Han Should Have Died in Return of the Jedi, Says Harrison Ford

Logan Westbrook

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Han Should Have Died in Return of the Jedi, Says Harrison Ford

The Star Wars actor had a very specific fate in mind for Han Solo, but says that Lucas wasn't sold on the idea of "dead Han toys."

Harrison Ford's performance as Han Solo in the Star Wars movies played a big role in making him a household name, but Ford says that he doesn't have much affection for the character. Speaking to
ABC News
, he said that he found Han boring, and had actually advocated his death to George Lucas

Ford was asked why audiences hadn't seen Han Solo in any other movies, to which he replied that he thought that it would be too difficult to work the character back into the canon, and even if someone did come up with a way, he didn't find the character particularly interesting. He thought Han should have died in Return of the Jedi, in order to give the movie a little bite, but said that the idea didn't go down well with George Lucas, who apparently didn't see much of a future in "dead Han toys."

Interestingly, this isn't the first time someone close to the original Star Wars movies said that Lucas cared more about merchandising than plotlines. Back in August [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102759-Lucas-Cared-More-About-Toys-Says-Star-Wars-Producer], Empire Strikes Back producer Gary Kurtz said that toy sales had had significant influence over the script for Return of the Jedi, which had also originally called for Han to die.

As good as the original Star Wars trilogy was, the characters weren't exactly nuanced, so it's not hard to understand why actors might find them a little dull to play. Ford arguably had the most interesting character arc out of the principal cast, but it sounds like he didn't especially care for Lucas' insistence that Return of the Jedi should have a happy ending.

Source: via Blastr [http://blastr.com/2010/11/harrison-ford-han-solo-sh.php]



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Elesar

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Well the year before Jedi (1983) Ford was in Blade Runner, where he played one of the most nuanced and interesting characters in cinema. It's understandable that he might have soured on the interesting, but not as deep, Han Solo over that time.

Still Star Wars is nothing but an example of how adversity and mistakes can make something better. Maybe Han staying alive was one of those?
 

Kimarous

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Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
 

Blind Sight

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I actually thought he was dead at the end of the Empire Strikes Back when I watched it the first time at age seven. I liked Han, I thought he was a good, cynical contrast to Luke's blind idealism and Obi Wan's mysterious mysticism. The guy was a master pragmatist at the starting of the movies, but I really didn't like how quickly he gave in to conforming to what Luke and the rebels wanted. Oh well, at least when he showed up at the death star in the first movie his entrance was pretty awesome.
 

icyneesan

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I'd probably would have enjoyed the movie more and shed some manly tears if Han died. If I didn't I'm sure I would have enjoyed seeing fans burn down George Lucus's house down. Well I wouldn't have been born by then, but at least I'd get to hear about it, and see some old footage of it :D
 

Nigh Invulnerable

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Why is this news? I've heard similar things from Ford on the Special Edition DVDs bonus material, which was released over a decade ago, and it contained ancient interviews.
 

kouriichi

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Nooooooo!!
Han cant die! Then who will make love to Chewbacca in the back of the falcon!?!?

Errr..... i mean...... Yes. He should have died for the story..... and such.....
 

eljawa

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while this is old news (watch the behind the scenes on the fourth disk of the Star Wars Trilogy Boxset) I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
 

JediMB

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Han dying would have sucked.

He had to stay around long enough to shoot the Emperor in the back, for Pete's sake.
 

TimeLord

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I don't understand actors who do this.

Here we have successful film/series of films that shaped generations of children and adults alike but at some point after the end of the films we find out that the actor who played the beloved character of the film actually didn't like the character he/she played/wanted his character killed off.

Way for ruining my childhood Ford! Now I can't get an image of Han lying in the grass on Endor with a laser shot between his eyes and surrounded by sobbing Ewoks out of my head!!
 

The Austin

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
Win.

OP: Well, at least George Luscas's bloodlust for cash actually did something GOOD.
 

Popido

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Would have been great. Han dies and Chewbacca goes berserk from witnessing this. And then just leave Chewbacca's fate open-ended.
 
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Nigh Invulnerable said:
Why is this news? I've heard similar things from Ford on the Special Edition DVDs bonus material, which was released over a decade ago, and it contained ancient interviews.
I was just about to post the same thing.
 

WilliamRLBaker

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
A movie is about a script giving forth a story that is well written and connects with people, Its not about pandering to individual tastes of the fans If that were the case then no movie would be originally like it was when in script.

Its obvious that once Starwars became popular Lucas only cared about money after it was over which is why he made some of the choices he did, and why he ruined the entire franchise by producing 1-3 and doing all the edits and directors cut ultimate omega editions of the original trilogy and hes doing it again with the bluray release.
 

gigastrike

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
I was actually gonna post about how I thought that that should have happened. I had no idea that they actually considered it.
 

Logan Westbrook

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
Yeah, I admit it would suck if Han died, even if it did give it a twist, but I think the point of the article wasn't to point out that Ford wanted Han to die, more that Lucas didn't say "NO" because he thought of the fans, he said it because he wanted to sell toys, which is pretty shitty, thought not surprising from him.
 

Jesus Phish

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TimeLord said:
I don't understand actors who do this.

Here we have successful film/series of films that shaped generations of children and adults alike but at some point after the end of the films we find out that the actor who played the beloved character of the film actually didn't like the character he/she played/wanted his character killed off.

Way for ruining my childhood Ford! Now I can't get an image of Han lying in the grass on Endor with a laser shot between his eyes and surrounded by sobbing Ewoks out of my head!!
Harrison was always known to dislike the character. And I think he's right, it would've added that little bit more bite to the movie. It didn't really need it, but it would've added it.

Although, if Han left the picture, who knows what Luke and his sister wouldve decided to do...
 

Logan Westbrook

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He thought Han should have died in Return of the Jedi, in order to give the movie a little bite, but said that the idea didn't go down well with George Lucas, who apparently didn't see much of a future in "dead Han toys."
I knew Lucas was a whore, but I didn't know it went back that far. What the hell happened to him? He used to have vision.

TimeLord said:
I don't understand actors who do this.

Here we have successful film/series of films that shaped generations of children and adults alike but at some point after the end of the films we find out that the actor who played the beloved character of the film actually didn't like the character he/she played/wanted his character killed off.
He said it because he was asked and that's what he thinks. Why should he keep mum about his feelings about his work? Especially after it's been so long. This probably would have been tactless to say during production or soon after the release of the movie, but it's been 30 years!
 

DeathsHands

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It would've added more bite, but probably unnecessary bite (as Jesus Phish said).

Actor's opinions are actor's opinions, nonetheless.
 

Logan Westbrook

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
Lando being the only black guy would mean the genocide of the entire black community lol.

OT: I think Hans death would have been pretty awesome.
 

YodaUnleashed

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Old news, we've heard this story countless times and Harrison's Ford general disdain for the character Han Solo is also widely known. And this off hand comment about selling "dead Han toys", I can't really comment too much upon because I wasn't there, I don't know if Lucas said it jokingly or seriously or whether Mr Harrison's memory is playing up and he never said it at all but again, this sort of accusation about Lucas caring more about the merchandise than the films themselves is old hat, I've heard it so many times I've given up caring and have become totally apathetic to all such comments.

Harrison can say what he wants and the media outlets can report what he says in the way they want, I just love the films and their optimism as opposed to all this negative cynicism. And Han Solo not dieing was an important element of that optimism.
 

