Gripes About Bioshock Infinite

[romxxii]

Though I admit, I am quite concerned about the guys with the burst guns/flak cannons. I see a lot of deaths in my future.

Burst guns aren't that bad.
It's the snipers and volley/flak guns that really mess you up.
The earlier instantly shatters your shield and takes a bit of your health away (a second shot will kill you or bring you to the brink of death), the latter takes about two/three hits to accomplish the same effect and people who use them are much more common and durable than snipers.

Worse, the flak/volley guys seem to have as good a sight radius as the snipers, and will carpet bomb you if you so much as stick out a head. If you have any plans of out-sniping them, you'd better be a good snap shot.

Honestly, for all the depth to the narrative, the combat is just frustrating. Without wishing to spoil, it's easy to build yourself into a corner. If you enter the final battle without the right weapon/vigor upgrades and gear equips, then you might as well reload from an earlier save.

Then there's the sticky ground movement, extremely contextual skyhook activation, and Halo-style weapon loadout.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

I see that a lot of people had trouble with the Siren fights. Here's how I did it, and it was pretty easy

When the Siren goes to spawn her lackeys, she'll usually summon them in a big cluster while floating over them. As soon as they spawn, hit the lackeys with Bucking Bronco, but don't bother shooting them; the Bucking Bronco is just to keep them in the air and out of your way. With them floating, you're free to open fire on the Siren for a short time (the shotgun worked very well). Bucking Bronco is a very cheap Vigor, so you shouldn't have any trouble if the fight drags on a little. It also helps if you have the upgrade that increases the time that they're kept floating.

OT: As for my complaints, I actually have very few. I would have rather had a full weapon-wheel rather than a two-weapon limit, but I did like how it occasionally forced me to improvise when ammo got low. While perfectly serviceable, I also found the weapons to be rather bland in comparison to the arsenals of Bioshock 1 & 2, especially since there's no longer any visual changes to show that you're weapon has been upgraded.

I really don't have any big complaints with the story. The ending was a little confusing at first, but I think I've got it now, and now that I do, I actually quite like it. Elizabeth's emotional changes also seem pretty abrupt, but the story is paced so well that it's a very minor issue.

My biggest issue is actually with the Vigors. Sure, they were cool, but it often didn't feel like I needed to use them very much. In the first Bioshock, I was frantically switching between plasmids and weapons; my lightning bolt was as crucial to my survival as my revolver. In Infinite, it felt more like "Oh yeah, I remember, I can throw fire. That would be kind of cool, I guess. Might as well do that for once", rather than using them out of actual need. Of course, there are exceptions, such as the Siren scenario I mentioned above, but for the most part, I didn't need them all that much. And in combat arenas when I did need to use them more frequently, I only ever needed to rely on one or two. I also didn't like that the charged version for most of them was "set trap", especially when the Murder of Crows upgraded trap pretty much renders the rest of the traps obsolete.

Despite how much I typed, I really do love the game. Just not quite as much as I liked Bioshock 1. Frankly, it would take A LOT for a game to reach that level, and I admire how close Infinite came to that.

 

[romxxii]

OK then, here are a few things that sort of bothered me:

Vigors. I understand why they are in the game from a gameplay perspective and pseudo-magical powers are by now a staple of the Shock games. The game also explains why they exist if you scrounge around and find the right Voxophones.

But thematically, I find they don't fit with the setting. You have this classist society of deeply religious ultraconservatives that are all about racial purity and the inherent superiority of the white man. Yet everybody seems completely fine with the drinks that give you magical powers, essentially messing around with God's creation and allowing anybody to become a superman. It's a minor gripe and didn't really take away from my enjoyment of the game, but still.

I thought so too, until the major shocking swerve hit. Then it suddenly made sense. Remember:

Spoiler

one of the things that defines Columbia is how it's borrowed things from other timelines, other universes. Hence, Beach Boys, Cyndi Lauper, quantum levitation, and drink-based superpowers, all before 1920.

