TWRule said:
I've already read and understood the quote (as best as I can without further context), and I'd say your grasp of it is decent enough. However, I'll have to disagree on the nature of the bond shared by family members. Members of a true family don't just protect each others's interests (regardless of what they may be) by taking personal insult at every external transgression (much in the same way a nation might send out the military to protect its citizens or soldiers, no matter how divided the nation is in concerns/interests).
Those were basic examples. They were not to be taken at face value, but to serve as simple concepts to be extrapolated from.
Instead, they keep the common interests that are shared a communal fashion where that which is shared stands on its own and all members of the family either share or turn away from (and thus leave the family) those shared concerns. They try their best to keep each other in the fold, of course, but they may morally chastise one another for going astray.
You repeat, in different words, most of the point of the Pratchett quote. Well done! In essence, I think, it is meant to convey one taking on the responsibilty of seeing to others' wellbeing by claiming them as one's own and making them part of one's self.
For example, a devout Christian family, united by their faith, might actually chastise one member for defending another with violence instead of turning the other cheek. In this case, what's at stake isn't anyone's ego, but the shared values (Christian religious salvation).
And how is this not an action based in self-interest? They chastise themselves for not properly upholding their moral code. There is disappointment and embarassment among the family that one of theirs did not do what they thought was the proper action, fearing what it could mean for them as well as the family member who was violent. Self-interest is not always based in survival.
So your family may end up being galvanized by taking personal offense to each threat to a family member (more like a mob clan), but it won't be a true family unless they also have those shared values among themselves.
As I said before, those were basic examples meant to be extrapolated.
It's within that internal moral/ethical commitment - rather than the commitment to respond to external threats - that love resides, I'd say.
And again you and I are saying the same thing, but in different ways. I would consider my take a little more honest concerning human nature, but I digress.
Allow me to clear the air here, as I think you are operating under a misconception. Please allow me to correct it: Selfish =/= bad
For the sake of example, let us assume there are two kinds of selfish actions. For simplicity's sake, I'll call them Good selfish and Bad selfish.
A Good selfish action is an action that will benefit more than oneself, but one sees will result in an end benefit to oneself. For example: volunteering at a soup kitchen for homeless youth. That is the donation of a person's valuable seconds, minutes, and even hours of their life to help people that may not even be grateful. However, this will result in feelings of satisfaction at having done the "right thing" within said person's moral code. The end result is as beneficial to the person performing the act as to those being served by it.
A Bad selfish action is an action that fits with what you're thinking. An action that is only good for a single person (or group) and detrimental to all others. For example: Starting a war to keep the price of oil high.
While it is highly debatable since the concept of truth is ultimately subjective, here is a truth I have found. In keeping with the theme of the thread, it too was a rather grim realization...
There is no such thing as altruism. It is a lie. A good lie, and a useful one at that, but a lie nonetheless. No one does anything unless it benefits themselves in some way (this does not mean that what is done is always to one's sole benefit). Many people don't realize they do this, because they accept the lie, and that's fine. Ignorance is bliss, after all.
To quote the great Robert A. Heinlein, "Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception; the root of all evil."
One can be kind, generous, and even a martyr, and it is still serving their interest to be so, because that is what they want to be. That is Good selfishness. The selfishness that brings in others and makes families and communities.
. I said "scientistic" - referring to the perspective that places science on a pedestal as that which hands down the Truth and will deliver humanity to salvation - not scientific. The delusion is taking such things for granted (not in the psychological sense).
