Global Warming Has Accelerated and Will Go On for Centuries

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

This pretty much sums up my thinking as well. People are so afraid of change even though we have no idea how this change will affect things.

We have a pretty good idea how it will affect life on Earth. Rise of sea level for starters, more disastrous weather, impact that weather will have on flora and fauna which means that a lot of species can go extinct. Species we depend on for food among other things.

In the long run, humanity really isn't any more or less important than the millions of other species that have come before, during and after.

How the fuck can you say something like this with a straight face? We're mortal so it's OK if we all die? No, it's not OK. Don't pretend that it is. Your continued existence proves that you don't actually believe that. Why didn't you commit suicide yet if you truly believe that? We may not be important in the "grand scheme of things" but the grand scheme of things can go fuck itself. The grand scheme of things is irrelevant for us just like we're irrelevant for it. We're pretty important to ourselves because we're fuckin' alive and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

 

[miketehmage]

So...Futurama was right. What we need is nuclear winter to cancel out global warming.

But seriously...

I'm really not seeing the problem with large climate change/global warming. Well, to be more accurate, I really can't see why people keep kicking up a fuss over it. We'll either adapt to it like everything else on Earth will, or we'll die. Once that's done, the Earth will normalize and something vaguely like us may evolve once more, or something will evolve to take our place as the apex species in the warmer and wetter climate (woo, dinosaurs making a comeback!).

It's really not something to be overly worried about.

This pretty much sums up my thinking as well. People are so afraid of change even though we have no idea how this change will affect things. In the long run, humanity really isn't any more or less important than the millions of other species that have come before, during and after.

Except that we are the most intelligent species we know of, by far. We have a huge amount of potential and to think that this,today, is the peak of humanity, and it's downhill from here is a sad thought, wouldn't you agree?

OT: Politics is whats dealing the most damage here. Everything takes far too long to get done.

 

[gorfias]

Meh i have like 60 years tops left and considering that global warming is a very slow process and it will take a while for the worst to come i guess i just do not care. Even if we all went green right now we would not see any improvements within our lifetimes so i guess what i am trying to say screw your children and let them deal with the floods droughts and wars.

Or greater habitable warm areas so that there are fewer cold related deaths per year.

Example of a link: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_Hot_weather_or_cold_weather_cause_more_deaths

 

[Creedsareevil]

Cancel private air travel.
Except via solar powered zeppelins.

It will bring back the joy of taking a train ride. Or travel by ship.

This really has become a question of "Is your convenience today worth more than the life of the people of the future who will inherit the earth you helped shape?"
As long as people snort to that answer and give a wide "fck the future people" then this whole thing is doomed.

 

[Colt47]

If history shows anything, it's that people don't change their behavior on a mass scale until the hammer falls on their heads, followed by everyone going "Lets never do that again". Case in point, World War II and Vietnam. We'll probably have to wait until global warming is causing some kind of global catastrophe, at which point everyone is probably screwed because the thing that got messed up happens to encompass the whole planet.

 

[Genocidicles]

So is it time to start building space mirrors to reflect the heat away? Or seeding the oceans with iron?

 

[Strazdas]

The question is, are we past the point where accelerating global warming is causing the accelperation or not. are we past the point of no return. should we start working on terraforming soon?

I dread to think the climate changes here considering my country is heated by Gulf current and if that stops the temperatures will drop drastically, then the temperatures will raise due to the warming again. our plant/animal life probably wont survive this, as well as our economy.

I try to stay out of this conversation because its such a big deal and I'm a hard sell on what we really know about weather vs. human existence, and the other factors in our world. I don't say no, and that we shouldn't care about taking care of things but I do say I'm a wait and see kinda guy. Besides all I heard this winter was "this is how winter used to be about 15 years ago and people forget".

you had a proper winter in US this year, thats true. but the only reason people say "they onyl forget" was because the climate was getting so much warmer that proper winter was not something you woudl expect anymore. But you were lucky and got a proper winter, while here at Europe we had pretty much none. winters are gone and snow is retracting. go to any country that has many sky resorts and you will see how weather changes. heck, they are pumping out nearby lakes dry to create artificial snow to even sustain tracks DURING WINTER. you used to be able to sky right to your cabin, now the snow ends several kilometers from it.

