Greece Busts Game Dev "Spies"
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Reminds me of the planespotter arrests some time ago. The Greeks are apparently a bit secretive when it comes to hardware.
This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard myself, I can't begin to understand what these guys were thinking. Military bases are secret for a reason, and honestly the very topic of their game pretty much defines why you don't want anyone (except the military) to know what exactly is there in case of you know... actually needing the military to operate in an offensive/defensive capacity.
To be honest I think part of the problem is that the US and other nations have gotten too lax in their laws for treason and the like, and in putting pressure on nations who take action of this kind, leading to people doing stupid things that they probably shouldn't have been doing to begin with. It's one of the reasons why harsh laws sometimes need to be applied in somewhat silly situations... consistincy within the big picture. I wouldn't be surprised if these game developers did what they did in part under the exepectations that if their own goverment wouldn't just get them sprung, first world countries like the US would send a bunch of teary eyed liberals and free information organizations to their defense.
It also occurs to me that spies don't generally go around with a giant "spy" sign on their chest, they use covers for a reason. The story of doing research for a video game like this would actually not be the worst cover I could think of to excuse being around military installations, or looking at hardware.
In this case I probably wouldn't be too upset if they faced a firing squad of whatever on principle. Basically if they are guilty they deserve it, if they are innocent consider it darwin's law in action (give them a Darwin Award, and put it on their graves)... win/win.
To be honest I think part of the problem is that the US and other nations have gotten too lax in their laws for treason and the like, and in putting pressure on nations who take action of this kind, leading to people doing stupid things that they probably shouldn't have been doing to begin with. It's one of the reasons why harsh laws sometimes need to be applied in somewhat silly situations... consistincy within the big picture. I wouldn't be surprised if these game developers did what they did in part under the exepectations that if their own goverment wouldn't just get them sprung, first world countries like the US would send a bunch of teary eyed liberals and free information organizations to their defense.
It also occurs to me that spies don't generally go around with a giant "spy" sign on their chest, they use covers for a reason. The story of doing research for a video game like this would actually not be the worst cover I could think of to excuse being around military installations, or looking at hardware.
In this case I probably wouldn't be too upset if they faced a firing squad of whatever on principle. Basically if they are guilty they deserve it, if they are innocent consider it darwin's law in action (give them a Darwin Award, and put it on their graves)... win/win.
Or... not... to all of that...Therumancer said:This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard myself, I can't begin to understand what these guys were thinking. Military bases are secret for a reason, and honestly the very topic of their game pretty much defines why you don't want anyone (except the military) to know what exactly is there in case of you know... actually needing the military to operate in an offensive/defensive capacity.
To be honest I think part of the problem is that the US and other nations have gotten too lax in their laws for treason and the like, and in putting pressure on nations who take action of this kind, leading to people doing stupid things that they probably shouldn't have been doing to begin with. It's one of the reasons why harsh laws sometimes need to be applied in somewhat silly situations... consistincy within the big picture. I wouldn't be surprised if these game developers did what they did in part under the exepectations that if their own goverment wouldn't just get them sprung, first world countries like the US would send a bunch of teary eyed liberals and free information organizations to their defense.
It also occurs to me that spies don't generally go around with a giant "spy" sign on their chest, they use covers for a reason. The story of doing research for a video game like this would actually not be the worst cover I could think of to excuse being around military installations, or looking at hardware.
In this case I probably wouldn't be too upset if they faced a firing squad of whatever on principle. Basically if they are guilty they deserve it, if they are innocent consider it darwin's law in action (give them a Darwin Award, and put it on their graves)... win/win.
... Yeah
OT:
Arma 4: set in current-day everywhere.
Spies in all the countries.