Nouw

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Han's death would have to compete with Darth Vader's death and those fighter planes which I felt sad for so no!
 

Frotality

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han should have died at the end of ESB, wouldve made it much more dramatic (not that it wasnt already).

star wars is as much a fond childhood memory for me as for anyone, but i do realize it had a pretty cut and dry plot and characters.

im throwing lucas in the same bag as gene roddenberry now, someone who had a good idea but had no idea how to properly express it; and its only thru luck and the meddling of others that star wars/ trek turned out half decent; we have the prequel trilogy as proof of what happens when lucas does what he wants.
 

Covarr

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I just saw A New Hope for the first time two days ago, and I really don't see what all the fuss is about. It's a good movie, but not nearly as good as many say it is. But yeah, Han is an underdeveloped character, at least in IV, so I can see why Ford doesn't like him. His entire damn transformation is offscreen, in a matter of minutes.

P.S. Thanks
 

Fr]anc[is

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Every time I read an article like this I keep thinking Star Wars is better off in the hands of anyone other than Lucas. Thanks for lightsabers and wookies, but let the big boys take it from here
 

warboss5

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Ford should read some of the extended universe books, Han gets a lot of... um... PAGEtime? in those, as do his eventual kids. Courtship of Princess Leia by Dave Wolverton and The Corellian Trilogy by Roger MacBride Allen come immediately to mind.
 

Yureina

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Han dying would have been a horribly traumatizing experience for me when I was a child. :(
 

Logan Westbrook

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Icehearted said:
Reminds me of Whil Wheaton and how much he hated Whestley Crusher.
I hate both Whil and Whestley. The episodes about him are just fucking awful and makes me want to cry
 
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Didn't Ben Kenobi originally die because Alec Guinness was bored of the character?

Yeah...not looking great for your future projects is it George?

But no, Han shouldn't have died. That would have been shit. Seriously. That then leaves Leia doing the whole "Nooooooooooooooooooooo!" bit, which as we've seen, doesn't work.
 

Littaly

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The Amazing Tea Alligator said:
Nigh Invulnerable said:
Why is this news? I've heard similar things from Ford on the Special Edition DVDs bonus material, which was released over a decade ago, and it contained ancient interviews.
I was just about to post the same thing.
I'll third that. Just like Kurtz's (Kurtz'?) little rant a few months back, this isn't really front page news.
 

Random Argument Man

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Didn't Ben Kenobi originally die because Alec Guinness was bored of the character?
I thought he asked George Lucas to die on the pretense that Kenobi's death would make him a better character. That, and he didn't liked Kenobi for some reason.

Even with this logic, Han's death would've sucked. At least with Kenobi, it was somekind "Well, I leave all my hope to you kid".
 

Therumancer

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Well, I think Harrison Ford has gotten sort of arrogant. Truthfully I think Han Solo did a lot to define that kind of character rather than it having been quite the same stereotype at the time. As someone who has gone on to become a serious actor, he seems to be one of those who wants to look down on his early work/past. William Shatner was the same way for a long time, but seemed to come around.

Good actor, but I think he needs to be a little more respectful towards one of the big franchises that made him, and a role that he will probably be remembered for, for all time.

As far as the series having a happy ending, Harrison Ford is 150% right about that. As far as I remember hearing, Star Wars and it's lore was planned out before the movies were made, and George Lucas was looking at options like doing it in Japan with an all-Japanese cast at the time in order to make it.

One of the key concepts that was more directly mentioned in the prequels is that idea that the universe works in cycles. A lot of the storyline works around the concept of Fate and Destiny as much as anything. "The Force" isn't just an energy field to be manipulated, but something that literally directs the universe in specific directions. Ultimatly what happens is that the universe works in cycles where Good rules, there is a period of balance (briefly), then evil rules. Few people understand this, and in the "Star Wars" movies we're seeing the end of an era of good.

The prequels didn't convey it well, but a big part of what was going on was that Anakin "bringing balance to the force" was misunderstood as him being there to defeat The Sith rather than the Jedi (the only place for them to go was down since they were in charge). The Emperor *ALSO* misunderstood it, by thinking that the new era of "The Dark Side" could be ruled by him, when he was actually just a tool to bring about the time of balance. Anakin killing him was expected when you get down to it.

See, one thing the prequels didn't focus on (but mentioned) was how "the Force" was cloudy for specific people, there was always a prophetic prescence in the universe, and part of Anakin's entire problem wasn't so much him being corrupted but the universe literally conspiring to make him do paticular things. This is why bits like his mother being gang raped by Sand People (causing him to massacre them in a rage) were important. Things beyond his control were pretty much being made to happen specifically to steer him in other directions, as soon as he'd seemingly have his ducks in a row... BAM! George Lucas wasn't a good enough writer to convey that though, truthfully I think the problem was that the actor knew the role but had a garbage script. The concept was cooler than how it was represented.

As far as the prequels and the whole "Midicholoria" thing, I believe that was implemented badly but was intended to give The Force a tangible prescence to be used in further works. See, when your dealing with an entire story about the futility of human existance, pre-destination, and similar lofty conflicts, there is this natural instict for people to rage "this is wrong" and want their free will. The storyline for "Knights Of The Old Republic II" was apparently in part written by George Lucas and was based around that concept specifically. Kreia wants to kill "The Force", while a disciple of "The Dark Side" she is actually motivated by wanting to give people back their free will (for good or ill). One of the problems with the entire endgame in this storyline is that the bit about "how does one kill a metaphysical concept?" is never really explained, albiet she apparently came up with a way, the first step of which was to kill off both of the major orders of Force Users. The ending of KoTR blows chips due to the problems, however Midicholoria DOES mean that if that is what "The Force" has to work through, by destroying those symbiotes (with another bioweapon or a nano plague or something), one could prevent "The Force" from interfering in mortal affairs.

While I think liscensing issues have so far prevented George Lucas from doing sequels (for reasons I won't get into yet again), I have long suspected that the nature of "The Force" and overcoming it's mechanitions would be the logical next step. Albiet not many people (including most of the extended universe writers) don't get it.

At any rate, "Star Wars" caught on big with kids and I think that George Lucas very much did decide to soften the impact, and ended it on what seemed to be a high note for that reason. Technically the way the story should have ended was with the same basic victory, but a bit of a focus on what was actually coming.

Honestly though, I'm not entirely sure that killing Han would have been the right desician to be entirely honest. Strictly speaking I think the character that should have died would have been Luke. With Luke, Yoda, The Emperor, and Vader all dead and no remaining known Jedi Or Sith the universe would have been poised in balance between purely mortal forces (Imperial Remnants Vs. Republic Remnants) with the big question being which force users were going to rise in the shadows.... (and in this case, it should have been made clear that it would probably be dark ones).

Such are my thoughts.
 

spartan1077

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George Lucas caring more about money than fans? Impossible. Inconcievable! Abolutely right.

If Han Solo did die, it might have made the movies far better...or it might have made them terrible. Since they are putting the movies in 3D without remaking them, maybe they should make some sort of spoof will all the chracters that the actors thought were boring are dead. Then Lucas can make even more money and not have to pay any actors.
 

Ironic Pirate

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
This conversation (I assume) took place before there was any kind of test audiences involved, as it didn't sound like George even wanted to film it. Therefore, unless he time-traveled into the future, and then came back, he wouldn't have known that.

