Gun advocate mocks Australia's tough laws

[Balimaar]

Before I set off with the main point of this thread - CAPTCHA: milk was a bad choice HEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHE

Anyway back OT:

A US gun lobbyist has said Australia is not on the same planet as the US when dismissing the success of Australian gun control laws.

Spoiler

Article link: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/04/22/19/01/gun-advocate-mocks-australia-s-tough-laws

Head of the Virginia Citizens Defence League Phillip Van Cleave made the comments during an interview with correspondent John Oliver that aired on the Daily Show last Friday.

After Mr Van Cleave said that it was impossible for gun control to ever work Oliver suggested the example of Australia disproved his point ? prompting a bizarre answer from the firearms advocate.

"It's not the United States. It's some other planet: different people, different everything ... but in the real world, with human beings, it's not going to work and gun control isn't going to work. "

When Oliver told him that Australia had not had a single shooting massacre since gun laws were reformed in 1996 the lobbyist first dismissed the evidence as a "statistical anomaly" before saying that Australia experienced very few mass shootings anyway.

Oliver then showed him footage of the implementor of Australia's gun laws, former prime minister John Howard, saying that the nation suffered 13 massacres in the 18 years before guns laws were reformed but had not seen a single one since 1996.
April 16, 2013: Australia has been described by Daily Show reporter John Oliver as "comfortably racist" during his Bugle podcast.

Mr Van Cleave then backed himself into a corner by saying "unless you can get rid of 100 percent of crime, it's not worth doing anything at all."

When Oliver pushed him on it the gun advocate changed his analogy to swimming pools.

"There are more drownings in backyards where they have swimming pools," he said.

"If they don't have a pool, there are no drownings in backyards, okay? So if the US has a very high number of guns, therefore, there's going to be more chances for somebody to be killed with a gun."

"That?s my point," Oliver replied.

The episode segment was the first of three that Oliver has filmed while on assignment in Australia, and has since been widely shared online.

Last week the English-born reporter made headlines and provoked outrage when he described Australia as the most comfortably racist place he had ever visited in his Bugle podcast.

This coming from a gentleman who lives in a nation where sadly there have been many massacres directing his comments at Australia... a nation that has had great success with gun control...

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

I think the people who are most likely to be outraged by this are other gun advocates.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I hate that idiots like this make the rest of us reasonable gun owners look bad.

I do agree with Cleave that the US and Australia aren't really comparable in terms of violence, but the way Cleave said it made him sound like an ass who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

 

[Zhukov]

Eh, that's fine.

I'll just be over here enjoying my comparatively low murder rate and complete absence of gun massacres in a country where someone firing two shots (from a bolt-action rifle) into someone else's garage door is enough to make the papers.

 

[Kolby Jack]

I laughed my ass off when the guy said that. Oliver is pretty good at these interviews. Maybe the British accent makes American politicians more at ease or they think he's not a joker at all or something. Either way, the guy is a master at his craft. I do think America in this case could learn a few lessons from Australia, or at least that one Australian politician who sacrificed his political career to actually do what he believed was right. But I'll avoid voicing any of my opinions on actual gun control because otherwise this thread will be thrown into the Sarlacc Pit known as R&P. If it's not going to be already.

 

[DoPo]

Eh, that's fine.

I'll just be over here enjoying my comparatively low murder rate and complete absence of gun massacres in a country where someone firing two shots (from a bolt-action rifle) into someone else's garage door is enough to make the papers.

Yeah, go ahead - revel in your statistical anomaly-ness. See if I care.

OT: ...ok not really that OT but why does a "gun advocate" sound like a "gun preacher". I can totally imagine one (or several) going door to door trying to spread The Word and recruit more people.

 

[Knight Templar]

This was on the Daily Show?

I don't know how much one can draw from that without full context, but Mr Van Cleave does come off a ignorant, even if the point that you can only compare America and Australia so far is a valid one he doesn't seem to realise that it does have some uses.
I don't think our gun laws are tough though.

