Halo Wars Demo

pieeater911

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I just finished playing the demo today and I must say that I was pleasantly surprised. It had very good controls for a console RTS, and it felt pretty all around well polished and lovingly hand-crafted.

My only real gripe with it is that, since it's not a PC RTS, you can't hot-key certain units, and it gets really difficult to pick a certain unit out of a group whenever you have to use his special ability right then and there.

I'll definatly rent this game, and, depending on how long the campaign is, how much fun the multiplayer is, and how well the co-op campaign works out, I might actually consider buying it.
 

beddo

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I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.

In my opinion, the Halo Wars demo is pretty poor. The combat is shallow the units are limited. The Halo aesthetic feels like it's been copied and pasted from Halo 2 especially the main menu and user interface in general. I think it's just a less than mediocre RTS.
 

D_987

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beddo said:
I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.

In my opinion, the Halo Wars demo is pretty poor. The combat is shallow the units are limited. The Halo aesthetic feels like it's been copied and pasted from Halo 2 especially the main menu and user interface in general. I think it's just a less than mediocre RTS.
How would you improve it?
 

Mr. Moose

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beddo said:
I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.
Halo was Awesome
Halo 2 was More Awesome
Halo 3 was Awesome, but was ruined because of the hype.
 

beddo

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D_987 said:
beddo said:
I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.

In my opinion, the Halo Wars demo is pretty poor. The combat is shallow the units are limited. The Halo aesthetic feels like it's been copied and pasted from Halo 2 especially the main menu and user interface in general. I think it's just a less than mediocre RTS.
How would you improve it?
Remove it from the Halo universe and start again. Seriously though:


Performance:

It needs optimising, the frame rate often stutters when spinning the camera, though it doesn't get much worse even when many units are on screen.

The limited number of units is a bit frustrating although that's a difficult choice. You obviously have to balance the number of units against hat is reasonably controllable with a console controller.


Graphics:

Graphics are not the game's strong point. It looks a bit too standard. The shaders, textures and lighting used could be significantly improved to make the landscapes appear more dynamic. The ice levels don't actually feel cold.

The infantry units look like they have basic phong shading attached, the textures really don't add much but that's more a problem due to the distance of the camera. Furthermore, the animations of the character models feels quite limited. To make them look like they're not exactly synchronised a basic delay in the animation between the units in a squad appears to have been employed. While this looks okay when many units are on screen it doesn't hold when the camera is in close.

For the animation of the groups I would try to implement a stretch and squish parameter with more random variations for each units movement. When was the last time you saw someone in a game throw something so hard that they stumbled or even fell over? That's what you did at school when trying to throw the furthest.

I would also add in some full screen filters like vignette, it would help create a grittier atmosphere.


Camera:

The camera doesn't have enough range. The user should be able to zoom out a bit more and definitely in a lot more. I'd like to see the camera approaching shoulder level although the performance restrictions wouldn't allow it, still I'd want to get it as close as possible. Another things I'd like to see is some camera interaction. When you're zoomed in on the combat it would be awesome to see camera shake at explosions and RPG or turret launches.


Controls:

The camera on the basic sensitivity setting feels too lose. Console controls are quite restrictive for RTS games but I think Halo Wars could benefit from using a few more button assignments.


Gameplay/AI:

When you have Warthogs and infantry units selected and press the Y button, the infantry all throw grenades and the Warthog drives into ram them. It's just a mess and should damage the Warthog but doesn't. Again, the units should work together based on their characteristics and the targets they are planning to attack.

The AI feels a bit weak. The units tend to just pile into each other. It would be nice to see them feel like they're working together rather than just each being aware of only themselves with path finding techniques used to navigate around their allies.

Units should move into cover on their own. When some units are losing health they should retreat while the stronger ones move up. If a group loses a unit they should be downed, giving the option for the rest of the team to use suppressive fire and drag the injured to cover. When groups are down they should merge into new ones. I kept haveing small groups of three troops who could have formed up.

Why don't some units draw fire while others flank or double back. I know on a PC you could coordinate this type of tactic yourself but with the console restrictions it should be handled by the AI. Why not have different button assigned to different attack styles?

