GSC: STALKER Too Hardcore for American Gamers

[Joeshie]

It didn't do as well in the US because PC gaming just isn't as big as it used to be in the US. If they had released STALKER on the 360, they would have had much more success.

As much as I love STALKER, this guy is just making up ridiculous excuses to try and justify the poor sales. STALKER has much more in common with Western ideals and gameplay than some of the stuff that comes out of Japan and still sells well in America. Not to mention, most outlets gave STALKER a very good score over here. He just needs to learn that PC gaming just ain't what it used to be in America. PC gaming is still pretty popular in many European countries, so it's not very surprising that they saw greater success in Europe rather than in America.

I'm really finding it hard to see where the gameplay differences between the Eastern Europeans and Americans is at. STALKERs basic gameplay, shooting stuff, is extremely popular in America. FPS/RPGs have also done extremely well before in America (Deus Ex and System Shock 2). The whole "dark and frightening" FPS gameplay has been done plenty of times in America as well. Games with open-ended gameplay and broad open areas are also extremely popular in America (see Oblivion). The only real bit he has right is the difficultly differences.

In the end, he is trying to look for the roots to a problem in all the wrong places. If he wants an FPS to be met with considerable success in America, he needs to look into putting his games on the 360 or PS3. I'm a huge PC enthusiast and think that STALKER is one of the best FPS I have played in years, but it's abundantly clear what the real root of the problem is. Gaming in America is more "advanced" (I don't mean like superior or anything) than the Eastern European market is. The gaming market in America ten or twenty years ago used to be EXACTLY what the market is like in Eastern Europe right now: full of hardcore titles that used to kick your ass and thus only the most hardcore of gamers would play. However, our market has matured and expanded beyond ass-kicking titles to include games that anyone can pick up. If the gaming market in Eastern Europe grows, I fully expect that easier games will start to replace very difficult games.

 

[ingsoc]

This article fails to point out the fact that the consoletards would rather play a lame online game than use their brains playing a great game like STALKER, or ones with innovative gameplay like Crysis. I am not saying that American developers cannot creat great games, take a long look at Valve, they are the worlds top developer, but the problem here are the consoles and they way they are harming the gaming industry.

 

[stompy]

Well, alright, you think that American gamers want , so the next game you make should have all those things if you want to sell in the American market. If you want more sales in a market, you'd best cater for them, not just slam your product down their throats.

 

[Skrapt]

Well, alright, you think that American gamers want , so the next game you make should have all those things if you want to sell in the American market. If you want more sales in a market, you'd best cater for them, not just slam your product down their throats.

the difficulty is catering for 2 markets, that want different games, with 1 game. Though personally I agree, European games tend to have a much darker atmosphere, and more immersive storyline (I said tend, not every game does this of course). Whereas games from America tend to be straight out first person shooters, point and kill without as much storyline (again there are quite a few exceptions). I'm actually going to take Assassin's Creed to make my point here (Yes I know it was developed in Canada), this is a game that actually manages to appeal to both markets, it has a great storyline and a lot of immersion and gameplay that can be picked up in an instant, and whereas I as a European player feels a little annoyed that the developer didn't think I could handle using more then 7 buttons on a keyboard, in the American market the game would probably do exceptionally well because it's so easy to pick up, of course that's part of the reason it's done well her in Europe as well, but look at the games targeting either market and generally you'll find more European orientated games are more difficult to pick up and play quickly.

 

[Fire Daemon]

I don't find this very suprisng.

Japanese games are incredibly different to western games in both story telling and animation. I'm pretty sure most of you can tell the differences between Japanese games and Western games so I wont list the differences in great detail but I will say that they are incredibley different.

I have not been able to play STALKER yet dude to a poor Quality Graphics card but I know that it is the sort of game I would enjoy. I am a huge fan of Fallout and Half life and in seems to be an awesome combination of the two but I am also a fan of Halo and CoD4.

I think saying that gamers only like either flashy games or dark games is completely wrong.