And test audiences shouldn't always be listened too. There's a Cracked article somewhere about nine movies that were ruined by last minute plot changes, many suggested by test audiences.
 

Woodsey

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TimeLord said:
I don't understand actors who do this.

Here we have successful film/series of films that shaped generations of children and adults alike but at some point after the end of the films we find out that the actor who played the beloved character of the film actually didn't like the character he/she played/wanted his character killed off.

Way for ruining my childhood Ford! Now I can't get an image of Han lying in the grass on Endor with a laser shot between his eyes and surrounded by sobbing Ewoks out of my head!!
Does the fact that he probably pulled the trigger burn just that little bit more?

OT: Indiana Jones > Han Solo (but Star Wars > Indiana Jones films, obviously).
 

TimeLord

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Woodsey said:
Does the fact that he probably pulled the trigger burn just that little bit more?
I am slightly confused as to what you are referring to?

Do you mean the Han shot Greedo thing. Or are you referring to my image of a dead Han on Endor?
 

Wolfenbarg

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Not sure how I feel about this. Jedi really was the weakest of the films, and something like this could have really brought some gravity to the film and made it a lot stronger, but it could have also made it way too serious and destroyed its beloved status in time.
 

Woodsey

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TimeLord said:
Woodsey said:
Does the fact that he probably pulled the trigger burn just that little bit more?
I am slightly confused as to what you are referring to?

Do you mean the Han shot Greedo thing. Or are you referring to my image of a dead Han on Endor?
Nevermind xD

I meant because Ford dislikes Solo, so he'd have taken his own life.
 

TimeLord

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Woodsey said:
TimeLord said:
Woodsey said:
Does the fact that he probably pulled the trigger burn just that little bit more?
I am slightly confused as to what you are referring to?

Do you mean the Han shot Greedo thing. Or are you referring to my image of a dead Han on Endor?
Nevermind xD

I meant because Ford dislikes Solo, so he'd have taken his own life.
Ahh, that indeed pretty humorous. It's too bad I am half asleep and didn't get that.

My bad :p
 

Logan Westbrook

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I've always thought that stories about Han, Chewie and Lando would be more interesting backstory than that Jedi stuff. After all, those guys are more like you and me. Whereas, Jedi are warrior-wizard, monk-knight police. I think Jedi are more interesting for they're abilities rather than their dichotomous and often prejudice viewpoints. Han, Chewie and Lando have that kind of Space Cowboy thing that would be fun to delve into.

I understand if Harrison Ford doesn't want to play the role now, I mean he's too damn old and wants to do Rom-Coms with Diane "themostboringwomanintheworld" Keaton. That's totally his business. Let him pass the role to a worthy successor. And by worthy, I do not mean SHIA LEBOUF!

I would certainly hope that it would not be necessary for me to go into detail on that last thought.
 

2fish

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My first memory of Star wars is me liking Leia and Luke until we met Han, then I liked Han and Leia because Luke was a little whiney shit and Leia and Han got shit done.

To everyone that wanted to be a Jedi as a kid, you messed up, smuggler and sith is where it is at.

Why does my computer know Jedi but not Sith? My computer must be a fan of the new movies?!! Bad computer Bad!
 

duchaked

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not exactly news from Ford
honestly, I don't think Han's death would've been appropriate. but that's just me

bring on the Lucas bashing...
what's done is done, like it or take a hike
 
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Although I disagree with the merch-driven motives, I have to admit making Han die just to make the film 'gritty' seems like a bad idea to me. The Star Wars trilogy is supposed to be a classic tale of good versus evil, a kind of fairy tale in space. Just killing someone off because its cool seems a little pointless. We already know the Empire is evil, they blew up a peaceful civilised planet in the first film
 
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Wasn't Ford the only actor not to have his career destroyed by the original Star Wars trilogy? Except from the main(I think) Ewok who plays/ed the midget-professor dude in the Harry Potter series and the Lepricorn in the Lepricorn movies. I can't remember his name though.
 

Sniper Team 4

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Tankichi said:
Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
Lando being the only black guy would mean the genocide of the entire black community lol.

OT: I think Hans death would have been pretty awesome.
Agreed. Since Mace died and the X-wing pilot got blown up, that makes Lando the only black man left in the Star Wars universe.

Killing Han is a no-no. If that had happened, all my favorite books would simply not exist. Granted, I think they made his character much more fun and interesting(and dark) than in the movies. Maybe Mr. Ford should read those...
 

RDubayoo

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Okay, and exactly when would Han have died? Pointlessly getting shot outside the bunker? Pointlessly getting shot INSIDE the bunker, maybe after they planted the bombs? Oh, I know, maybe an Ewok would have gotten carried away and put an arrow in his chest. That would be a great ending.
 

bismarck55

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eljawa said:
while this is old news (watch the behind the scenes on the fourth disk of the Star Wars Trilogy Boxset) I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
Agreed. Episode 3 get's too much undeserved hate, just by virtue of being a prequel. The only thing that stands out as awful to me is the Obi-wan vs. Anakin duel.

Personally I rank them, from best to worst:

- V

- IV

- III

- VI

- I

- II
 

theevilsanta

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eljawa said:
while this is old news (watch the behind the scenes on the fourth disk of the Star Wars Trilogy Boxset) I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
Pretty much this. Hollywood never lets anyone die, even if it makes it a better picture. Box office rules.

I hate your avatar though.
 

bak00777

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Harrison Ford, the greatest actor known to man, and animals, and aliens. I cant believe he found Han boring... This saddens me.
 

eljawa

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bismarck55 said:
eljawa said:
while this is old news (watch the behind the scenes on the fourth disk of the Star Wars Trilogy Boxset) I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
Agreed. Episode 3 get's too much undeserved hate, just by virtue of being a prequel. The only thing that stands out as awful to me is the Obi-wan vs. Anakin duel.

Personally I rank them, from best to worst:

- V

- IV

- III

- VI

- I

- II
I always put a new hope as Best, followed by Empire and then the rest is the same as your list. I can live with the Anakin/Obi Wan duel (CGI wasnt very good thougg in that scene) if it werent for those romatic scenes

"Anakin...You're breaking my heart"
(Anakin says something stupider in his rage)

gosh lucas...really?
 

Captain Pancake

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Come to think of it, there was very little tragedy to that film besides

darth vader dying, but he was a bad guy up till this point so it doesnt really count
I think something like that should have happened to make it feel like the final result came at a cost besides a few fighter pilots and unnamed rebel troops.
 

BlindMessiah94

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Nov 12, 2009
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Logan Westbrook said:
Ford was asked why audiences hadn't seen Han Solo in any other movies, to which he replied that he thought that it would be too difficult to work the character back into the canon, and even if someone did up with a way, he didn't find that character particularly interesting.
Missing a few words there?

OT: Doesn't surprise me, $$$ before artistic integrity = profit?
 

fletch_talon

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They sell "frozen in carbonite" Han Solo figures, I don't think it would have been such a stretch to sell a corpse toy.
 

Fetzenfisch

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Well Star Wars is a classic fantasy fairy tale after all. So letting the roguish not-that-bad guy die, just wouldnt work out in the concept.I worshipped the trilogy as many others did. And that not for a reason. Its a story all of us already knew, presented in a new way, that remained unique in its quality and detail.


