Gran Turismo 5: One of 2010's Top RPGs?

[KEM10]

just because you level up does not a game an RPG, games like fallout 3 are on the verge of being an RPG but have now received their own category of RPS (role playing shooters), but there is no role in GT5, its just a racing sim with a feature of levels.

The RPS seems to be people that like story but don't want to be lumped with the JRPG fans. In other words, you're caring too much about classification.

But the bits you're upgrading is the car. That's like saying that you're an awesome fighter who just keeps getting a more awesome sword.

After a point, you're just roleplaying the equipment. Because all the "awesome racing dude" does is move it. He's got no role to play.

A Car Playing Game I could go with, but there's nothing to your "Awesome Racing Dude". Just a blank slate that stays blank.

If we're talking that way, then every game is a RPG. Which has been argued many times before.

Is Half Life an RPG, by the same standard? Is Sonic?

I've seen people spend an hour in D&D trying to figure out which magical sword they will choose, the equipment is just as important as the person wielding it. In addition, you could technically say every game is a role playing game. You take the role of what ever character or avatar you have in front of you. I know I am not a blue speed demon or a silent protagonist that everyone thinks/hopes is secretly a bad ass.

 

[Juggern4ut20]

One real huge problem.

RPG= ROLE playing Game.

What ROLE are you actually playing? Because you seem to be suggesting you're playing the car?

Completely agree. Apparently, somehow the attributes of a RPG have left out the most important aspect of a RPG. THE ROLE PLAYING. Allow me to refute this ridiculous article point by point.

A. Playing as the car is not role playing. Role playing involves putting yourself into the shoes of a character and making choices in game that affect the story. I'll get to there being no story later, but what choices do you make in game that define your character and make them any different than any other character in the game? None.

B. Driving races are not the same as quests. I like the line that it's not smashing goblins or disarming traps. I like it because smashing goblins and disarming traps is NOT what a quest is. A quest is a search or expedition made in order to find or obtain something. Saving a damsel in distress is the quest, smashing goblins and disarming traps is the means in which that quest is fulfilled. Saying the race itself is the quest is equally moronic because there is no distinction between your character and the other characters.

C. There is no story. I mean the line says it all, "The story is what you make it" which means "there is no story unless you create one". Yea, if you make up a story in your mind about who you are and who the other drivers are, then you can create a made up story for yourself. You can also do that for any game ever, that does not make them all RPGs. Another important aspect of an RPG in my mind is that the main character has to have an active and influential impact on the story, which does not happen.

D. "it also has to have a form of character progression". Changing your helmet in Dragon Age is not 'character progression'. In fact, your character's equipment is independent of their character. Please take any sort of story telling classes before making such stretched comparisons.

This piece of garbage is probably the worst article I have ever read on the escapist if not in general. Does GT5 have RPG aspects incorporated into it? Sure. But to make the argument that it IS an RPG and is actually one of the best RPGs of the year is so inane that I don't see how this article could even get the go ahead to be written.

 

[kouriichi]

One real huge problem.

RPG= ROLE playing Game.

What ROLE are you actually playing? Because you seem to be suggesting you're playing the car?

An awesome racing dude.

But the bits you're upgrading is the car. That's like saying that you're an awesome fighter who just keeps getting a more awesome sword.

After a point, you're just roleplaying the equipment. Because all the "awesome racing dude" does is move it. He's got no role to play.

A Car Playing Game I could go with, but there's nothing to your "Awesome Racing Dude". Just a blank slate that stays blank.

If we're talking that way, then every game is a RPG. Which has been argued many times before.

Is Half Life an RPG, by the same standard? Is Sonic?

Half-Life and Sonic don't have any notable character progression, so not in my mind. Why is an awesome racing dude not a role? He's constantly building himself up, completing new challenges, and becoming a better racer. Is that blank?

