GTA V: Satire or Parody

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

Well, I will be perfectly honest, I have not played the games and was only interested in this question after watching the following video

From the jokes and stuff that I saw, it looked as if the game was trying to undermine it's own points with cynical snark. It doesn't help that these jokes seem more one-off hits on culture than any actual long-term commentary.

On a personal level, the anime parody is hammering a point that has been made in our community over and over again and the beer sponsor doesn't help.

I'm not sure if the game actually does make major comments on the things it talks about or if it just mocks them.

 

[Evonisia]

Personally I think GTA's writers are trying to be satirical, but they're just terrible at it. GTA V especially has an amazing amount of world building and detail made all the more mind blowing by the size of the map (though most of it is just empty deserts), but undermines itself with (as the video identifies) terrible jokes and ham fisted attempts at satire.

The only reason I wouldn't call GTA V or GTA IV parodies is that the stories take themselves very seriously. GTA V is basically just like Saints Row: The Third, desperate to tell us this grand story about whatever moral they are trying to send, but juxtaposes it against world building and gameplay designed to just goof off and have fun. My friends send near enough four clips each from GTA V every day on the Xbox One version of lol funny things that happen in Los Santos.

You can't have it both ways, either grow up and learn how to balance them like Saints Row 2 did (admittedly that's neither satirical or parody on the whole), or commit to your parody (like Saints Row IV with The Matrix, among dozens of references and in-game jokes which don't contradict with the story or gameplay).

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

If GTA V is satire, its bad satire. Much of it is woefully outdated and lazily written, and honestly so much of it just seems misanthropic, like that somehow everybody is deserving of ridicule, except for me, of course, cuz I'm the one who calls everyone out for being dumb! GTA V is basically one big Holden Caulfield, calling everybody else stupid. Its that whiny little emo shit from high school who thinks "nihilism" means "***** and moan with a smug air of superiority about how everything is stupid and pointless". And then whenever GTA V decides to actually try to be serious about something, to be genuine, it gets close, but then drops off. It reminds me of the jock in english class who wanted to talk in depth, but didn't because they knew that they'd be labeled as a nerd if they did. In that regard, it seems like the game was written by one of those whiny teenage nihilists and by an adult who is much older and well past that stage, but doesn't want to come off as too genuine because then the whiny teenager will think less of them.

You know, that comment you made about Catcher in the Rye sounds an awful lot like what Errant Signal has done.

I do agree though that apathy and nihilism about anything leads to nothing. if having a stance makes you dumb, than not having one makes you blind to the world. The world has a lot of dumb and stupid thing but we are capable of changing people slowly. Whether the pace will be enough is the big question

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I really can't stand Dan Houser's writing. Max Payne 3 is one of the worst games I've ever played because I hated the writing so much, I didn't much care for the shooting either. I tried playing RDR and hated the writing there as well, there wasn't even any semblance of story and I gave up when I got to Mexico. I really think if Dan Houser was writing in any other medium, he'd be considered a hack. Just because writing in games is so bad across the board is really the only thing that doesn't make his writing seem that bad.

 

[Casual Shinji]

It's juvenile name calling at best. It's satire in the same way that Jackass is slapstick comedy.

 

[Imbrium]

I really can't stand Dan Houser's writing. Max Payne 3 is one of the worst games I've ever played because I hated the writing so much, I didn't much care for the shooting either. I tried playing RDR and hated the writing there as well, there wasn't even any semblance of story and I gave up when I got to Mexico. I really think if Dan Houser was writing in any other medium, he'd be considered a hack. Just because writing in games is so bad across the board is really the only thing that doesn't make his writing seem that bad.

Have to agree with this. Red Dead Redemption is the only thing he's been involved with that had anything like a decent story (although parts of GTA IV and TLAD weren't bad), but even that has some really awkwardly written moments.
Rockstar needs a new lead writer.

 

[stroopwafel]

GTA5 is a cleverly written mockery about celebrity worship, talent shows, social media, family life, stereotypical 'gender identities', anti-terrorist laws, interagency rivalries, capitalism etc. The list goes on. I recently completed a second playthrough of the game on PS4 with a more observing eye and suddenly appreciate the game a whole lot more. GTA5's story is an exaggeriation of the kind of 'media society' that hypes everything up to 11, with obviously LA as its epicenter(or Cali in general for its wider contrast). The playable characters themselves being the semi-tragic products of this environment.