The levels feel very flat. Though they obviously have varying levels of height they are generally just that. Slopes and plains, slopes and plains; it's boring. The level should use more natural gradient like landscapes. For Ice levels they should be more jagged and jarring. Not once did I see a Warthog ramp off a short drop!

I guess it just feels too much like a system for me, it's not fluid, dynamic or engaging enough. I want to feel like I'm orchestrating a battle, not like I'm playing a basic RTS with a coating of Halo.
 

beddo

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Mr. Moose said:
beddo said:
I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.
Halo was Awesome
Halo 2 was More Awesome
Halo 3 was Awesome, but was ruined because of the hype.
How do you think Halo 2 improved on Halo?

I thought the story and levels were weaker. Though the set pieces were grander it just didn't have the same effect for me. Though I did prefer the multiplayer in Halo 2.

Halo 3 was good but the story really dragged.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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beddo said:
Remove it from the Halo universe and start again. Seriously though:


Performance:

It needs optimising, the frame rate often stutters when spinning the camera, though it doesn't get much worse even when many units are on screen.

The limited number of units is a bit frustrating although that's a difficult choice. You obviously have to balance the number of units against hat is reasonably controllable with a console controller.


Graphics:

Graphics are not the game's strong point. It looks a bit too standard. The shaders, textures and lighting used could be significantly improved to make the landscapes appear more dynamic. The ice levels don't actually feel cold.

The infantry units look like they have basic phong shading attached, the textures really don't add much but that's more a problem due to the distance of the camera. Furthermore, the animations of the character models feels quite limited. To make them look like they're not exactly synchronised a basic delay in the animation between the units in a squad appears to have been employed. While this looks okay when many units are on screen it doesn't hold when the camera is in close.

For the animation of the groups I would try to implement a stretch and squish parameter with more random variations for each units movement. When was the last time you saw someone in a game throw something so hard that they stumbled or even fell over? That's what you did at school when trying to throw the furthest.

I would also add in some full screen filters like vignette, it would help create a grittier atmosphere.


Camera:

The camera doesn't have enough range. The user should be able to zoom out a bit more and definitely in a lot more. I'd like to see the camera approaching shoulder level although the performance restrictions wouldn't allow it, still I'd want to get it as close as possible. Another things I'd like to see is some camera interaction. When you're zoomed in on the combat it would be awesome to see camera shake at explosions and RPG or turret launches.


Controls:

The camera on the basic sensitivity setting feels too lose. Console controls are quite restrictive for RTS games but I think Halo Wars could benefit from using a few more button assignments.


Gameplay/AI:

When you have Warthogs and infantry units selected and press the Y button, the infantry all throw grenades and the Warthog drives into ram them. It's just a mess and should damage the Warthog but doesn't. Again, the units should work together based on their characteristics and the targets they are planning to attack.

The AI feels a bit weak. The units tend to just pile into each other. It would be nice to see them feel like they're working together rather than just each being aware of only themselves with path finding techniques used to navigate around their allies.

Units should move into cover on their own. When some units are losing health they should retreat while the stronger ones move up. If a group loses a unit they should be downed, giving the option for the rest of the team to use suppressive fire and drag the injured to cover. When groups are down they should merge into new ones. I kept haveing small groups of three troops who could have formed up.

Why don't some units draw fire while others flank or double back. I know on a PC you could coordinate this type of tactic yourself but with the console restrictions it should be handled by the AI. Why not have different button assigned to different attack styles?

The levels feel very flat. Though they obviously have varying levels of height they are generally just that. Slopes and plains, slopes and plains; it's boring. The level should use more natural gradient like landscapes. For Ice levels they should be more jagged and jarring. Not once did I see a Warthog ramp off a short drop!

I guess it just feels too much like a system for me, it's not fluid, dynamic or engaging enough. I want to feel like I'm orchestrating a battle, not like I'm playing a basic RTS with a coating of Halo.
Sounds like a lot of insanely CPU intensive stuff that isn't even in high end PC RTS's. And everything not bordering on physically impossible can be attributed to unfamiliarity with the controls and the desire to see things more closely than is useful.

beddo said:
Mr. Moose said:
beddo said:
I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.
Halo was Awesome
Halo 2 was More Awesome
Halo 3 was Awesome, but was ruined because of the hype.
How do you think Halo 2 improved on Halo?

