Gotta Love Metal Gear Solid

[LaughingAtlas]

I think Metal Gear has always been about the fun first and rationalizing it second. The question isn't "Why do I need to guide this remote-controlled rocket somewhere?" so much as it's "Hey, let's play with remote-controlled rockets for a bit! And, uh... I'unno, maybe the room is full of poison gas and electrified floors. Let's go with that."

Poison gas is real problem if you breathe through your skin, I bet.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'm half-surprised there was never a sequence in which a female character had to get past electrified floors by donning special, electricity-proof high-heels. Completely practical reasoning!
[sub]Unless that happened in one of the games I never played...?[/sub]

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Nanomachines?
Kudos for continuous storytelling and all that, but I can't ever get over the stupidity of the plot/dialogue/characters/designs/etc.

 

[vallorn]

I do quite enjoy most things about Metal Gear. The completely straightfaced nature of the plot does come with drawbacks however, Kojima tends to go back to previous games where he's just been po faced about things like masochist bee men or old man snipers with eyes that pop out or telepathic BDSM people or... yeah. But he goes back with his current obsession of the week and tries to explain everything away, MGS4 was hilarious in how straightfaced it just handwaved things with "Nanomachines did it" (Nanomachines, Son) and MSGV is doing something similar to MGS3 (No spoilers don't worry, it's in the tapes). Kojima just can't leave the bits that people just accept "because it's metal gear" anymore, he keeps going back and trying to explain all the fantasy super soldiers that nobody wants explained because it was brilliantly straight faced at the time.

I adore how it makes no sense but takes itself so seriously. And when Kojima tries to explain things it often ends up making even less sense but it never feels quite as straight faced and loses some of the "ok, that roller blading bomberman/ flamenco dancing vampire/ giant flaming ghost face/ BDSM clad psychic/ etc just happened" charm.

Metal Gear?

Metal Gear.

Metal Gear, huh?

In other words, Metal Gear.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I got Guns of the Patriot for free when I bought my first PS3. My friend got me a copy of Metal Gear Solid and I played that before hand so that I wouldn't be completely in the dark. And it helped. I got a lot of stuff that was referenced in Guns because I had played Solid.

But that's when I noticed something. If I was able to understand stuff well enough just from playing one game, what did it mean for the other two games? So I tried to look up the story, and my brain just shut down. I decided I was perfectly content with just the story from those two games, because trying to understand any more was not worth it to me.

 

[vallorn]

I got Guns of the Patriot for free when I bought my first PS3. My friend got me a copy of Metal Gear Solid and I played that before hand so that I wouldn't be completely in the dark. And it helped. I got a lot of stuff that was referenced in Guns because I had played Solid.

But that's when I noticed something. If I was able to understand stuff well enough just from playing one game, what did it mean for the other two games? So I tried to look up the story, and my brain just shut down. I decided I was perfectly content with just the story from those two games, because trying to understand any more was not worth it to me.

You are missing out, Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of the best games ever made in several categories. You can probably avoid Metal Gear Solid 2 though.

 

[vallorn]

You are missing out, Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of the best games ever made in several categories. You can probably avoid Metal Gear Solid 2 though.

WOAH WOAH WOAH. MGS3 is the best gameplay wise. But MGS2 tells a story that is probably the best in the series if not for all of video games. It does require players having played mgs1 and being a fan of that game to fully understand the meaning of it as it's telling a story about the player and is just using the world of MGS1 to tell it.

It's story is good after you get into the nitty gritty and understand the themes and design decisions surrounding it. But all I'm saying is that it "can" be avoided. You can generally hold together the rest of the story of the games without it since Kojima loves to explain things that happened in previous titles.

It's a good game, hands down. It's a Metal Gear game and that's pretty solid as a mark of quality goes, but it's possible to avoid it and it's not really my favorite. But then I have a penchant for the James Bond themed nonsense of Snake Eater (or Subsistence if you want to play with a working camera) over MSG2's gameplay and parts of it's story.

 

[Coruptin]

You are missing out, Metal Gear Solid 3 is one of the best games ever made in several categories. You can probably avoid Metal Gear Solid 2 though.