OT: Hydrogen cars seem to be coming along decently. I'm not sure of the specifics, but they seem to be pretty viable alternatives to what we have today. And seeing how their only emission is water, they'd be fantastic for the environment as well.

Hydrogen cars wont catch on. They are very dangerous due to explosive nature of hidrogen. very unsafe thing to have considering the driving accidents statistics.

If we can cause it, we can reverse it.

how do you suggest we reverse what happened in, say, chernobyl?

I'm a little mystified by this. What are these people suggesting? That we don't have to worry because volcanoes will halt air travel and reverse the warming trend? If that's the case, then "shut up" and maybe "the adults are talking" might be the most tactful responses those people deserve, but there has to be more to it than that.

what they are suggesting is that natural events cause so much emission that human emission is insignificant in comparison adn thus nothing we do can have an effect. they are wrong.

Meh i have like 60 years tops left and considering that global warming is a very slow process and it will take a while for the worst to come i guess i just do not care. Even if we all went green right now we would not see any improvements within our lifetimes so i guess what i am trying to say screw your children and let them deal with the floods droughts and wars.

60 years? yeah, your going to feel it. if you were 60 and had 15 years to live (average life expectancy in US is bellow 75) then i would see your point of "dont care whats after me, yay selfish". but with 6 0years your certainly going to feel it.

Storing carbon dioxide deep underground seems like the best option to me.

no. Same mistake as with radioactive material. it should be sent into space instead.

Once people's feet get wet, things will get done.

Or if people start to lose money.

peoples feet are already wet. people are already loosing money (for example holland spent billions trying to keep its shoreline from being overrun by ocean).

nothing got done.

I'm really not seeing the problem with large climate change/global warming. Well, to be more accurate, I really can't see why people keep kicking up a fuss over it. We'll either adapt to it like everything else on Earth will, or we'll die. Once that's done, the Earth will normalize and something vaguely like us may evolve once more, or something will evolve to take our place as the apex species in the warmer and wetter climate (woo, dinosaurs making a comeback!).

It's really not something to be overly worried about.

You see, some people actually want us to survive it.

There needs to be some kind of government subsidy that helps cover the cost for people who want to buy solar and wind based electrical generators to help power their homes in order to reduce individual carbon footprint. Hell, if that happened I'd go out and buy as many as I could. Make my house self-sufficient as hell.

There is. Here a government buys any power you generate with wind energy at 3 times the market price, and then it rusn that power thgohu the regualr lines. This means the coal and gas plans need to work less since there is other sources. They are goign backwards on it now because a lot of people started abusing the subsidiy though.

And yet environmentalists continue to drive cars, fly in planes, use computers, eat animal products, build with lumber, use gas-powered heaters, and channel utilities from conglomerate sources with the rest of us ignorant plebs.

Lead the way, Sergeant.

a nice example of why you should never use generalization.

 

[lacktheknack]

And yet environmentalists continue to drive cars, fly in planes, use computers, eat animal products, build with lumber, use gas-powered heaters, and channel utilities from conglomerate sources with the rest of us ignorant plebs.

Well, that would be because the difference made by a single individual changing their lifestyle would be negligible in comparison with a change of policy or regulation.

So you're willing to ride along on the carbon train until you're specifically forced to stop?

That's... that's like a pastor saying that gays should be allowed to be married, but then refusing to do ceremonies for them until the law is passed in that forces him to do so.

And yet environmentalists continue to drive cars, fly in planes, use computers, eat animal products, build with lumber, use gas-powered heaters, and channel utilities from conglomerate sources with the rest of us ignorant plebs.

Lead the way, Sergeant.

a nice example of why you should never use generalization.

You deny that the vast majority of them do these things? OK, bro.

 

[Strazdas]

You can't really blame people for being skeptical. There's been quite a few alarmist panics in the past, and articles like this only serve to push that narrative, that it's Chicken Little and it's really not going to be that bad. Storms aren't anything new to people so pointing out those aren't going to help prove the case. Until theses doomsday prophecies start happening, people aren't going to drastically change everything about their lives to try and fix it.

