Go Back To WoW

[KillerRabbit]

Wotlk raiding was joke!

and where is your lich king heroic mount sir?

Actually I reactivated my account to try the argent tournament thingy instance, but since that was a joke as well and I experienced killing heroic Anub'arak, and the raid instance felt like a big "meh" I never got convinced to reactivate the account again for the Lich King.

Sure it might be a good raid instance, and very hard on "heroic" (another system I don't like - should only be one mode on the instances!) "I will kill the boss the difficult way, instead of the easy".

I smell bullshit.
ToC is not easy on heroic, and ICC is hard on normal.

And why would being able to choose the difficulty of the raid be a bad thing?
More people get to experience the content, while still being able to provide challenge to experienced players.
It has no downsides, other than being more work for the developers.

As I said before, I have not tried ICC, but consider how many bosses they killed instantly they opened the place, I would not consider it hard - I remember the first two bosses in BWL - those where guild killers! Ah, the good old days! (I once ninjapulled Razorgore when I dropped the mouse on my keyboard, try to explain that to 39 angry raiders on teamspeak! "yeah sure you did")

Well, while having a difficulty setting in a raid might not be a bad thing & that people get to experience more content is good for developers so they don't waste all the time on 1% of the people skilled enough to experience it, I *personally* still don't like it since I come from a WoW time when I started raiding only a few guilds had even killed Ragnaros.

I think there should be content that only really skilled people can experience, to get that mystery feeling and the "climb mount everest" feeling in the game.

Ah, the days when I finally stood in full tier 2 Dragonstalker gear! so many jealous whispers from the other hunters on the servers - good times, good times!

Sadly the guild I played in at that time was not skilled enough to complete Naxxramas for all the tier 3 gear.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Finally an Experienced Points I can agree with without reservation. I've played a number of MMO's and for quite some time resisted the lure of playing WoW with any seriousness. At the end of the day, many of these MMO's could stand to learn something from WoW so the regular advice to give it a try was not far from the mark. Eve Online (the MMO I spent the MOST time with) eventually drove me away by the lethal combination of utterly terrible PVE and the built in requirment to participate in it to a degree to fund one's PVP endeavors. LOTRO was a quality game, but once I reached the end (a few months after launch) there wasn't anything left to do but grind deeds, and even that only extended my playtime by a few weeks.

All of these games have a problem that fanboys often try to ignore, and that is WoW attracts a player base that dwarfs all of it's competition combined. While some may disagree with any of a number of design decisions (from the art style to the PVE focus), a game does not attract a legion of fans willing to pay month after month by being a bad game. Worse still, in many of these cases, the offending "fanboy" is playing a game that copies most of the design elements from WoW.

To be honest, rather than wishing for people to stop acting like asshats (which will be the same day that world peace is declared for serious), I'd simply settle for more MMOs that are distinctly different from WoW. It always seemed odd when playing LOTRO when I was advised to "go back to WOW" (having never played it at the time), seeing as once I tried WoW it was surprisingly familiar.

 

[Denamic]

As I said before, I have not tried ICC, but consider how many bosses they killed instantly they opened the place, I would not consider it hard - I remember the first two bosses in BWL - those where guild killers! Ah, the good old days! (I once ninjapulled Razorgore when I dropped the mouse on my keyboard, try to explain that to 39 angry raiders on teamspeak! "yeah sure you did")

Well, while having a difficulty setting in a raid might not be a bad thing & that people get to experience more content is good for developers so they don't waste all the time on 1% of the people skilled enough to experience it, I *personally* still don't like it since I come from a WoW time when I started raiding only a few guilds had even killed Ragnaros.

I think there should be content that only really skilled people can experience, to get that mystery feeling and the "climb mount everest" feeling in the game.

They managed to kill the bosses that fast because they had info and datamines from the beta, on top of being highly organized and vastly overgeared.
When each new wing opened, they had already gotten gear and frost badges from the previous wing, on top of their heroic ToC gear that's still better than non-heroic ICC loot.
To look at the success of guilds like Ensidia and Paragon and come to the conclusion that it's 'easy' is wrong on so many levels.
They operate on a completely different scale.