Im sorry, but i have to agree with Root. Theres no RPG to it. The exp system might as well not exist, you dont accually UNLOCK anything by leveling up. They just tell you its ok to buy certen cars.

And "awesome racing dude" has no role. Hes never featured, never shown, has no name, and no connection to the game. He might aswell be "awesome racing robot", or "awesome racing hamster". An RPG requires you playing a role. There is not role here to be had. Theres no dialogue between him and anyone else. They might as well leave the drivers seat empty!

 

[Xersues]

One real huge problem.

RPG= ROLE playing Game.

What ROLE are you actually playing? Because you seem to be suggesting you're playing the car?

You're playing a guy that wins money easily so he can buy a turbo and beat everybody without learning to drive his indestructible car.

I think it's cute when reviewers throw the RPG card at these games in a review to show how much depth they have, but c'mon. This is not even funny. Racing games might want to appeal to racing fans instead of collectors, how about that?

The damage system starts at level 20 and goes to full at level 40.

Everytime someone defends Polyphony Digital, I strangle seven kittens out of friendly rage.

rpg......?

i understand that can be a loose definition.

but come on.

its gran. fucking. turismo.

which i was highly dissappointed by this game..ill go back to mario kart and full auto, much better racing games imo

The hell? Its a simulation racing game. I'm very inclined to believe most of the people that have "played it" here are either lying through their teeth, or tried it for 5 minutes before ragequitting and crying about how difficult it is after the first few ranks (15+).

You buy a racing wheel, why? Its a simulation game and it slowly increases the difficulty curve the more you play. This is why the experience point system matters. You start out very arcadish, and move more and more to a simulation game to really up the difficulty. That is the point the author is trying to make. While it does seem like bit of a stretch, PD really did go out their their way to freshen their series up. At first glance it looks like the same shit, but the way it plays is very similar to many RPG games out there.

Start off with a crap car, and most likely not much driving sense except your lack of fear (Try racing for real, and you'll see what I mean, its a game), and whatever behind the wheel experience you yourself may have. At first it seems easy, you can bump your way through the levels. Basically not very sim or racing like for a game of its expected caliber.

Keep Playing.

You unlock more levels, more customization options, more cars, more tracks, and eventually more challenges. As you rank up the game suddenly welcomes you into the "real world" of racing. Damage has to be repaired, you can total your car, and you have to keep it in good condition and tuned if you're into that sort of thing. Eventually you hit a wall, and you need to get more XP to unlock more cars and challenges. The tracks get harder, more weather is introduced, and damage is fully realized.

Now you have the game that people expected when you first get into it. Honestly, once you get there, its hard as hell, and most people would have cried off and traded it in after 5 minutes of pure suck. Once you get used to it, and work on your skills, you start to feel like you've learned some serious driving techniques, rather than just smashed your way through it, like you did in the beginning.

If you've played it, you're more likely to agree with the Author's article, if you haven't, and its really easy to tell you've merely dabbled in it at best or are unobservant. You'll just spout off about mario kart. Enjoy your kart games, I'm going to go back to my racing sim.

 

[Tom Goldman]

One real huge problem.

RPG= ROLE playing Game.

What ROLE are you actually playing? Because you seem to be suggesting you're playing the car?

An awesome racing dude.

But the bits you're upgrading is the car. That's like saying that you're an awesome fighter who just keeps getting a more awesome sword.

After a point, you're just roleplaying the equipment. Because all the "awesome racing dude" does is move it. He's got no role to play.

A Car Playing Game I could go with, but there's nothing to your "Awesome Racing Dude". Just a blank slate that stays blank.

If we're talking that way, then every game is a RPG. Which has been argued many times before.

Is Half Life an RPG, by the same standard? Is Sonic?

Half-Life and Sonic don't have any notable character progression, so not in my mind. Why is an awesome racing dude not a role? He's constantly building himself up, completing new challenges, and becoming a better racer. Is that blank?

