Ground Zeroes Rape Apologists Baffle Me

Recommended Videos

The_Echo

New member
Mar 18, 2009
3,251
0
0
God.
Fucking.
Dammit.

I took some time away from the Escapist and I come back to more of this shit.

Controversy for controversy's sake.
No good reason. Just because.
I wish so hard that this could just stop. I really do.

RA92 said:
Look. I'm coming in here way late but here's my two cents.
Rape happens.
It happens to normal people and you can sure as hell bet that it happens to prisoners.
It's ugly.
If the implied rape in Ground Zeroes made you uncomfortable, then it did its job.

Metal Gear Solid V is not going to be like previous Metal Gears. Y'know, the sort of spy-action story sprinkled with cooky characters and a dash of the supernatural. I mean, maybe that'll still be there. But at the core, it's the story of a once-great soldier falling to rock bottom, only to rise up again as a completely different man. A villain. It's not something that's going to make you feel good.
It's going to be a rough ride and this is just the first stretch.

People like you, kicking up a shitstorm over stuff like this... I don't understand. Are video games not allowed to touch rape? Is that some kind of... is there something wrong with that? Why?

And the real kicker: it was only ever alluded to. No graphic displays in a cutscene. No straight-up "they're raping me!" It's just muffled noises and suggestive language on an audio tape that you might not even pick up.

That's nothing. Nothing. Ground Zeroes barely even touches the concept of rape, and already people are up in arms over it.

People keep wanting games to move forward, to become art, to be taken seriously. Whatever the case may be. But nobody's letting it happen because of shit like this.

Yes I mad.
 

CloudAtlas

New member
Mar 16, 2013
873
0
0
delta4062 said:
CloudAtlas said:
Strazdas said:
nevarran said:
Strazdas said:
so a 20 year old woman could not pass as a 19 year old woman (the age where high school usually ends)?
A 20 year old? Sure, she can.
That kid from OP's post? The only thing she can pass is... a KID.
well, if you bothered to actually read other poster resposnes, you would have known that the woman in OPs post is actually 20.
What matters is how old she appears to be, not the age that is written in some codex or something.
...I honestly can't tell if you're serious. It doesn't matter what her actual age is? The fuck?
The "actual" age is not a real age, is made up by the devs just like everything else. By your logic, you could stuff your game full with pornographic drawings of little kids, write in some codex that every character involved is over 18, and everything's cool.

Strazdas said:
No, it does not. because not all women appear identically at same age. there ARE real life women that look like her at 20. There are short women. Just because you dont like the look it is no reason to insult all women that look like that.
No, I'm not insulting anyone. As much as I'm not insulting any real big-chested woman who likes to dress provocatively when I'm critizing a game stuffed with characters who look like that.
If a designer is drawing a female character that looks like 14-year-old, then that character should be considered as a 14-year -ld, regardless of whoever might look much younger than they actually are in the real world, and regardless of what some dev has written in some codex or something.


Also, I'm not sure what being short has to do with anything.
 

CloudAtlas

New member
Mar 16, 2013
873
0
0
delta4062 said:
You don't get what the Codex is in Metal Gear games don't you? It's always provided necessary intel on a lot of the games events and characters and it does factor into the game. The age of the character is an actual thing, not just their appearance. To think that what the developers specifically say is irrelevant is just a stupid way to look at it.
Honestly, it is pretty naive to think that developers don't do that on purpose. They want to include sexualized very young girls in order to pander to that share of the audience who is into that stuff, but they don't want to own up to that. Or get their games banned. So they just claim that some female character who totally looks and behaves like a teen is actually 200 years old. And everything's cool. Right? No.