Plus, letting Solo Die (probably) would have led into no Solo-kids and i liked the jedi-academy novels with Jacen and Jaina.
 

Knight Templar

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While I detest his motivations I don't like the idea of a dark ending for Star Wars, I don't think the movie would be greatly improved by Hans death.
 

Calvar Draveir

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Didn't Ben Kenobi originally die because Alec Guinness was bored of the character?

Yeah...not looking great for your future projects is it George?

But no, Han shouldn't have died. That would have been shit. Seriously. That then leaves Leia doing the whole "Nooooooooooooooooooooo!" bit, which as we've seen, doesn't work.
No, Alec Guinness was AGAINST his character dying, actually.
 

Alon Shechter

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Jesus Phish said:
Although, if Han left the picture, who knows what Luke and his sister wouldve decided to do...
GIGGITY!


Yeah, I actually agree.
Han Solo was a rather boring character trying to be some sort of awesomely awesome thing, and failed.
Star Wars ran out of shiny golden twists on about the time Anakin became Darth Vader.
 

Rednog

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I'm happy Lucas didn't listen to Ford, sure actors can bring a great amount of input into a movie/character and god knows Lucas needed "no" men instead of being surrounded by "yes" men for so many years. But you hear too often how many actors what to take a character in another direction or kill them off. And this more often than not (at least in my memory) doesn't go well most of the time. You see this a lot in TV shows where a character just gets offed in a really lame way because the cast member wants to leave the show. Or a really prominent one like Alan Tudyk asking to kill off Wash (Firefly). I kid you not almost everyone in the theater with me watching Serenity was dumbfounded as to wtf they just witnessed when Wash died in the movie, it was completely out of the blue and storywise a really hard sell in the closing part of the final act.
 

Logan Westbrook

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It would have been cool if they killed Han Solo or Lando in the final battle.
Things worked out fine either way though. I reckon the Fifth movie is the best does anyone agree? it felt so awesome
 

Logan Westbrook

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Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon said:
Wasn't Ford the only actor not to have his career destroyed by the original Star Wars trilogy? Except from the main(I think) Ewok who plays/ed the midget-professor dude in the Harry Potter series and the Lepricorn in the Lepricorn movies. I can't remember his name though.
Warwick Davis.
He was also in Willow. I tink he was also in Phantom Menace in the crowd at the pod race too.

Career destroyed? Dude ever heard of Mark Hamill? His voice acting career is the bomb. He was also in the live action cutscenes from several Wing Commander games (III and IV? or IV and V?). He of course also did the Joker in the batman animated series, and more recently in Arkham Asylum.
 

Logan Westbrook

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Akalabeth said:
Fallen-Angel Risen-Demon said:
Wasn't Ford the only actor not to have his career destroyed by the original Star Wars trilogy? Except from the main(I think) Ewok who plays/ed the midget-professor dude in the Harry Potter series and the Lepricorn in the Lepricorn movies. I can't remember his name though.
Warwick Davis.
He was also in Willow. I tink he was also in Phantom Menace in the crowd at the pod race too.

Career destroyed? Dude ever heard of Mark Hamill? His voice acting career is the bomb. He was also in the live action cutscenes from several Wing Commander games (III and IV? or IV and V?). He of course also did the Joker in the batman animated series, and more recently in Arkham Asylum.
Hamill has done a lot of stage work as well, and Carrie Fisher did some Hollywood acting and wrote novels. Also do you really think James Earl Jones is having a bad career? I sure don't. Also Billy Dee Williams did a lot of stuff post Star Wars, not just selling malt liquor.
 

Death916

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bismarck55 said:
eljawa said:
while this is old news (watch the behind the scenes on the fourth disk of the Star Wars Trilogy Boxset) I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
Agreed. Episode 3 get's too much undeserved hate, just by virtue of being a prequel. The only thing that stands out as awful to me is the Obi-wan vs. Anakin duel.

Personally I rank them, from best to worst:

- V

- IV

- III

- VI

- I

- II
aw come on bro, attack of the clones was tight. easily better then phantom garbage
 

bismarck55

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DeathSnipa1992 said:
bismarck55 said:
eljawa said:
while this is old news (watch the behind the scenes on the fourth disk of the Star Wars Trilogy Boxset) I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
Agreed. Episode 3 get's too much undeserved hate, just by virtue of being a prequel. The only thing that stands out as awful to me is the Obi-wan vs. Anakin duel.

Personally I rank them, from best to worst:

- V

- IV

- III

- VI

- I

- II
aw come on bro, attack of the clones was tight. easily better then phantom garbage
They're both trash, but I find 2 to be even more rotten.
 

Canid117

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?

Fuck test audiences.
 

Logan Westbrook

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Stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking Nerf herders, have no business in a noble death scene.

As much as I love the character, Lucas was right on this one.
 

Parnage

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Ah yes because we all know Harrison Ford is above putting himself in bad films or anything that could ruin is integrity as an actor.
Isn't that right Donut eating cop from Hollywood Homicide?
You too elderly Indiana Jones?
And let's not forget Air Force One.

Sorry Harrison, you don't get to make fun of Lucas's merchandising when you agreed to do a love scene involving pastries. Though I'll admit he's still pretty awesome guy.
 

Logan Westbrook

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The original ending to Return of the Jedi was far more poetic and sombre than what came on screen. In the first versions, that were supposed to be filmed with the same crew as Empire Strikes Back, Han would have died a courageous death, Leia would have stayed behind to start rebuilding the new Federation and Luke would have done the "man with no name" exit and flown off into the unknown in search of others who could use the force, leaving the galaxy in a state of new beginnings and in victory, but in a way far more uncertain and with a sense of pyrrhic victory to it.

Personally, I think this would have been an amazing ending and in tone with some of my favorite films of all time. Even Seven Samurai has this same kind of sense at the finale, something that clearly had influenced Lucas.

But as Kurtz and numerous others have said, if Lucas had had his way as early on as Empire, the entire trilogy would have been different. Lucas hated Empire being so dark and was in many well documented fights with Irvin Kershner, yelling to him that Kershner was ruining his film. By the end, he was far more concerned with selling toys and building his own empire than making the great films.
 

Chewster

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Well, yeah. Star Wars was one of the first series of films where merchandising was more important then artistic integrity. Like many films, it started off small, and then grew big because of the popularity it unintentionally gained. Lucas and the execs saw gigantic dollar signs and here we are today, with a live Han and a piss-poor prequel trilogy. No surprise to me man.

Funny stuff though. In retrospect, Han could have had an amazing heroic death. That would have been something.
 

Sonic Doctor

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JediMB said:
Han dying would have sucked.

He had to stay around long enough to shoot the Emperor in the back, for Pete's sake.
I'm confused, shoot the Emperor in the back? It makes no sense; he shot no Emperor.

------------

Actors will be actors, they will say how they feel. Some things they say can be right, some can be wrong.

If Ford wants to discuss messed up things in movies he has been in, it should about the Indiana Jones movie that as far as I'm concerned, doesn't exist. You all know what one I am talking about, you all don't need to say it here.
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jesus Phish said:
Harrison was always known to dislike the character. And I think he's right, it would've added that little bit more bite to the movie. It didn't really need it, but it would've added it.