Im sorry, but i have to agree with Root. Theres no RPG to it. The exp system might as well not exist, you dont accually UNLOCK anything by leveling up. They just tell you its ok to buy certen cars.

And "awesome racing dude" has no role. Hes never featured, never shown, has no name, and no connection to the game. He might aswell be "awesome racing robot", or "awesome racing hamster". An RPG requires you playing a role. There is not role here to be had. Theres no dialogue between him and anyone else. They might as well leave the drivers seat empty!

I see your point. Really I was just trying to discuss whether it was possible for GT5 to be an RPG or not. I wonder whether you actually need an in-your-face story for every RPG, or an in-your-face role, or if it's possible for the gameplay to create one through the player's actions.

 

[linkvegeta]

just because you level up does not a game an RPG, games like fallout 3 are on the verge of being an RPG but have now received their own category of RPS (role playing shooters), but there is no role in GT5, its just a racing sim with a feature of levels.

The RPS seems to be people that like story but don't want to be lumped with the JRPG fans. In other words, you're caring too much about classification.

There is nothing wrong with classification, and it is important because how can one say i like RPG's when its littered with games claiming to be RPG's when they are not. but if games are going to mix they should get their own classification because its important so that there is less confusion.

 

[kouriichi]

Sounds like more of an RPG than Mass Effect 2 (the so-called "RPG" of the year) already.

Err..... how is it more of an RPG then Mass Effect?
The only RPG element to the game is the fact you gain EXP. Theres no interaction between characters, theres no story.... infact, there are NO CHARACTERS.

In GT5 you take the role of Driver. You race. It doesnt say way. You level up, which litterally earns you nothing but the right to gain more EXP. All the cars can be upgraded, but only from s short list of things that applys to all cars. You gain no stats, have no choice in gear besides, "My car is red" or, "My car is blue with New tires", and to top it all off, theres no progression. You win races, you get new races. Thats not really progression though, because 90% of the races you unlock are on the same tracks as the ones you were just playing.

Atleast in Mass Effect you have ROLE to play.

 

[Amnestic]

If you've played it, you're more likely to agree with the Author's article, if you haven't, and its really easy to tell you've merely dabbled in it at best or are unobservant. You'll just spout off about mario kart. Enjoy your kart games, I'm going to go back to my racing sim.

Limiting your play at the start of the game does not an RPG make. Nor does expecting the player to be better skilled the further they get into the game.

You may as well argue that Command and Conquer games are RPGs since you only start off with one or two units for the first mission.

 

[Popido]

An awesome racing dude.

Its ok Tom. They'll start to make RPGs one of these days again. We'll just have to keep waiting.

Stay strong lil'guy.

 

[Juggern4ut20]

Yo, dude. The guy got carried away during the Festivus, no need to rape him.

(But you're not wrong.)

Hahaha. True, I just feel that articles like these that boil RPGs down to leveling and equipment cheapen the genre as a whole. I concede that it isn't the easiest to write articles that catch people's attention and that this is probably just a hook to talk about how great GT5 is instead of any real claim, but he could have done a comparison without throwing out the title "One of 2010's Top RPGs?"

 

[KEM10]

just because you level up does not a game an RPG, games like fallout 3 are on the verge of being an RPG but have now received their own category of RPS (role playing shooters), but there is no role in GT5, its just a racing sim with a feature of levels.

The RPS seems to be people that like story but don't want to be lumped with the JRPG fans. In other words, you're caring too much about classification.

There is nothing wrong with classification, and it is important because how can one say i like RPG's when its littered with games claiming to be RPG's when they are not. but if games are going to mix they should get their own classification because its important so that there is less confusion.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_283/8400-Introducing-The-Escapists-Genre-Wheel

Problem solved

 

[kouriichi]

One real huge problem.

RPG= ROLE playing Game.

What ROLE are you actually playing? Because you seem to be suggesting you're playing the car?

An awesome racing dude.