It's no different to other sexualization really. There always some lame, contrived justification for why this or that character is half naked, but believe me, the justification usually comes after the sexualization.
written after the fact.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,933
1,804
118
Country
United Kingdom
delta4062 said:
You can't be serious? Fictional characters can't possibly have ages even though the game itself specifically gives you an age? That's some pretty retarded logic.
No. Because they're fictional. Which means they aren't real. They weren't actually born, therefore there is no period of time from which they were born, therefore they do not have an age in the sense that a real person would. If you cannot tell the difference between fictional and real people, then that is a problem and you might want to go and talk to someone about it.

How a fictional character is represented in a piece of media is not based on who they actually are or on characteristics they actually possess because they do not exist. They do not have an age. They do not have a hair colour. They do not have a body type. Any experiences which happen to them did not actually happen. If they look a particular way, it's because an artist chose to draw them that way, or the casting director chose an actor/actress who looked like that. If they act in a particular way or particular things happen, it's because a writer chose that, or an actor chose to ad lib their shit. Everything about a fictional character is a product of choice, because they are made-up purposefully, they are not real people.

Now let's say a movie opens with a fictional character called Bob having his birthday party. One of Bob's friends comes up to him and says "happy 18th birthday, Bob" and Bob is like "thanks!" From this, we can infer that Bob is meant to have just turned 18. Now imagine that Bob in this scene is played by an actor who is clearly well into their 60s. The question would be why did the people who produced this film make those choices? You couldn't just get someone to go and ask Bob what age he is because Bob doesn't exist. This interaction was written by the scriptwriter. The actor to play Bob was chosen by the casting director who picked as 60 year old man. Those are the choices which matter and the choices we can question.. not the "actual age" of a person who isn't real.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,933
1,804
118
Country
United Kingdom
delta4062 said:
I'm not saying she's real. I never once said she was. However to not factor in the age that the game clearly states is just being ignorant and grasping at some pretty thin straws for a stupid argument in the first place, not to mention your other example is completely off the mark as well. 18 year olds that look like 60 year old is impossible, if not incredibly rare. Whereas there are plenty of women out there in their 20's that look like they're still in school.
Again. Missing the point. It doesn't matter if it's "possible". None of this is "possible". It is fictional. The way the character looks is fictional. The codex saying she is 20 is fictional. Please realise what that word means.

Seriously, this kind of logic is the absolute bane of these discussions.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,933
1,804
118
Country
United Kingdom
delta4062 said:
And the rape itself is fictional. So why is it an issue?
The rape isn't an issue. It never happened. There is no victim. The representation of rape is the issue, because that's all we're dealing with here. Representation. What people actually see and hear and what someone else chose to show them, what it suggests, what affect it has.

You'd think this would be obvious from the beginning, it's really weird how it isn't.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,933
1,804
118
Country
United Kingdom
ethurin said:
So the problem is how it is represented? Which is a subjective call. In the end, it is just a game. Made by a guy with a history of bad writing but great game design.

Wax and wane about you want about how X is represented and what that means, in the end it is just an opinion.
Hypothetically, if Hideo Kojima actually did go out and rape someone the decision as to whether and how he should be punished would also be a 'subjective call'. Such a decision which would also have serious, demonstrable consequences for him possibly including spending much of his life in prison.

The fact that this game exists relies on a vast number of opinions. The fact that it was made the way it was relies on an even more vast number of opinions. Virtually everything that happens in the human world happens because of opinions. An opinion is only "just an opinion" when you're implying from context that it doesn't mean anything, something which in this case you don't get to decide. Let's face it, if thousands of people who "just had opinions" complain Konami are going to have to listen, because that's how corporate PR works. Opinion -> measurable effect.

So wax and wane all you want about how it's "just an opinion", in the end it is just an opinion.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,933
1,804
118
Country
United Kingdom
ethurin said:
when comparing numbers here those "thousands" mean jack-shit. The game is a success, implied rape and all.
You haven't worked in a creative industry, have you?