WOAH WOAH WOAH. MGS3 is the best gameplay wise. But MGS2 tells a story that is probably the best in the series if not for all of video games. It does require players having played mgs1 and being a fan of that game to fully understand the meaning of it as it's telling a story about the player and is just using the world of MGS1 to tell it.

The only Metal Gear game I've tried playing is MGS3. I stopped because I couldn't figure out how to get any of the controls to work sometime after I got past the first few enemies.

 

[JimB]

I think Metal Gear is popular for the same reason Donald Trump is popular: There's just plain something charming about honesty, about being honest on who you are and what you do. Metal Gear is batshit insane, and it will be completely honest with you about that.

The comparison kind of falls apart because Metal Gear is insane with good intentions rather than malicious, but whatever, let's not get bogged down in every little detail.

 

[sageoftruth]

I suspect the "in other words" thing is just a quirk of Japanese writing. I also see this used a ton in anime. It's as annoying as shit there too.

P.S. Thanks

P.P.S. Metal Gear?

Same. A buddy of mine went to Japan. According to him, making a proper statement in a Japanese meeting room takes at least as long as it would take to make the statement in Entish.

 

[1981]

*pounce*

I got a free code for The Phantom Pain with my graphics card. I decided to sell it when I read that it's a stealth game. I really tried to get through Splinter Cell: Blacklist but at some point I j--- LEEROY!

I honestly think that the reason no one minds all those plot holes is because the vast majority of people playing video games just don't pay attention to anything beyond game play.

I agree. But I'm not sure why some games get (unfair) criticism. Do people only pay attention if someone brings it up and tells them what to think?

a guy with the power to control FUCKING BEES

old man snipers with eyes that pop out

You had me at Naked Snake.

 

[thanatos388]

I always find weird how Metal Gear as a series gets some stuff kind of right but then shoves weird stupid shit into it's game. For instance, they went to the point that the FOXdie virus had a somewhat specific mecahnism of action but then you get a floating gasmask psychic. Or when Naked Snake gets his hands on the modified 1911 and gushes about it but then you get a guy with the power to control FUCKING BEES

Metal Gear?

Metal Gear.

But what is the problem exactly? It just seems like you simply don't accept that Metal Gear is a Sci Fi fantasy simply because it has a hard military aesthetic. People say its crazy but its no crazier than say Dragon Age or Mass Effect really. But those aren't modern so I guess its ok? Even if the science in Star Trek or Dragon Age still strive for as much mechanical realism as possible as far as science or weapons are concerned. Metal Gear is pretty much the same.

 

[Hawki]

I always find weird how Metal Gear as a series gets some stuff kind of right but then shoves weird stupid shit into it's game. For instance, they went to the point that the FOXdie virus had a somewhat specific mecahnism of action but then you get a floating gasmask psychic. Or when Naked Snake gets his hands on the modified 1911 and gushes about it but then you get a guy with the power to control FUCKING BEES

Metal Gear?

Metal Gear.

But what is the problem exactly? It just seems like you simply don't accept that Metal Gear is a Sci Fi fantasy simply because it has a hard military aesthetic. People say its crazy but its no crazier than say Dragon Age or Mass Effect really. But those aren't modern so I guess its ok? Even if the science in Star Trek or Dragon Age still strive for as much mechanical realism as possible as far as science or weapons are concerned. Metal Gear is pretty much the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I8HOzJpHeU

Metal Gear is an example of "one step removed" rather than outright sci-fi/sci-fa. The idea being that it's the world as we know it, but with a few key differences. Not based on "point of divergence," where a single event changes the history of the world as we understand it, but where certain things are different and accepted, e.g.

-Psychic powers
-Nanomachines
-Gene therapy
-Accepted use of bi-pedal walkers as weapons of war (the Metal Gears themselves)
-Cybernetics (most prolific in Revengence, but it goes as far back as the original Metal Gear itself)
-War economy

And so on. The above link is the first part of a rumination series on Metal Gear that I highly recomend, along with many other games/game series and other things (e.g. films).

