GITS Publisher: "never imagined it would be a Japanese actress in the first place.?

[Casual Shinji]

Isn't the character's body completely artificial anyway?

Yes, I've said as much numerous times in the other thread about Johansson's casting.

How convenient then that this artificial body is both white and American. Funny how this was never brought up in the previous movies or comics. How because she's got a Japanese name, speaks Japanese, and has a Kabuki styled haircut... she's actually a white, American cyborg.

Look, I don't think anybody expected this movie to star a Japanese actress in the lead unless it was a Japanese production (And even then, when was the last time you saw a good Japanese live-action anime adaptation?). But if she's white and she's going to be named Matoko Kusanagi, that's just going to stick out like a sore white-washed thumb. And yes, I know there are actual white people living in Japan with Japanese names, but let's not kid ourselves here.

 

[MatParker116]

Isn't the character's body completely artificial anyway?

Yes, I've said as much numerous times in the other thread about Johansson's casting.

How convenient then that this artificial body is both white and American. Funny how this was never brought up in the previous movies or comics. How because she's got a Japanese name, speaks Japanese, and has a Kabuki styled haircut... she's actually a white, American cyborg.

Look, I don't think anybody expected this movie to star a Japanese actress in the lead unless it was a Japanese production (And even then, when was the last time you saw a good Japanese live-action anime adaptation?). But if she's white and she's going to be named Matoko Kusanagi, that's just going to stick out like a sore white-washed thumb. And yes, I know there are actual white people living in Japan with Japanese names, but let's not kid ourselves here.

The film's PR refers to the character as "The Major".

 

[Casual Shinji]

The film's PR refers to the character as "The Major".

Hey, if they go Edge of Tomorrow with this, fine. But they seem to be pushing the hype of ScarJo as Kusanagi among the geek community, which makes me think they're going to try and keep the name intact. And that's just going to call attention to itself everytime.

They want to remake this thing, then they're gonna have to remove it as far as possible from the original and just credit it as 'based on the works of Shirow Masamune'. If they decide to take obvious Japanese characters with Japanese names and cast them as white people... then I don't think it's outrageous to say that that's going to come across a bit silly.

 

[fezzthemonk]

Isn't the character's body completely artificial anyway?

Yes, I've said as much numerous times in the other thread about Johansson's casting.

How convenient then that this artificial body is both white and American. Funny how this was never brought up in the previous movies or comics. How because she's got a Japanese name, speaks Japanese, and has a Kabuki styled haircut... she's actually a white, American cyborg.

The show leaves alot of her history as a mystery. Many of her Co workers are left guessing as she is anything but a typical soldier. There was even speculation that she was actually a man in a female shell. She has also been known to use different bodies if the mission calls for it.

She has changed race before, so it's not to outlandish to think it could happen again.

I don't get all the outrage, the movie isn't even out yet. I will reserve my opinions till I see it.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I don't get all the outrage, the movie isn't even out yet. I will reserve my opinions till I see it.

Given that we've had multiple movies based on animated shows -- or even videogames *cough* Prince of Persia -- where the cast was white washed, along with Hollywood's pension for stripping foreign popular entertainment of anything they think Americans might dislike, it's not too unreasonable that people look at this Ghost in the Shell movie and groan.

 

[MatParker116]

I don't get all the outrage, the movie isn't even out yet. I will reserve my opinions till I see it.

Given that we've had multiple movies based on animated shows -- or even videogames *cough* Prince of Persia -- where the cast was white washed, along with Hollywood's pension for stripping foreign popular entertainment of anything they think Americans might dislike, it's not too unreasonable that people look at this Ghost in the Shell movie and groan.

How was Prince of Persia whitewashed? The guy is as white as my Syrian neighbours.

 

[madwarper]

How convenient then that this artificial body is both white and American.

Praytell, how exactly are you able discern the national origin of a prosthetic body?
The only thing I've seen released was a single shot of Johansson's face. But, the way you're going on and on about how the character is going to be portrayed in the film indicates you have foreknowledge of plot elements that the rest of us don't.

So, would you kindly share the source of this information? I'm sure you wouldn't want us to think that you were just pulling this out of one of your orifices.