We live in an age where one negative comment can be read by millions of people and effectively undo millions of dollars in marketing in a second. That is why companies, heck charities spend hundreds of thousands (possibly millions in the case of Konami) employing digital communications and social media teams to manage their online presence, and right now, some executive somewhere is shitting out their own intestines in blind terror.

I mean, we've seen a few threads on this here on this site already. Now, what if the editorial team picks up on that and decides to run an article on it? Other gaming journalism outlets read this article and decide that "wow, this is clearly a thing" and they need to be in on the debate too, so they post even more stuff about it and suddenly what was a few people arguing on the internet is now into fucking Tomb Raider land and people are going to lose their jobs. I am not kidding. People will lose their jobs because some other people said negative things on the internet.

Creative industries are not a bunch of idealistic dreamers committed to the pursuit of "twoo art" at all costs. They are 90% composed of men in suits who want to sell you a product because that is how they justify their salaries. There is no "Well, maybe we lost a few people because of that rape thing, but I think it was really key to the vision we were trying to realise, you know?" There is only "Okay, we shifted a million copies. Why didn't we shift 2 million, and what can we do to make that happen?"

But by all means, you argumentum ad populum. See how long it works out for you.
 

rasta111

New member
Nov 11, 2009
214
0
0
At least the first post clarified that it's not pretending anyone is a 'rape apologist' as if we're debating something that REALLY HAPPENED... That wouldn't be very nice would it... Oh wait we're still acting as if a rape in a video game, no matter how graphic, is even comparable to people being 'rape apologists' in REAL LIFE...

... I'm sorry I'm still getting over the idea that 'rape apologists' actually exist.
 

ZippyDSMlee

New member
Sep 1, 2007
3,958
0
0
Fiction is fiction no matter how questionable, at the end of the day what do you want everything to be happy, cheery and bright? Or just censor the stuff just because someone is offend. If you want things treated fairly with reason you are living in the wrong universe.

By all means complain and show your ignorance of humanity.

Just an FYI I hate rape its about the only thing that I get a bit sick over, torture is a close 2nd.
 

Wizardly-K9

New member
Apr 19, 2014
39
0
0
Res Plus said:
delta4062 said:
The_Echo said:
God.
Fucking.
Dammit.

I took some time away from the Escapist and I come back to more of this shit.

Controversy for controversy's sake.
No good reason. Just because.
I wish so hard that this could just stop. I really do.

RA92 said:
Look. I'm coming in here way late but here's my two cents.
Rape happens.
It happens to normal people and you can sure as hell bet that it happens to prisoners.
It's ugly.
If the implied rape in Ground Zeroes made you uncomfortable, then it did its job.

Metal Gear Solid V is not going to be like previous Metal Gears. Y'know, the sort of spy-action story sprinkled with cooky characters and a dash of the supernatural. I mean, maybe that'll still be there. But at the core, it's the story of a once-great soldier falling to rock bottom, only to rise up again as a completely different man. A villain. It's not something that's going to make you feel good.
It's going to be a rough ride and this is just the first stretch.

People like you, kicking up a shitstorm over stuff like this... I don't understand. Are video games not allowed to touch rape? Is that some kind of... is there something wrong with that? Why?

And the real kicker: it was only ever alluded to. No graphic displays in a cutscene. No straight-up "they're raping me!" It's just muffled noises and suggestive language on an audio tape that you might not even pick up.

That's nothing. Nothing. Ground Zeroes barely even touches the concept of rape, and already people are up in arms over it.

People keep wanting games to move forward, to become art, to be taken seriously. Whatever the case may be. But nobody's letting it happen because of shit like this.

Yes I mad.
I love you far too much right now.

See this guy everyone? Read what he's posted, re-read it then go over it one more time. Everyone needs to fuck all this nontroversy bullshit off.
How well put, good work the Echo, very, very sensible. This ridiculous SJW lead attempt to stir up "outrage" when an adult media represents adult themes is bizarre and annoying, frankly. Sick of a vocal minority believing they have some right to dictate what can and can't be show in a damn game. Buy it, don't buy it - your choices.
Exactly. It's like when people trash comedians that use rape jokes. What other jokes can't be used if rape jokes are put in exile? If people start censoring things because of what THEY feel is immoral, then eventually the black bar is going to stretch over anything else even slightly inappropriate, and everyone is going to end up walking on eggshells.

