GTA V - Amnesty condemns torture scene

[Vykrel]

I think it's pretty bad to not only put the player in the position of a torturing protagonist, but also to imply that information obtained under torture is reliable.

Trevor (the torturer) actually goes on a rant not long afterwards that torture is not reliable at all. also, if you listen to the in-game radio stations, you can catch the various news stories related to your actions in the game. one of the stories involves the fact that the information given during the torture bit led to the death of an innocent person.

it was far from implying that torture was reliable. they made the exact opposite quite clear.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

So a game where you can mow down hundreds of innocent people with an assault rifle is under fire for having a scene where you torture a guy?

But that aside, Trevor is an emotionally unstable psychotic. Nothing he does is really painted as glorified anyways.

 

[Kingjackl]

I just completed the torture scene; it was brutal and definitely made me uncomfortable, but I can forgive it on artistic grounds. It's clearly not intended to glorify torture, as both the character doing the torture and the ones giving the orders were depicted as horrible people, while great pains were taken (no pun intended, that would be horrible) to show the victim as sympathetic and that torture does not work as a method of extracting information. If it isn't obvious by the end of the scene, Trevor basically spells the entire message out for you during the conversation afterwards.

 

[Ty Woodard]

lol it wasn't brutal. my regular missions are more brutal when I run over people on the way to them, back over them, get out and beat with a bat any witnesses then hide out from the wanted stars and nade a chopper down first if it got to three, hope I don't get wasted then get back to a mission where I blow something up, shoot like a maniac and always kill a lot of people. Pulling a guy's tooth out and not even watching him seize while you put the jumpers onto him is pretty boring. the only thing I enjoyed was the waterboarding, and I actually went too far with that one. It was funny seeing him try to not choke. It was too much fun. The wrench hit him in the nads, he mentioned the nads before going in and it didn't look like it from the angle but from the whines & the mentioning of the nads I assumed it was the nads he hit. since I only got to hit him once with the wrench, it can be assumed a blow to the nads would have been enough.

 

[BlackJimmy]

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to feel uncomfortable during that scene.
Especially when Trevor outright says that torture for the torturer and not a good way for obtaining information. It's just another way of the GTA games calling out the US Government on there bullshit.
They weren't even subtle about it. Trevor(of all people) could be talking to the real world government instead of Mr K.

 

[purplemonkey555]

It's fiction. Bad things are allowed to happen in fiction. Fiction is allowed to misrepresent reality.

This pretty much sums up what I was going to say. It made me cringe, yeah, but I'm not disgusted by it. I don't think I've ever been disgusted by anything in a game, or a movie, or a tv show, etc., because fiction =/= reality. It isn't real.

 

[DjinnFor]

I think it's pretty bad to not only put the player in the position of a torturing protagonist

I think it's great to put the player in the position of a torturing psychopath, as it makes the message Rockstar was pushing that much more potent, particularly if the player is squeamish about torture or morally opposed to it.

but also to imply that information obtained under torture is reliable.

Good thing Rockstar never implied that, then.

In fact, the entire scene was a brutal deconstruction and shaming of torture both in the fetishism modern entertainment has with it but also its real-world usage by the American military. Trevor, the torturer and "protagonist", literally explains (through a conversation that, while directed to another character, might as well be talking to the player for how blatantly fourth-wall shattering it is), in detail, exactly what that scene was meant to portray a mere handful of seconds after the scene completes.

Anyone who missed Rockstar's insultingly obvious and blatant criticism and disdain for the events it depicted in favor of crying "ew torture" needs to 1) grow the fuck up, 2) leave journalism and the entertainment industry entirely for effectively peddling libelous statements, and 3) go hang themselves in order to save the rest of the world from their utter stupidity.*

*I'm being facetious here, escapist mods, it's only a joke.

 

[deserteagleeye]

It's Grand Theft Auto. Rated M and all that. You don't even need to do the mission to beat the game. Just fail it a couple times and it'll let you skip.

 

[Doom972]

Well people get shot every day in various conflicts around the world as well. It's a real thing. Does this mean we shouldn't have it in video games?