But the bits you're upgrading is the car. That's like saying that you're an awesome fighter who just keeps getting a more awesome sword.

After a point, you're just roleplaying the equipment. Because all the "awesome racing dude" does is move it. He's got no role to play.

A Car Playing Game I could go with, but there's nothing to your "Awesome Racing Dude". Just a blank slate that stays blank.

If we're talking that way, then every game is a RPG. Which has been argued many times before.

Is Half Life an RPG, by the same standard? Is Sonic?

Half-Life and Sonic don't have any notable character progression, so not in my mind. Why is an awesome racing dude not a role? He's constantly building himself up, completing new challenges, and becoming a better racer. Is that blank?

Im sorry, but i have to agree with Root. Theres no RPG to it. The exp system might as well not exist, you dont accually UNLOCK anything by leveling up. They just tell you its ok to buy certen cars.

And "awesome racing dude" has no role. Hes never featured, never shown, has no name, and no connection to the game. He might aswell be "awesome racing robot", or "awesome racing hamster". An RPG requires you playing a role. There is not role here to be had. Theres no dialogue between him and anyone else. They might as well leave the drivers seat empty!

I see your point. Really I was just trying to discuss whether it was possible for GT5 to be an RPG or not. I wonder whether you actually need an in-your-face story for every RPG, or an in-your-face role, or if it's possible for the gameplay to create one through the player's actions.

not one bit xD
The entire time i played i felt disconnected. Like a bot designed to grind more hardcore then in WoW.

Sure, i could have pretended i was Speed racer, trying to be the best driver of all time. But id have to force myself to. For the player to make a story, there really needs to be a base for one. I mean, let me compare it to the latest Need For Speed. You can play as the Cops, or the street racers. Your Role is instantly defined. Your eather a cop, trying to clean the streets, or a racer, trying to win piles of cash for "Hoes and B*tches". There is no real story to the game, but there are atleast roles. Good and Evil. ((by general definition anyway))
But in GT5, you play Racer. Your job is "race". You "drive car fast on laps for money for which car purchasing for more race". Theres no story to it and no roles.

 

[Xersues]

One real huge problem.

RPG= ROLE playing Game.

What ROLE are you actually playing? Because you seem to be suggesting you're playing the car?

Completely agree. Apparently, somehow the attributes of a RPG have left out the most important aspect of a RPG. THE ROLE PLAYING. Allow me to refute this ridiculous claim point by point.

A. Playing as the car is not role playing. Role playing involves putting yourself into the shoes of a character and making choices in game that affect the story. I'll get to there being no story later, but what choices do you make in game that define your character and make them any different than any other character in the game? None.

B. Driving races are not the same as quests. I like the line that it's not smashing goblins or disarming traps. I like it because smashing goblins and disarming traps is NOT what a quest is. A quest is a search or expedition made in order to find or obtain something. Saving a damsel in distress is the quest, smashing goblins and disarming traps is the means in which that quest is fulfilled. Saying the race itself is the quest is equally moronic because there is no distinction between your character and the other characters.

C. There is no story. I mean the line says it all, "The story is what you make it" which means "there is no story unless you create one". Yea, if you make up a story in your mind about who you are and who the other drivers are, then you can create a made up story for yourself. You can also do that for any game ever, that does not make them all RPGs. Another important aspect of an RPG in my mind is that the main character has to have an active and influential impact on the story, which does not happen.

D. "it also has to have a form of character progression". Changing your helmet in Dragon Age is not 'character progression'. In fact, your character's equipment is independent of their character. Please take any sort of story telling classes before making such stretched comparisons.

This piece of garbage is probably the worst article I have ever read on the escapist if not in general. Does GT5 have RPG aspects incorporated into it? Sure. But to make the argument that it IS an RPG and is actually one of the best RPGs of the year is so inane that I don't see how this article could even get the go ahead to be written.