Either everything is allowed or nothing is.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,756
0
0
It's a Kojima game and Kojima fans are making excuses. Where's the surprise? Fans of a bad writer defending bad writing.

shrekfan246 said:
Murder is a pretty damn sensitive topic too, and yet people never seem to have a problem with the mass murdering that almost every game has you do throughout its running time.
Cultural norms. If murder was as rarified as rape in the public mind, or if murder was routinely blamed on the victim or targeted only a specific group or was downplayed to "nonconsensual death" or : surprise end of life," or any number of other things, murder would be treated very differently.

Hell, people tend to be more forgiving of murderers than child rapists. You don't even need to look to games for that.

Expecting similar outcomes from different starting positions seems like it's the same as repeating the same steps and expecting different results.
 

rasta111

New member
Nov 11, 2009
214
0
0
Surely 'rape apologists' just means rapists? I mean if you're willing to make excuses for a rapist that's just like condoning the act isn't it? Also surely no one would apologise for a rapist (that's like saying the actual rapist could apologise let alone someone on their behalf, would you accept that?), what's happening is they are either ignorant or in the worst case have been psychologically damaged by one or more rapists in the past.

If you're trying to argue that a video game or anything else that would simulate the scenarios involved strengthens their fundamentally damaged resolve toward being a rapist... Well I think you're missing the forest for the trees. You're saying that anyone who defends even a simulated rape must therefore habour similar feelings themselves effectively. They are indifferent to the act because they don't believe it's rape and in the case of this video game it is merely a simulation meant to shock, disturb and emotionally inform the player about the subject the game is presenting. Here the subject is war. The format is a satirically cheesy video game which has been known to have all the subtlety of a sledgehammer in the past.

In any case if a fantasy, no matter how disturbing the subject matter or formatting (and in this case it's a video game about war which is about as disturbing as can be), can constitute rape not a single person here is innocent. It's muddy water indeed. Most rapists use guilt as a way to justify their feelings and actions. They make their victims actually feel guilty for resisting which is the part that does the real psychological damage. In most cases this can allow them to continue for extended periods, perhaps indefinitely. If the victim ceases to believe it is rape they may even in turn defend their rapist if discovered or interrupted by outside forces.

This is never a fantasy. This is why I say it's laughable to compare the real with the fantasy. The only exception is exploitation which I think it's safe to say is not the case here, these are actors and it's an audio recording, the line is blurry but it's there... At least it is here, mainly because I don't want to be sued for libel by Konami and I'm fairly certain those actors were under a fair contract which prevents any such accusation, not to mention protects Konami from things like this thread. Legally at least for the time being.
 

gargantual

New member
Jul 15, 2013
416
0
0
delta4062 said:
The_Echo said:
God.
Fucking.
Dammit.

I took some time away from the Escapist and I come back to more of this shit.

Controversy for controversy's sake.
No good reason. Just because.
I wish so hard that this could just stop. I really do.

RA92 said:
Look. I'm coming in here way late but here's my two cents.
Rape happens.
It happens to normal people and you can sure as hell bet that it happens to prisoners.
It's ugly.
If the implied rape in Ground Zeroes made you uncomfortable, then it did its job.

Metal Gear Solid V is not going to be like previous Metal Gears. Y'know, the sort of spy-action story sprinkled with cooky characters and a dash of the supernatural. I mean, maybe that'll still be there. But at the core, it's the story of a once-great soldier falling to rock bottom, only to rise up again as a completely different man. A villain. It's not something that's going to make you feel good.
It's going to be a rough ride and this is just the first stretch.