 

[GrumbleGrump]

But what is the problem exactly? It just seems like you simply don't accept that Metal Gear is a Sci Fi fantasy simply because it has a hard military aesthetic. People say its crazy but its no crazier than say Dragon Age or Mass Effect really. But those aren't modern so I guess its ok? Even if the science in Star Trek or Dragon Age still strive for as much mechanical realism as possible as far as science or weapons are concerned. Metal Gear is pretty much the same.

That's kind of the thing, the fantastic elements in Mass Effect are almost entirely suported by Element Zero, which if was real, the Mass Effect world could very well be our world in a few decades. It sticks to its hard science roots. Metal Gear, on the other hand, puts a relatively hard espionage and military fiction at complete odds with its fantastical elements. It's magical realism on the worst ways, since most magical realism works have some sort of whimsy to them (The Rabbi's Cat, Driver: San Fransisco, 100 Years of Solitude, etc.), whereas Metal Gear feels just way too gritty with the threat of nuclear terrorism, broken soldiers and childhood trauma combined with the fantastical elements. I'm not saying that gritty realism can't work with fantastical elements, but it has to be a little more subdued and subtle. Either that or make the fantastical elements darker instead.

For example:
- Psycho Mantis doesn't float in place, he uses various attacks messing with your controls and display throughout the fight, never showing himself directly until he's defeated. Something more akin to the Scarecrow segment in Arkham Asylum, or the Sorrow himself, but without the dumb watery projections thing.
- The Pain doesn't get his bee tommygun. I'm sorry, but that'd be dumb even if it was a completely fantastical game. He should also have at least a hive on himself somewhere, to at least explain why don't all the bees starve to death and how can he transport them into battle.
- Vamp doesn't dodge bullets like a ballerina, he either simply dissapears or just shrugs off most gunfire. No dick knife, either.
- Quiet breathes like a fucking normal human being, instead she goes around borderline naked in order to effectively use the chromatophores in her skin.
- Ocelot doesn't twirl his fucking loaded SAA's like a fucking moron. He either uses duds or simply doesn't load the chambers in order to fuck with people.

Things like that. Think kind of how the SCP foundation works. Completely fantastical elements under the studious, empirical eye of the foundation, with clearly delineated abilities that are stopped by containment procedures determined by the scientific method.

 

[iller3]

Why is every other reviewer giving it the 10 / 10 wellfare treatment? .... well obviously ...
b/c they never got far enough into the game to see its fully exposed drooping horse bollocks.
If they had, they'd a noticed just how ridiculously jarring even its own gameplay, balance, & scoring mechanics are.

Also they're probably all in agreement that this is Kojima's final send-off as well as the last "decent" installment.
IN OTHER WORDS ...it's all downhill from here

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

"less than intuitive controls.."

A bit rich from someone who made Poacher.

Honestly, the plot fell apart and I didn't listen to half of the tapes, but it is the only game since Deus Ex, Thief and Blood Money where I could just lie in wait for minutes, and take hours to slog through a mission infiltrating a place unseen. I haven't enjoyed any game's GAMEPLAY like this in many, many years. To say it has less than intuitive controls when it has the best controls in the whole MGS series to offer? Sometimes I doubt Yahtzee's commitment to Sparkle Motion.

The game is simply - fun. Gleeful at times. More of this in the game industry, please, rather than Gone Home and Sunset.

No one has acknowledged the Donnie Darko reference here, so I have taken it upon myself to congratulate you on a wierdly amazing, coincidental choice. Donnie Darko that is DD as such is the Diamond Dogs in MGS also DD. With more matching letters too! Did you plan this from the beginning?? What sorcery classes do you take?

 

[verdant monkai]

Its things like the main super serious lead having a silly name like Big Boss that gives the games their janky charm. If metal gear didn't have any of its famous absurdness they would be shitty games. Theres a reason I don't play Splinter Cell or call of duty, and thats because they don't have Cyborgs, roller skating fat men, Nuke launching mechs, clones, ghosts, vampires, cyborg ninjas and main characters with play on words for penis.

I think Kojima never dropped the name Big Boss and various other quirks because he knows it makes Metal Gear stand out form the rest.