Although, if Han left the picture, who knows what Luke and his sister wouldve decided to do...
Nothing, nothing would have happened between Luke and Leia. The idea was that Han would die at the end of the Return of the Jedi. Luke and Leia knew before that that they were siblings, so, nothing would have happened.
 

matrix3509

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I was always under the impression that Ford absolutely despised every single one of his famous roles, from Rick Deckard, to Han Solo, to Indy.
 

JediMB

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Sonic Doctor said:
I'm confused, shoot the Emperor in the back? It makes no sense; he shot no Emperor.
Well, technically I guess he wasn't an emperor anymore, but I assume you're not familiar with Empire's End?

 

electric discordian

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Yeah lets kill off one of the most interesting characters in the franchise, if they had wanted to kill characters for no apparent reason to "add bite" then they should have hired Joss Whedon, the man who started this obsession with butchering half your main characters!

I hate it, what is the point in giving any emotional involvement in a character when they will be killed off by lazy writing! Or a blinding which could have been used to make the character more interesting imbued him with the seers power. Which would have actually been good!

Killing off characters is the equivalent of ending your book with "but it was all a dream!"
 

matrix3509

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Calvar Draveir said:
No, Alec Guinness was AGAINST his character dying, actually.
Not true. There is actually a confirmed case where a small boy who happened to be a Star Wars fan went up to Guinness on the street with a piece of Star Wars merchandise, asking Guinness to sign it. Guinness agreed to give the boy his signature, but only on the condition that the boy would agree to never watch Episode 4 ever again.

Go read Guinness' autobiography A Positively Final Appearance. I have long since stopped believing the shit they spout in those Star Wars Special Edition DVDs, hardly any of it is true. Lucas likes change the story around and outright lie to suit his image. No surprise there right?
 

Sovvolf

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eljawa said:
I always put a new hope as Best, followed by Empire and then the rest is the same as your list. I can live with the Anakin/Obi Wan duel (CGI wasnt very good thougg in that scene) if it werent for those romatic scenes

"Anakin...You're breaking my heart"
(Anakin says something stupider in his rage)

gosh lucas...really?
I disagree, I preferred ROTJ over III. Though not by a large margin. The only reason I prefer ROTJ over III is probably due to the last say half hour of ROTJ. The dog fight and the duel between Vader. Which I think is possibly one of the best Lightsabre duels in the whole series. I am disappointed at ROTJ because it could have been a whole lot better if they took out the whole Ewok thing they had. That really made the film silly and it feels really out of place when your watching the serious issues happening up in the Death Star with Vader, Luke and the Emperor, then the serious dog fight going on only to come back to seeing teddy bears fighting a trained army.
 

Keepitclean

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This explains so much. To me Return of The Jedi always seemed very marketed if you know what I mean.
 

Jesus Phish

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Sonic Doctor said:
Jesus Phish said:
Harrison was always known to dislike the character. And I think he's right, it would've added that little bit more bite to the movie. It didn't really need it, but it would've added it.

Although, if Han left the picture, who knows what Luke and his sister wouldve decided to do...
Nothing, nothing would have happened between Luke and Leia. The idea was that Han would die at the end of the Return of the Jedi. Luke and Leia knew before that that they were siblings, so, nothing would have happened.
My comment was a joke. I'm aware they knew they were siblings, everyone with a brain who watched the movie knew that.
 

Keepitclean

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matrix3509 said:
I have long since stopped believing the shit they spout in those Star Wars Special Edition DVDs, hardly any of it is true. Lucas likes change the story around and outright lie to suit his image. No surprise there right?
It seems that George Lucas is more of a businessman than a film maker. I have heard rumours that back when the films he made were good he was still as egocentric as he is now. The only difference between then and now is that today he has a massive reputation and can sell movie tickets with his name.
 

Logan Westbrook

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
Another reason why test audiences suck, they ruin everything, how is an artist supposed to make thought provoking art if the ignorant masses keep saying that everything has to go through the shit tubes and come out sunny, covered in rainbows and led by butterflies? It's ass, hell, I heard that Dante was supposed to die at the end of Clerks one, I thought "that would have been awesome!" but test audiences hated it. Bunch whiny lily lived jack wagons.
 

chipfizz

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To be honest it would have been cool if had died. It was kind of odd that threw all of this he didn't when you look at some of the stuff that happens to him. Like when he runs into a room full of storm tropers. If even one of them had been a good shot or even able to run as fast as him he should have died but no he got away. The more you look the more he just looks lucky and as such i can see the point even though I loved Han as a charecter. He was funny and was human unlike the others who was always trying to do what was 'right' and being little angels. That did get on my nevers a little from time to time.
 

zombie711

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FungiGamer said:
Covarr said:
I just saw A New Hope for the first time two days ago.....
..........So what was it like growing up on Mars??? :D
I've never seen A new hope or the empire strikes back ( I have seen the prequels 10 times each)
 

MiracleOfSound

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Yureina said:
Han dying would have been a horribly traumatizing experience for me when I was a child. :(
Yeah, it was bad enough having to watch him solidified into a big brick made of poo. If he'd died it would have been too much for the kids.
 

Captain Pancake

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Armitage Shanks said:
Captain Pancake said:
Come to think of it, there was very little tragedy to that film
was that the one Ewok with a name that died. Never noticed that before. Still, my choice of words of "very little" holds an even more prevalent meaning now.
 

Cyan.

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Elesar said:
Well the year before Jedi (1983) Ford was in Blade Runner, where he played one of the most nuanced and interesting characters in cinema. It's understandable that he might have soured on the interesting, but not as deep, Han Solo over that time.

Still Star Wars is nothing but an example of how adversity and mistakes can make something better. Maybe Han staying alive was one of those?

You know Ford hated that character too right?

In fact, he hated the entire movie.

"I played a detective who did no detecting" i believe were his words.
 

wolf92

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SomethingAmazing said:
Yes, because Dead Darth Vader toys sold so poorly.

Lucas, you are an idiot.
Well we all knew that
But still, I'm not sure Han dying would have been a good thing
 

VondeVon

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Truly happy endings are rarer than we think. I wouldn't have loved Star Wars as much as I did, if Han had died. I might not have had the vocab back then to say 'Cheap effort at emotional depth' but I would have felt it.
 

Sonic Doctor

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JediMB said:
Sonic Doctor said:
I'm confused, shoot the Emperor in the back? It makes no sense; he shot no Emperor.
Well, technically I guess he wasn't an emperor anymore, but I assume you're not familiar with Empire's End?

Ah, yes, I am not familiar. I'm actually pretty surprised that the Emperor survived what happen to him in Return of the Jedi. It certainly is a more believable way for him to go, then shot in the back.
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jesus Phish said:
Sonic Doctor said:
Jesus Phish said:
Harrison was always known to dislike the character. And I think he's right, it would've added that little bit more bite to the movie. It didn't really need it, but it would've added it.

Although, if Han left the picture, who knows what Luke and his sister wouldve decided to do...
Nothing, nothing would have happened between Luke and Leia. The idea was that Han would die at the end of the Return of the Jedi. Luke and Leia knew before that that they were siblings, so, nothing would have happened.
My comment was a joke. I'm aware they knew they were siblings, everyone with a brain who watched the movie knew that.
Sorry, since it didn't fit with the plot, I didn't take it seriously that it was a joke. I guess I only find things funny or see them as joke if they fit.
 

