just seemed everyone went "eh, let's just be nice now", while they had good reasons to be assholes before.

He's still making probably the best animated movies, well, ever, so I still find him really great, it's just that a higher level is actually within reach, which makes me kind of frustrated.

Though maybe I'm just a cruel bastard who just wants children to cry watching movies and doesn't get the concept of charm at all, so that's also a possibility.

I don't know if that has to do with it being a kids movie though. To take Mononoke again... That movie is pretty violent. You have people getting their heads and arms lopped off by arrows, people getting shot, and a scene where a bunch of creepy silhouetted apes talk about wanting to eat Ashitaka. Now as you said it has more of a grim tone, but even Spirited Away is filled with loads of child-unfriendly images.

I get what you mean about Mononoke's ending, but at the same time its made quite clear that the forrest will never go back to the primordial force it once was, and San states that she'll never forgive the humans for what they've done. It's less of a 'let's be friends now' and more of 'let's not blindly hate eachother'.

And the one thing I always take away from that movie is not even the slightly frustrating ending, but Moro's ending. Throughout the movie there's this sense of how bestial nature is, that eventhough it's pure and even somewhat magical, it lacks any sympathy, even for its own offspring. Yet in the end Moro uses her last bit of strength to save her human daughter, instead of choosing vengeance, eventhough the latter would've saved the forrest. It's fucking brilliant.