It takes place on a Greek island, so obviously they want the Greek military involved in the game. But yeah, they may have been able to ask nicely, but Greece is pretty paranoid so that may of not worked, they may have arrested them for asking to see the base for all we know >.>Waaghpowa said:
Did you have a permit to write that? That sounds like something you'd need a permit for. I need a permit to get the modem to get the permit to get on this site.Irridium said:
OT: It's not like they can get away with it because "I was only stealing this money so I could build a house, not buy drugs!". The purpose comes down to that matter, although on that scale with all the military applications, it's probably pretty important to be distinguished as innocents.
Sounds like poor decision making on Bohemia Interactive's part.
I can't wait for the stealth part where you have to escape without killing anyonerembrandtqeinstein said:
I sorry what? Who cares about your military bases, it has been peace time for years now, with nothing indicating there will be a war. I guess there still is some tension with turkey but still. And before people say nato operations in the middle east, yeah I don't count that since it is not against a developed country really.
Wow, just wow. Since you don't know what they were talking about in the article, you mock it?DVS BSTrD said:
For your information, an Artificer isn't some magical profession from video games, its Latin for a skilled craftsman.
And "Genius Loci" comes from classical Roman (IE copied from the ancient Greeks) religion term "protective spirit of a place". In modern western usage, it means "spirit of a place". So if someone goes to record/photograph the 'genius loci' of a place, it means they're trying to capture the spirit of a place, IE trying to create a realistic environments for the game, which ARMA is known for.
Got news for you: There hasn't been a time on this planet in recent history (IE the last 200 years+) where a war hasn't raged somewhere, then you have to throw in terrorism into the plot.Drejer43 said:
So, by your definition, because its 'peace time', (which is a misnomer, since anyone who's lived with someone who's served/serving, has served in, knows anything about, the military knows that there's only two times: Conflict and Preparing for/warding against the next conflict.) Greece should throw its national security out the window?
In last 10 years alone the country has been the victim of several DOZEN terrorist attacks,
Do your research, because you don't know anything.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Greece
Now that is dedication.
It was also a monumentally stupid thing to do.
Not only was the whole venture pointless, because the level of fidelity sought by the developers is unnecessary for a game, but also, what exactly did the devs expected would happen if they got caught? It was an unnecessary risk, and it sounds like they didn't think things through.
Wait, what?
It was also a monumentally stupid thing to do.
Not only was the whole venture pointless, because the level of fidelity sought by the developers is unnecessary for a game, but also, what exactly did the devs expected would happen if they got caught? It was an unnecessary risk, and it sounds like they didn't think things through.
As opposed to those countries in which suspected spies are given a pat on the back for their effort?Krantos said:
Wait, what?
Marek ?paněl (CEO of Bohemia Interactive) said today that those two guys were there just on vacation and that those photos don't have anything to do with the development of ARMA III. He also stressed that they only use publicly available materials, such as satellite photos, and would never break any laws. He is certain that this whole affair is just an "unfortunate misunderstanding".
Source (in Czech):http://www.novinky.cz/zahranicni/evropa/278521-cechum-zadrzenym-v-recku-za-spionaz-hrozi-az-dvacet-let-vezeni.html
Source (in Czech):http://www.novinky.cz/zahranicni/evropa/278521-cechum-zadrzenym-v-recku-za-spionaz-hrozi-az-dvacet-let-vezeni.html
Sorry it was really anoying meGilhelmi said:
.OT: Stupid people are stupid. Channels exist for a reason.
TY, Grammar is very important for accuracy. (I know it sounds like I am being sarcastic but I am not, I truly believe this)Blazing Steel said:Sorry it was really anoying meGilhelmi said:
OT: Stupid people are stupid. Channels exist for a reason.
No "Limnos" is how "Λήμνος" is usually transliterated by modern Greeks.ZeroAX said:
It is neither fictionalised as "Limnos" as this article claiems nor "Limnos" is how it's spelled in Greek as you claim.
Eta, H or η as a vowel had in ancient Greek the sound of long ε but then at some time changed(along with various other vowel-letter) to having the sound of ι.