And yet, even they couldn't kill the lich king on heroic until the buff was at 10%.
It's definitively harder than BWL ever was, so you still got that 'mount Everest' to climb to even get to the lich king on normal 10 man.

 

[Chubbs99]

This is likely to get me some flak from the resident Turbine Fanboys, but those numbers arn't exactly accurate. There was what is being referenced as, "The great forum purge" on the DDO forums a few years back. Based on how hostile those forums can be... I wouldn't be surprised if the "real" count for Dungeons and Dragons Online didn't look something more along the lines of, greater then all the competition put together. And I say that with all seriousness.

But again, sticking with the trend, look at the games history. Anyone who knows what the player base went through, what Turbine went through / going through with Atari, the player base was imo rightfully frustrated. And in the end it really only was the die hard fanboys who kept the game from dieing and being reincarnated as a F2P/P2P hybrid. And for that they have my thanks cause its slowly turning into a better game.

 

[Computer-Noob]

Nice article, next you should look up the phrase 'Go back to CoD'.

Aion? 15.



They seem like nice people.

Maybe because it's quite new? (compare to the rest anyways)

Its fanbase is also pleased with the game, I suppose. There are so few people whining about it, as thus there are so few people saying "GOSH go back to WoW if you want those changes!"

Hard to tell which fact is more dominant.

 

[Captain Ninja]

the internet is full of so many people that cant stand being told there game is bad, such a shame

 

[KDR_11k]

Telling someone to go back to game X can also mean the game being discussed is different from X and the players playing it like it for that reason (e.g. suggesting to turn Section 8 into CoD, I have both, I play what I play because I prefer it that way).

 

[Nimzabaat]

I have never typed it but i have thought it. Interestingly enough in Age of Conan. I ran into a player who was doing the thief quest where you have to follow someone, watch what they do, and then take something that they put down. The player in question had been following the npc in loops for hours (his/her words not mine) trying to figure out this incredibly simple quest. I did not say "go back to WoW", i believe i used the term "beginners help is one thing but i'm not gonna hold the hands of retards" and yes i was called on it even though it was very appropriate in that circumstance. Basically whenever a game is too complex for someone, they should probably "go back to WoW". WoW is awesome and accessible to everyone, even those who can't rtfq.

 

[Nen]

Nice article, next you should look up the phrase 'Go back to CoD'.

Aion? 15.



They seem like nice people.

Maybe because it's quite new? (compare to the rest anyways)

Its fanbase is also pleased with the game, I suppose. There are so few people whining about it, as thus there are so few people saying "GOSH go back to WoW if you want those changes!"

Hard to tell which fact is more dominant.

I think anyone who has played the game will tell you that it's neither. Aion players are simply utilizing a more direct method of "Go back to WoW". On any given day, across several of their servers, you can find hours of conversation and debate in their main server wide chat channel "LFG" entirely devoted to why WoW is terrible. If you have even a minor complaint about Aion you're almost exclusively met with "Go back to WoW".

Aion players treat WoW like a hot ex girlfriend/boyfriend who dumped them...

 

[Stylish_Robot]

I see the same kinda thing in console forums only it either mentions Call of Duty or Halo but you don't see that kinda thing in WoW forums true, you either get the Runescape thing, Hello Kitty Online (which is one of the most complex and skill-driven online games out there ¬_¬) or they say ask a GM followed by l33t speak

 

[jasoncyrus]

In all honest Shamus has taken a rather negative approach to the phrase "Go back to WoW". I myseelf have onlyused such a phrase when I've tried and tested whichever MMO and have decided I'm far better off playing wow (or some other game since I cant afford WoW right now>.>)

I tried D&D Online myself and I found it somewhat lacking in regular casual enjoyability (yay for new words!). One of the things that really put me off of D&D was the fact that you don't regenerate health outside of towns and the healing sites only restore a fraction of your HP. Now in a raid situation this would be a pretty nifty mechanic to have but when you are out grinding XP its a pretty nasty mechanic to have since as a newbie you have to run pretty friggen far to get back to town. It wouldnt be so bad if healing potions werent so expensive.

