Gun advocate mocks Australia's tough laws

[the clockmaker]

A US gun lobbyist has said Australia is not on the same planet as the US when dismissing the success of Australian gun control laws.

It's true. What works in Australia doesn't translate very well into another country vastly larger, with actual physical neighboring nations and a vastly different culture.

I'm not arguing either side and I personally couldn't give more than one-half of two fucks about anyone mentioned in that article or their opinions.

And we aren't suggesting that we adopt our laws whole cloth. It is more a heads up of 'these are concepts that you should take under advisement in adopting your own laws' You know, if the US ever stopped listening to nutcases and actually adopted those laws.

Before I set off with the main point of this thread - CAPTCHA: milk was a bad choice HEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHE

Anyway back OT:

A US gun lobbyist has said Australia is not on the same planet as the US when dismissing the success of Australian gun control laws.

Spoiler

Article link: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/04/22/19/01/gun-advocate-mocks-australia-s-tough-laws

Head of the Virginia Citizens Defence League Phillip Van Cleave made the comments during an interview with correspondent John Oliver that aired on the Daily Show last Friday.

After Mr Van Cleave said that it was impossible for gun control to ever work Oliver suggested the example of Australia disproved his point ? prompting a bizarre answer from the firearms advocate.

"It's not the United States. It's some other planet: different people, different everything ... but in the real world, with human beings, it's not going to work and gun control isn't going to work. "

When Oliver told him that Australia had not had a single shooting massacre since gun laws were reformed in 1996 the lobbyist first dismissed the evidence as a "statistical anomaly" before saying that Australia experienced very few mass shootings anyway.

Oliver then showed him footage of the implementor of Australia's gun laws, former prime minister John Howard, saying that the nation suffered 13 massacres in the 18 years before guns laws were reformed but had not seen a single one since 1996.
April 16, 2013: Australia has been described by Daily Show reporter John Oliver as "comfortably racist" during his Bugle podcast.

Mr Van Cleave then backed himself into a corner by saying "unless you can get rid of 100 percent of crime, it's not worth doing anything at all."

When Oliver pushed him on it the gun advocate changed his analogy to swimming pools.

"There are more drownings in backyards where they have swimming pools," he said.

"If they don't have a pool, there are no drownings in backyards, okay? So if the US has a very high number of guns, therefore, there's going to be more chances for somebody to be killed with a gun."

"That?s my point," Oliver replied.

The episode segment was the first of three that Oliver has filmed while on assignment in Australia, and has since been widely shared online.

Last week the English-born reporter made headlines and provoked outrage when he described Australia as the most comfortably racist place he had ever visited in his Bugle podcast.

This coming from a gentleman who lives in a nation where sadly there have been many massacres directing his comments at Australia... a nation that has had great success with gun control...

And a country without any of the problems America faces...

Which means Australia =/= America. Which is true.

Not all nations are the same nor have the same capabilities, so stop treating them that way.

Yeah, because we don't have issues in ethnic integration, drug smuggling or a nearby failed/failing state.

I am so fucking tired of people who know nothing of Australia trying to use it as a point one way or the other.

And before the inevitable occurs. Yes, Australians know more about the US than yanks do About Australia, that is a fact of the way that the international media works and everybody needs to accept it.

 

[dumbseizure]

or at least that one Australian politician who sacrificed his political career to actually do what he believed was right.

Er, who do you mean? The Howard government passed the gun laws, and he remained as PM through to 2007.

He means Rob Borbidge, who was Queenslands premier. He helped implement gun control, even though it killed his political career to do it.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

A US gun lobbyist has said Australia is not on the same planet as the US ...

Umm...quite. What planet does he think it's on then? Someone needs to go back to school methinks.

Don't care about US gun laws anymore. If they're happy for their children to get shot, who are we to tell them they can't murder their own kids?

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

Although it pains me to say it because I really dislike guns; whilst the video was hilarious, I'm not particularly surprised that he won a debate against someone who seemed basically unprepared. Just because that guy didn't have any valid arguments, doesn't mean there aren't any.

 

[Thaluikhain]

or at least that one Australian politician who sacrificed his political career to actually do what he believed was right.

Er, who do you mean? The Howard government passed the gun laws, and he remained as PM through to 2007.

He means Rob Borbidge, who was Queenslands premier. He helped implement gun control, even though it killed his political career to do it.

Ah, ok, that makes sense.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

Oi, u wna go m8? Cum ovr ere an say that 2 my fac, cheeky c*nt.

No but really, I sort of agree with Mr. Van Cleave. Switzerland has a massive level of gun ownership because the vast majority of people undergo compulsory military training and can keep their guns afterwards. Not quite the same percentages as the USA, but drastically lower gun crime. Which means basically that there are countries with both attitudes towards guns that manage to be fairly peaceful. The difference is that people are less sensible with them in the US than they are in Switzerland. You can't copy paste methods from other countries to sort out your own national problems, you need a tailored approach.

It is pretty hilarious though that the "criminals will get them anyway, why not Zoidberg everyone" approach, taken to its logical conclusion, is you might as well legalise everything because criminals don't follow laws.

 

[BoredAussieGamer]

As an Australian: Piss off Mr. Van Cleave.

We use our fists in Australia. It's manlier than guns!

On a serious note, I'm glad we have tough laws on guns. Feels nice knowing I can just leg it from most muggers who aren't smart enough to corner me.

