Girl Gamer's Opinion

Bulletinmybrain

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Eggo post=9.71383.722277 said:
Bulletinmybrain post=9.71383.722183 said:
Men arn't better, Brad Pitt is like that. Buff and shit and could probably snap your neck by expelling air from his windpipe.(And don't say women don't like buff men, That would be like blasphemy.(Unless your rich/Buff as hell you have to go for more modest women.)

When have you ever seen modest women achieving something and being well known?(And you can say the same for men, Bill Gates being on the other end of the spectrum and all.(My only known example don't sue me.)
What.

Cheeze_Pavilion post=9.71383.722244 said:
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This is why you are my favorite user ever.

It's unfortunate that none of the cavemen here will be able to comprehend your post well enough to provide a worthwhile reply...But that is life, I suppose :[
I was stating that the gaming industry is equal in fuck-ups, And providing examples of popular men.(I.E the ones having vigorous sex most nights.)

And that men can be just as objectified as women. Go ask any women in the world would she rather have sex with brad pitt or a smelly fat guy from I dunno, A trucker stop. She will most likely pick brad pitt.

Now reverse it, Ask a man would he rather have sex with angelina jolie or a women who can't get out of the bed most days. I'm guessing we would all go AJ, Unless your gay or something.
 

Bulletinmybrain

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Eggo post=9.71383.722315 said:
BallPtPenTheif post=9.71383.722297 said:
There is a double standard here.

Usually women that complain about this issue do not complain equally about the misreprentation of both male and female figures in videogames. It definitely makes the implication that they want their eye candy but don't want men to have theirs.

This arguement would be more valid and consistent if it was made about all characters in games and not focused in a sexcentric (wordsmithing, I know) fashion on the debater's own gender.
It's funny you talk about "sexcentric" but just one paragraph earlier commit the same exact fallacy you're denouncing. Unless you know of a secret demographic of females who masturbate to polygonal softcore?
I know some women who would so want to get it on with some video game characters.(RPG girls are the ones that are more likely.)
 

Bulletinmybrain

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Cheeze_Pavilion post=9.71383.722316 said:
Eggo post=9.71383.722277 said:
[
Cheeze_Pavilion post=9.71383.722244 said:
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This is why you are my favorite user ever.

It's unfortunate that none of the cavemen here will be able to comprehend your post well enough to provide a worthwhile reply...But that is life, I suppose :[
Seriously--and what have cavemen ever done? Scavenged the carcasses of mammoths which died of natural causes, while women were out hunting live game with nets? Sheeh!
Well add in the fact that we have had a lot of fun in the yesteryears. Blowing up two citys in japen, Killing umpteen millions of people and such.
 

DarkHyth

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My male opinion on this matter: get over it. Gaming is a male-dominated media, and as such, games are designed with the average male in mind. As a result, things are not going to change. Quit whining, theres plenty of male eye-candy too. And if you seriously feel ugly / bad about yourself because of a video game character, then you need to get out more, and realise that It's. Not. Real.
 

BallPtPenTheif

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Eggo post=9.71383.722315 said:
It's funny you talk about "sexcentric" but just one paragraph earlier commit the same exact fallacy you're denouncing. Unless you know of a secret demographic of females who masturbate to polygonal softcore?

In actuality, gaymes games featuring super muscular guys with no shirts are almost always marketed to boys/young men/guys/whatever...Funny how that works out, eh?

Most of my friends who are girls couldn't give a shit about Gears of War or whatever bro game people want to talk about here and would much rather play Wii Sports, heh. Then again, the same goes for casual gamers in general.
I never alluded to women masturbating to videogame characters. The fact that they are polygons is irrelevant, we are talking about art design.

You're missing the point which is that the game designs, in general, are idealized character types typically hold overs from action films. By no means am I excusing it but the overall issue here is how our society idealizes things and presents them in media (yes, video game developers are products of our society as well).

Asking for people not to put idealized women in a videogame is like asking the world not to believe in heroes and celebrity. Good luck with that. It is sad that these female types are the idealized visions of these art designers but like I said, that's a social issue not a videogame one.