I think its cool they didn't went for another cliche attempt at character drama which nearly always falls apart in a videogame(espescially non-linear ones), but instead went for creating hilarious thematical context in all kind of directions that extrapolates the absurdity of the characters in the game.

GTA's story is blamed for being no more than an elaborate 'dick joke' but that's doing the quality of the writing a disservice imo. Yeah, its relentlessly cynical but also honest in its exaggeration. Its the world we live in through a media lens. On top of that its breathtakingly realized with a technical ingenuity that's near flawless. They finally nailed the driving and shooting mechanics as well.

 

[Mikeybb]

Satire in places, parody in others and a big homage cherry on top.
What it doesn't do often (if at all) is subtlety, but then that doesn't fit very well with gta anyway.

 

[Scow2]

If GTA V is satire, its bad satire. Much of it is woefully outdated and lazily written, and honestly so much of it just seems misanthropic, like that somehow everybody is deserving of ridicule, except for me, of course, cuz I'm the one who calls everyone out for being dumb! GTA V is basically one big Holden Caulfield, calling everybody else stupid. Its that whiny little emo shit from high school who thinks "nihilism" means "***** and moan with a smug air of superiority about how everything is stupid and pointless". And then whenever GTA V decides to actually try to be serious about something, to be genuine, it gets close, but then drops off. It reminds me of the jock in english class who wanted to talk in depth, but didn't because they knew that they'd be labeled as a nerd if they did. In that regard, it seems like the game was written by one of those whiny teenage nihilists and by an adult who is much older and well past that stage, but doesn't want to come off as too genuine because then the whiny teenager will think less of them.

You know, that comment you made about Catcher in the Rye sounds an awful lot like what Errant Signal has done.

I do agree though that apathy and nihilism about anything leads to nothing. if having a stance makes you dumb, than not having one makes you blind to the world. The world has a lot of dumb and stupid thing but we are capable of changing people slowly. Whether the pace will be enough is the big question

But what's the point of changing people, and on who's authority are you trying to do so?

 

[Verlander]

I watched the video. Honestly, I disagree with many of his points, but I don't blame him (even if he is disgustingly arrogant). The whole time I was playing the game I was thinking "I find this funny, but I doubt some Americans will get the joke".

The individuals, and adverts, and tv/radio stations etc are exaggerations of real life. Find them insulting? Good, you're supposed to, because the point is that real life IS insulting. John Cleese essentially made an entire career out of this simple concept, as did many other British comedians and comedy writing. The beer advert? A parody of American adverts turned up to 11. The political discussion? Ditto. It's probably funnier from a British perspective anyway, because those areas of American culture seem exaggerated already. Unfriendly people on the streets? Check. A culture based on the objectification and commodification of women? Check. Vapid celebrities and celebrity culture? Check. And of course this requires the game to be set in a super realistic world. The commentator might have disliked how some of the commentary needs to be spelled out for the player, but would they prefer the option for the player to get super powers? Commentary goes out of the window completely at that point. In fact, the "Rampage" sections and the bit where one of the characters get high and fights aliens are among the weakest parts of the game for me.

I worry that some people in the US are so used to satire being Jon Stewart sitting down like a news anchor and talking about how Fox news is stupid, that they can't take more subtle commentary... even when it's as in your face as this! I'd imagine it can be difficult for some people to get, because they're too close to the subject matter. Many Americans might not understand what's so strange about political advertising, or why the "hick" culture of the US is of such fascination to outsiders. But answer me this: if you were to write satire about Tokyo, would would you include? Bizarre shopping options from vending machines? Tiny living spaces? Heavily populated areas? People dressing up and huge emphasis on japanese products (and the advertising that goes with it)? Cultural strains from being a neutral country, but also a proud one with a strong history? Xenophobia?

It also amuses me that GTA is often the target by angry left-wingers. I have no shame in admitting that I'm a lefty myself, and GTA is fighting our side. Sure, they get a few digs in at the left, because fair's fair, but there's never any glorification of the behaviour. In fact, the weakest part of GTA is almost certainly the player - in a successful game, the player needs to win or pass achievements... which is tricky when you're playing the three looser main characters.

 

[Casual Shinji]

snip

I'm not American and I don't get the joke either.

