Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban

[simple64]

Thing is, I don't usually approve of a zero tolerance policy either, at least on these sorts of online situations. However, this is a pretty big mess at Live. It's well known to be a pretty sucky place to go, and that's its general reputation. Rather than getting all pissy at the method used now, be upset at the fact that it has come to this. Everybody saying that "there were always options to silence losers", well, they aren't working anywhere near, apparently.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

Spoiler

Given that infinity ward is a studio that employs predominatantly or even solely men, it's lower down or entirely off IW's radar, plus the culture there is fucking toxic towards women, I know, I got a co-op job there for a semester.

I'm actually interested. How is the culture there "fucking toxic towards women"? Depending on who's talking and where they're talking about, I've heard that phrase and similar describe anything from "doesn't take special care to accommodate women" to "actively discriminates" to "actively treats women like property."

To everyone saying "just use mute".

... Do you not understand that one of the main appeals of a thriving online multiplayer community is being a part of the community? Do you realize what you're saying? "If the community abuses and excludes you, then don't be a part of it" is the same thing as saying that games are a boy's club and anyone not straight/white/male need not apply.

Come on now. This is victim blaming 101.

So, it's victim blaming and excludes you from the community to say "If this person is being an asshole, bar them from interacting with you"? How exactly does that exclude you from the community, or does XBL not have that feature that PSN and every MMO ever made has where you can permanently shut off communications with specific people who you do not wish to speak with or hear from again?

It seems like that feature would make it difficult to harass someone, simply because they can turn you off and then you're just shouting at the void. Bonus points if it doesn't tell the person being ignored that they're being ignored.

These people are breaking the rules, I don't see why them getting punished for it is a bad thing.

Zero tolerance policies are almost always a bad thing. Zero tolerance policies that cannot be contested always are. They lack any kind of nuance by definition. This is literally effectively a "my rights end where your feelings begin, punishable as severely as is possible within this domain" policy.

This kind of thread again?
This could have been made much better and much much less rage inducing by saying they will ban ALL abusive comments. But women's problems get special preference, as always and the related thread turns into a flame war as always.

If you read the fine print, it actually does say that, they're just drawing extra-special attention to women in the interview.

Forget solving them, we can't even talk about problems only men face. The words Male Rights Activist has become an insult on Escapist.

Sure you can, so long as you accept the argument from primal misogyny -- that men's problems are really women's problems. So quit trying to make it about men, because we're talking about women here. This same argument has been used in the past to try to keep people from talking about gay rights (gay men are only discriminated against because they are seen as woman-like, therefore homophobia is really about misogyny, so quit trying to make it about men, we're talking about women here).

I have never seen female dominated mediums making concessions for men, I have never seen them criticizing women. Men do both and we are still evil?
Can someone just post some good things about men so I don't feel my gender is being targeted as evil?
I have resorted to not talking to women at all(except for work-related stuff) to make sure they know I am not harassing them, that I am not one of those kind of people.

There's a lot to say about women's space, men's space, and male and female dominant spaces and the expectations placed on them, but yeah, to put it in the most basic terms, women's and female dominant spaces are fine, men's spaces need to be destroyed, and male dominant spaces need to be forced to change to explicitly accomodate women and make them more comfortable seems to be the general social consensus.

To give an example, if someone were to plan a LAN party for the launch of some FPS open to whoever would like to RSVP, no women permitted, there would be an uproar about what evil sexist monsters they are for not wanting to be inclusive of women. Want to plan a women-only pre-party for a con? That's awesome! You go girl!

Women seem to have gotten into the habit of forcing things to change for them instead of adapting these days.

This would be one of those things to say about male-dominant and female-dominant spaces -- men in a female-dominant space are expected to conform to the space, whilst women in a male-dominant space expect the space to conform to them.

People are offended by 343i taking away the right of pricks to be dicks? I'm baffled.

I don't like sexism either, but I hate the idea of banning people for being dicks.

this is not about the problem you see with society (as in I cant be a prick anymore! PC police dammit!)

I mean some of the people on there are just dicks!

It all comes down the simply this ONE thing: "Don't be a dick"
...
If you're a total douche who has no social life and enjoys demeaning people you've never met, you're just a prick. (BANNED)

To the five of you above: If the Escapist followed the kind of policy described in the article, and assuming it wasn't itself only enforced in a sexist fashion, that comment right there should have you permabanned on the spot, since you used terms for male genitals as a pejorative, no different than using the terms "****", "twat", or "pussy" to describe some person or group in a negative light.

Since you approve of the kind of policy described, I assume you will hold yourselves to it and request a self ban from the moderators, right?

(You replied to me in the last section of your post)

Your argument of me needing to request a self ban for the use of the term 'Dick' is completely retarded. Using gender specific terms in insults or swears aren't sexist unless specifically targeted and intended for specific people or genders. I used the term 'Dick' in a generalized term, and as a way to label people who simply harass and troll people. Sexism is defined by specifically going out of your way to pick on the fact someone is male or female. I can easily call a man a ****, or a woman a dick, and yet it isn't sexism.

