Hack Kinect, Win Money

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Your right, but that application is one that is being designed by someone else to work with the Kinect camera. Just like Logitech has no say over what programs I use my mouse with MS has no say over what programs or applications the Kinect camera is used with. They would like to think they do but they are wrong.

Fix'd again, you're having trouble with that capital S there...

Being designed by someone else by using Microsofts coding... the whole point of hacking the device.

It's morally questionable at best, but whatever I can see Kinect becoming incredibly useful in medical science so it's all good and well.

 

[rsacks]

For an MIT graduate her choice of words is very very poor. To reverse engineer something is taken to mean figuring out the principles a device, software or other object, operates on so that one can build the device themselves. Since Microsoft has filed a patent on the technology the Kinect uses, it would be illegal to break it apart, figure out how it's built, build it the same way and market it yourself (Much like the auto companies did to Robert Kearns).

But from reading the article, that's not what they want to do. All they want to do is figure out how the device outputs information and use it for a purpose other than playing games. This is nearly identical to using PS3's linked together to form a supercomputer. You're not building your own PS3's and trying to market them, all you're doing is figuring out how they process information and then using them to processes information you feed them that isn't a game.

 

[tkioz]

/sigh

Microsoft's comments just piss me off here, ffs, the only reason to have protections in a device is to prevent piracy, you can't claim taking about something someone paid for is illegal.

If I want to take apart a radio and build something out of it, I'm bloody well allowed too, I paid for it, fuck the manufacture, the same goes for computer and games systems, if we want to take them apart and use them for something else, we damn well can, so long as we don't do it allow the playing of pirated software.

You'd think they'd be all for this honestly, it means more sales of the device... then against given the history of loss-leading console hardware (I forget, are they making a profit or a loss on the kinnect?) I could see them being a little ticked, but honestly if you sell something for less then it costs to make, you've got no right to *****.

 

[Lucane]

For all the possibilities they mention they think they can get out of Xbox Kinect You'd think 2.... heck $10,000.00 would be to little for the keys(ability to repeat the process of open sourcing)a Kinect device from a store.

 

[Direwolf750]

rulings could only be done every 3 years with the DMCA. do you not research these people? the earliest the ruling could come down on would be past 2012. The case against the hacker would be settled well before that.

restarted cause it was getting annoying. Yes, rulings can only be done every 3 years. THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. the ruling HAS ALREADY BEEN PASSED in regards to jailbreaking. By rules of legal precedent, in the United States, a court case with a similar situation can be used as evidence in another one. I mentioned nothing in regards to a case being charged against a hacker, and I have no idea how you interpreted that.

What I was saying about research was that I was skeptical that the jailbreaking case was restricted to "phones" ALONE in the first place. I believe it extends to more than just the iphone, but I don't care enough to go find out. Please actually read what I am saying before you spew baseless crap about it.

 

[Urgh76]

I shouldn't have to explain the picture by now XD

 

[Shycte]

this video sums it all up. lawsuit time is upon us.

Oh please, PLEASE, explain to me how taking apart a piece of hardware you legally bought and using it for an unintended puprose is illegal? It says nothing about them using M$ software. It would be no different than taking my refrigerator apart and using it as a place to set plants. Somehow I doubt Whirlpool will get butthurt about it.

The way this reads is that this company wants to use the Kinect camera with different perfectly legal software. M$ can't do a damn thing about that. There is nothing illegal about buying a Kinect and using the camera portion for something other than playing Xbox games.

I think you should take time and read that long text that everyone forces you to accept. The terms of use you know?

 

[Xanthious]

I think you should take time and read that long text that everyone forces you to accept. The terms of use you know?

So your saying that there are terms of use to buy a Kinect camera? Are they making the cashiers get your signature now when you check out at the local Walmart? Somehow I doubt that. You agree to absolutely nothing when you buy a Kinect camera. But by all means, if you can show me something I might have missed feel free.

 

[kouriichi]

Well.... the wires go here.... and theres a little camera there.... and this micro thingy there.....

Can i have the 2k now?