The purpose of satire is to take something and twist it in a way so as to expose the idiocy of it all. What GTA5 does is take something the writers don't like -- which is seemingly everyone and everything apart from the three main characters and their own writing -- and dress it up in a chicken suit with a pee stain. This can work in a more cartoony setting, and it did for Rockstar all the way up to Bully, but ever since they went for realism Dan Houser's writing just comes across as that of a disgruntled teenager. Instead of putting a twist on something, he just yells really loud about how it's stupid. 'Life Invader... Get it? A middle finger for a mouse cursor... Get it!?'

And all of this would be somewhat bearable if not every character in the game was a giant shitbird. Now you just have every character walking around with dirty undies on their heads screaming about how everything sucks.

 

[josemlopes]

That video is really bad, especially the cougar part.

It really shows how usually empty and vague those video analysis are, if the cougar wasnt there he would have said that the world was lifeless and only served as a static place. Complaining that a cougar that he previously saw ruined his moment because he decided to do nothing about a fucking cougar doesnt put the blame on the game but on the player.

 

[stroopwafel]

It really shows how usually empty and vague those video analysis are, if the cougar wasnt there he would have said that the world was lifeless and only served as a static place.

Absolutely. It's just near 20 minutes of pretentious whining while absolutely nothing of substance is said. He complains Los Santos is a beautiful place but eventually an 'illusion'. Ehmmm..yeah it's a fucking game. He complains GTA5 is only about 'poop jokes' but GTA4 took itself 'too seriously'. This guy is so caught up in his self-proclaimed understanding of what makes a good story and game-design that he contradicts himself in his own shitty video.

 

[Adamantium93]

'Life Invader... Get it? A middle finger for a mouse cursor... Get it!?'

This is my biggest problem with GTAV's "humor" (and humor in a lot of games). It just tries way too damn hard and its all low hanging fruit. Yes, we get it, beers like Budweiser and Keystone Light taste like piss. Yes, Facebook is invasive. Yes, gun stores being practical chain retailers is only a few steps away from what we have now. The problem is, these are all things we know. These are jokes we've been telling each other for years. GTA doesn't do subtlety or depth. It jumps in, labels every single thing it can think of with a witty (and, theoretically, satirical) name and says "Hey, isn't this HILARIOUS?"

No, GTA. It is not.

Added to that, there is not one likable character (even among the playable characters) in the whole game.

 

[Izanagi009_v1legacy]

But answer me this: if you were to write satire about Tokyo, would would you include? Bizarre shopping options from vending machines? Tiny living spaces? Heavily populated areas? People dressing up and huge emphasis on Japanese products (and the advertising that goes with it)? Cultural strains from being a neutral country, but also a proud one with a strong history? Xenophobia?

If I was trying to make a satire of Japan, I would have done something revolving around the generational gap between the youth and the older population, the problematically competitive nature of schools and the isolationist attitude of Japan at times.

Oh wait, they already made that. It's called Battle Royale: a dark brutal takedown of how overly competitive the high school system is and how the generational gap leads to issues.

To address everyone, I decided to look for official definitions of satire and parody and found these from Merriam Webster:

Parody [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parody]: a piece of writing, music, etc. that imitates the style of of someone or something in an amusing style

Satire [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satire]: a way of using humor to show that someone or something is foolish, weak, bad, etc.: humor that shows the weaknesses or bad qualities of a person, government, society, etc.

So by the definitions stated, the majority of the jokes in the video shown were exaggerations of existing medium but it didn't focus on the problems and just pushed it out there. Satire, in my mind, requires a dedicated mindset and that you often want to target one thing really well instead of doing everything poorly

It really shows how usually empty and vague those video analysis are, if the cougar wasnt there he would have said that the world was lifeless and only served as a static place.

Absolutely. It's just near 20 minutes of pretentious whining while absolutely nothing of substance is said. He complains Los Santos is a beautiful place but eventually an 'illusion'. Ehmmm..yeah it's a fucking game. He complains GTA5 is only about 'poop jokes' but GTA4 took itself 'too seriously'. This guy is so caught up in his self-proclaimed understanding of what makes a good story and game-design that he contradicts himself in his own shitty video.

Hum, he said that he liked people watching and that the world of Los Santos was well rendered with a lot of people and designs but that the game elements like bad path AI and insane death scenes break it.