 

[Joeshie]

I'm sorry Joeshie, but you managed to miss the point. If you imply that the consoles sales are poor in Eastern Europe, you are wrong. We may be poor in new Lexus models, but when it comes to gaming we were ready to beat each other mercilessly in front of the store that was the first to receive GTA IV. A friend of mine was unable to buy PS3 version of the game the very same day it was available, so he had decided to avoid paying bills for a couple of months, and got himself an XBOX and the game. Besides, the first couple of days of it's release you couldn't buy GTA IV for less then 110 euros, or 170 U$D. The only thing that is stalling the console sales in EE right now would be the price. Market saturation depends on the price.

I wasn't suggesting that console sales are poor in Eastern Europe, but that they aren't nearly as big a force as they are in America. Likewise, Europe still has a very strong PC presence in comparison to the US, which is mostly likely why it preformed better in Europe than it did in America.

My point was to say that STALKER could have sold well in America if it had been released on either the PS3 or the 360, which sees considerably better sales in software than PC does.

Furthermore, you can't really compare Oblivion to Stalker now, can you? Stalker is a FPS, with very little RPG in it, unless you count the armor statistics and anti-radiation vodka as RPG.

My comparison to Oblivion was more along the lines of having large open areas to explore. Americans love having freedom and having plenty of room to explore, which is one of the elements that makes STALKER stand out from most modern FPS. This guy continued to paint the VERY false picture that there are significant gameplay differences between STALKER and what America wants. The fact of the matter is that there are many games with gameplay styles just like what STALKER offers that do just fine in America.

Besides, for every gem like Deus Ex and System Shock 2, there are hundreds of piece of shit titles like Turning point: fall of liberty or America's army. I think that's more like what Yavorsky wanted to say.

Then that point is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand. We are discussing why STALKER sold so poorly in the States, not how much crap gets released over here.

FYI, Turning Point: Fall of Liberty sold like shit over here and America's Army is an old online game. Even IF these games sold well, it has no bearing as to why STALKER didn't sell well over here.

I'd really like to see someone dig up the info about Stalker sales in Eastern Europe compared to... say... Gears of War (don't get me wrong, I didn't play the GoW, must be because never got interested in the first place after seeing the screenshots; I might like it). Some nice statistics might prove Yavorsky completely right. In the end, it is all about the culture and mindset, no matter how strange you think it is. Americans like more casual games and easy ones, straightforward and not too mind boggling. No wonder that all the best American studios end up sucking a fat one, the very same moment they decide to make a good game or try out something new, despite their publisher's wishes. That's how Black Isle Studios ended up, and Troika Games, eventually. Mark my words, folks: as soon as EA gets a huge hard on, Bioware will start developing Nascar simracing sequels.

I know this may be hard for you to understand, but an easier game doesn't automatically mean it's a bad game and a hard game doesn't automatically mean that it's a good game. It's also not fair of you to just completely blanket cover all of America and say that all of us want casual games. If people only wanted casual games in America, then Bioshock wouldn't have sold so well. Or Mass Effect. Or the Orange Box. Or Call of Duty 4.

Yes, there are differences between Eastern Europe and America game design, but the similiarites FAR outweight the differences. I think both you and Yavorsky both need to understand that it was releasing STALKER on a platform with a smaller audience that caused the poor STALKER sales in America, rather than the small cultural differences.

 

[TheDon]

I can't really disagree with the article, but I don't think that you can really say that one whole culture is more hardcore than another, but I see that European gamers and North American gamers(even in Mexico) have very different definition of hardcore. It seems the hardcore in America is RPGs lately(FPS too), But it makes you wonder what with all the different servers and what not out there, how much do the two gamer cultures mesh? I would say a fair amount, but I will see what others here say.

 

[p1ne]

Joeshi, I think you're on the right track in refuting the claim that Americans are less tolerant of more hardcore games. However, that article overall concentrated more on the cultural differences between eastern Europe and America, and how they tend to like darker games with a more serious theme, which is definitely true. American games have been attempting to portray themselves this way lately, but very few actually do. Take Gears of War, with its aggressively dark and grittily desaturated visuals - yet that is just the stylistic presentation. The game itself doesn't address any serious themes or ideas, and the over-the-top action and gore-filled gameplay place it squarely in the realm of traditional American sci-fi shooters.