Pointing out the man-made global warming is happening is one thing, yelling that we need to change everything about everything right now and give us more money to research solutions and give more money to green energy companies is just going to make you look like an alarmist profiteer.

Erm, storms ARE new in some regions. and those that aready had it has an increase of rate. For example there was a storm last autumn here that literally tore some buildings apart. this has NEVER happened in recorded history of my country. it was a record breaking storm. and i live in a region where "A storm that does not allow you to walk on a street" is something that doesnt exist, not even close. my whole house was literally whining during that storm. I saw people driving cars that would lift off from the wind (thnakfully not enough to flip them). we were, of course, completely unprepared for this since this has never happened. the weather is intensifying, whether you beleive it or not.

What i find funny is that if Global Warming has all been made up, which it hasn't, what are all these people scared of? The worst that will happen is we would of cleaned up the air, invented better, more efficient means of power, preserving wild life and generally increasing the health of this planet...Global warning or not, HOW IS THIS A BAD THING?

But but but, then they would not be allowed to take millions in bribes from the oil companies! Surely you can understand that thier personal greed is more important!

You deny that the vast majority of them do these things? OK, bro.

Yes i do. Have any proof to the contrary?

 

[lacktheknack]

You deny that the vast majority of them do these things? OK, bro.

Yes i do. Have any proof to the contrary?

Facebook, infamous environmentalist "scandals" (having a private jet plane is just asking for all of the trouble), failed searching for consistent environmentalists. I literally can't find any. I can't even find any active hippie communes.

I have absolutely no reason to believe they don't do what everyone else does any more than I have reason to believe a yeti is stalking me.

If you're going to be one of those insipid contrarians who expects my "proof" to be an account for literally every environmentalist, please don't. You convince no one if you do that and only further alienate me.

 

[The_Darkness]

And yet environmentalists continue to drive cars, fly in planes, use computers, eat animal products, build with lumber, use gas-powered heaters, and channel utilities from conglomerate sources with the rest of us ignorant plebs.

Lead the way, Sergeant.

I walk to work, don't own a car, hardly ever fly anywhere, buy my paper from responsible sourcing and recycle almost everything. And I usually use blankets or jumpers instead of heaters.

I do use a laptop for most of the day and I do use utilities, but I'm not in a position to change the entire energy industry, so I don't see why I shouldn't. I at least try to use greener energy companies. I do eat animal products - but animal produce is tiny compared to what the energy industry is contributing to Climate Change.

 

[lacktheknack]

And yet environmentalists continue to drive cars, fly in planes, use computers, eat animal products, build with lumber, use gas-powered heaters, and channel utilities from conglomerate sources with the rest of us ignorant plebs.

Lead the way, Sergeant.

I walk to work, don't own a car, hardly ever fly anywhere, buy my paper from responsible sourcing and recycle almost everything. And I usually use blankets or jumpers instead of heaters.

I do use a laptop for most of the day and I do use utilities, but I'm not in a position to change the entire energy industry, so I don't see why I shouldn't. I at least try to use greener energy companies. I do eat animal products - but animal produce is tiny compared to what the energy industry is contributing to Climate Change.

Congratulations, one-of-several-million! You've got it mostly right!

Also, <link=http://epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/ch4.html>you'd be horrified.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Many will point to natural occurences and be told to shut the hell up, for example when the big smokey bastard erupted in Iceland and much of Europes travel via air was halted for a time, the volcanoe significantly reduced the emissions for the period by outputting less greenhouse gases than the travel for the period would have.

I try to stay out of this conversation because its such a big deal and I'm a hard sell on what we really know about weather vs. human existence, and the other factors in our world. I don't say no, and that we shouldn't care about taking care of things but I do say I'm a wait and see kinda guy. Besides all I heard this winter was "this is how winter used to be about 15 years ago and people forget".

The wait and see is over. The people who do the science have measured the effect, it is real, it is now. The only question left is what to do about it.