I reccommend holding these individuals accountable. There was an art designer and he has a name, send him an e-mail. It's probably his first initial and last name with the usual company suffix.

Besides that, the only other solution is for women themselves to change what men idealize them as through their own actions.
 

PurpleRain

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GothmogII post=9.71383.722266 said:
Vanessa from Virtua Fighter 5, debatable I guess whether or not she could be considered a sex object, but I didn't get that vibe, just that she was a tough woman who just happened to have a lot of outfits where her shirt was open.
You must have had your eyes shut while playing her. A girl with sweaty jugs, exposing her bra and having most of her shirts reveal her cleavage could be considered a sex object. Mind you, not as big as Sarah, but moreso than most of the others. If you wanted an example from that game, I would have said one of the asian female fighters like Eliena.
 

Chiasm

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Cheeze_Pavilion post=9.71383.722244 said:
The thing is being muscle bound makes a man look like a subject. It communicates that this is someone who is in command, who has agency, who is there for himself and not for anyone else. The way women are portrayed makes them look like objects. It communicates that this is someone who is to be commanded, who is to be pursued, who is there for others.
You sound like a fellow sociology student...But I agree with most everything you state on a purely mental level. I think in any media the effects of masculinity and femminty is often at the two extremes, Where in real life it is more of a continuum and every person falls on a different number as even the most masculine guy can be femmine and the most femmine girl can be masculine. This is what I think makes characters in media feel more human when it is done correctly.

I think the question if far more a question of gender and sexuailty though if you dive deeper ,Such as even something as simple as hand holding often it is the man who's hand is in front leading the woman. But this is also with every living intelligent animal you see a subservent role and a dominant role it is only natural then this carries over to humans even in subtle ways such as just hand holding. Another good proof of this is in any yearbook you will notice every boy has a straight foreward look, While girls will tilt there head and be smiling both signs of a dominant role and submissive role or masculine and femmine.

There is no wonder then that in games our culture of men being masculine(dominant) and women being submissive(femmine) carries over in the extreme. Even in say popular shows where women are dominant, Xena,Dark Angel etc.. you have either a femmine woman or even a femmine male side kick also in the show to balance the masculinity of the woman.With that in mind then there is no wonder why humans have always had these roles filled and then why our entertainment would also reflect these roles if not to reinforce the ideas into our children.

P.S Western culture teaches children to be either masculine or femmine as soon as they are born.So no surprise in games which often relay's on a very simple story would stick to the extreme examples of both men and women.
 

Bulletinmybrain

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Eggo post=9.71383.722339 said:
Bulletinmybrain post=9.71383.722321 said:
I was stating that the gaming industry is equal in fuck-ups, And providing examples of popular men.(I.E the ones having vigorous sex most nights.)

And that men can be just as objectified as women. Go ask any women in the world would she rather have sex with brad pitt or a smelly fat guy from I dunno, A trucker stop. She will most likely pick brad pitt.

Now reverse it, Ask a man would he rather have sex with angelina jolie or a women who can't get out of the bed most days. I'm guessing we would all go AJ, Unless your gay or something.
But it isn't equal in fuck-ups. Go read this post to understand why it isn't equal in misrepresentation/pandering:

Cheeze_Pavilion post=9.71383.722244 said:
Apone post=9.71383.722167 said:
To the OP. Yes, that is how women are generally portrayed in video games. But when was the last time you saw a male lead that wasn't muscle bound or just another dark haired- chiseled jawed- one liner spouting american. It's the way it is. They are fantasies and that is what the companies think we as consumers want. An idealised fantasy character.
The thing is being muscle bound makes a man look like a subject. It communicates that this is someone who is in command, who has agency, who is there for himself and not for anyone else. The way women are portrayed makes them look like objects. It communicates that this is someone who is to be commanded, who is to be pursued, who is there for others.