 

[SimuLord]

There is a HUGE difference between idea diffusion (company makes motion sensor that can read and output distance, which leads to someone else attacking the same problem with all-original ideas, making something quite different) and theft of an idea (taking apart a Kinect to build a product with the same technological makeup.)

The former is best exemplified by Microsoft and Sony seeing Nintendo build the Wii and thinking "OK, let's build our own motion-control devices". All-original products from MS's and Sony's engineers don't step on Nintendo's intellectual property (well, maybe Move does, but that would be like Nintendo suing Sega for putting a D-pad on the Master System or Ford suing GM for putting a steering wheel on the first Chevrolet. There's a limit to originality-vs-pragmatism.)

The latter is, in a word, illegal.

 

[Nurb]

I will enjoy watching this play out

 

[SilentHunter7]

Oh please, PLEASE, explain to me how taking apart a piece of hardware you legally bought and using it for an unintended puprose is illegal? It says nothing about them using M$ software. It would be no different than taking my refrigerator apart and using it as a place to set plants. Somehow I doubt Whirlpool will get butthurt about it.

The way this reads is that this company wants to use the Kinect camera with different perfectly legal software. M$ can't do a damn thing about that. There is nothing illegal about buying a Kinect and using the camera portion for something other than playing Xbox games.

Because the Kinect hardware is patented, and reverse-engineering and distributing patented hardware has been illegal for centuries.

They don't care if you manage to plug it into a Mac. They do care, however, if you post the specs and how it works on the internet for all to see.

 

[Xanthious]

Oh please, PLEASE, explain to me how taking apart a piece of hardware you legally bought and using it for an unintended puprose is illegal? It says nothing about them using M$ software. It would be no different than taking my refrigerator apart and using it as a place to set plants. Somehow I doubt Whirlpool will get butthurt about it.

The way this reads is that this company wants to use the Kinect camera with different perfectly legal software. M$ can't do a damn thing about that. There is nothing illegal about buying a Kinect and using the camera portion for something other than playing Xbox games.

Because the Kinect hardware is patented, and reverse-engineering and distributing patented hardware has been illegal for centuries.

They don't care if you manage to plug it into a Mac. They do care, however, if you post the specs and how it works on the internet for all to see.

But that is in no way illegal. People post specs and technical information for all kinds of patented things. Hell there are sites out there that SELL those exact things for things like appliances, computers, cars, etc. Patenting something only protects you from having people make and sell the same thing. By your logic those books that are sold at the auto parts store that document a tear down and rebuild of any number of make and model cars would be illegal. There is bugger all M$ can do about this except impotent bitching. Now if they were using M$ software or making their own cameras based on Kinect specs that would be a different story. . .

 

[Staskala]

For all the possibilities they mention they think they can get out of Xbox Kinect You'd think 2.... heck $10,000.00 would be to little for the keys(ability to repeat the process of open sourcing)a Kinect device from a store.

It's a company specialising in hobby engineering, not in "real" commercial or scientific use. I highly doubt they make that much money to pay more.
Besides, you can bet your ass that actual robotics and aerospace companies and research institutes have far, far more advanced stuff than the kinect lying around.

That's why I don't think it's a big deal, it's just a bunch of DIY-ers goofing around, nothing more.

 

[CaptainCrunch]

It's important to note that the hack they're looking for is primarily a driver for the hardware. It's along the same lines as using a Wii Remote or standard 360 controller on your computer.

What Microsoft doesn't seem to understand is that people are going to do this to any hardware they come up with, and that it's not always going to be for nefarious purposes. In fact, the hobbyist community will probably come up with some interesting things that utilize Kinect hardware that will in turn boost sales for Microsoft.

 

[SilentHunter7]

But that is in no way illegal. People post specs and technical information for all kinds of patented things. Hell there are sites out there that SELL those exact things for things like appliances, computers, cars, etc. Patenting something only protects you from having people make and sell the same thing. By your logic those books that are sold at the auto parts store that document a tear down and rebuild of any number of make and model cars would be illegal. There is bugger all M$ can do about this except impotent bitching. Now if they were using M$ software or making their own cameras based on Kinect specs that would be a different story. . .