If the stats are right on then we've basically fucked ourselves so what is there to do about it? Not to be a pessimist. I also have heard a lot of weird things from the eco-zealot wing of the world that make me shake my head. Some have reversed their standings on Nuclear energy saying things like "if we'd stuck with it we wouldn't be in this mess" others who used to throw themselves in front of tree-cutters when rare trees are about to be destroyed not even lifting a finger to save a rare 50ft albino sequoia that has both colorings and is but one of a handful of trees like it that was about to be leveled for a commuter rail somewhere in the Pacific Northwest.
I hear a lot about climate change and how its all our fault, and maybe it is. What can we do? Well put in perspective there's one thing I can think of and thats stop using it as a political weapon.

 

[The_Darkness]

I walk to work, don't own a car, hardly ever fly anywhere, buy my paper from responsible sourcing and recycle almost everything. And I usually use blankets or jumpers instead of heaters.

I do use a laptop for most of the day and I do use utilities, but I'm not in a position to change the entire energy industry, so I don't see why I shouldn't. I at least try to use greener energy companies. I do eat animal products - but animal produce is tiny compared to what the energy industry is contributing to Climate Change.

Congratulations, one-of-several-million! You've got it mostly right!

Also, <link=http://epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/ch4.html>you'd be horrified.

<link=http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/global.html>Right back at you. Okay, so maybe the word tiny was an exaggeration, but still, see the 14% methane part of that pie chart? That's not even entirely agricultural, since it includes waste management, coal mining and natural gas leaks. And by the second chart - Agriculture gives a total of 14% contribution to global emission (CO2 and CH4). Energy, Transport, Industry and Forestry (which are all items that I do actively try to combat with my lifestyle) contribute about 75%.

 

[lacktheknack]

I walk to work, don't own a car, hardly ever fly anywhere, buy my paper from responsible sourcing and recycle almost everything. And I usually use blankets or jumpers instead of heaters.

I do use a laptop for most of the day and I do use utilities, but I'm not in a position to change the entire energy industry, so I don't see why I shouldn't. I at least try to use greener energy companies. I do eat animal products - but animal produce is tiny compared to what the energy industry is contributing to Climate Change.

Congratulations, one-of-several-million! You've got it mostly right!

Also, <link=http://epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/gases/ch4.html>you'd be horrified.

<link=http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemissions/global.html>Right back at you. Okay, so maybe the word tiny was an exaggeration, but still, see the 14% methane part of that pie chart? That's not even entirely agricultural, since it includes waste management, coal mining and natural gas leaks. And by the second chart - Agriculture is at a total of 14%. Energy, Transport, Industry and Forestry (which are all items that I do actively try to combat with my lifestyle) contribute 75%.

Of course, this is all by weight.

Take the 17% of the 14% (total: 2.4% of all emissions is agricultural methane) and multiply by the fact that methane traps as much as 20x the amount of energy as carbon dioxide in a 100 year period (see: my first link) and suddenly agricultural methane accounts for nearly as much trapped solar energy as fossil fuel carbon dioxide emissions.

That's scary and significant.

EDIT: Clarified.

This leads me to question how they put their charts together, btw.

 

[AgedGrunt]

"There is no standstill in global warming," -- pointing to some of the extreme climate events of 2013.

Skeptics point to a period of 15 years or so to make a dispute with climate models and they're dismissed. But one year of climate is apparently fine for science to say, "I told you so"?

The laws of physics are non-negotiable.

Implying all skeptics reject the science. The issue, at any serious level of debate (which is being systemically shut down) is causation.

"Many of the extreme events of 2013 were consistent with what we would expect as a result of human-induced climate change," he said, pointing to the destruction wreaked by Typhoon Haiyan in the Philippines.

Right, in contrast to earth-induced climate change, in which we would expect... nicer weather?

Translation: our own models agree with what we think is happening. That's the settled science.

 

[tangoprime]

Let whatever happens happen, earth will sort itself out.

For those who don't know, we're currently in a phase called an "icehouse earth." Were it not for anthropogenic global warming, we were due for another glacial period to begin in as little as 50k years. Also, fun fact, Earth, at the moment, is colder than it has been for about 80% of its history. Historically, for most of its existence, it has been MUCH hotter on average than it is now.