Spoiler: About Songbird

Why is it that Songbird can casually smash through buildings and airships with impunity, but a relatively small amount of water pressure can already damage it? It only seems to affect his eyes, but it feels strange for a creature that serves as an unstoppable juggernaut to have a weakness like large, very vulnerable eyes. What if he attacks something and a piece of debris hits them? It was probably to give Songbird some kind of Achilles heel and a means of killing it eventually, but something that nagged at me the moment you and it drop into Battleship Bay.

Spoiler: my answer

There's this thing at the bottom of the ocean called pressure. Sure, Songbird may have the claws and the arm power to shred zeppelins and towers. That doesn't mean that its little organic brain can withstand more than 500 feet of ocean pressing down on it.

 

[Magmarock]

I've been playing the new Bioshock and I just can't get into it for some reason and I'm not sure why.

 

[Karoshi]

Okay so I have a question about Bioshock Infinte's story that has been bugging me non-stop. It's kinda spoilery so I will put it under a cut.

Spoiler

If Comstock really wanted Elizabeth to follow in his footsteps and become his heir, why did he lock her in a tower all her life and never speak to her? It's clearly established that she only knew Comstock through her books and she finds out only through the Hall of Heroes that she is his daughter, but why did he hide this from her? If he wanted her to follow his beliefs and eventually rule Columbia, why didn't he raise her to do so? Why didn't he act like a father and instill his values onto her by growing up with her and teaching those values? Was his plan to just wait until she got older and then torture her into agreeing with his beliefs?

Someone please explain his reasoning to me because its driving me insane and is becoming a big gripe for me.

Spoiler

Comstock was using the Tears to foresee the future and he knew, that whatever happens, the false Shepard will come and take his Lamb. Most likely he also saw that Elizabeth would not agree with burning down the world despite whatever he might teach her, and thus is was just easier to hide her away in a tower.

And eventually break her, so that she may fullfil his plan.

 

[Pebkio]

...and then I got the sniper rifle, and I started breezing through fights again. In fact, I'm having easier times with some fights than I did in normal. I even had enough monies to pick up Possession for Less. But here's something, possession sucks. It doesn't last even long enough to hardly secure one kill from my new ally. But what it does do: It kill rocket and flak cannon asshats in one go. Meanwhile they don't shoot at me as they quickly turn back into non-allies. That's it though, and I've noticed that my new allies are weaker than when they were enemies. I noticed it was far more useful in early-game stuff because it meant I wasn't constantly getting flanked.

Unfortunately all the big hitters don't feel like killing themselves, and the effect lasts for maybe 4 seconds... just long enough for them to notice another enemy to attack, AND the damage I do to them is lessened while they're my ally. So I don't even bother to use them on anything else but rocket/flak guys. I found that the shielding was plenty useless in most fights... I've actually been using all the infusions to boost my salt so I can use more crowd control things like possession and bucking bronco. Especially bucking bronco. And I'd have been lost without my scavenging shirt. I noticed that there is probably a way to do this with rail gear too (especially the final fight), but otherwise my biggest complaint is this:

There isn't a lot you can actually specialize in that will actually get you through the game in 1999 mode. Not that I can see, anyway.

---

I'm specializing in sniping with crowd control for the normals that rush me. Handyman fights are going to be the hardest thing to contend with.

I think you could do it with skyway gear if you don't mind frenetic jumping hither and yon. Siren fights will probably mess you up the most.

A nice, straightforward, machine gun with all the upgrades might work, but not with bucking bronco. Maybe the fully upgraded murder of crows might see you through. I don't see any big weakness for any particular fights... but no real strength either.

Other than those... the details could change in between, but really it doesn't seem like you'd be getting the achievements. Waiting to main the hand cannon, or any of the vox weapons might take too long. The pistol is a big ol' joke after chapter 5. The carbine is alright if you're into the shorter-range, less damage, single fire type of gun. The shotgun is what I'm using for the backup crowd-control... but to main with it in 1999... no. The rpg doesn't carry near enough ammo for the sheer amount of enemies you have to face. The flak gun has that AND is hard to aim at further targets. And relying entirely on vigors, when only one of them does large damage, might work... but only if you could make money rain from the sky so you could buy at least four upgrades without dying over and over because your guns don't have any upgrades; if you buy the upgrades for any guns... you just won't have the money for all your vigor upgrades.