Yes, games are illusions but good writing and art can make it so that we don't care that it's an illusion and we just absorb ourselves into the world. Anything that can break that absorption and we immediately take notice and argue lack of investment.

 

[MysticSlayer]

Saints Row: The Third, desperate to tell us this grand story about whatever moral they are trying to send

I think if Saints Row: The Third had any moral message, it presented it through the sheer absurdity of the whole situation. The most I can even think of is using STAG as a commentary on police militarization and removal of rights under the guise of "security", but considering all of the ridiculous things that had to happen to lead up to that point, I'd say that Saints Row firmly committed itself to absurdity. It just realized that that absurdity could be easily used to make fun of something other than entertainment.

OT: Personally, I love Errant Signal's videos. He does a decent job if getting you think about the consistency of mechanics and the relationship between those mechanics and the narrative. Even if he isn't right, his videos are at least sort of thought provoking.

With that said, I really, really would advise against taking any of his videos too seriously unless you've played the game. Of the games I have played that I've seen his videos of, he has a very, very nasty habit of missing important, sometimes clearly stated details, and this has often led him into rants on stuff that can be easily discredited by saying, "You missed X." For instance:

Spoiler: Dishonored spoilers inside

In Dishonored, there is one mission where you have to kill the lover of the current antagonist. As the game clearly states both by characters and in the mission statement, this is due to her giving him money to help fund his operations, and you want to cut off that money supply in the hope of cutting off enough resources to make it easier to get to him. Chris completely missed this and claimed that the game was having you kill a woman for daring to be sexually active. As he put it:

"That's what you get for being a sexually liberated woman!...Her crime was sleeping with a dude."

Now, in all fairness, he did at least mention the financing part, but he played it off as unimportant for...some reason. I guess I figured it was "too buried" in the...conversations...and mission statement...yeah.

Anyways, he used this as a starting point for a rant on the game's presentation of women, but any good points he brought up were just impossible to take seriously when I kept remembering that he was willfully skimming over important details to make his point.

There are some other examples, but that is the one that stuck out to me the most.

Overall, if you've played the game, his videos are an excellent way to think about what the game did right and wrong, in part because you can actually critically analyze what he says and compare it to your own critical analysis of the game and come to your own, meaningful conclusion in the end. Otherwise, he's really only there to think about games in general, not about any specific game, as you are bound to have a horribly warped view of the game given his tendency to warp the game to fit what he wants to say, rather than just saying what is relevant to the game itself. As a result, I'd say that you should play GTA V before taking everything said in the video as the way GTA V actually is.

 

[NiPah]

It's satire that uses parody and other methods to portray it's overarching storyline and message.
I'd recommend playing the game if you want a better understanding of it, explaining how well or how poorly such a huge game tells it's message is a personal experience.

Also in the end it's a game where you can steal a city bus and run over pedestrians, it has been since it's first iteration came out 18 years ago, if you want a more settle nuanced approach to storytelling stick with Yakuza.

 

[josemlopes]

Hum, he said that he liked people watching and that the world of Los Santos was well rendered with a lot of people and designs but that the game elements like bad path AI and insane death scenes break it.

Yes, games are illusions but good writing and art can make it so that we don't care that it's an illusion and we just absorb ourselves into the world. Anything that can break that absorption and we immediately take notice and argue lack of investment.

Yeah sorry but no.

Even if GTA can have some bad AI at times its nowhere near as bad as say, every other game, if he complains about how the AI reacts in GTA he might aswell not try to play any game. What happens if you get in front of a person and just keep staring at them in most games? Nothing, most of the times they dont even look at you. In GTA they take notice and sometimes get annoyed, they may leave or they may start telling you to stop and insult you, if you keep staring they may start a fight.

The other example of the ambulance, I would like to hear him say any game that did that flawlessly when most games still have the cops running over pedestrians.


And if the cougar was an example of an insane death scene then what would he think of STALKER?

He saw the cougar before he attacked, he chose to ignore it, there was nothing insane about it.


To me it feels like the game did so much more then others but still had some things that were at the same level making that stuff stick out more, what I dont get is how that is a bad thing since making the game worse overall to compensate those parts that arent as evolved is a terrible idea.

 

[kilenem]

I think its satire. They deal with a lot of social issues like racism, torture, politics and they make fun of other games.