How because she's got a Japanese name,

You know... Not everyone with a "Japanese name" are Japanese? Right?

speaks Japanese,

You know... Not everyone that speaks Japanese is Japanese? Right? Also, the Major doesn't /just/ speak Japanese.

and has a Kabuki styled haircut...

You know... Not everyone with a "Kabuki haircut" is Japanese? Right? After viewing the google images for that term, first image is a white girl. The first image of a someone of Asian decent is at the end of line two, though they are animated. The first image of a human that may be of Asian decent is toward the end of line 3, noticeably after David Bowie.

she's actually a white, American[sup][Citation Needed][/sup] cyborg.

Still waiting on that link.

(And even then, when was the last time you saw a good Japanese live-action anime adaptation?)

To the best of my knowledge, I haven't seen any. Not speaking of quality, just in general.
If the anime is good enough, I'd rather not soil the memory by watching something less than appealing.

I haven't seen the live action Death Note, nor Silver Spoon (and I fucking LOVE Silver Spoon), also I won't touch Attack on Titan's adaptation simply because their lack of diversity just screams that they're simply ignoring major plot points.

Though, I will say that if HBO doesn't cast Kenzo Tenma in their rumored Monster adaptation as someone of Asian decent, I'll be joining the pitchfork mob. But, in the case of GitS, there's a logical explanation of why the actress portraying the Major isn't of Asian decent.

 

[Loop Stricken]

Okay, but what about the tachikoma? That's surely the most important thing.

 

[COMaestro]

snip

But still

(YMMV)

It's not like Hollywood butchers everything. I mean it's probably unfair to compare Scorsese, Nolan and Fincher to whoever the fuck Rupert Sanders is. Oh, he directed some Halo 3 ads. (okay yes okay he did that Snow White thing too). Well then. Hmm.

You know what nevermind

He said live action adaptation, inferring adapted from cartoons or comics.

I'm still really disappointed James Cameron gave Battle Angel Alita to Robert Rodriguez. James Cameron is far more experienced with dramatic sci-fi and can handle enormous productions.

No, "live-action adaptation" simply means an adaptation of something that was not live-action in the first place, which would certainly include novels. This would also differ from an "animated adaptation" such as the original GitS anime.

I am withholding judgment on this until I see more information on the movie, like an actual trailer. If the studio really wants to sidestep this issue, they can show a Japanese person get blown to bits, then have Johansson waking up with someone explaining that it was the only model they had available to transfer her into. Similar to the end of the GitS anime really, when Batou had to put her into a child model. This would give a nod to the original Japanese heritage of the character and give some justification for a caucasian lead.

 

[Casual Shinji]

How because she's got a Japanese name,

You know... Not everyone with a "Japanese name" are Japanese? Right?

speaks Japanese,

You know... Not everyone that speaks Japanese is Japanese? Right? Also, the Major doesn't /just/ speak Japanese.

and has a Kabuki styled haircut...

You know... Not everyone with a "Kabuki haircut" is Japanese? Right?

Yet, if they have all three of these traits, it is pretty safe to assume that they are. And in Kusanagi's case it's pretty much a given that she is. Whether a cyborg can have a nationality is besides the point since we're talking about looks. And I know people argue that anime characters hardly ever expressely look Japanese, but again, since they speak it, have Japanese names, and live there, then it's common sense to deduce that they are. Japan isn't exactly the most ethnically diverse nation in the world after all.

No, I have no knowledge if this movie's plot, just a hunch. A hunch based on other previous foreign properties that got American adaptations.

You mention the Asian main character in Monster, but what ultimately was the point of him being Japanese that an American remake couldn't just white wash without changing the plot or character motivations in the slightest?

 

[mduncan50]

How because she's got a Japanese name,

You know... Not everyone with a "Japanese name" are Japanese? Right?

speaks Japanese,

You know... Not everyone that speaks Japanese is Japanese? Right? Also, the Major doesn't /just/ speak Japanese.

and has a Kabuki styled haircut...

You know... Not everyone with a "Kabuki haircut" is Japanese? Right?

Yet, if they have all three of these traits, it is pretty safe to assume that they are. And in Kusanagi's case it's pretty much a given that she is. Whether a cyborg can have a nationality is besides the point since we're talking about looks. And I know people argue that anime characters hardly ever expressely look Japanese, but again, since they speak it, have Japanese names, and live there, then it's common sense to deduce that they are. Japan isn't exactly the most ethnically diverse nation in the world after all.

