Good series/games/movies that are hard to recommend because of specific reasons.

[soren7550]

I love Dragon Age: Inquisition to bits, but I'm a bit torn on recommending it because it's the third entry in a story based series, and I don't know if I could really recommend playing through Origins and DA2 prior. Origins is slow as hell, and not very fun to play at times, and I was never able to play anything beyond the demo for DA2.

 

[Nick Harrington]

So why is it hard to recommend? Because the very first scene of the series, THE VERY FIRST ONE, shows us Onizuka sitting under escalator and looking under skirts. Damn it, Onizuka! It's hard to sell you as a lovable but cool goof if you start like that!

When I recommend the manga to people, I tell them to start at volume 3, which is where he first gets introduced to the class, then to go back and read the first 2 volumes. Multiple people have told me that if they started at v1 they would have stopped but they loved it. See if you can find an equivalent for the anime; it's been way too long for me to remember.

The Muv-Luv visual novel trilogy is really hard to get into but if you can get past having to play ~10 hours of at best 7.5/10 school romance comedy twice to unlock part 2, It becomes a

Spoiler

post-apocalyptic hard mil-fi mechs vs. aliens with political drama

story with really good character development, has really high production values, and is considered one of if not the greatest visual novel of all time.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Berserk is a well written series, but I have a hard time saying to friends "Hey, here's a story with around a dozen or two graphic depictions of rape, and the main female character nearly gets raped around half a dozen times I think you'll like it!"

I've heard people compare it to Game of Thrones. Maybe try that?

You mean Berserk? Well it's always a recommendation, but it's only IMO similar to ASOIAF in tone: they're both bleak, brutal, downbeat and sometimes downright depressing (well, Berserk is much less that from roughly volume 23 onwards), and that's basically where the similarities end. Political machinations are rarely discussed in Berserk, and even then they revolve around only a few characters. Berserk is much more action packed, and closer to horror than political drama which Game of Thrones basically is. While Berserk starts out as low to mid level fantasy, it moves into high fantasy in the later arcs, with magic spells, weapons, armor, creatures and so on. But dark fantasy masterpieces aimed at adults aren't exactly dime a dozen these days, so I'll always recommend Berserk to anyone who's heard of it because of GoT.

OT: God of War. It's got great gameplay, but the sometimes rather questionable use of women, the general macho feel of the series, and Kratos basically becoming an angst-ridden teenager by game 2 might turn some people off. Also the ultra-goriness bordering on gratuitous might also be a negative factor.

Studio Ghibli films and anime in general for people who aren't familiar with anime. The storytelling and visual design can be so outlandish in some of Miyazaki's work in particular that it might turn people off. A friend of mine watched Spirited Away after having heard it's the very best anime cinema has to offer, and basically went "that's really it?"

ASOIAF, just because of the sheer size of the books and the insane amount of characters and plotlines. Can easily be overwhelming, and combined with Martin's penchant for describing clothes and food for paragraphs on end might just make it dull for some.

Shigurui, aka Death Frenzy (the manga). The pace is slooooooow, the characters aren't exactly Tyrion Lannister levels of awesome (they're pretty basic) and the way the art lingers on the most horrific images of bodily mutilation can certainly be a major turnoff.

The Elder scrolls series for someone with a more basic taste in games. My brother, who grew up on Pokemon, racing games and the Arkham series tried to play it. When I checked his save out, he was fighting Alduin with like 4 diseases, starter level gear, and he'd barely leveled up at all. It's a rewarding series, but the barrier to entry is definitely higher than we perhaps think. There's so much to learn for first time players: leveling, crafting, inventory management, equipment, magic, exploration, guilds, how quests work, the day/night cycle and so on...

 

[CaitSeith]

Song of Saya. It's one of the best horror experiences I have "played". Well paced and well executed; it hits the right notes of eldritch horror. But it's difficult to recommend because:

1. It's a visual novel. Although it adds a lot to the experience to hear the music, sound effects and voiced dialog; still it's a visual novel.

2. Rape scenes. The sex scenes were sorta unexpected; but my least favorite parts were the rape scenes. And even if I didn't mind them, I still consider them a big reason to make it hard to recommend.