People like you, kicking up a shitstorm over stuff like this... I don't understand. Are video games not allowed to touch rape? Is that some kind of... is there something wrong with that? Why?

And the real kicker: it was only ever alluded to. No graphic displays in a cutscene. No straight-up "they're raping me!" It's just muffled noises and suggestive language on an audio tape that you might not even pick up.

That's nothing. Nothing. Ground Zeroes barely even touches the concept of rape, and already people are up in arms over it.

People keep wanting games to move forward, to become art, to be taken seriously. Whatever the case may be. But nobody's letting it happen because of shit like this.

Yes I mad.
I love you far too much right now.

See this guy everyone? Read what he's posted, re-read it then go over it one more time. Everyone needs to fuck all this nontroversy bullshit off.
Seriously a BIG BIG Thanks Echo.

Now the rest of Ya'll keep this moral crusading "sex"troversy stuff up, this forum'll end up looking like CNN debates or grocery store gossipmags. Even Gamespot sorry to say, doesn't "OVERtrend" these discussions for too long, cuz they recognize the importance of theme too but they wanna talk about 'gameplay'.
 

Lupine

New member
Apr 26, 2014
112
0
0
Caramel Frappe said:
RA92 said:
Ah I feel yah. Made a thread before with the title "Has Kojima Gone to Far?" with the same topic in mind. Most agreed with me while others disagreed which is fine. To me, the entire gig about the tapes and what Paz went through is just to much in my opinion. War is bad, rape is part of reality... all of that, but having it forced into a story just for shock value? Come on.

It's not even the tragic rape. Child rape is involved plus gang banging, plus Skullface himself takes her. How much do you have to try in order to show they're evil. Yes, it's clear they're bad... trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy is just bad writing. Don't get me wrong, the game will probably sell like hotcakes and be grand overall but the audio tapes and plot around Paz in this...

It's like how Yahtzee said it best. "Metal Gearrrrr.... what is that behind your back?"
MGS: "Nothing..."
Yahtzee: "Are you doing weird things again to your female characters?"
MGS: "... Noooo ..."

From the first game to the recent one, all kinds of dumb/weird/EXTREME things happen to the female characters. Just look at what happened to those enslaved girls in MGS 4. Also look at what happened to Paz in Peace Walker, and that other time with the scientist lady. Kojima seems to have a fetish but that's just me assuming it lol.

Overall, I feel exactly as how you feel. There was no need for those audio tapes. I can swallow the fact rape happens in war but the way it was written with Paz's torture there? Even the villain is named Skullface... for the sake, of standing out to be evil.

It'd be like me making a villain who had a scar down his eyes, wearing Nazi clothing while drowning puppies. That isn't a well written villain- it's a villain that's trying to hard or at least to unreal to see as a likable or interesting villain.
I'm sorry but I had to join the forum just to reply to this sort of thing. I'm new, however I can say that while I enjoy Metal Gear I don't feel the need to apologize for it at all. Firstly I think the OP has every right to feel as he does, however that doesn't change the fact that I think he completely and utterly missed the mark here. Having played Ground Zeroes I can say that for the most part this is Paz's game. That's not to say that what happens to her isn't horrible, but rather to say that such was totally the point.

Alot of people commenting here seem to be ignoring her role in the series up until this point. Paz has sort of become the symbol of Metal Gear. When first we meet her, she is a school girl with her teacher whom both of which have been attacked by rebels. Big Boss sort of sees through part of this deception, but the problem is that he doesn't see through the most important part...Paz is a young girl to Boss and his people, they more or less adopt her. Soldiers and career murders fall for her in a completely daughter and family building sense. And so she becomes a spot of innocence and right in the world of men steeped in the blood of their enemies and their friends.