Games like WoW and SMTI have their regen mechanics perfected down to a T. Very small regen while running (like 2 hp every few seconds) which is buffed when you are sitting (SMTI has this I cant remember if WoW does or not havnt played it in THAT long).

As for storage space since I just saw it on Sonic Doctor's post, WoW has the abillity to give you over 200 slots of storage space with the 22 slot bags that are available for yourself and your bank. Add in the ability to have a guild bank aswell if you have enough friends to set up a side guild for yourself and your alts and you've got well into almost 500 slots if you have the cash to spend on tabs.

Finally Shamus has unfortunately neglected to mention the quite frankly massive changes they are bringing in reguarding rebalancing and completely overhauling classes. (unfortunately it seems like it'll still be the same slightly irritating setup of Paladins being OP and rogues getting nerfed out the ass)

But regardless, they seem to be heading in a direction that will generally make people happier, although they STILL havnt caught onto the fact that people want skills to be split like sap is for pvp and PVE, different effects for two different types of play. I know I would be a hell of a lot happier if they did that, that way my rogue wouldnt get screwed in pve damage every time they nerfed them in pvp.

 

[Saargston]

While the article didn't really WoW me, I agree with it's sentiment. While this isn't a very fanboyant practice of ours, I doubt that it can ever change. Though, sometimes, I will note that the -fag suffix is used term of endearment.

 

[ffs-dontcare]

To clarify on my earlier post: yes, there are two instances in which the thread title comes into play.
1 - When an MMO elitist goes "eww WoW" and then loads up Aion after spending an hour writing out a long-ass post about why Aion beats WoW in all aspects of MMO-hood and chewing out an innocent WoW player for no apparent reason.
2 - When a player quits WoW and joins another MMO, and then makes suggestions to the developers that are similar to something already in WoW, because WoW is what this player is used to. "Hey people you should give us flying mounts hurr!"

Number 2 is the only instance in which telling someone to "go back to WoW" is justified. MMO elitists are pathetic and close-minded non-conformist conformists.

Hope that clears things up a bit, especially for that guy who posted earlier telling me I'm wrong.

I love when people talk smack about current raiding too. My response usually starts up with, do you use addons? Did you design your own spec? Did you determine which gems were best for your spec by youself? etc...etc..

From what I've heard, this is frowned upon.

I don't like the fact that people have the audacity to tell me what gems I use, what spec I have, etc. Talents were implemented for customization, but that has disappeared in end-game, which unfortunately makes Dual Spec a necessary evil. I get called a "terribad" when I tell enquiring players that in most cases there's no such thing as a bad spec.

Raiding is, however, much more accessible since people run addons like DBM, generate spreadsheets to maximize their dps, can look up guides for BiS items, and dps rotations. These things weren't all that common in earlier editions of WoW - especially in vanilla (the raid version most complainers seem to be the most nostolgic about) I actually really don't like this facet that has cropped up - that is the number crunching - as I am sure it kind of handcuffs developers. But, it's human nature, and even moreso nerd/geek nature to use t3h maths.

I've been playing WoW since 2005 and I've yet to start raiding. Now I want to start, but the problem is I've got morons left and right who are telling me exactly what talents I should get, gems, enchants, etc. Attempting to hold my virtual hand through it all. Words like "simcraft", "bis", etc being thrown around non-stop. Telling anyone who asks for mere advice to go straight to the appropriate class forums and re-spec into one of the four or five exact talent builds that were specifically designed by "simcraft experts" who care only about bigger numbers than bigger fun. Any excuse for them to just take the fun out of raiding so they can simply face-roll every raid instance that is implemented. It's incredibly disgraceful, and removes a fair bit of the challenge that's supposed to be found in end-game raids. The only reason a raid like this might still find it difficult is because they're either just starting to learn the fights or they lack coordination.