 

[Do4600]

I found many problems with this game. Overall though I enjoyed it, it was good game, but the whys and hows are rather weak and a few mechanics they used were simply poor choices.

The reason I found the first Bioshock game so enjoyable is because the atmosphere, the story, the mechanics and the environment were tightly woven together and explained in a way that enhanced all parts of the whole.

Spoiler: This is not the case in Infinite(spoilers)

First of all, the Vigors. In Bioshock the reason plasmids exist is because they can actually serve a useful purpose. For instance, all the advertisements for the flame plasmid feature a man lighting a woman's cigarette, ""My daddy's SMARTER than Einstein, STRONGER than Hercules and lights a fire with a SNAP of his fingers. Are you as good as my daddy, Mister?" Two of these things are certainly desirable traits and lighting a fire with a snap is rather cool. Another poster, "Health and happiness through genetics." genetic intervention has become a way of life in Rapture, who uses vigors besides weaponized freaks in Infinite?

In Infinite there is no reason for the citizens to be able to control robots, the fire vigor is obviously a weaponized ball of fire which those fair goers have absolutely no reason to buy, the trade of them doesn't make any sense and the development of them doesn't make any sense either. It smacks of a video game mechanic instead of a plausible part of a story and that weakens the perception of the city as an entity and dulls immersion.

Another thing in this same vein are the handy-men, what the hell are they supposed to be doing, what are they and why? The only time we see them are when they are either smashing the shit out of our faces or standing on the stage at the beginning of the game. Again the only reason they exist is to be a game enemy, they aren't a part of Columbia because we never see them outside combat. We don't even see them moving those cargo containers we see zipping around the useless skyline system in Columbia(more on that later] The big-daddies at least were to serve as guardians to the little sisters who harvest the highly addictive chemical that rapture ran on.

Why is the skyline system useless? There are many parts of the game where there are skyline systems that don't connect to a main one, they are small closed loops in places where there is no cargo to transfer, again it's a conspicuous game element that hasn't been worked properly into the environment.

Why is Comstock and Columbia so incredibly racist yet Booker is not at all?

Why do we know little to nothing about Comstock?

Anybody else think Comstock's reason for wanting to destroy the earth is a little hollow, maybe to the point of just making him the antagonist because he had to be?

Why do these people worship Washington as a kind of deity yet put his face on a mini-gun wielding death robot?

These are just some of my problems with the feel of the society in Columbia, it doesn't feel coherent, we don't have a deeper explanation or understanding of a purpose behind the things or characters in this game, they are just video game elements being masqueraded as video game elements. They are far more conspicuous in Infinite than they are in Bioshock

I'd write a longer post, but there's so much more to address and it's already very early.

 

[IrishSkullpanda]

A few things people seem to have missed (spoilers in case someone made it this far into the thread without spoiling)

Regarding Elizabeth at the ending- You need to remember that her full power was held in check by the Siphon. Once all her power was at her disposal, Elizabeth became essential a full blown god. The Tears she could create led to every single conceivable universe that branches from every single conceivable decision regarding anything anybody made, and could see into and travel to every point in any time in any of the universes she could see, which is all of them. She's literally omnipotent and omniscient. However, as she is the product of a loop caused by the interaction of multiple universes, all stemming from all the universes that Booker became Comstock, founded Columbia, and funded Rosalind Lucete's experiments into visiting alternate universes. The travel into alternate universes only exists because Rosalind Exists in the universes that Comstock and Columbia exists- and if there is no Comstock, there's no Columbia, no experiments, no interaction between the multiverse, no stealing Anna. The ending is EVERY universe that has an Elizabeth (remembering she is a product of every universe created by Comstock's presence) gaining that power and using it to drown every Booker in their universes before he could become Comstock, thus entirely removing from the entirety of the multiverse every universe that Booker chose to become Comstock and entirely breaking the (admittedly specific case of) interaction between those universes. Since all the universes that ever result in Comstock have been eradicated, "Elizabeth" and "Comstock" can literally never BE, and the post credits show the results of this eradication- Booker, still living with Anna. At least, this is my interpretation of the events.

