Hard Reset Gameplay Trailer Debuts

[GeorgW]

Ok, now you've insulted me.

No I haven't. I have criticised you.

When the hell did I say that I wanted it dumbed down or that I didn't like PC gaming or that I for that matter doesn't play PC games.

Bulletstorm. That's what I mean by games going to consoles.

I play games on my laptop, it's got 7GB RAM with 1 GB dedicated to graphics.

Precisely what graphics card do you have? That sound like a very high-spec machine and most 1GB graphics cards are pretty powerful... could definitely play a game like this at better settings than on console. See console run games are REALLY low settings but somehow people accept that because it's got the giant Xbox logo everyone's rose tinted-glasses have 640p look like 1080p.

See, you have got to be smart about this, you can't just use the default settings or set everything to high and expect it to run perfectly. It is a simple little thing to adjust the settings for the right frame-rate.

all I use my PC for is play indie and old games, you see, I have my consoles for new games.

I like not having to plug in my PC into my big TV every time, I like never having to optimize or download patches day one, I like the controls and not having to customize them every single time cuz they all assume I have an english qwerty keyboard (with the exception of the wii), I like having a big community to play with online, I like not having to find servers with the least few hundred pings since I don't have access to a high speed internet connection where I live

-it's better to play ANY game on a smaller monitor at closer distance. Big monitor far away (same apparent size) is an extravagance only good for multiple viewers like couch co-op
-Steam auto-downloads patches, and consoles are the same with day-one patches or worse: no patches at all. It's also easy to keep updated with firmware updates, all you have to do is TRY!
-Customisation is bad? Oh what a horrible platform that lets me chose the best control layout(/sarc) It's 5 minutes for a significantly better game. It's far worse to struggle through a game with a fixed arbitrary control layout that isn't suitable.
-PC has no shortage of online community, I can always find full servers. And what would you know you only play new games on console.
-if you have bad internet for dedicated servers it will be DIABOLICAL for peer-to-peer online that console uses. The difference is that console games hide how bad it is but cause glitches. Again, what would you know.

This are a load of irrationally trivial excuses. And they are in no way balanced against the benefits of PC gaming. You aren't making a decision, you're gut has decided and now you are trying to rationalise.

but most of all, I like the exclusives. Maybe the only reason I have a wii, 360 and PS3 (and PSP and DS for that matter) is because I want to play all their exclusives, maybe I think since I already have all of those I don't need to pay yet another $400 for a gaming PC when the only PC exclusive that really interest me is Civ, and since it's turned based and I don't have to worry about lag, so I can still play that. Maybe you didn't consider that cuz you were busy branding me as some sort of moron just cuz I have different preferences than you when it comes to how I play games.

Really? You invested in FIVE different systems but not PC?

And you bought a 360 for exclusives... all 5 of them?

"Too bad that it's exclusive PC, otherwise I'd have been interested."

No, you're just like the fanboys who moan about another game coming out on Wii with "aww, why can't this game be on 360, I'm not getting a Wii for just one game" only they say it for so many games yet on each point "huughh, I'm only interested in like one exclusive, hmph!". Also failing to consider how the PC version is almost always the superior version. Black Ops is actually enjoyable on PC thanks to dedicated servers cutting out lag-compensation glitches.

I can see through this paper thin façade, YOU said you were interested in this game! You are just prejudiced against the platform.

Ok, so I pulled the 2500 number out of my ass
...
So, stop assuming that just cuz I haven't looked into how cheaply I can find a good computer that means I'm some sort of idiot that doesn't know how great 'the glorious PC master race' is, but maybe it's because I'm just not fucking interested. And also, this game looks boring as shit, and I wouldn't be playing it regardless.

Too bad that it's exclusive PC, otherwise I'd have been interested.

I think that I am right on the money with you.

Do not underestimate the power of brand marketing. How much superficial and irrational product placement and favourable presentation can make Xbox and PS3 seem way better than they actually are.
Example: you put coca cola in two bottles: one with the coca cola label and the other with a generic cola label. 9/10 taste testers will find the branded Coca Cola SIGNIFICANTLY better. And this is not just with drinks: it is with cars, operating systems, cookers, you name it. People who think they know cars swear blind that a car drives better even though all they did was stick a BMW badge on the wheel.

PC gaming doesn't have a billion dollar marketing department.