Additionally, we make a huge deal about the ice caps as indicators of our affect (granted, to our society as it currently is, the sea level is a major concern, and granted, as mentioned, anthropogenic global warming shifting us towards a "greenhouse earth" is affecting them), permanent ice as in the ice caps is a pretty rare occurrence in the history of our planet, only being around for about 4% of our planet's history.

Earth was bound to either freeze over (snowball earth) or heat up (greenhouse earth) relative to our currently climate eventually, since our current climate that humanity has enjoyed is a pretty rare condition. We'll just have to do what our species has proven that we do best, adapt. In the long run, NO amount of riding your bike to work or taking shorter showers is going to stop earth's tumultuous climate history of hot and cold cycles from marching on, as we'd be just nudging it one way or the other away from extremely brief happy "medium."

 

[the doom cannon]

Yes, it has accelerated. There won't be any "disastrous" consequences. Some fish will migrate and/or die off, same with some animal species. People buying multimillion dollar beach houses will find themselves underwater in a century or less, and people in KNOWN flood plains will also find themselves underwater more frequently. What about this is disastrous? The earth will not explode, we won't all get obliterated by an asteroid because of global warming. So much sensationalism

 

[thiosk]

OT: Hydrogen cars seem to be coming along decently. I'm not sure of the specifics, but they seem to be pretty viable alternatives to what we have today. And seeing how their only emission is water, they'd be fantastic for the environment as well.

I disagree.
While there is extensive research devoted to direct solar splitting of water at earth-abundant catalyst surfaces, there is no hope for large-scale solar hydrogen generation for the consumer market at the current time. See work by N. Lewis at CalTech for information relating to large scale water splitting. Electrochemical hydrolysis of water for, powered by either solar or any other electrical source, is not feasible as it requires too much platinum\palladium catalyst to serve as the reaction surface area.

At the present time, industrial production of hydrogen gas occurs via steam reforming, which is a high temperature reaction between water and methane, resulting in hydrogen and CO2. So you use energy to heat the mix, and it is still generating CO2 1:1 per molecule hydrogen produced. It is more reasonable to directly burn the methane. Hydrogen fuel cells can do ok, but I just don't see it as viable, and research on hydrogen has collapsed with the end of the Bush administration.

Batteries/electrical and charging supplementation via solar is much more likely to achieve mass market success and is likely a better environmental option than a hydrogen infrastructure.

Note: If the earth abundant catalyst problem for direct water splitting via photon absorption IS truly solved, the calculus may change.

 

[Avaholic03]

Except that we are the most intelligent species we know of, by far. We have a huge amount of potential and to think that this,today, is the peak of humanity, and it's downhill from here is a sad thought, wouldn't you agree?

Not "by far". We can't accurately gauge how intelligent and/or self-aware other species are, so saying we are "by far" more intelligent is a pretty silly and arrogant statement to make.

Also, I don't remember saying this would be the peak of humanity. In fact I remember saying we have no idea how things will be affected. For all we know, the rapidly changing climate will force accelerated evolution and in a few thousand years time we will view the current level of humanity the same way current humanity views chimps.

In the long run, humanity really isn't any more or less important than the millions of other species that have come before, during and after.

How the fuck can you say something like this with a straight face? We're mortal so it's OK if we all die? No, it's not OK. Don't pretend that it is. Your continued existence proves that you don't actually believe that. Why didn't you commit suicide yet if you truly believe that? We may not be important in the "grand scheme of things" but the grand scheme of things can go fuck itself. The grand scheme of things is irrelevant for us just like we're irrelevant for it. We're pretty important to ourselves because we're fuckin' alive and there is NOTHING wrong with that.

Wow, I don't really know how you could have misinterpreted my post any more blatantly. Never did I say or even imply that mass extinction was fine by me. What I was getting at is that homo sapiens are yet another in a multitude of species in the history of this earth. Our time here will end eventually...either by extinction or by evolution to another species. That much is inevitable. So, blowing this single threat to our existence so out of proportion is kind of ridiculous, especially because as I said, we don't understand all the affects climate change will have on us and other species. Believing that we do know what will happen is the kind of typical human arrogance and ignorance that this planet would probably be better off without.