 

[Erttheking]

Berserk is a well written series, but I have a hard time saying to friends "Hey, here's a story with around a dozen or two graphic depictions of rape, and the main female character nearly gets raped around half a dozen times I think you'll like it!"

I've heard people compare it to Game of Thrones. Maybe try that?

I don't think so. Berserk is fairly comparable to Game of Thrones during the Golden Age, where political scheming and wars between nation are front and center, but after that it gets insanely dark. There's the near rape of a ten year old, a demon fairy rapes another one to death with a stinger, we get treated go a goat man with a snake cock who wanted to rape the female character, we get a giant ape man raping someone, and the trolls. Good god, don't get me going on the trolls. All you need to know is that the end result is a chestburster.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Honestly, and this will seem weird to many a seasoned gamer - but anything SoulsBorne is a hard sell outside of the specific niche that looks at stuff like this and thinks "A thinking man's hack-and-slash! Sweet!"

Consider the series from an external point of view. It articulates itself as game-length allegories on the pointlessness of the human existence and the casual, even careless cruelty of the world. As much as you're playing the protagonist, you're also someone who has close to zero long-term influence on Lordran, Drangleic or Lothric. Monsters will respawn almost endlessly unless you're gaming the system and in the end, you Linking the Fire or ringing the Bells of Awakening is presented as something any other schmoe with a Medieval weapon and a lot of suicidal ideation could'Ve accomplished. Your heroics will fade away, nobody will so much as remember you, your brought-about relapse into the Age of Fire will only last a short while, and your epic will only live on as scraps of misremembered lore stuck to random rings, sword or armour pieces. It's Sartre's argument for Contingency and the Nausea of the same book packaged in game form, and it oozes despair to a degree that would make H.P. Lovecraft wet himself.

Try and sell that to someone who's used to the contemporary Kickass Hero Generators that are BioWare or Bethesda RPGs. Try and sell that to the loot fiends used to fast-paced combat where your being overpowered only depends on your gear set and stat choices.

Especially, try and sell that to the casual crowd. You can't. As tantalizing as the lore and level designs can both be, the SoulsBorne games come with a commitment towards learning their combat mechanics, figuring out the required "dance" for each enemy, and making smart tactical decisions at the drop of a hat.

For a lot of folks, this is a series of games that just asks too much for too little reward.

 

[rosac]

Berserk is a well written series, but I have a hard time saying to friends "Hey, here's a story with around a dozen or two graphic depictions of rape, and the main female character nearly gets raped around half a dozen times I think you'll like it!"

yeah same with future diaries, love the concept and the characterisation, hate the blatant fanservice and use of rape again and again and again

 

[FPLOON]

I remember recommending Gunslinger Girl on this very forum back in 2014 and, looking back, it's not an easy series to sell even if the concept of "little girls as trained killers" raises a few eyebrows, at least... Also, recommending the 2003 FullMetal Alchemist series after someone watched FullMetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is like recommending Persona 3 after someone played Persona 4: Outside of the initial question of "why at this point", they will constantly compare it as being inferior somehow...

Other than that, outside of anything where the concept is "just watch/play it without knowing anything beforehand", trying to recommend Cinderella Escape! as a decent third-person puzzle game while it wears the mask of an erotic 3D "porn" game that's Steam-censored at best...

 

[Shoggoth2588]

We all here, to some extent, like asking for an advice on what game to play, or which anime to watch. Also, we all here like suggesting to watch, play or read things that WE found enjoyable.

However, sometimes there is this one feature, or this one scene that makes it hard to recommend something.

For example, the anime called Great Teacher Onizuka

Spoiler

For those who don't know, this is a story about a young guy who decides to become a teacher for two reasons: to be near young pretty schoolgirls and to be actually supportive to his stundents, unlike his own teachers. He get the job and gets assigned to the most problematic class, the class that literally makes teachers go mad. But over the course of the story he actually befriends them and helps all of them with their problems. He is not judgemental, he is not preachy, he is a friend that they all desperately needed. It is filled with comedy, drama and life talk and is overall great story with good and likable characters.