JediMB

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Sonic Doctor said:
JediMB said:
Sonic Doctor said:
I'm confused, shoot the Emperor in the back? It makes no sense; he shot no Emperor.
Well, technically I guess he wasn't an emperor anymore, but I assume you're not familiar with Empire's End?

Ah, yes, I am not familiar. I'm actually pretty surprised that the Emperor survived what happen to him in Return of the Jedi. It certainly is a more believable way for him to go, then shot in the back.
Basically he kept himself alive through transferring his consciousness to younger clones of his own body, which we can (now) assume he acquired through technology related to the Clone Wars.

After Dark Empire and Dark Empire II, Palpatine was down to his last clone and planned to use Han and Leia's newborn son as his new body. After some fighting, Han basically shot him in the back just as he was going to do his body-snatching thing.
 

Sonic Doctor

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JediMB said:
Sonic Doctor said:
JediMB said:
Sonic Doctor said:
I'm confused, shoot the Emperor in the back? It makes no sense; he shot no Emperor.
Well, technically I guess he wasn't an emperor anymore, but I assume you're not familiar with Empire's End?

Ah, yes, I am not familiar. I'm actually pretty surprised that the Emperor survived what happen to him in Return of the Jedi. It certainly is a more believable way for him to go, then shot in the back.
Basically he kept himself alive through transferring his consciousness to younger clones of his own body, which we can (now) assume he acquired through technology related to the Clone Wars.

After Dark Empire and Dark Empire II, Palpatine was down to his last clone and planned to use Han and Leia's newborn son as his new body. After some fighting, Han basically shot him in the back just as he was going to do his body-snatching thing.
Interesting, I'm assuming this is partially where Lucas Arts got the story idea for The Force Unleashed 2.

Edit: With the clones.
 

Brett Alex

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Captain Pancake said:
was that the one Ewok with a name that died. Never noticed that before. Still, my choice of words of "very little" holds an even more prevalent meaning now.
Then you sir, have no soul.

Nah, I saw Jedi for the first time when I was like 6, so, that bit where he shakes him and he won't get up hits me like I'm still a kid every time.
 

Captain Pancake

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Armitage Shanks said:
Captain Pancake said:
was that the one Ewok with a name that died. Never noticed that before. Still, my choice of words of "very little" holds an even more prevalent meaning now.
Then you sir, have no soul.

Nah, I saw Jedi for the first time when I was like 6, so, that bit where he shakes him and he won't get up hits me like I'm still a kid every time.
I meant very little cause, you know, the Ewok's very... little.
 

Madara XIII

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kouriichi said:
Nooooooo!!
Han cant die! Then who will make love to Chewbacca in the back of the falcon!?!?

Errr..... i mean...... Yes. He should have died for the story..... and such.....

You are a very very dirty person....*Starts Guzzling Brain Bleach* make the Images go away!!!


But I can imagine the Dialouge. As Frank from Apocalypse lane would have said. "Jesus Christ going down on you is like sucking on a Troll Doll Head ya furry bastard"
 

Beach_Sided

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Imagine what a crazy film 'Return of the Jedi' would have been if Han Solo had of died by being killed and eaten by the Ewoks.
(which would of happened if not for Luke's telekinesis)
 

Signa

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I'm all for killing main characters because no one expects it, but can you imagine how pathetic Han would have been in Jedi had he died? I mean, you are given a teary goodbye from him in the last movie, then they would have thawed him out, then he would still have been blind, then he would have died a short time later. Not fitting for a hero such as Han. If they wanted to kill Han in Jedi, it would have had to been at the hands of Jabba smashing the carbonite in front of everyone, thus never having to actually cast Ford in the third movie. That's the only way it could have worked.
 

maddog015

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Nigh Invulnerable said:
Why is this news? I've heard similar things from Ford on the Special Edition DVDs bonus material, which was released over a decade ago, and it contained ancient interviews.
This.

Old news. Harrison has said in many interviews that he wanted Han to die, but Lucas put the kibosh on it.
 

TylerC

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This is really old news. Originally Han was supposed to die and the "dead Han toys," probably comes from what this article talks about: Link
 

Falseprophet

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
I don't necessarily feel Han or Lando should have died, but the fact the Emperor and the Empire were defeated without the loss of anyone we grew to care about kind of cheapens them as villains. Obi-Wan doesn't really count: he effectively martyred himself, and Yoda died in his sleep. Owen and Beru served to motivate Luke to leave Tatooine, but we didn't really get a chance to like them and they're never brought up again. We get a bit more of Biggs in the extended footage, but he died in Ep. 4. Otherwise, only faceless redshirts die.

If Lando had died, it would have been i) introducing a character halfway through the story solely for the purpose of heroic sacrifice or ii) implying Lando's only chance for redemption for his betrayal of Han and Leia at the end of Ep. V was a heroic sacrifice. Whereas Han dying heroically would have been a complete arc for his character: going from "I look out for one person: me" and "I'm not in it for your revolution", to someone willing to give his life for the people he loves and a cause he believes in.
 

DiMono

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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
I'd argue that's the point: give us fans something to hate in order to make the parts we love that much sweeter. Have the Rebels win despite losing one of their most important members. One of Lucas' strengths is making us feel like it's all a lost cause on every front at once, so I have no doubt he could have written in a glorious death for Han, going out fighting, as the punctuation mark on a totally hopeless cause.

But alas, everyone's in the business of making money, so merchandising trumps plot. I'd definitely be interested in reading the original script though.
 

Logan Westbrook

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eljawa said:
I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
You best do some s'plainin' there, boy. We don't like yer types around dese here parts.

Jokes, I'm actually just interested to why you think this, since it's a long time since I actually discussed something nerdy that I'm interested in. I know you probably have about 20 replies saying something like "HERESY!!", so feel free to ignore yet another.

Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
Yet another reason why fans should be largely ignored.
 

JUMBO PALACE

I'd Rather Be Squatting
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I think we should just leave Star Wars alone and pretend that only 4-6 exist and all of the actors were amazingly happy playing the classic characters we all know :D
 

hermes

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Mar 2, 2009
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Kimarous said:
Yyyyeah, um, Mr. Ford? You do realize that Return of the Jedi was originally going to let Lando Calrissian die in the final battle, but test audiences disliked it so much that they let him live, right? If they were that upset over Lando's potential death, how do you think the fans would feel over your own character's?
That is one of the main problem the franchise has derived into... Test audiences has more weight than any attempt for drama or honest character development (and you can guess which demography those test audiences are selected from).
That is the only way I can understand Boba Fett having a big role in the sequels, or Yoda being in the last game.
 

eljawa

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InterAirplay said:
eljawa said:
I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
You best do some s'plainin' there, boy. We don't like yer types around dese here parts.

Jokes, I'm actually just interested to why you think this, since it's a long time since I actually discussed something nerdy that I'm interested in. I know you probably have about 20 replies saying something like "HERESY!!", so feel free to ignore yet another.

.
So long as Hayden Christenson kept his mouth shut, there were no problems in ROTS. Overall, the feeling of the movie was perfect. It was very dark, but still managed to capture those magic star wars moments. The plot was actually pretty interesting, very logical, and connected the two trilogies.

Return of the Jedi served as a weak ending of the series, and not just because of the ewoks (though they helped to kill the film). I felt like Luke SKywalker in ROTJ was very poorly acted, he had a bad haircut, and i didnt like the way the green lightsaber looked (yeah, nitpicky i know). Yes, the light saber fight in the end was truly awesomeand the ground battle had a few cool moments...