Paz (who's name couldn't have been a harder swing of the ol' symbolism bat) becomes a sort of reminder that while they did choose to be soldiers and are still choosing to be mercenaries there are other things in life. She and other characters like Chico are meant to humanize Big Boss's movement and point out that while the UN probably should be worried about a bunch of country less soldiers banding together, they shouldn't be that worried because these guys are just people like them trying to live their lives (at least the game wants this to be the player's point of view). The problem however comes when it is later revealed that Paz was a spy the whole time.

In a sense it is like Mother Teresa putting a knife in you. This person that you've come to identify with the good in the world, that you felt could do no wrong or at the least gave you pause to think that the world isn't really as bad as you thought it was...suddenly that is what you have to turn your hatred on. So a massive betrayal. That was Peace Walker, not in detail, but in quick character emotional summery.

Paz dies or so everyone thinks. Chico whom up until and in fact after her betrayal, was in love with Paz doesn't believe she's dead. So he searches for her. It actually turns out that he is right, but then he tries to save her and gets captured himself. This is the start of Ground Zeroes. At the start of the game Snake feels that he is in the right for hating Paz for having "killed" her. He is pissed and he feels that his righteous indignation is just that righteous. He's been hard used by the world over and over again and so Paz is a convenient target for his rage because she is just a spy and a traitor. Ground Zeroes isn't necessarily about revenge, it is about getting Paz back from the enemy so that she won't spill secrets, but at the same time revenge is sort of a influencing factor in how things are ordered in Snake's POV. Paz is written off. She's just another horror of war. You aren't supposed to care about her. She's your enemy or if not your enemy, she's your enemy's tool. She's a gun. You don't feel for a gun, you don't care when a gun gets melted down.

That's how you're supposed to feel about Paz as Snake, but what Snake finds is sort of what turns all of that notion on its head. Horrible things happen to Paz so that you are forced to reevaluate how you feel about her. Are you really angry at her? Are you angry at yourself for not seeing what she was doing? Are you mad at the faceless man pulling strings behind the scenes to make you dance like Screaming Mantis's puppets? This is why Ground Zeroes is Paz's game. The game is about her and about you, your sense of right and wrong, your hunger for revenge. I feel like the entire point of everything was to make sweet revenge turn to ashes in your mouth and this only in that same vein.

No one can figure Paz out, if you listen to her tapes, all of which I believe are unlocked from the beginning, you get a picture of Paz and a picture of what it was like for her to be a double agent. You understand why she has doubts, why she eventually does what she does in Peace Walker, and you also come to understand why she goes full on triple agent. Still Snake doesn't want to hope. He's been burned before. Not just once, he already was dealing with being disenfranchised after The Boss's death, and now this. He doesn't want to give her another chance because what if she hurts him again. It is human to want to avoid pain.

MILD SPOILER WARNING!!!



Her death while perhaps strange in execution...it is devastating after you understand who she is. Especially after the bomb removal scene after which you think that she's going to be okay. It is graphic and dark, but it becomes hopeful and there is this part of you in the back of your mind that is like "Well that was horrible. But we made it. All of us are alive and while things won't be the same, still we made it." And then all hell breaks loose.

I'm not saying that Metal Gear is the most consistent series or that the writing is flawless by a long shot, but what I am saying is that things make massive sense in terms of context and lore. This is a Metal Gear with all the silliness and action inspired bits that we're used to, but at the same time it is touching on much darker themes and like Metal Gear always does it is attempting to deconstruct the concepts of war and the war hero in a fashion that leaves everyone feeling dirtier for the experience. People can argue whatever they like about a work of fiction, but I feel that it was Kojima's intent to invoke emotion and thus he succeeded.
 

Pogilrup

New member
Apr 1, 2013
267
0
0
What I see the issue is that the way Kojima handled the topic made Paz seem... expendable.

Gone through horrible suffering and then died.

To those saying this is a "nontroversy", I say that this work has fallen into the trap of "Women In Refrigerators" and its variants. There are ways of touch on the topic of rape without making the victim characters seem expendable or unimportant.
 