No, I have no knowledge if this movie's plot, just a hunch. A hunch based on other previous foreign properties that got American adaptations.

You mention the Asian main character in Monster, but what ultimately was the point of him being Japanese that an American remake couldn't just white wash without changing the plot or character motivations in the slightest?

Don't know about the American thing, but they make it pretty clear that the cyborg body is a pre-existing standard Caucasian model chosen specifically to easily blend in, which has been heavily modified internally.

 

[Piorn]

With the entire plot revolving around body modification and mind manipulation, why is the look of the protagonist even an issue? Her entire body is artificial. They can just say she has the brain of an asian woman and be done with it.

And as far as I remember, she didn't look particularly asian. Women in anime usually never do. With the men you can tell, but women are usually drawn more generically pretty.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Don't know about the American thing, but they make it pretty clear that the cyborg body is a pre-existing standard Caucasian model chosen specifically to easily blend in, which has been heavily modified internally.

Why would they choose a caucasian model to easily blend in when the majority of civilains are Japanese? Only basing this off the animated movies, mind you -- Maybe the comic and animated series take place in a setting that is booming with ethinic diversity.

I'm sorry, but to me it comes across extremely questionable for a cyborg operative working for a branch of the Japanese government and operating in Japan, and I assume is manufactured in Japan, to look like a white girl.

 

[madwarper]

Yet, if they have all three of these traits, it is pretty safe to assume that they are. And in Kusanagi's case it's pretty much a given that she is.

Her "ghost"? Perhaps. Her "shell"? Not necessarily.

Whether a cyborg can have a nationality is besides the point since we're talking about looks.

A cyborg can take any appearance. So, the looks is completely inconsequential.

And I know people argue that anime characters hardly ever expressely look Japanese, but again, since they speak it,

It doesn't matter what language the character would be speaking, they are talking in Japanese because the audience speaks Japanese. When the Chief and Major visited in London in SAC, you'd logically think everyone to be speaking in English, because... England. But, they didn't.

Then, when it was localized for an English speaking audience, everyone was speaking English everywhere. Both in Japan and in London.

Japan isn't exactly the most ethnically diverse nation in the world after all.

So, you're comparing fictional post-WW4 Japan to current Japan? Good luck with that.

No, I have no knowledge if this movie's plot, just a hunch. A hunch based on other previous foreign properties that got American adaptations.

Great. So, orifice mining it is.

You mention the Asian main character in Monster, but what ultimately was the point of him being Japanese that an American remake couldn't just white wash without changing the plot or character motivations in the slightest?

Do you know what the the plot of Monster is? Because, if you did, I can't fathom how you could even ask that question.

 

[loa]

It's the publisher. Who gives a crap about their opinion.
The less the opinion of a publisher rubs against creative works, the better because it's rooted in profit maximization.

"This is a chance for a Japanese property to be seen around the world." just oozes cluelessness like, sure, nobody knows freaking ghost in the shell and japanese properties are so rarely popular in the west.
It's not the 90s anymore.

 

[mduncan50]

Don't know about the American thing, but they make it pretty clear that the cyborg body is a pre-existing standard Caucasian model chosen specifically to easily blend in, which has been heavily modified internally.

Why would they choose a caucasian model to easily blend in when the majority of civilains are Japanese? Only basing this off the animated movies, mind you -- Maybe the comic and animated series take place in a setting that is booming with ethinic diversity.

I'm sorry, but to me it comes across extremely questionable for a cyborg operative working for a branch of the Japanese government and operating in Japan, and I assume is manufactured in Japan, to look like a white girl.

As I said, it is a pre-existing model that is popular in Japan, and so they chose that popular model so that bad guys wouldn't know that she wasn't just some random robot, not so that she would blend in with Asian people.

I really don't understand why you find it questionable that they would have a cyborg working for the Japanese government that wasn't designed to look Japanese. I've seen tons of human in my government that look suspiciously Asian. Should they be replaced with white folk to fit in?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Whether a cyborg can have a nationality is besides the point since we're talking about looks.

A cyborg can take any appearance. So, the looks is completely inconsequential.

Yes, a cyborg can, but does she? Does Mokoto change her appearance on a regular basis, or does she typically just look like herself? 'Herself' being someone who looks very much Japanese.