As for Songbird, not only is Columbia, well, up in the air, but the Tower that Elizabeth was imprisoned in was the highest point in the city, and Songbird was created to be able to exist with regards to the extremely low air-pressure systems that would exist. He could withstand moderate air pressure, thus allowing him to interact with Columbia below safely, but was likely never designed to withstand surface pressure, let alone the pressure of water. Rapture pretty much decompressed him, hence the death. The eyes cracking that someone mentioned is because in low pressure environments the weakest point of any structure will be destroyed first, and glass panes (insofar as I am aware) shatter under pressure more easily than metal does. Interestingly, Songbird was likely created from observations of Rapture and the Big Daddies as an integration of living man and machine.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

snip

I thought so too, until the major shocking swerve hit. Then it suddenly made sense. Remember:

Spoiler

one of the things that defines Columbia is how it's borrowed things from other timelines, other universes. Hence, Beach Boys, Cyndi Lauper, quantum levitation, and drink-based superpowers, all before 1920.

Yes, I know. the Luteces experiments, the Fink brothers strange ability to see tears, those all explain why the anachronistic stuff in Columbia is there.

However, that doesn't explain why the community of ultra-devout white supremacists does not seem to bat an eye at drinks that mess with creation and raise anyone, including the lower classes, to superhuman status. In the objectivist setting of Rapture, using Plasmids to improve oneself beyond ones own limits it makes sense. In Columbia, where there are frequent reminders that there is a divinely ordained hierarchy in life with boundaries that one should not overstep, it does not make sense.

I just thought of another minor gripe.

Shock Jockey. It's basically Infinite's version of Electro Bolt and I immediately assumed you'd be able to use it in much the same ways, like using it to power things and open doors. And I was right. You use it to leave the Hall of Heroes, a few times more to open optional doors while on your way back to the gondola and finally one last time to summon the gondola. And then I don't remember ever using it like that again.

It feels like a gameplay mechanic gets introduced, the game then devotes a pretty large chapter to obtaining that ability, then it lets you use if a handful of times in a short period of time and then it seemingly abandons that mechanic for the rest of the game. Feels like a waste. In Bioshock, this use of Electro Bolt to solve small puzzles wasn't frequent either, but not as confined to one area of the game. Or maybe I'm just remembering things wrong.

 

[jcfrommars9]

snip

I thought so too, until the major shocking swerve hit. Then it suddenly made sense. Remember:

Spoiler

one of the things that defines Columbia is how it's borrowed things from other timelines, other universes. Hence, Beach Boys, Cyndi Lauper, quantum levitation, and drink-based superpowers, all before 1920.

Yes, I know. the Luteces experiments, the Fink brothers strange ability to see tears, those all explain why the anachronistic stuff in Columbia is there.

However, that doesn't explain why the community of ultra-devout white supremacists does not seem to bat an eye at drinks that mess with creation and raise anyone, including the lower classes, to superhuman status. In the objectivist setting of Rapture, using Plasmids to improve oneself beyond ones own limits it makes sense. In Columbia, where there are frequent reminders that there is a divinely ordained hierarchy in life with boundaries that one should not overstep, it does not make sense.

I just thought of another minor gripe.

I'm not sure why it doesn't make sense. Believe me, I have gripes of my own with Bioshock Infinite but that's not one of them. They believed in science as a means of God revealing his blueprint and therefore not messing with his creation or overstepping boundaries. We well know that the Bible never spoke of praying to George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin and yet they do. As usual with these kind of groups, you go down the line far enough, they always in the end up making their own rules and justifications for what they do. They just considered "lower class" people having Vigors, sharing the same bathroom or being romantically/sexually involved to be an abomination.

 

[xshadowscreamx]

the hardest part was defntly the graveyard fight with the ghost, small area, resurrect dudes, always running out of ammo when i needed the most besides lizzy throwing it to me, die and lose money (i did have 800 coins). ghost healed to a point, rinse and repeat until something goes right.


what went right

like finding my trusty carbine after i volleyed the shit out of her. also must use absorb energy vigor to absorb bullets and your volley spread damage. MUST on hard.