So why is it hard to recommend? Because the very first scene of the series, THE VERY FIRST ONE, shows us Onizuka sitting under escalator and looking under skirts. Damn it, Onizuka! It's hard to sell you as a lovable but cool goof if you start like that!

So what are your examples?

A problem I've had with GTO is availability. If you want to watch THAT anime I don't know where to stream it and when it comes to the box sets those are kinda pricy. The live action GTO drama on Crunchyroll doesn't have the beginning bit (that I remember) and I would see that as an easier sell but on the whole, I prefer the anime to the live action show.

---

I'm 100% positive I'm not the first person to mention this but DC and Marvel comics in general. For one thing, I don't think it matters what stories or characters you bring up there's the stigma that superhero books are for kids. Another issue that even recent heroes have is the perception that these characters have a LOT of history; Where is one expected to start with Batman or Captain American or, Superman when those characters have decades upon decades of history? Then there are characters like Spider-Man, Green Lantern, Blue Beetle and The Flash (to name a few) who are multiple characters. Do I recommend reading Blue Beetle? Absolutely! The thing is, that could be one of three quite people.

 

[infohippie]

Wings of Honneamise. Great anime movie about the first manned spaceflight in an alternate earth, that manages to go ahead despite government indifference, a foreign power trying to stop it through covert agents and overt military action and a general who simply wants to use the launch as a military distraction. It covers various aspects of the lead-up to launch, including engine design, astronaut training, and the personal misgivings of their astronaut candidate. All-round great film, but why on earth does it need a completely unnecessary rape scene right in the middle? One that doesn't seem to have a great influence on the plot and never seems to be given the significance you would expect. Just... why?

 

[shrekfan246]

I'm 100% positive I'm not the first person to mention this but DC and Marvel comics in general. For one thing, I don't think it matters what stories or characters you bring up there's the stigma that superhero books are for kids. Another issue that even recent heroes have is the perception that these characters have a LOT of history; Where is one expected to start with Batman or Captain American or, Superman when those characters have decades upon decades of history? Then there are characters like Spider-Man, Green Lantern, Blue Beetle and The Flash (to name a few) who are multiple characters. Do I recommend reading Blue Beetle? Absolutely! The thing is, that could be one of three quite people.

Comics are particularly annoying because once you do find a decent starting point, you then have to deal with the added hassle of crossovers and events that will require knowledge of previous events and also picking up a bunch of other books that you may or may not be actively reading, or otherwise skipping a few chapters and then being lost in the overall story once again.

Knightfall was what ended up roping me in, as it happens.

 

[ArcaneGamer]

THANK you! Someone else that thinks so! I like a character in this series and it isn't the lead, it's the otaku gun nut Kohta Hirano. (He's likable, just not as much as Hirano. Also, yes, that is the same name as the creator of Hellsing.) Also, I think you just sold me on the series. I was looking for a great series since Bobobo-bo-bobobo doesn't have the complete manga translated for the US. Amazing how well this series can be when it isn't focusing on the cheesecake or boobs, huh? You almost feel like they're trying to compensate for something. Also, the less said about the AMV the better. (Seriously, who the Hell WROTE that AMV? For that matter, to quote Kyle Kalgren of "Brows Held High": "Some poor animator had to animate this s#*t.") With that in mind, (and with me desiring a good series that can be both so dumb it's amazing, and have good characters) Where should I start? The recent one? Also, brief aside, is Dio in it? I have heard...things about what he can do. "ZA WORLDO!" =D

Hahahaha he's also one of my fave characters in the show! Him and Saeko (that one scene with her though, uhh...) was practically the main driving force of the show for me. It's a pity that there never was a second season though, I'll probably pick up the manga at some point to see what further happens.

Regarding Jojo, start with the 2012 one, its still ongoing and already fully covered the first three of (currently) eight parts of the manga, with the fourth part currently airing. You can also see the studio doing it absolutely loves the manga to bits as its just such a fantastic and faithful transition from the drawn page, unlike a certain new anime whose atrocious use of CGi makes me wanna go 'Berserk'.

But anyway haha, yes Dio is there in all his craziness as well, along with a whole slew of hilariously over the top villains. Give it a watch!