Being banned for sexism is for doing things like purposefully targeting a girl gamer and making "Get back in the kitchen" jokes, or snide sexual remarks. I'm pretty sure you won't be banned for just generally calling someone a asshole, or a dick, unless you're specifically trying to harass that individual. Overall, it's not the act of "Being a douche" that gets someone banned from online games. It's usually when you are signalling out and harassing individual players, making their enjoyment and time in the game/online a total hell.

So to clarify my position on this topic:

1: Person walks into the room, and yells "FAGGOTS!" (Muted or kicked from game)

2: Person harasses another player non-stop (Sexism or not), and/or continues outside of the game "HEY *****! WHERE ARE THE TIT PICS? TITS OR GTFO NOOB!" (Banned)

3: Person respectfully plays the game without acting like a utter piece of shit, and actually proves to be a decent human-being (Totally awesome)

 

[Nouw]

How about a compromise? Instead of banning them outright, you restrict them from using their mic and messaging people that aren't their friends. At least this way they can still enjoy the game with their friends but don't ruin it for strangers.

 

[beastro]

Don't like this one bit.

Back in my day you griefed a person until they left a server if they pissed you off.

Course in my day exploiting was easier to the greifing was too, hence why I avoid playing FPS' online these days.

 

[Erttheking]

Not on purpose, no. It just comes out that way.

I did. It's insane and it's pandering.

Did I say it's bad to try and get rid of a problem? A problem which I've even acknowledged twice now? No. Stop putting words in my mouth, and reread what I wrote.

Wait wait. You're going to talk about just how the Escapist punishment system works, and you're still incapable of comparing the two and seeing what I mean?

Spoiler

People don't get banned on first offense here. And they don't get banned permanently the first couple of times they actually do get banned. And as somewhat of a side note, people aren't required to pay money to visit.

And that is why you don't have a knuckle-head approach towards moderating. You don't fucking ban people permanently on first offense, at the very least because there might be an error in judgment, but also because the issue you're talking about may not necessarily call for it.

Ugh! I cannot believe people are seriously spouting the "free speech" thing AGAIN!

Listen up, freedom of speech gives you the right to SPEAK! It protects you from exactly ZERO consequences of said speaking, and hateful things ARE NOT PROTECTED! My god, why does every one seem to forget this!?

Get used to it. They also seem to think that private companies on private property are required by law to abide by it and aren't, you know, allowed to deny service when you break their rules.

Someone done fucked the quote up. That ain't me.

Well good...I think

I highly disagree. Sexism on XBL has gotten to the point where many women are uncomfortable with going on and plugging in their mikes when they do so, if this solution is "pandering" to them, I have no problem with it.

I seem to recall your first post said that permanent bans shouldn't be required at all. I flat out said that a debate could be held for a three strike system. However, one could also make an argument that these people have been breaking the rules so many times that if they had been under a system like the Escapist, they would've been under their 20th infraction by now. Also I don't see how people pay for XBL should make it so that they're immune to permanent bans, and as I pointed out before, despite the various warnings that I received, I continued to misbehave until I worked my way towards the end of my health bar and only then did I stop. I don't really think that warnings work to the same degree as the threat of a permeant ban. Also if you're worried about an error in judgement, I would like to point out that I posted a video earlier in the thread that explains how XBL moderation works, in that they go over every report and they never auto-ban someone.

You're not getting it. It's not pandering simply because it's dealing with a problem. This is the fourth time I'm saying this, at least a second time explicitly. I'm out.

I'm just saying that if it IS pandering, I can't really see how that's a bad thing.

 

[SnakeoilSage]

Two days after launch->

Number of Players Online: 0
Number of Players Banned (Lifetime): Everyone.

 

[bounty90]

Guarantee this only applies to sexism towards women.

This is what I figure too.

they will only look after the womenfolk because it is the hot button topic this quarter.

Lets see if they will start permabanning for things like "******, cocksucker, ******, spic, jewlord, towelhead" ect ect

Until they apply their censors uniformly to protect everyone, not just one demographic because of a hotbutton PC agenda, they can fuck right off.

So what? Sexism, ISN'T a problem in video games and shouldn't be addressed?

No it's not when you can just mute them.

 

[Schadrach]

Your argument of me needing to request a self ban for the use of the term 'Dick' is completely retarded. Using gender specific terms in insults or swears aren't sexist unless specifically targeted and intended for specific people or genders. I used the term 'Dick' in a generalized term, and as a way to label people who simply harass and troll people. Sexism is defined by specifically going out of your way to pick on the fact someone is male or female. I can easily call a man a ****, or a woman a dick, and yet it isn't sexism.