It's not just a problem for video games--this is about depictions of women in general. There's a lot more room for depicting a man as valuable AND independent than there is for women. It's the problem with tapping into our culturally imposed ideas about men and women: a guy can be ugly and fat, but if you put him in a top hat with a huge diamond pinky ring, he'll still look valuable. On the other hand I can't think of dressing an ugly and fat woman up in a way that makes her look valuable. A woman without sex appeal doesn't come across as someone of value, no matter how powerful she is (unless she crosses over into being a monster: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_17/105-Women-Monsters-and-Monstrous-Women)

The problem is that everything associated with sexiness in a woman is also associated with submissive objectification. On the other hand, no matter how sexy a fur loincloth may be, it's associated with dominant virility. The OP mention the bare midriff--when a woman shows off her midriff it never sends the message that a bare chested man does: that of someone who is a bad-ass. Bare male skin--however sexy someone may find it--also sends a message of 'hey, I'm healthy and therefore I can kick your ass'; bare female skin just doesn't send that ass-kicking message; if anything it sends a message of vulnerability.

I mean, compare bareskinned video game characters to, say, Michael Phelps and Dara Torres. Notice how the two real-life athletes look more similar to each other than any video game characters would? When men are depicted bareskinned in video games, they pack on the muscles; when women are depicted bareskinned, they actually dial down the muscularity for video games.

Fact is, no matter how sexy someone may find them, muscles look like armor, while soft curves look like vulnerabilities.

It's a matter of sex appeal being asymmetrical which makes it difficult to depict a woman as both valuable and not objectified, because the things that make a woman valuable also signal that she's an object of desire in a way that just doesn't apply to men. Like you said, it's just companies responding to *our* ideas of an "idealised fantasy character."
So what exactly is this stating? Men with muscles>Men without? Change a few words and it works pretty much the same.

I'm going to give you a few examples here which you will probably just ignore and refuse to even use.

Whatever the hell her name is Patin: Shes a women in power, But since she can't pack on muscles(If society that seems detrimental to women.) she packs on the sexy.

Popular kids in school: The ones that are cute usually have a bunch of freinds, They make people do their bidding so on and so forth hopefully you get the point.

How women Command? Being sexy and using their wits.(Something video game characters do not have since they get stolen by ninja crabs so much.)

How men command? By being the biggest guy in the room, It dates back to prehistoric time.(Just like how I imagine women back then, The men swooning over the cutest one.(Which would most likely be the guy with the most muscles.)
 

GeeDave

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Wow, ANOTHER woman bitching and moaning about the way females are portrayed in video games? I did NOT see that coming! [/sarcasm]

I've replied to far too many of these, and general female-related "issues" in the gaming market to even work out where to begin again, and what was that bullshit about females being looked down upon within the industry itself? You're actually trying to tell me that female developers are treated poorly in their workplace? I personaly know quite a lot of female developers, and I haven't heard a single complaint from any of them. So would you care to enlighten me as to where you're getting your "facts" from?

There have been some very valid points in this thread, but I see all the hard-hitting ones are getting ignored and the argument seems to only continue off of a lesser post. It's like people are reading through this and thinking "hmm.. nope, that's pretty flawless, i'll leave it alone... next, nope... can't answer that, next... aha! somebody said something stupid, i'll just reply to that"
 

smallharmlesskitten

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Apr 3, 2008
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Everyone please... Clam down we must remember something......



VIDEO GAMES COME FROM JAPAN!!!!!!!!!!!

they have a different mindset to us
 

Bulletinmybrain

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Eggo post=9.71383.722400 said:
Bulletinmybrain post=9.71383.722389 said:
So what exactly is this stating? Men with muscles>Men without? Change a few words and it works pretty much the same.

I'm going to give you a few examples here which you will probably just ignore and refuse to even use.

Whatever the hell her name is Patin: Shes a women in power, But since she can't pack on muscles(If society that seems detrimental to women.) she packs on the sexy.

Popular kids in school: The ones that are cute usually have a bunch of freinds, They make people do their bidding so on and so forth hopefully you get the point.