I will! Speaking of HOTD not getting a second season...apparently Russians quite liked it.

http://www.kpopstarz.com/articles/270972/20160402/highschool-of-the-dead-season-2-continuation-triage-x.htm

It still hasn't, but hey, think about it like this. It's ACTUALLY kinda popular. Which I can honestly see, maybe not for the characters, but because it's a zombie anime that looks like a Micheal Bay film if he wasn't a total moron.

 

[Dalisclock]

-His Dark Materials: I'm mixed about this. For starters, I don't like the books, though I've only read the first two. No, it's not because of any moral outrage or whatnot, it's that I just don't think they're that well written. Lyra is annoying, there's a tendency for just plain exposition being given, and as weird as this sounds, I don't think the allusions are subtle enough. I mean, yes, the trilogy is obstensibly about "killing God so that Man may be free," but the books pretty much outright state that. The trilogy's been called the anti-Narnia, but Narnia itself was more subtle in its iconography and allusion.

And yet, in a way, I kind of reccomend it. I can't help but admire Pullman's audacity in writing the novels and not holding back with his scathing approach to the Catholic Church and faith in general (even if, let's be honest, Christianity is the only faith that's really being attacked). I want to like them myself because of the worldbuilding and concepts, but simply can't due to the characters and writing. That said, I'm sure someone else could look past those problems and enjoy it far more than I did.

I really liked the first book, thought the 2nd book was a lot better then it should have been and really set up a great ending. Sadly, to me it felt like the final book totally dropped the ball in so many ways, not the least of which putting Pullman's disdain for Christianity out front and center in a story that really didn't need it(And I say that as an agnostic who is more then happy to come down on religious dickheads when I see them).

It's bad enough that it seems less painful to pretend there were only 2 books in the HDM series and Pullman will someday write a fantatic finale the the story, rather then remember the The Amber Spyglass.

 

[Hawki]

Ooh, I've got another one. Power Rangers.

Dear oh dear. How do I reccomend Power Rangers? How do I point to this...thing...that began with Mighty Morphin, that was "the shit" back in the day, and reccomend it to a modern audience? How do I say "yes, I know that the episodes are repetitive, the characters are without any character development, Rita only attacks Angel Grove for some reason, monsters wait for the Megazord to form rather than attack it, Angel Grove is somehow still standing by the end of the first season, and nothing makes any sense if you actually use your brain, but...it was fun...back in the day...when I was a kid...

Now apply this conundrum to almost every single season of Power Rangers bar the scant few I can enjoy unironically, and bear in mind that the only season I've found to be genuinely "good" (RPM) is separated from the rest of the continuity. So thus, I ask, how the heck do I reccomend Power Rangers to anyone when I know that deep down, it's absolute rubbish?

...still seeing the 2017 film. 0_0

I really liked the first book, thought the 2nd book was a lot better then it should have been and really set up a great ending. Sadly, to me it felt like the final book totally dropped the ball in so many ways, not the least of which putting Pullman's disdain for Christianity out front and center in a story that really didn't need it(And I say that as an agnostic who is more then happy to come down on religious dickheads when I see them).

It's bad enough that it seems less painful to pretend there were only 2 books in the HDM series and Pullman will someday write a fantatic finale the the story, rather then remember the The Amber Spyglass.

Damn it, I was actually going to start reading The Amber Spyglass today. You're scaring me.

I certainly agree that book 2 is better than book 1, but I'm not sure how, exactly, in that I only read book 2 a few weeks ago, and book 1 about half a decade ago. It might be because book 2 has the virtue of three worlds being featured rather than just one - it makes the Spectre-dominated world a comparative nightmare, makes our world seem interesting/benign by way of proxy (e.g. whatever one could say about the Catholic Church, it's hardly the Magistirium), and Lyra's world, which one can see how bad things really are. It also reminded me a lot of The Homeward Bounders, which has a similar concept (multiple human worlds that are secretly controlled by a race of demons, who have chained Prometheus himself), albeit, IMO, executed much better.