 

[thanatos388]

But what is the problem exactly? It just seems like you simply don't accept that Metal Gear is a Sci Fi fantasy simply because it has a hard military aesthetic. People say its crazy but its no crazier than say Dragon Age or Mass Effect really. But those aren't modern so I guess its ok? Even if the science in Star Trek or Dragon Age still strive for as much mechanical realism as possible as far as science or weapons are concerned. Metal Gear is pretty much the same.

That's kind of the thing, the fantastic elements in Mass Effect are almost entirely suported by Element Zero, which if was real, the Mass Effect world could very well be our world in a few decades. It sticks to its hard science roots. Metal Gear, on the other hand, puts a relatively hard espionage and military fiction at complete odds with its fantastical elements. It's magical realism on the worst ways, since most magical realism works have some sort of whimsy to them (The Rabbi's Cat, Driver: San Fransisco, 100 Years of Solitude, etc.), whereas Metal Gear feels just way too gritty with the threat of nuclear terrorism, broken soldiers and childhood trauma combined with the fantastical elements. I'm not saying that gritty realism can't work with fantastical elements, but it has to be a little more subdued and subtle. Either that or make the fantastical elements darker instead.

For example:
- Psycho Mantis doesn't float in place, he uses various attacks messing with your controls and display throughout the fight, never showing himself directly until he's defeated. Something more akin to the Scarecrow segment in Arkham Asylum, or the Sorrow himself, but without the dumb watery projections thing.
- The Pain doesn't get his bee tommygun. I'm sorry, but that'd be dumb even if it was a completely fantastical game. He should also have at least a hive on himself somewhere, to at least explain why don't all the bees starve to death and how can he transport them into battle.
- Vamp doesn't dodge bullets like a ballerina, he either simply dissapears or just shrugs off most gunfire. No dick knife, either.
- Quiet breathes like a fucking normal human being, instead she goes around borderline naked in order to effectively use the chromatophores in her skin.
- Ocelot doesn't twirl his fucking loaded SAA's like a fucking moron. He either uses duds or simply doesn't load the chambers in order to fuck with people.

Things like that. Think kind of how the SCP foundation works. Completely fantastical elements under the studious, empirical eye of the foundation, with clearly delineated abilities that are stopped by containment procedures determined by the scientific method.

But that's why its fantasy. There is no real logic to the biotics in Mass Effects either especially once you get to the Starchild. Once everyone went deep into understanding the lore of the games in order to prove the indoctrination theory they saw just how bullshit and broken the lore really is. Making drastic changes in the codex from game to game for no real reason. Its just as whimsical in many aspects. The main difference is as you say, Metal Gear presents itself very seriously and rarely lets up. The characters take things seriously the whole time and the tone is of an R rated hostage film through and though. I think that's the only real difference.

 

[GrumbleGrump]

But that's why its fantasy. There is no real logic to the biotics in Mass Effects either especially once you get to the Starchild. Once everyone went deep into understanding the lore of the games in order to prove the indoctrination theory they saw just how bullshit and broken the lore really is. Making drastic changes in the codex from game to game for no real reason. Its just as whimsical in many aspects. The main difference is as you say, Metal Gear presents itself very seriously and rarely lets up. The characters take things seriously the whole time and the tone is of an R rated hostage film through and though. I think that's the only real difference.

Yes, it's the only difference and a pretty big one at that. Playing things such as ghosts, psychics, lightning men and to some extent, vampires, in a rather straight manner, with nought a half-decent handwave or in-universe basis other than "Kojima thought it was cool" seriously makes the lore and universe feel a lot less serious than it likes to take itself. It's completely lacking in self-awareness, which would be okay if the game was lighthearted, but it's not. So you get a supposedly serious scene in which a vampire blademaster jumps from a harrier jet and runs up a strut in a sea platform. All of this, while said harrier is being held in the mouth of a giant mecha. Yes, it's an action scene and still it feels completely ridiculous.

Just because it's fantasy doesn't mean it doesn't have to have a consistent tone, or restraint. That's why I always find the writing so bad, it's an espionage plot that's just rolls around in complete excess.