So, I can call someone all those assorted terms for female genitalia, female animals, sexually promiscuous woman, or prostitute without them being in any way sexist because they're clearly generalized terms, even if sometimes the target does happen to be female (half the population is, after all)? What about the one that suggests a gourmet appreciation for floor coverings? I would humbly suggest that all those terms will be assumed by default sexist if anyone should complain, much as I assume the like male gendered terms will be permissible because they're not *really* gendered since they don't target women (this being one of those things I've never understood.

I'd also point you to the poster above taking the "words mean things" approach to "******" above, ironically missing the fact that "******" has probably had more and broader meanings than practically any pejorative term ever -- including "burdensome person."

Being banned for sexism is for doing things like purposefully targeting a girl gamer and making "Get back in the kitchen" jokes, or snide sexual remarks. I'm pretty sure you won't be banned for just generally calling someone a asshole, or a dick, unless you're specifically trying to harass that individual. Overall, it's not the act of "Being a douche" that gets someone banned from online games. It's usually when you are signalling out and harassing individual players, making their enjoyment and time in the game/online a total hell.

So to clarify my position on this topic:

1: Person walks into the room, and yells "FAGGOTS!" (Muted or kicked from game)

2: Person harasses another player non-stop (Sexism or not), and/or continues outside of the game "HEY *****! WHERE ARE THE TIT PICS? TITS OR GTFO NOOB!" (Banned)

3: Person respectfully plays the game without acting like a utter piece of shit, and actually proves to be a decent human-being (Totally awesome)

Unfortunately, the phrase "zero tolerance policy" literally removes all room for nuance (otherwise, it wouldn't be zero tolerance). Also, we've had several people in this thread claim that single, individual comments by themselves can constitute harassment.

 

[AgedGrunt]

They can't even enforce current policy regarding discrimination. This is merely a scare tactic, and while it may work on some prepubescents, not all and certainly not adults. Wrongful abuse of reporting has long been a thing to try to get someone banned. XBL has to be inundated with years of false reports and, out of the obvious limitations of humans, even legit reports go unanswered.

This is idealism, fascist and logistically impossible to realize for many reasons, especially the subjective nature this rule of conduct is governed by. Somewhere, a Language Police officer's judgment must decide whether or not the speech is acceptable.

But hooray, we can go play again and not be insulted or offended! Umm, sure, keep telling yourselves that five minutes into your first Halo 4 match when your sexual history is described in detail by your opponent. A month later, he (most likely) will not be banned.

Go back to XBL, everyone, your Microsoft is in control.

 

[Erttheking]

Guarantee this only applies to sexism towards women.

This is what I figure too.

they will only look after the womenfolk because it is the hot button topic this quarter.

Lets see if they will start permabanning for things like "******, cocksucker, ******, spic, jewlord, towelhead" ect ect

Until they apply their censors uniformly to protect everyone, not just one demographic because of a hotbutton PC agenda, they can fuck right off.

So what? Sexism, ISN'T a problem in video games and shouldn't be addressed?

No it's not when you can just mute them.

If that's the case then said person will just go on to bother another person, and then another person after that. Let's get rid of the problem instead of just ignoring it.

 

[kuolonen]

Can someone explain to me why it is not possible to implement perma mute and/or chatban on the offender, instead of kicking them from the game entirely? Would it really be that hard from a technical standpoint? Is the developer afraid they will continue to harass other players with sign language?

 

[tstilwell]

This is great! I don't usually play online because I am tired of hearing immature idiots talk like their "big boys". I would love to see more companies takes this stance. Maybe, eventually, I will go back to multiplayer.

 

[tyriless]

If there a solution to this problem it would be clear cut rules with harsh penalties for breaking them. Some people call Microsoft fascist for doing this, and I would have to agree except I would do so without disapproval. I do not want Xbox Live to be work by consensus of its user base. Especially considering that half that user base hasn't finished puberty. People may suck, but I garuntee that teenagers suck more. In choosing between what dictates acceptable behavior I will side with company that has interests in the community at large than some brat that thinks "Get back into the kitchen" is hallmark of humor.

 

[Gergar12_v1legacy]

Why not just have a block button where you can't hear what the person your blocking is saying. This is still pretty good, and I hope other games follow suit hint hint Black Ops.

 

[OverweightWhale]

So you can get perma banned just for hurting someone's feelings? This fucking world man. It's the internet, if you don't like it just mute the person or block them.
The problem today is that people get their feelings hurt too easily and demand immediate retribution against the person just because "waahhhh they're beening mean to me"

 

[Nurb]

Do they also give bans when people use "******" and "******"? It's been a while since I paid for LIVE.

 

[Mikejames]

Drat! I've run afoul of Poe's Law yet again!

Blunder on my part friend. ^^

 

[m19]

If that's the case then said person will just go on to bother another person, and then another person after that. Let's get rid of the problem instead of just ignoring it.

Another person has a mute button too. They already give you all the power you need to deal with it.