I know talking about cultural differences between America and Europe can seem a little bit silly since most of us are descended from Europeans and we share a fair amount of the same media, but that kind of thing should not be underestimated, and I am definitely with Malygris in being thankful for that. For example.... American developers like action-adventure, but something like Beyond Good and Evil with its quirky visual style doesn't really fit with our culture. This is not true of all games or all Americans, but overall it's true enough to cause the observable differences between our games and the ones from across the pond.

 

[jaxxduece]

I loved STALKER, but it is definitely true about some games and genres do better in some regions more than others. Not exactly groundbreaking what he is saying.

 

[Andy Chalk]

Yes, there are differences between Eastern Europe and America game design, but the similiarites FAR outweight the differences. I think both you and Yavorsky both need to understand that it was releasing STALKER on a platform with a smaller audience that caused the poor STALKER sales in America, rather than the small cultural differences.

You don't think Yavorsky is smart enough to implicitly account for the PC-exclusive nature of STALKER in his comments?

Beyond the fact that they both involve guns and monsters, STALKER is significantly dissimilar to major American FPS releases over the past few years. It's also a weird-looking shooter made by a company nobody's ever heard of, and as a couple million Madden NFL 08 owners will tell you, the mainstream American game audience isn't big on experimenting with new and exotic things. It's impossible to attribute STALKER's failure to become a major hit to one particular reason, but those cited by Yavorsky are very valid.

 

[Chaos Marine]

"Big companies always want you to make your game as easy as possible, so that any really non-intellectual person can play it," he said. "They want all sorts of tutorials to guide the player through, and this is something we've always been very resistant to."

"In our market we're used to having cheap games," Yavorsky continued. "That means all our audience play a lot of games and hence they're really hardcore about them - they want really challenging games, and they don't need to be guided through with basic explanations like, 'This is your gun; this is how you move.'"

"But then, everything, even up to the color spectrum and how bright your game is, can be an issue. It seems that to appeal to North America you need really flashy, bright games, and you can see that every eastern European game is very dark," he added. "In the end, I guess this just comes down to our culture and history - we're different people, and that's that."

So all he is really saying is that we US gamers(remember children, Canada is a little Europe and therefore vastly superior to the US in every way) are a bunch of retarded kiddies that need bright colors to counteract our ADD. That sure is a great way to win over the market your company is struggling in....

And the strange appeal of the Halo series which, baring the first as the technology didn't really exist at the time, are little more than programs to make your television puke bloom at you?

 

[Joeshie]

Beyond the fact that they both involve guns and monsters, STALKER is significantly dissimilar to major American FPS releases over the past few years. It's also a weird-looking shooter made by a company nobody's ever heard of, and as a couple million Madden NFL 08 owners will tell you, the mainstream American game audience isn't big on experimenting with new and exotic things. It's impossible to attribute STALKER's failure to become a major hit to one particular reason, but those cited by Yavorsky are very valid.

Is it really that different? You look at Bioshock which had a very unique setting with a very similar atmosphere, but still managed to be a big seller. I would hardly call it a "new and exotic" shooter either. It looks and plays like most other FPS games made nowadays: without any color and strong attempts at realism.

Sure, mainstream gamers didn't purchase STALKER. Was it because it was too "foreign" and different for their tastes? Nope. It was because most mainstream gamers A) didn't have a good enough PC to play the game (even my decent gaming rig at the time of it's release had a hard time chugging through it) and B) because none of them had ever even heard of the game.

Everyone keeps saying it's different than most modern FPS games, but I keep pointing to many successful FPS games that share much in common with STALKER. The fact of the matter is that STALKER was not successful in the US because people either didn't know about it or have access to it. It didn't matter how similar or different it was from American FPS games because it was bound to sell poorly right from the beginning. If they had wanted STALKER to preform well then they should have put some sort of marketing campaign behind it (I'm pretty in the know with gaming news and releases and I only found out about it from some screenshot on 4chan) and placed it on a console.

 

[JakubK666]

Could you guys just leave Halo alone for now? The goddamn game is 7 years old so why not start bashing the original Doom as well?

Maybe jump onto some new games like CoD4 or Gears?

As for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.,the game is buggy,the AI is retarded,the loading times are huge,randomly spawning bandits keep killin me and taking over areas I helped capturing,you can instantly complete a quest because your target was killed by somebody else and you can lose the game/quest because a vital character walked into an anomaly.