Games like GTA V puts you in a fantasy world where you can get away with horrible things that can be done in real life as well. That's its purpose, and the reason it sold so well.

Children have no reason to play an age 18+ game, and are therefore irrelevant to the subject.

It's Grand Theft Auto. Rated M and all that. You don't even need to do the mission to beat the game. Just fail it a couple times and it'll let you skip.

You can skip a mission after failing at it twice? How come no review I read/watched mentioned this? Now this is a real flaw with the game.

 

[Mersadeon]

Did they condemn the torture scene in James Bond? Or in any book that has one? Of course not. Because videogames, you know. Videogames.

Don't get me wrong, Amnesty is way cool. Those guys do good work. But if they wanna do this PETA style, I'll loose respect real fast.

In the end, it's about creative freedom. If we have a work of perverse torture porn, then we have that. It's still fiction. It's the whole Dragon's Crown thing again - an artist does not have to apologise for his art. No matter how heinous it might be in my eyes, who am I to tell him to stop it? Nobody forces me to watch it.

...Actually, have any Amnesty-people ever seen anything from Warhammer 40k?

 

[MrGalactus]

An interesting article here about a mandatory torture scene in GTA V:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/18/grand-theft-auto-5-under-fire-for-graphic-torture-scene

What do you think? I have to say I'm with Amnesty here (apart from the obligatory 'children may see it' nonsense - seriously, why don't they get called out about that? You wouldn't let your 5-year old watch Scarface). I think it's pretty bad to not only put the player in the position of a torturing protagonist, but also to imply that information obtained under torture is reliable.

You remember the bit right after the scene were Trevor and torture victim guy are talking? Torture victim guy would've said everything anyway, and Trevor says he knows, doesn't care, and did it specifically to spite the FIB and give the guy a "cause", in Trevor's head at least. Moral of the story, Steve Haines is a torture-happy **** who rationalised it with the results, and Trevor is a torture happy **** who rationalised it in some weird Trevor kind of way. The torture was neither useful nor necessary to anyone in the story, but had R* played it safe and removed the scene or made it unplayable to ease the potential backlash, they would've been no better off. Compromising the game for the consumer based on the "edgyness" of the content isn't cool.

 

[Vivid Kazumi]

The scene should be a wake up call to most americans.this is what criminals like bush and obama call "advanced interogation" and is still used today against people

 

[Milanezi]

I must be a horrible person: that was one of the few moments in the game I TRULY loved. I couldn't stop but smile as I made the prick puke out information (that he was willing to give anyway, but as Trevor says "Torture is for the torturER"). I didn't even have to use those adrenaline injections, I went slow and steady, enough to keep it long, painful and efficient. Heh, I guess my ancestors were inquisitors or something hahahahahaha (maniac laugh)

 

[Milanezi]

This scene was very mild, by the way, I've seen plenty of feature films and even some tv shows with 'worse' scenes. if you can't handle it, this game offers you the option to skip both cutscenes as well as playable portions of missions that you're not cut out for. There's even an achievement for doing enough of it, it's the "Mouthbreathing Beatnick" achievement/trophy.

"Knife or fire? KNIFE OR FIRE?!" heheheh That was heavier

 

[Depulcator]

You mean to tell me a group hates something about GTA?! NO WAY! Get in line with the others.

 

[Demongeneral109]

the fact people are debating this is extremely entertaining, more entertaining than the mild torture scene. if you think Trevor is bad, you don't want to know what I would have done being gifted an undocumented and told to just make sure he disappears pretty much, let alone after said undocumented tells me that he has a family and where they live while I have his conditioned trust.

This is a questionable response, not to mention it expresses strong racist undertone. You seem to be a troubled individual, the exact fuel for the arguments Amnesty and "liberals" are posing. That statement alone makes you a perfect candidate for psychiatric evaluation. Not meant as an insult, full respect for your freedom of speech - but that opinion is definitely suspect!