Once again I feel insulted that you think I think higher of console gaming than PC gaming. It's the complete opposite, I just prefer to play some games on console. I recognize that PC gaming is better, I just don't want it. What is so wrong with having a different opinion than you and why can't you respect that?
Let's use your black ops example, I've played Black ops on both my laptop and my 360 (Omg, another huge surprise cuz you judged me from the first, admittedly wrong and I've already apologized for that, sentence I typed). I have 200 times as much ping on my laptop, and yes, I played on the server with the least lag that I could find. Only problem is that that server was in Germany and had 2000 ms ping. You see, less people play black ops on PC, and when you don't live in America, that's a problem. On the consoles I can always find someone in my country, which reduces lag significantly. For online games, ping is the most important for me when choosing which system to play it on, and I don't play multiplayer games on PC because of that. Also, all of my friends play on consoles, and guess what, I like my friends and want to play with them. I'm sure that's different for you, but that's the way my experience has been and it's turned me off multiplayer PC games completely.

Now, let's see some of your other points... I hated bulletstorm and loved painkiller. What about my posts made you think otherwise?
I have a Toshiba Satellite A660-1GC if you feel like checking out the specs, and I can play most games well if I tamper with the settings. However, as I said I refuse to play multiplayer games on my PC. As for single player games, for most I really don't see the difference. I don't count pixels or framerate, I just want to have fun when I play games. Sometimes I just prefer to play on my big screen TV on my couch. That may not be your thing, but I like it and you'll just have to accept that.

What I meant with day one patches was for my own software, not the game itself. Some games simply won't play on a computer without some serious fixes before. To give an example, to be able to play Magicka I had to go on the steam support forums for about an hour to find out what the problem was since I didn't get an error report, and then finally find out that my graphics card had locked it out and I had to manually force it to render it. If you want to take the time to fix that, fine, but sometimes I just want to sit down and play a new game as soon as I can and that bug pissed me off. Once again, we're just different there, and you don't have the right to say that your way is better.

I agree with you that customisation is the best tool that a game can have (that's why I have oblivion and other games like it for the PC), but to once again use magicka as an example I didn't realize until I started playing the game that some vital commands were routed to keys that my keyboard simply doesn't have (that's what I meant by assuming I have english qwerty). I couldn't continue and couldn't save until after the tutorial, and therefore had to replay the entire tutorial. Once again, may not be a big problem for you (if you're american you've probably never even known this was an issue) but it kinda turned me off the game when the first two hours I had the game was so annoying.

Okay, so you've got me, I have prejudices against the platform. But, I still stand by them, cuz my experiences are what's created them. I'm sure you had different ones, and that's great for you. You've embraced the superior platform, I've said from the beginning that that's what PC is, but I'm willing to accept my consoles' faults cuz I prefer it that way. Maybe we're just different that way.

 

[dryg]

Let's use your black ops example, I've played Black ops on both my laptop and my 360 (Omg, another huge surprise cuz you judged me from the first, admittedly wrong and I've already apologized for that, sentence I typed). I have 200 times as much ping on my laptop, and yes, I played on the server with the least lag that I could find. Only problem is that that server was in Germany and had 2000 ms ping. You see, less people play black ops on PC, and when you don't live in America, that's a problem. On the consoles I can always find someone in my country, which reduces lag significantly. For online games, ping is the most important for me when choosing which system to play it on, and I don't play multiplayer games on PC because of that. Also, all of my friends play on consoles, and guess what, I like my friends and want to play with them. I'm sure that's different for you, but that's the way my experience has been and it's turned me off multiplayer PC games completely.

Whaat, Sweden got one of the largest PC Gaming communities. There are hundreds of Swedish BlOps servers. I live in the far north and have never seen a Swedish server with 100ping or more.

I do have a xbox too, when playing with people from my town it's usually way worse than this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plzHrMZmcVE].

 

[GeorgW]

Let's use your black ops example, I've played Black ops on both my laptop and my 360 (Omg, another huge surprise cuz you judged me from the first, admittedly wrong and I've already apologized for that, sentence I typed). I have 200 times as much ping on my laptop, and yes, I played on the server with the least lag that I could find. Only problem is that that server was in Germany and had 2000 ms ping. You see, less people play black ops on PC, and when you don't live in America, that's a problem. On the consoles I can always find someone in my country, which reduces lag significantly. For online games, ping is the most important for me when choosing which system to play it on, and I don't play multiplayer games on PC because of that. Also, all of my friends play on consoles, and guess what, I like my friends and want to play with them. I'm sure that's different for you, but that's the way my experience has been and it's turned me off multiplayer PC games completely.

Whaat, Sweden got one of the largest PC Gaming communities. There are hundreds of Swedish BlOps servers. I live in the far north and have never seen a Swedish server with 100ping or more.