It isn't that Pullman can't write and/or do it subtlely - I certainly enjoyed "I was a Rat," which is a children's fable that disguises a scathing assessment of how society reacts to sensationalism. But, yeah. Then again, per this thread, I'd still reccomend the books for the reasons I gave above.

Oh well. Maybe Pullman will get round to writing "Dust" soon enough.

 

[Dalisclock]

Honestly, and this will seem weird to many a seasoned gamer - but anything SoulsBorne is a hard sell outside of the specific niche that looks at stuff like this and thinks "A thinking man's hack-and-slash! Sweet!"


Especially, try and sell that to the casual crowd. You can't. As tantalizing as the lore and level designs can both be, the SoulsBorne games come with a commitment towards learning their combat mechanics, figuring out the required "dance" for each enemy, and making smart tactical decisions at the drop of a hat.

For a lot of folks, this is a series of games that just asks too much for too little reward.

The other issue is that while there's lot of plot/lore, figuring out more then just the base level(Ring Bells, Get Lordvessal, then Collect Souls so you can link the flame) requires either an OCD level of commitment to digging into the world by exploring EVERYWHERE or going to the internet and basically looking up what other people have already found, because the plot and game seem to be in two different rooms with only a window in between them. I'm currently on my first playthrough of DS and consider myself reasonably detail oriented(as well as heavily interested in plot) but stopped caring about spoilers a while back, because spoilers don't really seem to affect the game you play that much.

I swear that I've learned more about the game's plot from the "Prepare to Cry" videos then from anything in the actual game, and I've actually been reading the item descriptions. While I enjoy it, I kind of wish they'd made it a little more obvious what was going on, or at least given you the option to pick what you ask the few characters you can talk with.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I'm 100% positive I'm not the first person to mention this but DC and Marvel comics in general. For one thing, I don't think it matters what stories or characters you bring up there's the stigma that superhero books are for kids. Another issue that even recent heroes have is the perception that these characters have a LOT of history; Where is one expected to start with Batman or Captain American or, Superman when those characters have decades upon decades of history? Then there are characters like Spider-Man, Green Lantern, Blue Beetle and The Flash (to name a few) who are multiple characters. Do I recommend reading Blue Beetle? Absolutely! The thing is, that could be one of three quite people.

Comics are particularly annoying because once you do find a decent starting point, you then have to deal with the added hassle of crossovers and events that will require knowledge of previous events and also picking up a bunch of other books that you may or may not be actively reading, or otherwise skipping a few chapters and then being lost in the overall story once again.

Knightfall was what ended up roping me in, as it happens.

Another issue comes between arcs. Take New 52 Deathstroke: I liked the first story arc well enough (I think it was issues 1 - 7) but with the start of the second arc came a new artist and writer, the infamous Rob Liefeld. Even if the change isn't that drastic, a sudden deviation in art style, tone, etc can be enough to put me off of a series. One of the issues of Invader Zim was done by KC Green and while I usually don't have an issue with his stuff, I thought it was just...just horrible. It felt kinda cheap, like the entire issue was made up of Nickelodeon Magazine panels someone had pasted together.

 

[shrekfan246]

I'm 100% positive I'm not the first person to mention this but DC and Marvel comics in general. For one thing, I don't think it matters what stories or characters you bring up there's the stigma that superhero books are for kids. Another issue that even recent heroes have is the perception that these characters have a LOT of history; Where is one expected to start with Batman or Captain American or, Superman when those characters have decades upon decades of history? Then there are characters like Spider-Man, Green Lantern, Blue Beetle and The Flash (to name a few) who are multiple characters. Do I recommend reading Blue Beetle? Absolutely! The thing is, that could be one of three quite people.

Comics are particularly annoying because once you do find a decent starting point, you then have to deal with the added hassle of crossovers and events that will require knowledge of previous events and also picking up a bunch of other books that you may or may not be actively reading, or otherwise skipping a few chapters and then being lost in the overall story once again.

Knightfall was what ended up roping me in, as it happens.