Wow, I'm going to assume you didn't play the game. Let me help you:

A. Racing, is a real life activity. The role you are playing is a Race Car Driver, more specifically, some one that is trying to be a professional race car driver. There IS no character. You pick a representation for yourself. Because it's YOU they are talking to. Not some elf, not some made up human. They specifically refer to YOU.

B. Your quest, is to gain pro status, as that is the main objective given to you. Many RPGs have singular "quests". Pokemon is a good example, you must "Become the best, and catch them all". There are several challenges given to you to complete. Very specific tasks. Your quest is fulfilled by completing the challenge given to you at hand by several different professional racers throughout the game. Yes there are races, but there are also specific challenges where you ARE COMPARED to other drivers and ranked accordingly. I don't mean NPCs either, also live statistics. The distinction is skill. Again, you're a race car driver.

C. There are a series of short non-fiction stories. The history of each track, car, challenge, and even tutorials teach you about driving. Its a REAL concept, NOT made out of fiction.

D. Because there is no character, only YOU, its YOUR progression. Suck at driving? You cannot make it very far, and you'll be stuck doing the challenges until you learn it. You are the progression. Racing is a finesse and a straight forward concept. You tweak your car, finances, and skills until you get it right. Its not just about the car, but about progressing yourself. They point this out in the game several times.

Where do you get off attacking the article and the company that wrote it without playing the game, or at least opening your mind to why it was written this way. Does the concept of a non-fiction RPG really seem so far fetched? You're an aspiring race car driver, you drive in races to get better, there are several challenges to help you get there, and you can compete with other people and tons of statistics are tracked to SHOW your progression. It may be a stretch or light on the concept, but its really there if you play it.

 

[kouriichi]

just because you level up does not a game an RPG, games like fallout 3 are on the verge of being an RPG but have now received their own category of RPS (role playing shooters), but there is no role in GT5, its just a racing sim with a feature of levels.

The RPS seems to be people that like story but don't want to be lumped with the JRPG fans. In other words, you're caring too much about classification.

There is nothing wrong with classification, and it is important because how can one say i like RPG's when its littered with games claiming to be RPG's when they are not. but if games are going to mix they should get their own classification because its important so that there is less confusion.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_283/8400-Introducing-The-Escapists-Genre-Wheel

Problem solved

No, that raises a problem. Because it has "action" seperate from "Strategy" when both are deepy connected.
Not to mention that RPGs deal with both "Confilct" and "Exploration" together.
So really, the Genre Wheel is broken. I can think of several racing games that involve "Brawling" and even "Shooter".

 

[linkvegeta]

just because you level up does not a game an RPG, games like fallout 3 are on the verge of being an RPG but have now received their own category of RPS (role playing shooters), but there is no role in GT5, its just a racing sim with a feature of levels.

The RPS seems to be people that like story but don't want to be lumped with the JRPG fans. In other words, you're caring too much about classification.

There is nothing wrong with classification, and it is important because how can one say i like RPG's when its littered with games claiming to be RPG's when they are not. but if games are going to mix they should get their own classification because its important so that there is less confusion.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_283/8400-Introducing-The-Escapists-Genre-Wheel

Problem solved

Sorry but that does not solve the problem because the problem is GT5 trying to be a RPG, IT is not a RPG in anyway shape or form, you might as well say its an RPG because its 3D, those types of comparisons are bad.
I'm a fan of the escapist but that article is a load of crap. maybe because im old school and have been playing games from the very beginning but that is just sad.

 

[Something Amyss]

One real huge problem.

RPG= ROLE playing Game.

What ROLE are you actually playing? Because you seem to be suggesting you're playing the car?

I guess the point is that Gran Turismo is the retarded Japanese step child of the RPG.

Actually, I'm pretty sure most JRPGs are the retarded Japanese step child of the RPG.

But still, point taken.

Should I dust off the old "but you technically play a ROLE in every game" canard? That one's always fun. XD