Something about Return of the Jedi felt very cheesy...I guess thats the best way to describe it
 

Double A

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Jul 29, 2009
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So, so far we've had two actors who didn't like their characters and one who was high on set. Next thing we'll hear is that Mark Hamill was considering suicide after playing Luke.
 

Oilerfan92

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Mar 5, 2010
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- Han dies. Typical cliché ending where the cool, cocky and "best friend of main character" (as much as he was for Luke) sacrifices himself for everyone else.

- Han Lives. Cliché ending where the main characters all survive the battle despite the probablity of that being extremely low.

Either way its its own cliché and forseeable ending. Might as well leave him alive.
 

Logan Westbrook

Transform, Roll Out, Etc
Feb 21, 2008
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eljawa said:
InterAirplay said:
eljawa said:
I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
You best do some s'plainin' there, boy. We don't like yer types around dese here parts.

Jokes, I'm actually just interested to why you think this, since it's a long time since I actually discussed something nerdy that I'm interested in. I know you probably have about 20 replies saying something like "HERESY!!", so feel free to ignore yet another.

.
So long as Hayden Christenson kept his mouth shut, there were no problems in ROTS. Overall, the feeling of the movie was perfect. It was very dark, but still managed to capture those magic star wars moments. The plot was actually pretty interesting, very logical, and connected the two trilogies.

Return of the Jedi served as a weak ending of the series, and not just because of the ewoks (though they helped to kill the film). I felt like Luke SKywalker in ROTJ was very poorly acted, he had a bad haircut, and i didnt like the way the green lightsaber looked (yeah, nitpicky i know). Yes, the light saber fight in the end was truly awesomeand the ground battle had a few cool moments...

Something about Return of the Jedi felt very cheesy...I guess thats the best way to describe it
Personally I would say that Star Wars without the cheesy is like... something... without something it needs.... sort of.

Anyways, to each his own. But I felt that Revenge of the Sith was terribly acted, not because of actors not trying but because the fact that they were staring at greenscreen animals and various reference points for CG characters really shows.

Then there's the plot, which I will now take completely out of context and make seem ridiculous - Anakin is getting a bit evil (I'm glad we agree that Christensen needed to go shut up and die in that one, the whiny little *****) but overall it's business as usual - Obi-Wan is running round killing droids with a terrible accent (but I let him off with that for simply being Ewan MacGregor) and there's frequently great big piles of CGI fighting other great big piles of CGI for a bit. Then Anakin is like "MAH WIFE GONNA DIE" and Palpatine is like "Hey Anakin, got some tempting info you might like" and starts turning him into his dark padawan, manipulating his fear for his wife. Meanwhile, on planet Wookie, Yoda is fighting droids, although this ultimately culminates in absolutely nothing whatsoever besdies a cheap cameo. Obi-Wan kills Grevious, but he's an uninteresting villian who only appeared in this installment as if we're supposed to know him and want him to loose, even though Dooku already served that bloody role but was killed of for nothing in terms of driving the plot. Anakin's character shift goes straight into full-on derailment as he starts screaming about being the chosen one and killing children, just so he can learn how to save his wife. The jedi are now all dead, because apparently they found a way to make every single goddamn clone in the universe aware of this one order, but somehow managed to keep it a secret from the jedi (you'd think at least one of the more sympathetyic clones would have said "you guys might want to flee, there's a guillotine hanging over your heads"). Yoda returns, tries to fight Palpatine, and fails, deciding that from here on in the best option when within striking distance of the figurehead of a rising tyrannical regime that will bring decades of fear and darkness to the galaxy is to just run away on the grounds that "I give up, time to cheese it". Rightfully, he goes into Exile because anyone else would have just punched the little fucker in the face for not at least fighting Palpatine to the bitter end. He might as well have said "shit, gotta get out of here in time for Episode IV!". Meanwhile, on Lavaworld, the two jedi go face to face. Hayden strangles his fucking wife who he was in this to save because it turns out Obi-Wan was in her ship. Anakin further shows how Lucas has no clue what he was doing, when in a universe full of fantastical and deadly ways to get killed, he has the main character lie on the edge of a lava lake getting burned (but not burned enough to die) while Obi Wan, contrary to everything we know about his character, decides a mercy killing is not in order and walks away. Then we see Padme giving birth, and this is one of the points that annoyed me most - Luke and Leia are born, then she immediately stops living, going against all we know about Luke and Leia's childhoods. The reason for this? She has lost the will to live. Even if we pretend she wouldn't care about her new kids, this is just retarded.

That big space battle at the start was pretty cool though, I guess.

To put it in a TL:DR version, I think the entire episode consists of murky, poorly explained plot points that were awkwardly contorted in and pulled from nowhere in order to twist the prequel trilogy into a direction where the timeline could meet up with the original trilogy.
 

eljawa

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Nov 20, 2009
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InterAirplay said:
eljawa said:
InterAirplay said:
eljawa said:
I agree, it would have heightened the danger and made return of the jedi a better film, because, and as a star wars nerd this is hard to say, but despite what Randal argues in Clerks, Jedi is the weakest of the original trilogy, by a huge margin. (and weaker than Revenge of the Sith)
You best do some s'plainin' there, boy. We don't like yer types around dese here parts.

Jokes, I'm actually just interested to why you think this, since it's a long time since I actually discussed something nerdy that I'm interested in. I know you probably have about 20 replies saying something like "HERESY!!", so feel free to ignore yet another.

.
So long as Hayden Christenson kept his mouth shut, there were no problems in ROTS. Overall, the feeling of the movie was perfect. It was very dark, but still managed to capture those magic star wars moments. The plot was actually pretty interesting, very logical, and connected the two trilogies.

Return of the Jedi served as a weak ending of the series, and not just because of the ewoks (though they helped to kill the film). I felt like Luke SKywalker in ROTJ was very poorly acted, he had a bad haircut, and i didnt like the way the green lightsaber looked (yeah, nitpicky i know). Yes, the light saber fight in the end was truly awesomeand the ground battle had a few cool moments...

Something about Return of the Jedi felt very cheesy...I guess thats the best way to describe it
Personally I would say that Star Wars without the cheesy is like... something... without something it needs.... sort of.

Anyways, to each his own. But I felt that Revenge of the Sith was terribly acted, not because of actors not trying but because the fact that they were staring at greenscreen animals and various reference points for CG characters really shows.