Japan isn't exactly the most ethnically diverse nation in the world after all.

So, you're comparing fictional post-WW4 Japan to current Japan? Good luck with that.

Well, yes I am. Future Japan or no, it's still based on current Japanese society and written from that perspective.

You mention the Asian main character in Monster, but what ultimately was the point of him being Japanese that an American remake couldn't just white wash without changing the plot or character motivations in the slightest?

Do you know what the the plot of Monster is? Because, if you did, I can't fathom how you could even ask that question.

Yes, I know the plot, but I never finshed the anime, which is why I ask. See nothing about the main character being Japanese seemed essential other than making it easier for a Japanese audience to relate to him. I can't see making the guy South-American break down the entire plot.

The point being that race hardly ever impacts the plot of a story in any real way (unless it's making a point about race). But it still would be nice to not have everyone be white or turned white.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I really don't understand why you find it questionable that they would have a cyborg working for the Japanese government that wasn't designed to look Japanese. I've seen tons of human in my government that look suspiciously Asian. Should they be replaced with white folk to fit in?

Again, Japan isn't that ethically diverse. For example, I doubt there's many, if any, black or white people working as police officers in Japan. Again, just a hunch.

 

[Angelblaze]

I love how I can tell right off the bat who just loves Scarlett Johansson and knows this movie will abuse the opportunity to make her get naked, and who actually has respect for the franchise.

Let me clue you in about why Scarlett Johansson as Ghost in the Shell is a failure, as an actual GITS fan:

1. Scarlett's already playing one massive nerd culture icon -- should we give every female anime/comic book part to her just because we think she'll sell? It'd be nice if, 20-30 years down the line when the famous nerd movie cast is making the rounds through the comic convention circuit collecting welfare checks, that we have more than two white women.

2. When I look at Chris Hemsworth I see Thor. When I look at Robert Downey Jr I see Iron Man. I don't see Makoto Kusanagi in Scarlett Johansson. End of story.

3. The main failure isn't Scarlett Johansson, its the concept of an American made GITS movie in the first place. You could have an entire cast of Japanese actors and not fix the problem of inherit culture whitewashing, but to sum it up it's frankly stunning that people would not be offended that a studio would change things to be more American for the public -- as if we're all racist idiots who can't handle anything that isn't wrapped up in an American flag, carried on the back of a bald eagle, singing the national anthem.

But -- the concept that Scarlett Johansson is playing Makoto just SUMS UP the problem -- the fact that we need to get a white female to play an asian character and create all different types of excuses like the model being Caucasian, and 'but the character's a cyborg', (yes. They are excuses.) is deplorable in and of itself.

4. BUT HEY, if you wanna stick to all that cute little stuff you claim is canon, I can't wait to see if you'll all still be singing praises and defenses if and when they remove the fact that Makoto is hinted/shown as being bisexual. (See: Episode 5, 8 and 20 of the first season SAC anime with her canonical female fwbs, the CANONICAL manga in which she has a virtual threesome with these women, her relationship with a man who turned at to be a terrorist in the most recent animated show, her relationship with that one guy from either section 8 or section 1, I forget, etcetc.)

5. Or the time she Sexually flirted and lied naked in the same bed with a hinted underaged male.

I really don't understand why you find it questionable that they would have a cyborg working for the Japanese government that wasn't designed to look Japanese. I've seen tons of human in my government that look suspiciously Asian. Should they be replaced with white folk to fit in?

Again, Japan isn't that ethically diverse. For example, I doubt there's many, if any, black or white people working as police officers in Japan. Again, just a hunch.

Japan's population is about 97-99 percent native if I remember correctly.

 

[mduncan50]

I really don't understand why you find it questionable that they would have a cyborg working for the Japanese government that wasn't designed to look Japanese. I've seen tons of human in my government that look suspiciously Asian. Should they be replaced with white folk to fit in?

Again, Japan isn't that ethically diverse. For example, I doubt there's many, if any, black or white people working as police officers in Japan. Again, just a hunch.

Japan's population is about 97-99 percent native if I remember correctly.

Japan's census of how many of the country's population is Japanese actually states that it is 98.5%, however you don't seem to understand what that means. "Japanese" means that they are citizens of Japan, not that they have Japanese ancestry. Your leap in logic would mean that 93% of people in the United States are white.