I do have a xbox too, when playing with people from my town it's usually way worse than this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plzHrMZmcVE].

Huh, that's weird. Maybe it was just a bad day for the game... Or my internet is just that bad

 

[Treblaine]

Once again I feel insulted that you think I think higher of console gaming than PC gaming. It's the complete opposite, I just prefer to play some games on console. I recognize that PC gaming is better, I just don't want it. What is so wrong with having a different opinion than you and why can't you respect that?
Let's use your black ops example, I've played Black ops on both my laptop and my 360 (Omg, another huge surprise cuz you judged me from the first, admittedly wrong and I've already apologized for that, sentence I typed). I have 200 times as much ping on my laptop, and yes, I played on the server with the least lag that I could find. Only problem is that that server was in Germany and had 2000 ms ping.

I do not believe you. Either you are mistaken or making a gross exaggeration... again.

200x worse means that you are getting a ping of only 10 Milliseconds on 360! That is ridiculously low and on 360 it doesn't even tell you if you have 100ms or 1ms, it just has that useless mobile-phone bar thing.

In fact you could only do that if you were the host which is a complete cheat as everyone else who connects TO YOU will have a massive ping! What kind of ping do you get when you are not the host?

You claim you cannot find a single Black Ops server in all of Scandinavia? Closest one is in Germany? I actually know for a fact that there are Black Ops servers in Sweden:

http://www.gametracker.com/search/blackops/SE/

You see, less people play black ops on PC, and when you don't live in America, that's a problem. On the consoles I can always find someone in my country, which reduces lag significantly. For online games, ping is the most important for me when choosing which system to play it on, and I don't play multiplayer games on PC because of that. Also, all of my friends play on consoles, and guess what, I like my friends and want to play with them. I'm sure that's different for you, but that's the way my experience has been and it's turned me off multiplayer PC games completely.

Ah, the self-fulfilling prophecy of "my friends play on console so I play on console"

That guarantees that whoever has market share now will NEVER lose it. Imagine if people did that with all things, they wouldn't use something if most of the people they knew also used it, nothing would ever improve.

Now, let's see some of your other points... I hated bulletstorm and loved painkiller. What about my posts made you think otherwise?

Surely you realise how badly the developers went after getting sucked into the console development machine. Those market forces destroy great games trying to be like the few big sellers and failing badly.

I have a Toshiba Satellite A660-1GC if you feel like checking out the specs, and I can play most games well if I tamper with the settings.

You don't know your own specs? By the way the graphics card you have outperforms the xbox 360.

The problem I think is you are tricked by consoles into believing they run games as well as PC does. The reality is games like Halo 3 are a measly 640p resolution and struggle to maintain 30fps and with no anti-aliasing.

As for single player games, for most I really don't see the difference. I don't count pixels or framerate, I just want to have fun when I play games.

Well, you should. You don't have to be able to count the pixels to be impacted by lower resolution. Same with frame-rate, the difference between 30 and 60fps will affect how much fun you have even if you can't tell just by looking at it. That's for how the brain processes vision feedback.

Sometimes I just prefer to play on my big screen TV on my couch. That may not be your thing, but I like it and you'll just have to accept that.

Do you like that because of a genuine preference or because of the endless product placement selling the "console way" as the way to play games.

HDTV has so many disadvantages:
-added cost and power consumption
-occupies so much space
-denies a TV for group/social use for an individual's game
-TV speakers much harder to track sound than with Monitor + headset
-HDTVs consistently have worse input lag than Monitors, to quite a severe extent
-inflexible resolution support
-must be viewed from a distance where it is harder to focus on detail for that pixel-perfect precision

The problem I think for you is you are comparing a laptop screen with a HDTV. A big 24-inch monitor with 1080p resolution I can actually make use of that high resolution.

What I meant with day one patches was for my own software, not the game itself. Some games simply won't play on a computer without some serious fixes before. To give an example, to be able to play Magicka I had to go on the steam support forums for about an hour to find out what the problem was since I didn't get an error report, and then finally find out that my graphics card had locked it out and I had to manually force it to render it. If you want to take the time to fix that, fine, but sometimes I just want to sit down and play a new game as soon as I can and that bug pissed me off. Once again, we're just different there, and you don't have the right to say that your way is better.

Well a game like Magicka is on PC and not on XBL for a reason. The console system chews up talented developers and whores them out. Plus the simple fact that the game they are trying to make couldn't even be made on console for the restrictions of the platform.