And although it's still one of the best games I've ever played, I reckon that average Madden-playing Console-tards(coincidentally, 95% of them are American) wouldn't have the balls to put up with this kind of shit.

 

[calelogan]

I understand Yavorsky is commenting on cultural differences between two different gaming niches, but I hardly find generalization to be an adequate approach to a problem.

Most European games are grittier when compared to American games, but the most important factor is taking into account what kind gamer will be playing your game. I enjoy shooter and I also enjoy RPGs, nothing fascinates me more than a good narrative. I have played STALKER and I enjoyed it every much, but I sadly lack the time to explore all of the game and finish it (similar situation to Oblivion). Therefore it is important to take into account if there are American gamers that enjoy the genre as much European ones.

Another issue is blaming accessibility as a mere "difference". It is an important factor and although some players may value it more than others it might imply into game-design flaws.

Last but not least, he doesn't mention how bad sales were in the US (I'm Brazilian for the record), so it is pretty hard to evaluate whether this "thematic" difference corresponds as well as he says.

He may be right, but I can't shake the feeling that his comments sound as if they had made the right design decision and the American gamers are the wrong. I'm not taking sides, just hinting that he might be being to harsh on what is a fragile topic.

 

[lijenstina]

I think that most of GSC discontent with America has to do with THQ and their vision of gaming.
Remember Dean Sharpe- the THQ's hatchet man- who in an interview with IGN [http://pc.ign.com/articles/737/737610p1.html] answered a question about Stalker's AI:

IGCNPC: A lot has been made about the AI in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. What do you think the secret is to making good AI?

Dean Sharpe: You know, it's a tough question, because there's a difference between really intelligent AI and fun AI. A lot of times, really good AI just aren't fun. I think S.T.A.L.K.E.R had a little bit of that where the enemies were just too realistic and too intelligent, and it was just too hard and wasn't fun. So, basically, I think there's a delicate balance between realism and fun.

I think that was one of the reason for ditching THQ in the first place.
And apparently Stalker sold over 1 650 000 of copies [http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/comments_news.phtml?id=022308_3] world wide so it's not a failure. So ,this time, the developers will have more freedom. Hope that they will use it to make a more polished game.

 

[Jimmyjames]

I reckon that average Madden-playing Console-tards(coincidentally, 95% of them are American) wouldn't have the balls to put up with this kind of shit.

That is among the most ludicrous statements I've ever read. Especially considering the the "console-tards" and PC gamers are COMPLETELY different markets.

I'm not even going to comment on your implications that American gamers are morons.

 

[Zak Frost]

I have never seen any real differences in games between here and anywhere else, except sometimes japan, and this guy basically saying "the reason my game didn't go over well is not because of bad local marketing on my part, but because everyone in America is a blithering twat." The reason I didn't buy it is because I have never heard of it, which if this game was such a success in Europe you would think they would at least try to localize the marketing in America(like japan does with absolutely everything)it's not because everyone in America is stupid, it's because of bad marketing, that can be the death of anything. It doesn't matter how good something is; I can't buy it if I have never heard of it.

 

[Frosk]

I have never seen any real differences in games between here and anywhere else, except sometimes japan, and this guy basically saying "the reason my game didn't go over well is not because of bad local marketing on my part, but because everyone in America is a blithering twat." The reason I didn't buy it is because I have never heard of it, which if this game was such a success in Europe you would think they would at least try to localize the marketing in America(like japan does with absolutely everything)it's not because everyone in America is stupid, it's because of bad marketing, that can be the death of anything. It doesn't matter how good something is; I can't buy it if I have never heard of it.

A pretty good assessment. I hadn't heard about the game until hearing about it on message boards based in England. I don't have a desktop so playing the game is out for me.

 

[lawfulfalafel]

I am sorry but this has nothing to do with America. The game was so buggy for me that I had to wait for a patch to come out to fix the bug which unlocked the locked door that had caught the main quest-giver. He was also the FIRST quest giver. That kind of a bug is inexcusable, especially since it appeared to early. Any basic Q&A should have caught that.

Also, if you look on Wikipedia you can see the long development cycle of the game and the numerous engines they ported it over to since it was taking so long to develop. But they still cant catch basic bugs? Or even test-play it themselves?