 

[Scolar Visari]

A US gun lobbyist has said Australia is not on the same planet as the US when dismissing the success of Australian gun control laws.

It's true. What works in Australia doesn't translate very well into another country vastly larger, with actual physical neighboring nations and a vastly different culture.

I'm not arguing either side and I personally couldn't give more than one-half of two fucks about anyone mentioned in that article or their opinions.

 

[Euryalus]

-snip-

Find peace in the way of the bullet young one, and you will be set free XD

OT: Yeah, he's an idiot, making reasonable gun "advocates" look bad. Dumb people What can ya do? XD

 

[xDarc]

How many major metropolitan areas does Australia have with populations of more 250,000 people?

Now, how many are filled with poverty and drugs?

I'm tired too of people trying to compare statistics of the United States to their country. If we gave you Detroit, Chicago and DC, you'd look like a violent madhouse too.

I live in Detroit area and our murder rate is comparable to Somalia. This does not reflect the majority of the United States, but it does throw the stats off quite a bit when you take all the ghettos we have and add them in to the national average.

Which would suggest that the problem is not guns, it's too many poor people with too much drugs with too little to live for and very little respect for life, packed much too closely together. You're gonna have a bad time.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I hate that idiots like this make the rest of us reasonable gun owners look bad.

I do agree with Cleave that the US and Australia aren't really comparable in terms of violence, but the way Cleave said it made him sound like an ass who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

I don't think he knows what the hell he's talking about. "Some other planet"? "The real world"? "Statistic anomaly"? How hard is the guy trying not to lose the argument?

 

[Arakasi]

Australia is the most comfortably racist place I've been. But mostly because I've never been outside Australia. I think that Australia does have a lot of overt racism, but I also think that people here are less likely to act on that racism (aside from voting against pro-immigration policies) whereas in somewhere like America, you seem to be more likely to get your head caved in.

 

[TechNoFear]

How many major metropolitan areas does Australia have with populations of more 250,000 people?

More than in the US (per capita)...

Australia has an urbanization rate of 89%, compared to the US of 82%.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2212.html

Australia also has a more multicultural society than the US.

Now, how many are filled with poverty and drugs?

Australia has similar drug, race and poverty issues.

But Australia is not spending the US$10s billions each year the US spends cleaning up after all those firearm crimes, so we have more to spend on the things that make life easier/better (ie full public healthcare, US$16/hr min wage, liveable social security, etc).

I'm tired too of people trying to compare statistics of the United States to their country. If we gave you Detroit, Chicago and DC, you'd look like a violent madhouse too.

Ummm...Redfern?

Which would suggest that the problem is not guns, it's too many poor people with too much drugs with too little to live for and very little respect for life, packed much too closely together. You're gonna have a bad time.

There are plenty of places in the world like that, filled with poverty, drugs, violent crime and a population with an overblown sense of entitlement (I have visited and/or worked in many of them).

The only real difference in the US is the easy access to a firearm.

 

[Tombsite]

snip

The segment is a lot more fun to watch than to read

People should also watch the follow up. Just to see the politicians get their fair share of the shame.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Dude that video scared the hell out of me. What the fuck is wrong with the average voter in the US that encourages these guys to behave like this? O_O

 

[VanQ]

Fuck him. It's because of our tight gun laws that I can walk down the road to university every day and not have to worry about whether some idiot is packing a handgun. I'm quite happy with the state of our gun laws myself.

 

[2fish]

Dude that video scared the hell out of me. What the fuck is wrong with the average voter in the US that encourages these guys to behave like this? O_O

Anxiety over losing rights + America hates to lose + very few organized groups and many small unorganized cannot beat a big player like the NRA. Once you gain the power an office gives you I guess you don't want to lose it?

 

[Thaluikhain]

or at least that one Australian politician who sacrificed his political career to actually do what he believed was right.

Er, who do you mean? The Howard government passed the gun laws, and he remained as PM through to 2007.