This is the phaenomenon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iotacism or http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%99%CF%89%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BA%CE%B9%CF%83%CE%BC%CF%8C%CF%82
So when most modern Greeks (or others) trannsliterate "Λήμνος" as Limnos they're trying to represent the "ι" (kind'a' short "ee" in English) sound;they don't write "Lemnos" because in their minds acoustically and coustic-optically "η"="ι" while "ε"=epsilon="e" (as in let's say Italian) does not sound "ι" and its family of letters ,it would be totally different.One of the many problems of course with this is that most Greeks transliterate in a fictional imagined non consistent kind'a' English alphabet.What we write in this fictional system-alphabet does not represent the sounds an English speaker would read and hear reading what has been written.
Most Greeks also don't know that ancient Greek pronunciation was different than the modern one(in fact there were plenty of different pronunciations through time and space).
On the other hand transliterating Λήμνος as Lemnos is more historically correct and certainly not fictional.It's how e.g. δημοκρατία - demokratia is translated in many languages.In English
it's democrasy ,not dimocrasy,nor thimocrasy (note to foreigners while Delta,Δ in ancient Greek sounded like "d" in modern Greek its sound is "th" as in English "this", "that" or "though").
But this is also not consistent; foreigners sometimes pronounce pronounce transilterated in this way words, closer to how ancient Greeks would have sounded pronouncing a Greek word than how modern Greeks pronounce it,sometimes closer to modern than ancient and most of the time totally different from both ancient and modern Greek pronunciation and closer to what their own languages and alphabets sound(also true for Latin words).E.g. Θουκυδίδης->Thucydides pronounced in English.
In classical Attic (I won't deal here with either duration or tone)
it would sound like T'u-ky-di-des .
Th=T'= T aspired(something like word initial T in English)
u like Latin or (more or less) Italian "u"
K instead of "s" sounding English "c"
Y as in (more or less) French "y"
d as in d
I as in (more or less) Italian or Latin i
d as in d
e as in (more or less) Italian e (long)
s as in s.
In modern Greek
it sounds like Thu-k~i-thi-this .
Th= As in English "th" in English "Thought"
u like (more or less) Latin or Italian "u"
K~ "k" instead of "s" sounding English "c" but a palatalised one.
I as in (more or less) Italian or Latin i.This is NOT the stressed vowel-syllable.
th as in (more or less) English "th" in "this"
I as in (more or less) Italian or Latin i .This IS the stressed vowel and syllable.
th as in (more or less) English "th" in "this"
e as in (more or less) Italian e (long)
s as in English "s" or between English "s" and "sh".
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Greek
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Greek_phonology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_phonology
Funny;I thought we spend so much money in the military since for ever because we're in a turbubelent region having very friendly and energetic neighbours.Blablahb said:
But I guess I'm wrong;you must be right.After all the Turkish Military Forces are high-tech ones, top notch, while the Greek ones throw rocks and Greek Fire so why would e.g. the former want to have a video game wherefrom they could have gratis first rate depiction of Greek (national border area) military installations and wherein they could easily play in order to memorise fully how to move around in them?
Also not obeying the (Penal etc) Law is a crime only for "European" or advanced countries' citizens in their countries and especially for non "European" or advanced countries' citizens in "European" or "advanced" countries.Since Greece is not a "European" country,"Europeans" can't break the Greek Law cause they don't have to abide by or follow Greek Law;it's not really law for them;it's not even advisoral;it's more like something barbaric for and of the locals, the natives...
In fact,based at least on media and other reports, they(the company, don't know about the employees) knew it's illegal but went on to send them anyway;and then tried to cover up their tracks(thread shut down) and moreover afterwards lied(yeah sure they were on vacation sightseeing) when in fact the arrestees had in the beginning said that they WERE collecting pictures and footage.Dusty Donuts said:
I guess basic common sense when in troubled countries,International Law and customs, Greek or other countries' (other than their own) Law and National Security is irrelevant to some people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia_Interactive#Bohemia_Interactive_employees.27_alleged_espionage_arrest_on_Lemnos