I thought the story and levels were weaker. Though the set pieces were grander it just didn't have the same effect for me. Though I did prefer the multiplayer in Halo 2.

Halo 3 was good but the story really dragged.
Halo 2 improved on the original in every way, especially story. Granted there were more "poor end-game levels" but there were a lot more missions in general.

Halo 3 could have done with a longer story, but it nearly eliminated the poor end-game levels of it's predecessors.



Seriously, these are the strangest reasons to strongly dislike any of these that I've ever heard.
 

Mr. Moose

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Kuweekee said:
Sweep117 said:
One thing I really don't like about it is the lack of the ability to form my own units. For example, in AoE, I could make a unit of twenty infantry and assign it to the #2 key, make a unit of cavalry and assign it to the #3 key, and so on... The "Select All Units" and "Select Local Units" options get annoying. If I post some Marines to guard my main base, I don't want them to trudge across half the map to help take out a few Grunts when I have a Warthog or two much closer. I think that if they had given a trigger the same use as the CTRL key when selecting files on a computer, if could've helped out a lot.
If you hold your cursor over a unit and you doubletap the A button, you will get all the units of that type, so that wasn't really an issue for me.

The only thing that I had a problem with control wise was the circle to select units, it's not big enough and when you want to enlarge it you have to move your screen. But that could also be because I'm used to dragging around the units to select them.
If I'm not mistaken, you can use the triggers to select all the units in an area
 

D_987

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beddo said:
Mr. Moose said:
beddo said:
I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.
Halo was Awesome
Halo 2 was More Awesome
Halo 3 was Awesome, but was ruined because of the hype.
How do you think Halo 2 improved on Halo?

I thought the story and levels were weaker. Though the set pieces were grander it just didn't have the same effect for me. Though I did prefer the multiplayer in Halo 2.

Halo 3 was good but the story really dragged.
Halo 2 improved on the original in every way, especially story. Granted there were more "poor end-game levels" but there were a lot more missions in general.

Halo 3 could have done with a longer story, but it nearly eliminated the poor end-game levels of it's predecessors.



Seriously, these are the strangest reasons to strongly dislike any of these that I've ever heard.[/quote]

Yeah, sounds like he wants to hate the games for the sake of it.
 

Eipok Kruden

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pieeater911 said:
I just finished playing the demo today and I must say that I was pleasantly surprised. It had very good controls for a console RTS, and it felt pretty all around well polished and lovingly hand-crafted.

My only real gripe with it is that, since it's not a PC RTS, you can't hot-key certain units, and it gets really difficult to pick a certain unit out of a group whenever you have to use his special ability right then and there.

I'll definatly rent this game, and, depending on how long the campaign is, how much fun the multiplayer is, and how well the co-op campaign works out, I might actually consider buying it.
You can put your reticule over a certain unit and double tap the "a" button to select all the units of that type. Also, have you noticed that when you select more than one unit, all the unit icons show up in the bottom of the screen? Well, by pressing the right trigger, you can cycle through those units one by one and issue commands to a certain unit type. Hope that helps :)
 

Geo Da Sponge

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Based on the demo, I don't think it's perfect; there are still a few issues, but it is a fairly good game. They've certainly done a good job with making the controls work, trading the precision and speed of a mouse for a lot of hotkeys for troop selection which means it still works. The story and cutscenes look really impressive, and I'm looking forward to going through the campaign properly.

Sweep117 said:
One thing I really don't like about it is the lack of the ability to form my own units. For example, in AoE, I could make a unit of twenty infantry and assign it to the #2 key, make a unit of cavalry and assign it to the #3 key, and so on... The "Select All Units" and "Select Local Units" options get annoying. If I post some Marines to guard my main base, I don't want them to trudge across half the map to help take out a few Grunts when I have a Warthog or two much closer. I think that if they had given a trigger the same use as the CTRL key when selecting files on a computer, if could've helped out a lot.
This doesn't really help the problem in most cases, but in this particular example you can use the ability to cycle through 'armies' by pressing down on the d-pad. The army groups are defined by their location, which makes it very easy to cycle between guard groups at different bases or troops moving around the map to hunt the enemy.