But they ARE using MS software. Why do you think they're trying to hack it? Yeah, they may rewrite it so that it'll work with a PC, rather than an Xbox, but it's still Microsoft's code they're going to be using.

Unless someone somehow manages to write a driver from scratch, which if they could, they would've already done it with an array of web-cams.

 

[Xanthious]

But that is in no way illegal. People post specs and technical information for all kinds of patented things. Hell there are sites out there that SELL those exact things for things like appliances, computers, cars, etc. Patenting something only protects you from having people make and sell the same thing. By your logic those books that are sold at the auto parts store that document a tear down and rebuild of any number of make and model cars would be illegal. There is bugger all M$ can do about this except impotent bitching. Now if they were using M$ software or making their own cameras based on Kinect specs that would be a different story. . .

But they ARE using MS software. Why do you think they're trying to hack it? Yeah, they may rewrite it so that it'll work with a PC, rather than an Xbox, but it's still Microsoft's code they're going to be using.

Unless someone somehow manages to write a driver from scratch, which if they could, they would've already done it with an array of web-cams.

Funny I don't see that being said anywhere. All I see is this company wants someone to write their own open source application that makes use of the Kinect camera. The camera just sends output about depth and whatnot. What they want is a program that will read and make use of that output. Just because a program can make use of the output coming from the camera doesn't mean it's breaking any laws.

 

[Shycte]

I think you should take time and read that long text that everyone forces you to accept. The terms of use you know?

So your saying that there are terms of use to buy a Kinect camera? Are they making the cashiers get your signature now when you check out at the local Walmart? Somehow I doubt that. You agree to absolutely nothing when you buy a Kinect camera. But by all means, if you can show me something I might have missed feel free.

Well, not when you but it. But if you are going to use it...

Just because you own it, it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with that technology.

 

[SpecklePattern]

this video sums it all up. lawsuit time is upon us.

Oh please, PLEASE, explain to me how taking apart a piece of hardware you legally bought and using it for an unintended puprose is illegal? It says nothing about them using M$ software. It would be no different than taking my refrigerator apart and using it as a place to set plants. Somehow I doubt Whirlpool will get butthurt about it.

The way this reads is that this company wants to use the Kinect camera with different perfectly legal software. M$ can't do a damn thing about that. There is nothing illegal about buying a Kinect and using the camera portion for something other than playing Xbox games.

It is so easy to make that illegal. Just "read instructions before use" and in instructions "any other use than... is forbidden". Bam. I think many companies have these things in instructions. Usually though the unintentional use is just to protect the company. So rarely illegal but still the company can sue for missuse

 

[Xanthious]

I think you should take time and read that long text that everyone forces you to accept. The terms of use you know?

So your saying that there are terms of use to buy a Kinect camera? Are they making the cashiers get your signature now when you check out at the local Walmart? Somehow I doubt that. You agree to absolutely nothing when you buy a Kinect camera. But by all means, if you can show me something I might have missed feel free.

Well, not when you but it. But if you are going to use it...

Just because you own it, it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want with that technology.

Actually, unless I'm breaking any laws owning it means exactly that I can sue it however I want. Using it in a way that M$ doesn't want me to doesn't constitute breaking a law.

It is so easy to make that illegal. Just "read instructions before use" and in instructions "any other use than... is forbidden". Bam. I think many companies have these things in instructions. Usually though the unintentional use is just to protect the company. So rarely illegal but still the company can sue for missuse

So by your logic if they put a line in the instructions that I had could only use the device every other Wednesday playing it on a Saturday would be grounds for legal action? What if they decided that they wanted to put a line in there that I also forfeited all my wordly possessions to them as well? By your logic they could sue me if I didn't hand over all my stuff. Even if what you were saying was anything close to reality, which it isn't, they would have no proof of consent.

Manufacturers are not allowed to tell you how you can and can not use hardware. They are allowed to make it as big a pain in the ass to use it unintentionally as they want, that is their choice to do so, but they have no actual say what you can and can not do with it once you legally purchase it.