Nothing wrong with a bit of number crunching but when it leads to so much elitism, delusions of superiority, forced hand-holding and complete lack of fun/customization, something has gone terribly wrong. Five mages in an end-game raiding guild with the exact same talent build just because their Guild Master has ordered them to re-spec in a certain way is not customization, and completely detracts from the entire point of talents in the first place, which is character customization. The WoW community is the only thing wrong with WoW as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Goremocker]

Actually, the expression isn't merely an insult to critic and Warcraft. It's also an exacerbated sigh in the direction of WoW fanboys trashing a game because they believe that Warcraft is significantly better. If a person in a chat were to offer friendly advice on how the game could be improved, or features he or she would like to see included, that is fine. But if that same person were to continuously spam the local chat or forums "this game suck, it's not as good as WoW. I'm playing this game just to show you how bad it is compared to WoW, MAN this game sucks!", etc... Then, I believe "go back to WoW" is a justified and appropriate response.

If a person logs into a game just to trash it instead of playing their beloved Warcraft, why do they not simply stop playing the game and spend that time actually playing Warcraft? It doesn't make sense.

Spoiler: This is Chewbacca.

He lives on Endor. Now why would a 7' Wookee live on a planet with a bunch of little 3' Ewoks? It doesn't make sense. Why the heck am i talking about Chewbacca when the topic is World of Warcraft? It doesn't make sense. Thank you, I rest my case. (cookie to whoever gets the reference)
EDIT:
Also, what of those Warcraft players who didn't like the other game(s) and instead of starting a flamewar, posted on the forums: "I'm going to go back to WoW"? A cursory text search would have included those otherwise normal people NOT using it as an insult.

IT'S FROM SOUTH PARK!I can haz cookie?

 

[xxcloud417xx]

Aion? 15.



They seem like nice people.

Either they are nice, or the game is satisfying it's player base. Maybe both?

 

[Marowit]

To clarify on my earlier post: yes, there are two instances in which the thread title comes into play.
1 - When an MMO elitist goes "eww WoW" and then loads up Aion after spending an hour writing out a long-ass post about why Aion beats WoW in all aspects of MMO-hood and chewing out an innocent WoW player for no apparent reason.
2 - When a player quits WoW and joins another MMO, and then makes suggestions to the developers that are similar to something already in WoW, because WoW is what this player is used to. "Hey people you should give us flying mounts hurr!"

Number 2 is the only instance in which telling someone to "go back to WoW" is justified. MMO elitists are pathetic and close-minded non-conformist conformists.

Hope that clears things up a bit, especially for that guy who posted earlier telling me I'm wrong.

I love when people talk smack about current raiding too. My response usually starts up with, do you use addons? Did you design your own spec? Did you determine which gems were best for your spec by youself? etc...etc..

From what I've heard, this is frowned upon.

I don't like the fact that people have the audacity to tell me what gems I use, what spec I have, etc. Talents were implemented for customization, but that has disappeared in end-game, which unfortunately makes Dual Spec a necessary evil. I get called a "terribad" when I tell enquiring players that in most cases there's no such thing as a bad spec.

Raiding is, however, much more accessible since people run addons like DBM, generate spreadsheets to maximize their dps, can look up guides for BiS items, and dps rotations. These things weren't all that common in earlier editions of WoW - especially in vanilla (the raid version most complainers seem to be the most nostolgic about) I actually really don't like this facet that has cropped up - that is the number crunching - as I am sure it kind of handcuffs developers. But, it's human nature, and even moreso nerd/geek nature to use t3h maths.

I've been playing WoW since 2005 and I've yet to start raiding. Now I want to start, but the problem is I've got morons left and right who are telling me exactly what talents I should get, gems, enchants, etc. Attempting to hold my virtual hand through it all. Words like "simcraft", "bis", etc being thrown around non-stop. Telling anyone who asks for mere advice to go straight to the appropriate class forums and re-spec into one of the four or five exact talent builds that were specifically designed by "simcraft experts" who care only about bigger numbers than bigger fun. Any excuse for them to just take the fun out of raiding so they can simply face-roll every raid instance that is implemented. It's incredibly disgraceful, and removes a fair bit of the challenge that's supposed to be found in end-game raids. The only reason a raid like this might still find it difficult is because they're either just starting to learn the fights or they lack coordination.