How women Command? Being sexy and using their wits.(Something video game characters do not have since they get stolen by ninja crabs so much.)

How men command? By being the biggest guy in the room, It dates back to prehistoric time.(Just like how I imagine women back then, The men swooning over the cutest one.(Which would most likely be the guy with the most muscles.)
You missed the point completely of his excellent post. But that's to be expected.

If you have to ask what he is stating, you'll probably never understand through this method of discussion.
And you do not understand why I posed that question, Yet you continue to question my intelligence.
 

Chiasm

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Bulletinmybrain post=9.71383.722389 said:
How women Command? Being sexy and using their wits.(Something video game characters do not have since they get stolen by ninja crabs so much.)

How men command? By being the biggest guy in the room, It dates back to prehistoric time.(Just like how I imagine women back then, The men swooning over the cutest one.(Which would most likely be the guy with the most muscles.)
Well I would never call being sexy and using your wits being in command ussaly there are heavily femmine or submissive traits if your going by "back then" logic same idea with the alpha male logic of being the toughest but even then that sounds far more like a beta alpha male then a true alpha if there just using muscle.

In reality it is not so much how men command or women command its masculine or femmine. The same way in some cultures and in some animals the females are masculine and the males are femmine or in the way our western sciences understand it. I still can not see how being sexy gives you command over others it seems counter productive.
 

Alkarin

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May 31, 2008
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Get over it.

honestely your just overreacting about how they look. i sometimes do get pissed at the fact they make their breasts bigger than the house next to them but w/e if the game wants to be that shallow why play it? are you saying you want to play as a character who looks like this?

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/ande4192/blaine/2ontruck.jpg

the only time i justify QQing about this crap is like say for instance Warhammer where they put in witch elves for a stealth DPS class instead of the assassin. Why? because they are trying to draw men to that side, but arent doing so on the other side as well. besides witch elves arent stealthy AT ALL in the lore and assassins are beastly

http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/images/newsletter/06_2008/modelsheet_de_assassin.jpg

but i do agree on the fact that when you take the SAME armor and put it on a man its full plate but when its on a female its a thong and their excuse is 'ITS SO THEY CAN MOVE AROUND BETTER' BS stop being 12 and give them decent armor
 

BallPtPenTheif

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Eggo post=9.71383.722393 said:
That's not going to change a culture which is directed and dominated by men though.
It's a two way street. Men can't marry trophy wives if they don't exist.

Yes there are men out there who fantasize about having a woman who they can dominate as an object and surprise, surprise, there are more than enough women out there who can oblige. Yes, I know.. but these women were affected by society into believe that this disposition is not degrading. Well, smart women in power are part of society. By being a living example their presence educates and inspires other women.

Right now there seems to be a wave of women in their 30s-40s who think that they can be liberated by acting out as men, in terms of casual sex and drinking like a sailor. Currently, there seems to be an apathetic wave of girls (and boys) aka "The Entitlement Generation", who seem intent in wallowing in these tired sexual stereotypes. (Yes, generalities think people who love gray's anatomy and girls who love "The Hills")

Despite these two extremes I still see more and more women becoming ambitious and objective oriented so I think it is only a matter of time until ambitionless women are viewed with disdain by other women and maybe even men. Even nowadays trophy wives start small business to stave off the boredome.
 

Alex_P

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Mar 27, 2008
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DarkHyth post=9.71383.722353 said:
Gaming is a male-dominated media, and as such, games are designed with the average male in mind.
I keep hearing about this "average male." He sounds like a pretty lame guy.

I wish he'd get off his ass and learn how to find porn on the Internet like the rest of us so that I could enjoy more video games without the tacky pixelated softcore.

Or, here's a real pipe dream: I also wish he'd "man up" and take charge of his sexuality so that the stuff that tried to cater to his supposedly "average" desires wasn't so evasive and juvenile. Maybe then I could enjoy more video games that were actually sexy instead of just trashy. Never gonna happen, right?

-- Alex