Then there's the plot, which I will now take completely out of context and make seem ridiculous - Anakin is getting a bit evil (I'm glad we agree that Christensen needed to go shut up and die in that one, the whiny little *****) but overall it's business as usual - Obi-Wan is running round killing droids with a terrible accent (but I let him off with that for simply being Ewan MacGregor) and there's frequently great big piles of CGI fighting other great big piles of CGI for a bit. Then Anakin is like "MAH WIFE GONNA DIE" and Palpatine is like "Hey Anakin, got some tempting info you might like" and starts turning him into his dark padawan, manipulating his fear for his wife. Meanwhile, on planet Wookie, Yoda is fighting droids, although this ultimately culminates in absolutely nothing whatsoever besdies a cheap cameo. Obi-Wan kills Grevious, but he's an uninteresting villian who only appeared in this installment as if we're supposed to know him and want him to loose, even though Dooku already served that bloody role but was killed of for nothing in terms of driving the plot. Anakin's character shift goes straight into full-on derailment as he starts screaming about being the chosen one and killing children, just so he can learn how to save his wife. The jedi are now all dead, because apparently they found a way to make every single goddamn clone in the universe aware of this one order, but somehow managed to keep it a secret from the jedi (you'd think at least one of the more sympathetyic clones would have said "you guys might want to flee, there's a guillotine hanging over your heads"). Yoda returns, tries to fight Palpatine, and fails, deciding that from here on in the best option when within striking distance of the figurehead of a rising tyrannical regime that will bring decades of fear and darkness to the galaxy is to just run away on the grounds that "I give up, time to cheese it". Rightfully, he goes into Exile because anyone else would have just punched the little fucker in the face for not at least fighting Palpatine to the bitter end. He might as well have said "shit, gotta get out of here in time for Episode IV!". Meanwhile, on Lavaworld, the two jedi go face to face. Hayden strangles his fucking wife who he was in this to save because it turns out Obi-Wan was in her ship. Anakin further shows how Lucas has no clue what he was doing, when in a universe full of fantastical and deadly ways to get killed, he has the main character lie on the edge of a lava lake getting burned (but not burned enough to die) while Obi Wan, contrary to everything we know about his character, decides a mercy killing is not in order and walks away. Then we see Padme giving birth, and this is one of the points that annoyed me most - Luke and Leia are born, then she immediately stops living, going against all we know about Luke and Leia's childhoods. The reason for this? She has lost the will to live. Even if we pretend she wouldn't care about her new kids, this is just retarded.

That big space battle at the start was pretty cool though, I guess.

To put it in a TL:DR version, I think the entire episode consists of murky, poorly explained plot points that were awkwardly contorted in and pulled from nowhere in order to twist the prequel trilogy into a direction where the timeline could meet up with the original trilogy.
wow thats a lot.

Though, a lot of the creatures in episode 3 were actually prosthetics and makeup, whenever it could be achieved.

And I personally didnt find 4 or 5 cheesy, but hey


the only thing I can really respond to is the lava part...that was a well established part of star wars lore, It was mentioned in books and such.
 

TaboriHK

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Sep 15, 2008
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I'm all for Lucas bashing when it's warranted but the original trilogy was solid. The films didn't need a darker conclusion to make it better, it stands as a classic as it is.
 

Chefodeath

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Dec 31, 2009
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TaboriHK said:
I'm all for Lucas bashing when it's warranted but the original trilogy was solid. The films didn't need a darker conclusion to make it better, it stands as a classic as it is.
Agreed. For Return of the Jedi, I was expecting a big sappy happy ending and an utter release of dramatic tension. Even if Lucas's interests were less than ideal, and would go on to create products less than ideal, the original trilogy stands classic.
 

Baron von Awesome

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Jun 9, 2010
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Yeah you can really see the dollar signs in Lucas' eyes when you meet the Ewoks. I'm not against the idea of a primitive society helping bring down the generator, but I'd rather see a more realistic society rather than a society of cute teddy bears bringing down armored Stormtroopers with sticks. I mean we know that the only realistic thing that would happen after an army of semi-intelligent teddy bears attack one of the most hardened and elite military forces in the universe would be a slaughter. Which... I wouldn't have been against either if the Ewoks sacrificed themselves in mass numbers to give the rebels time to bring down the shield generator.... I dunno, there were a lot of better ways to do the whole thing. It felt kinda like Lucas was jangling keys in front of us to keep the young children entertained. I suppose a teddy bear massacre probably wouldn't have sold a lot of toys though...
 

floppylobster

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Oct 22, 2008
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Han should have died at the end of Empire. Bringing him back in Jedi then killing him at the end would have been unsatisfying.

If all the characters had the idea of taking revenge for Hans death in the back of their mind's it would have made Jedi a morally complex and interesting film. A difficult path for Luke trying to be righteous but wanting vengeance for the death of his friend while trying to confront his father. Also an interesting comparison could be drawn between Obi-Wan - his other father figure - who can have his presence felt through the force and Han who would be gone forever.

I'm okay with how it is but I always felt Han was really flat in Jedi.
 

[zonking great]

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Popido said:
Would have been great. Han dies and Chewbacca goes berserk from witnessing this. And then just leave Chewbacca's fate open-ended.
I like it. Imagine a wookiee's slaver for life (strange how they hate the Trandoshans for enslaving them but voluntarily embark in slavery if they owe them a life debt) die. I can imagine that must lead to guilt and self pity. And of course uncompromising anger.
 

Verlander

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Would have made more sense when in RTOJ, he said "I feel like I'm never gonna see her again" about the Millennium Falcon. Still, as others have pointed out, that was probably more to do with Lando dying than Han
 

Ghengis John

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If you don't understand why Han shouldn't have died maybe you need to listen to Samwise's speech from the end of the second Lord of the Rings there, Harrison.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlyEwcplCD4

It's not really just about the toys. People probably wouldn't treasure the movie as much if it hadn't played out the way it did.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Nov 19, 2009
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and this is why George Lucas is now a HACK. God I hope he doesn't live long enough to see the sequel trilogy imagined. I know that's a horrible thing to say, but the guy SUCKS as a writer AND a director now.
 

DarkPanda XIII

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Nov 3, 2009
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Interesting, didn't know that the series was going to have a lot of character deaths o.o...

Not surprising for George Lucas to stop the death ideas due to merchandise, though...
 

Warped_Ghost

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Sep 26, 2009
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Well Boba died and that made him the biggest baddass in the series. In han would have died that would have been awesome.
 

ZephrC

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You know what? Return of the Jedi was always my favorite movie out of the original trilogy. I like happy endings. If I wanted fucked up it's complicated endings, I wouldn't be watching a fucking space opera, dammit. I'd be watching some moody period piece or some other such pretentious nonsense.

Honestly, I can see how sometimes a character death can make a story better, but I absolutely disagree with there being anything to gain from Han's death. It would have added nothing but pointless tragedy to a movie that didn't need it. It would have been the kind of stupid death that makes a movie worse, not better. I don't care what sort of voodoo reasoning it took for George Lucas to make a good decision, in my mind he clearly did in that case.
 

efeat

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Sep 22, 2010
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Jesus Phish said:
Although, if Han left the picture, who knows what Luke and his sister wouldve decided to do...
They would've found love in Alderaan places.
 

Calvar Draveir

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Feb 10, 2010
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matrix3509 said:
Calvar Draveir said:
No, Alec Guinness was AGAINST his character dying, actually.
Not true. There is actually a confirmed case where a small boy who happened to be a Star Wars fan went up to Guinness on the street with a piece of Star Wars merchandise, asking Guinness to sign it. Guinness agreed to give the boy his signature, but only on the condition that the boy would agree to never watch Episode 4 ever again.

Go read Guinness' autobiography A Positively Final Appearance. I have long since stopped believing the shit they spout in those Star Wars Special Edition DVDs, hardly any of it is true. Lucas likes change the story around and outright lie to suit his image. No surprise there right?
So yeah, I don't see how what you said conflicts. He was angry because the movie didn't turn out how he wanted, right? and Obi living is the opposite of how it turned out. If Lucas was making it up to make himself look good he would have said Alec Guinness liked the idea, right?