Baby Tea said:
My big gripe? It's really REALLY easy. Maybe I should try it on hard (Admittedly, I only played on 'normal'), but normal was crazy easy. I DESTROYED the AI in the skirmish. It wasn't even remotely fair. They had a few units there, but they were walked over with 6 warthogs, 8 infantry, 2 human planes (Forget the name), 4 flamethrower guys, and 3 Spartans. Now, they were all fully upgrade. 100% researched. You know what that means? That means I had the TIME with little need for defense, to sit back, let the money roll in, upgrade everything at my leisure, and then, when I felt like it, walk in and destroy everything without losing a man. That sucks. It shouldn't be that easy.

But whatever. It'll sell well regardless.
Strangely, the AI seems to cope a lot better using the UNSC, actually making an effort to wipe you out using armies of scorpions. Try playing as the covenant aginst them, it's a fair bit harder. Some balance issues here.

beddo said:
When you have Warthogs and infantry units selected and press the Y button, the infantry all throw grenades and the Warthog drives into ram them. It's just a mess and should damage the Warthog but doesn't.
I'd just like to pick you up on this point. They added in the ability to cycle through your units specifically to stop this. If you press Right Trigger while you have a bunch of units selected, you can choose individual unit types. The best use for this is using individual unit abilities.

D_987 said:
Yeah, sounds like he wants to hate the games for the sake of it.
He says he liked them, what more do you want?
 

Lukeydoodly

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I thought it would be pretty bad, but I must say I am very impressed! Very hard and unrewarding to turtle too.
 

Bowstring

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Bleh. I usually don't buy games based on reviews anyway. My taste doesn't always reflect the taste of the big gaming magazines.

(Mount & Blade didn't get much lovin' off a lot of the big reviewers. There there M&B, let me nurse your wounds.)
 

Eipok Kruden

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Geo Da Sponge said:
Strangely, the AI seems to cope a lot better using the UNSC, actually making an effort to wipe you out using armies of scorpions. Try playing as the covenant aginst them, it's a fair bit harder. Some balance issues here.
If you actually got a challenge playing as the Covenant, I assume you're new to RTS games. I played as the Covenant on Heroic (I had Legendary before, sorry) and I walked all over the UNSC easily. There was no major resistance, I literally walked all over them. Hell, I got to the point where I controlled all 3 bases and had so many resources that I was just playing around with different units. Spamming as many units as I could, then recalling them and using the cleansing beam to wipe them all out. I did it with elite honor guards, Scarabs, Hunters, Locusts, Jackals, Grunts, Ghosts, Vampires, Wraiths, Banshees, and I even spammed Engineers for kicks. Then I sent Regret at the base and wiped it all out with the cleansing beam. That is NOT what I would call "difficult." If Legendary isn't difficult, I'll be sourly disappointed.
 

D_987

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Eipok Kruden said:
Geo Da Sponge said:
Strangely, the AI seems to cope a lot better using the UNSC, actually making an effort to wipe you out using armies of scorpions. Try playing as the covenant aginst them, it's a fair bit harder. Some balance issues here.
If you actually got a challenge playing as the Covenant, I assume you're new to RTS games. I played as the Covenant on Heroic (I had Legendary before, sorry) and I walked all over the UNSC easily. There was no major resistance, I literally walked all over them. Hell, I got to the point where I controlled all 3 bases and had so many resources that I was just playing around with different units. Spamming as many units as I could, then recalling them and using the cleansing beam to wipe them all out. I did it with elite honor guards, Scarabs, Hunters, Locusts, Jackals, Grunts, Ghosts, Vampires, Wraiths, Banshees, and I even spammed Engineers for kicks. Then I sent Regret at the base and wiped it all out with the cleansing beam. That is NOT what I would call "difficult." If Legendary isn't difficult, I'll be sourly disappointed.
I'm sure it'll be multi-player where this game shines. 3 v 3 over Xbox live =)