 

[marurder]

Some idiot desperately trying to preach to the choir that 'western' society' - specifically a country that is extremely similar to the US in many ways - so much that others refer to it (sometimes) as the 51st state; approach to gun control is flawed.

 

[TAdamson]

Oi, u wna go m8? Cum ovr ere an say that 2 my fac, cheeky c*nt.

No but really, I sort of agree with Mr. Van Cleave. Switzerland has a massive level of gun ownership because the vast majority of people undergo compulsory military training and can keep their guns afterwards. Not quite the same percentages as the USA, but drastically lower gun crime. Which means basically that there are countries with both attitudes towards guns that manage to be fairly peaceful. The difference is that people are less sensible with them in the US than they are in Switzerland. You can't copy paste methods from other countries to sort out your own national problems, you need a tailored approach.

It is pretty hilarious though that the "criminals will get them anyway, why not Zoidberg everyone" approach, taken to its logical conclusion, is you might as well legalise everything because criminals don't follow laws.

Switzerland has pretty different Gun Laws though. Yes you are allowed to keep your service weapon at home but only in a gunsafe and you are not allowed ammunition for it outside of gunranges unless you are on the rapid callup list.

This was to reduce the rate of suicides and murder-suicides that having easily accessible firearms engenders.

They have lower crime but that is far more likely to be due to the far lower poverty rate.

 

[Floppertje]

is it just me or does 'Phillip van Cleave' sound like a bad slasher movie villain?

 

[CriticalMiss]

Mr Van Cleave then backed himself into a corner by saying "unless you can get rid of 100 percent of crime, it's not worth doing anything at all."

Better get rid of the police then, won't that be great? I'm sure the Mexican Drug Cartels and the Mafia will treat you well. They're pro-gun too! And all the money you save from not having law enforcement could pay for all of the state funerals you will have for the unidentifiable bodies left lying around. Hey, maybe he is on to something here...

 

[Evil Smurf]

Fuck him. It's because of our tight gun laws that I can walk down the road to university every day and not have to worry about whether some idiot is packing a handgun. I'm quite happy with the state of our gun laws myself.

Amen.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Fists have always been cool.
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Seriously think about fists.

 

[knight steel]

Gwhahhahahaha

Spoiler: Oh wait your serious

oh oh my side's hurt make it stop XD

Silly American's of course we are from a different planet why do you think we have so many dangerous ungodly creatures it's because they are actually aliens

Anyway everyone knows that guns are useless against drop bears >_<

Spoiler: Completely accurate pic of a drop bear

 

[Vausch]

Eh, that's fine.

I'll just be over here enjoying my comparatively low murder rate and complete absence of gun massacres in a country where someone firing two shots (from a bolt-action rifle) into someone else's garage door is enough to make the papers.

Question: How hard is it to immigrate to Australia and how are your opportunities for mechanical and electrical engineering jobs?

 

[MrHide-Patten]

A US gun lobbyist has said Australia is not on the same planet as the US when dismissing the success of Australian gun control laws.

It's true. What works in Australia doesn't translate very well into another country vastly larger, with actual physical neighboring nations and a vastly different culture.

I'm not arguing either side and I personally couldn't give more than one-half of two fucks about anyone mentioned in that article or their opinions.

Those shifty Canadians, always acting nice, its a ploy to invade the United States of Umericka!

 

[SilkySkyKitten]

I hate that idiots like this make the rest of us reasonable gun owners look bad.

I do agree with Cleave that the US and Australia aren't really comparable in terms of violence, but the way Cleave said it made him sound like an ass who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

So do I, man. So do I...

It's people like these that, even though I love guns and don't agree with banning them outright, make me despise many gun lobbyists as well as organizations like the NRA with a burning passion of a thousand suns. They're too preoccupied with this false and illogical notion that any form of gun control is "against 'merican values and freedom!" that they just make themselves look like a bunch of overzealous nutjobs. Plus, they in turn make reasonable gun enthusiasts look bad just out of association.

It really sucks being a gun nut with an actual brain sometimes. =/

 

[JemothSkarii]

Eh, that's fine.

I'll just be over here enjoying my comparatively low murder rate and complete absence of gun massacres in a country where someone firing two shots (from a bolt-action rifle) into someone else's garage door is enough to make the papers.

Question: How hard is it to immigrate to Australia and how are your opportunities for mechanical and electrical engineering jobs?

Getting in? Not as hard as the U.S I believe (Okay, our citizenship test is kinda bullshit, but before that isn't too bad. Friend got married to his wife in February and is still waiting on his Green Card)

Engineering/Electrical? Go to Queensland and Western Australia. They need those all the time, pay rate is huge too...but so is the cost of living.

 

[Vausch]

Eh, that's fine.

I'll just be over here enjoying my comparatively low murder rate and complete absence of gun massacres in a country where someone firing two shots (from a bolt-action rifle) into someone else's garage door is enough to make the papers.

Question: How hard is it to immigrate to Australia and how are your opportunities for mechanical and electrical engineering jobs?

Getting in? Not as hard as the U.S I believe (Okay, our citizenship test is kinda bullshit, but before that isn't too bad. Friend got married to his wife in February and is still waiting on his Green Card)

Engineering/Electrical? Go to Queensland and Western Australia. They need those all the time, pay rate is huge too...but so is the cost of living.

How about schools, do they do well for abroad scholarships?

Ok don't wanna get in trouble for going off topic XD