Nothing wrong with a bit of number crunching but when it leads to so much elitism, delusions of superiority, forced hand-holding and complete lack of fun/customization, something has gone terribly wrong. Five mages in an end-game raiding guild with the exact same talent build just because their Guild Master has ordered them to re-spec in a certain way is not customization, and completely detracts from the entire point of talents in the first place, which is character customization. The WoW community is the only thing wrong with WoW as far as I'm concerned.

Totally agree with you. If you want to find a fun community, that is generally a lot more forgiving about playing the game, the way you want to play it, try a RP-server. To be honest though, if you're having fun, what does it matter? You'll be able to find a group of people you can play with who will be accepting of your style - WoW is big enough to find them. As far as the raiding goes, once you find those people who are more interested in having fun, they won't care about your unique specs, as they are just interested in sharing a fun experience...the whole point of MMOs in my opinion.

 

[ffs-dontcare]

So right now on College Talk Spot, this person who seems to be a bit of a "revolutionary" in her own mind (and happens to be an Aion player) is having a go at me for playing WoW.

WoW players are automatically epic fails.

WoW is a game for casual gamers and middleschoolers. Playing it neither makes you cool nor hardcore. Even Runescape has a higher difficulty level than WoW.

etc

And she prides herself on being smart. Hmm.

Silly elitists.

 

[Natdaprat]

"let me keep my stuff if I die!"

WoW, casuals, bads, whatever else aside, this specific request I can never hold against anyone given my first MMO was Everquest just a couple of months after release.

Did you ever experience the fun of a long-distance corpse run in EQ due to having forgotten to rebind after changing continents?

How about trying to retrieve your corpse from one of the Planes in Downtown Badville?

No? That's not surprising, because it was not fun. It was terrible.

Oh, yeah, and if you couldn't do it within a period of time (fairly generous - something like 48 hours from death, I think), your corpse disappeared. With everything it had on it. All your gear, all your inventory, all your cash-in-pocket: poof! Gone now. Bye epics. Buh-bye. No backsies. So you couldn't just get frustrated and give up on it for too long, or you'd REALLY be giving up on it.

Maybe WoW has gone too far to the casual side of things now, I don't know, I'm not one to quibble about things like that for long. I can say that when I first started playing WoW (just before BC release) the tremendous number of user-friendly features compared to EQ's system was immediately apparent and welcome. I don't mind hard games - I like a good challenge. It's why I like to test the limits of what I can solo in MMO's: raiding is all well and good, but not really my cup of tea; soloing a raid instance, on the other hand, is a blast if I can pull it off. I do, however, mind games that are difficult in that they are actually hard to play due to UI problems, user-unfriendly design choices (Hey, you died! Now you lose the experience you just spent the last 7 hours grinding up. Way to completely waste a day's work!), graphical/geographical glitches (falling through the world isn't funny the first time, much less any time after the first), and so on.

I went off on a tangent. Point being, I never fault someone for wanting to avoid corpse-runs of the naked gear's-on-your-body variety. If someone's complaining about a ghost run or some other trivial penalty for dying, screw that, but if you just want to not lose your stuff when you die, I can sympathize with that.

I played UO pre-trammel, and EQ, and all the other games that punished players. Even recently Darkfall. Let me tell you that when there is consequences for your actions in an MMO, everything suddenly becomes more meaningful. Having to run for a minute to find your body, or spend a few measly coins on repairing gear is not consequence. Disregarding WoW's gear system, in which it is important, if gear was less important and easier to come by, then you wouldn't be so upset to lose it. WoW is very materialistic in the sense you need the best gear to be any good. MMO's in the past, and even rarely recently, challenged that and it worked.

Ultimately, each to their own. If you want to be constantly safe and risk free, living in a world that looks like it was drawn by a kid, then play WoW. If you want something more of a challenge that has risk/reward, you're out of luck, because WoW sucked any attention off of that idea.

As to why you put a misleading quote as my own, I do not understand. I don't like the WoW formula. Risk and reward is far more satisfying.

same logic can be applied to the beetles, the doors rolling stones and pink floyd, some things that are popular suck, but the things you listed are popular with kids, wow is mostly played by adults regardless of what people who have very little experience playing it say.

Technically the majority of WoW gamers are adults, but a high percentage of them are not mature. Barrens Chat is a prime example of what I'm talking about.