Fsyco

New member
Feb 18, 2014
313
0
0
Pogilrup said:
What I see the issue is that the way Kojima handled the topic made Paz seem... expendable.

Gone through horrible suffering and then died.

To those saying this is a "nontroversy", I say that this work has fallen into the trap of "Women In Refrigerators" and its variants. There are ways of touch on the topic of rape without making the victim characters seem expendable or unimportant.
Except this is supposed to be the catalyst for Big Boss's Start of Darkness. I get that people are offended by the 'Stuffed into the fridge' trope, but, well, it's still pretty effective, both in fiction and in real life. If you want to really hurt somebody, and can't attack directly, you hurt their loved ones. Maybe she just seems unimportant because the game ends almost immediately after she dies.
The other problem is that men are vastly more 'expendable' than women. If, say, all this happened to Chico, it would probably not be nearly as impacting as it was. Hell, in most of these threads about this topic everybody seems to be talking about Paz (including some of them assuming SHE'S the underage person involved),and yet nobody shed a tear for poor Chico, who still went through a ton of shit, and also probably died at the end of Ground Zeroes too.

Also, you say that there are better ways of handling it. If you were in Kojima's shoes or on his writing staff, how would you have handled it, incidentally?
 

gargantual

New member
Jul 15, 2013
416
0
0
Pogilrup said:
What I see the issue is that the way Kojima handled the topic made Paz seem... expendable.

Gone through horrible suffering and then died.

To those saying this is a "nontroversy", I say that this work has fallen into the trap of "Women In Refrigerators" and its variants. There are ways of touch on the topic of rape without making the victim characters seem expendable or unimportant.
Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. Even Stephen King agrees.

From "On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft" ?Kill your darlings, kill your darlings, even when it breaks your egocentric little scribbler?s heart, kill your darlings.?
 

Pogilrup

New member
Apr 1, 2013
267
0
0
Fsyco said:
Pogilrup said:
What I see the issue is that the way Kojima handled the topic made Paz seem... expendable.

Gone through horrible suffering and then died.

To those saying this is a "nontroversy", I say that this work has fallen into the trap of "Women In Refrigerators" and its variants. There are ways of touch on the topic of rape without making the victim characters seem expendable or unimportant.
Except this is supposed to be the catalyst for Big Boss's Start of Darkness. I get that people are offended by the 'Stuffed into the fridge' trope, but, well, it's still pretty effective, both in fiction and in real life. If you want to really hurt somebody, and can't attack directly, you hurt their loved ones. Maybe she just seems unimportant because the game ends almost immediately after she dies.
The other problem is that men are vastly more 'expendable' than women. If, say, all this happened to Chico, it would probably not be nearly as impacting as it was. Hell, in most of these threads about this topic everybody seems to be talking about Paz (including some of them assuming SHE'S the underage person involved),and yet nobody shed a tear for poor Chico, who still went through a ton of shit, and also probably died at the end of Ground Zeroes too.

Also, you say that there are better ways of handling it. If you were in Kojima's shoes or on his writing staff, how would you have handled it, incidentally?
No "orifice" bombs that's for sure.

Subtle hints of the torture. The tape footage is shown to the characters, but not to the audience, and cue vomiting by the characters.

EDIT:

gargantual said:
Pogilrup said:
What I see the issue is that the way Kojima handled the topic made Paz seem... expendable.

Gone through horrible suffering and then died.

To those saying this is a "nontroversy", I say that this work has fallen into the trap of "Women In Refrigerators" and its variants. There are ways of touch on the topic of rape without making the victim characters seem expendable or unimportant.
Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs. Even Stephen King agrees.

From "On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft" ?Kill your darlings, kill your darlings, even when it breaks your egocentric little scribbler?s heart, kill your darlings.?
Is making the omelet referring to the effort of finding a good way to handle the topic or the process of making this particular work?