Another issue comes between arcs. Take New 52 Deathstroke: I liked the first story arc well enough (I think it was issues 1 - 7) but with the start of the second arc came a new artist and writer, the infamous Rob Liefeld. Even if the change isn't that drastic, a sudden deviation in art style, tone, etc can be enough to put me off of a series. One of the issues of Invader Zim was done by KC Green and while I usually don't have an issue with his stuff, I thought it was just...just horrible. It felt kinda cheap, like the entire issue was made up of Nickelodeon Magazine panels someone had pasted together.

Oof, yeah, alternating teams can really cause a significant hit to a comic's quality. New 52 Flash had the same thing when Robert Venditti and Van Jensen took over and apparently completely forgot what "pacing" is supposed to be.

[sub][sub][sub]Also I still have no idea how Rob Liefeld keeps getting work. They can't honestly think his art is good, can they?[/sub][/sub][/sub]

 

[Dalisclock]

There's an Indie game I love called Kentucky Route Zero. It's got tons of atmosphere, it's unique and it's an interesting take on a slice of life/ghost story/travel story. Simply put, you're driving around Kentucky in a truck one night looking for an address to make a delivery to, exploring the backroads and a mysterious underground highway(the Zero), meeting the strange people who live there and generally just seeing strange and interesting things. There's a touch of magical realism without going into fantasy.

However, it's pretty much a walking simulator. There's no real puzzles and if you don't explore you're missing most of the content. Each episode is maybe 2 hours long, though I don't see that as a bad thing because this is one of those things where the length suits the content. Especially considering the game begins at sundown on a summers night and all takes place during that same night.

The other issue is that it's episodic and the release schedule has been pretty terrible lately. It's been in development for 3 years now and while the first 3 episodes came out at regular intervals, the episode four just released today. The previous episode released 2 years ago and in November, the creators said "Episode 4 is almost done", without so much of a peep about progress in the last nine months. The creators, despite not even explaining why "Almost done"="Release in 9 months" or why it took 2 years between episodes 3 and 4(when the previous 3 episodes came out in the same year), seemed annoyed that people kept asking if the game had been canceled.

As stoked as I am the project is still going, I shudder to think how long it's going to take to see the conclusion(despite the fact it's really not about the story and the direction it's going makes it fairly obvious how it's gonna end, IMHO).

 

[ErrrorWayz]

-His Dark Materials: I'm mixed about this. For starters, I don't like the books, though I've only read the first two. No, it's not because of any moral outrage or whatnot, it's that I just don't think they're that well written. Lyra is annoying, there's a tendency for just plain exposition being given, and as weird as this sounds, I don't think the allusions are subtle enough. I mean, yes, the trilogy is obstensibly about "killing God so that Man may be free," but the books pretty much outright state that. The trilogy's been called the anti-Narnia, but Narnia itself was more subtle in its iconography and allusion.

And yet, in a way, I kind of reccomend it. I can't help but admire Pullman's audacity in writing the novels and not holding back with his scathing approach to the Catholic Church and faith in general (even if, let's be honest, Christianity is the only faith that's really being attacked). I want to like them myself because of the worldbuilding and concepts, but simply can't due to the characters and writing. That said, I'm sure someone else could look past those problems and enjoy it far more than I did.

I really liked the first book, thought the 2nd book was a lot better then it should have been and really set up a great ending. Sadly, to me it felt like the final book totally dropped the ball in so many ways, not the least of which putting Pullman's disdain for Christianity out front and center in a story that really didn't need it(And I say that as an agnostic who is more then happy to come down on religious dickheads when I see them).

It's bad enough that it seems less painful to pretend there were only 2 books in the HDM series and Pullman will someday write a fantatic finale the the story, rather then remember the The Amber Spyglass.

Exactly the same, even as a committed atheist I found the Amber Spyglass to just be almost bigoted in its repeated attacks on Christianity and the massive heavy handedness of it imagery and metaphors, a shame because book one was great.

Edit - I always find it hard to recommend anything by Tim Schafer, the early Lucas Arts stuff is great (although a little dated in delivery now) but his failure to deliver on crowd funding promises and his (personally annoying) soap box politics make suggesting he receive any sort of funding just galling. Having said that, I have always argue art should be separated from the person in terms of being judged and I sort of try to bear that out... it's hard.