As for whether the torture was mild or not is not what I feel the concern or outrage is about. I feel it's more focused on the specificity and detail put into THAT portion as a PLAYABLE scene, versus say making the Helicopters a little easier to fly while SHOOTING at something! (Lord knows that needs adjustment) Just a thought...

look at his post count and history, obvious troll is obvious

 

[Esvees]

Just played through this scene yesterday, it's frankly disgusting. I'm not squeamish, I've worked in war zones, but this was completely uncalled for.

It's not even remotely funny, so you could hardly call it dark humor as the "joke" at the end is entirely on the victim. The victim for all anyone knows is innocent, there is nothing at all to suggest he is anything other than a guy unlucky enough to meet the wrong person once and provide a description. And the information from the torture checks out, so you could hardly call it a skewering of torture as a way to gain information.

Then to top it all off, the entire mission is scored on how nastily you torture the victim.

There are some instances where the game gets the tone right and is funny, but I found a lot of it borderline and unfunny. At times it is just plain nasty (take Floyd's treatment by Trevor for example). There are moments I feel really insulted as if Rockstar thinks we're all moronic teenagers like Michael's son to find this shit funny, despite the mature rating.

This crap really is giving games a bad name. I'm all for realism, freedom of speech and violence in context, but this was pointless. Rockstar won't care as I didn't buy many of their games previously either, but I'm not supporting this silly shocking for publicity's sake anymore.

 

[nokori3byo]

I haven't read this entire thread but assume some minor SPOILERS are being chucked around here.

I can definitely see why people would have a problem with this scene and it definitely made me uncomfortable, but I don't in any way feel that it "glamorizes" torture. I saw it more as being a moment of complex character development for Trevor, whose subsequent actions reveal a more nuanced understanding of torture as a means of asserting power. Also, being part of a controllable video game sequence, it had the effect of compromising the player's sympathies and bringing about a discomfiting shock of recognition: just as the psychotic Trevor is a cat's paw for government agencies, he's the player's only interface with that portion of the game. For T's establishing character moment earlier in the game, we saw him do something loathsome, brutal, and cowardly only to be thrown into his shoes moments later ("What!? I don't want to be this guy!"), whereas in the torture scene becoming a "hands on" advocate of GTA's long-alleged sociopathy is the only way to progress.

 

[ghostshoot27]

I'm confused as to why the game feels it's necessary for it to make a point about torture at all. I mean....torture is clearly bad and dehumanizing. Isn't this sort of a well established fact by now?

That said, I would prefer if video games didn't try to take political swipes at people like movies have been doing more and more recently. I find that sort of "entertainment" tiring as it's always deliberately one-sided, making sure to paint the other side as poorly as possible. I've actually stopped watching movies as often as I used to because it's got to the point where I can't go see a new movie without some lame political stance rammed down my throat. If video games start down this path too, I'm not sure this is a hobby I'll maintain as I get older.

I play games to get away from the stupidity of reality, so please stop trying to remind me how stupid reality is.

I would prefer if video games didn't try to take political swipes

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHAAHA! Where have you been the past year friend. I fucking positively love the irony in your post. Games have been used as soap boxes for as long as I can remember, LOOK AT THIS FUCKING THREAD! Its about some fool trying to use a game as a soap box. Every one uses games to further their agenda now. Game to voilent make a blog post. Game doesn't have a women make a blog post.

 

[Netrigan]

What? The entire mission, the other characters are questioning how shaky the info is.

Well, yes, but there's only so much cover "satire" will give you. Having finished the game there's quite a number of places where I think they stepped over the line and having someone say "satire" afterwards doesn't wash. Does satire make it okay the host of Fame Or Shame is bullied non-stop about his sexual orientation? Does satire make it okay to make light of torture by mixing gruesome actions with glib humor.

Rockstar doesn't exactly make their positions on issues vague. They've got no problem stopping the game so a distinguished Mexican-American can deliver a sermon about how all the stuff you just did was morally reprehensible... but it's a really, really, really lazy way of getting your message across. There's an anti-torture message there, but playing it for laughs in the middle of a completely meaningless mission is probably not the best way to address the issue.