LEARN FROM BULLETSTORM!

I agree with you that customisation is the best tool that a game can have (that's why I have oblivion and other games like it for the PC), but to once again use magicka as an example I didn't realize until I started playing the game that some vital commands were routed to keys that my keyboard simply doesn't have (that's what I meant by assuming I have english qwerty). I couldn't continue and couldn't save until after the tutorial, and therefore had to replay the entire tutorial. Once again, may not be a big problem for you (if you're american you've probably never even known this was an issue) but it kinda turned me off the game when the first two hours I had the game was so annoying.

It's a bit rich you implying American Hegemony when Magicka is a game entirely developed by Swedes in Sweden - your native land. You English is excellent by the way, why don't you have a Qwerty keyboard?

This game is an extreme example, it was a very small developer's very first game and it had a bad launch, it has been quite well patched now.

I'd much rather have a great game on PC that has teething problems (that ear easily fixed)...

... than mediocre trash on console that runs reliably but with design elements that are unfixable.

 

[mcx]

Oh look another crap FPS, but since it's only on PC it haz too be gud rite? xD

 

[GeorgW]

Once again I feel insulted that you think I think higher of console gaming than PC gaming. It's the complete opposite, I just prefer to play some games on console. I recognize that PC gaming is better, I just don't want it. What is so wrong with having a different opinion than you and why can't you respect that?
Let's use your black ops example, I've played Black ops on both my laptop and my 360 (Omg, another huge surprise cuz you judged me from the first, admittedly wrong and I've already apologized for that, sentence I typed). I have 200 times as much ping on my laptop, and yes, I played on the server with the least lag that I could find. Only problem is that that server was in Germany and had 2000 ms ping.

I do not believe you. Either you are mistaken or making a gross exaggeration... again.

200x worse means that you are getting a ping of only 10 Milliseconds on 360! That is ridiculously low and on 360 it doesn't even tell you if you have 100ms or 1ms, it just has that useless mobile-phone bar thing.

In fact you could only do that if you were the host which is a complete cheat as everyone else who connects TO YOU will have a massive ping! What kind of ping do you get when you are not the host?

You claim you cannot find a single Black Ops server in all of Scandinavia? Closest one is in Germany? I actually know for a fact that there are Black Ops servers in Sweden:

http://www.gametracker.com/search/blackops/SE/

You see, less people play black ops on PC, and when you don't live in America, that's a problem. On the consoles I can always find someone in my country, which reduces lag significantly. For online games, ping is the most important for me when choosing which system to play it on, and I don't play multiplayer games on PC because of that. Also, all of my friends play on consoles, and guess what, I like my friends and want to play with them. I'm sure that's different for you, but that's the way my experience has been and it's turned me off multiplayer PC games completely.

Ah, the self-fulfilling prophecy of "my friends play on console so I play on console"

That guarantees that whoever has market share now will NEVER lose it. Imagine if people did that with all things, they wouldn't use something if most of the people they knew also used it, nothing would ever improve.

Now, let's see some of your other points... I hated bulletstorm and loved painkiller. What about my posts made you think otherwise?

Surely you realise how badly the developers went after getting sucked into the console development machine. Those market forces destroy great games trying to be like the few big sellers and failing badly.

I have a Toshiba Satellite A660-1GC if you feel like checking out the specs, and I can play most games well if I tamper with the settings.

You don't know your own specs? By the way the graphics card you have outperforms the xbox 360.

The problem I think is you are tricked by consoles into believing they run games as well as PC does. The reality is games like Halo 3 are a measly 640p resolution and struggle to maintain 30fps and with no anti-aliasing.

As for single player games, for most I really don't see the difference. I don't count pixels or framerate, I just want to have fun when I play games.

Well, you should. You don't have to be able to count the pixels to be impacted by lower resolution. Same with frame-rate, the difference between 30 and 60fps will affect how much fun you have even if you can't tell just by looking at it. That's for how the brain processes vision feedback.

Sometimes I just prefer to play on my big screen TV on my couch. That may not be your thing, but I like it and you'll just have to accept that.

Do you like that because of a genuine preference or because of the endless product placement selling the "console way" as the way to play games.

HDTV has so many disadvantages:
-added cost and power consumption
-occupies so much space
-denies a TV for group/social use for an individual's game
-TV speakers much harder to track sound than with Monitor + headset
-HDTVs consistently have worse input lag than Monitors, to quite a severe extent
-inflexible resolution support
-must be viewed from a distance where it is harder to focus on detail for that pixel-perfect precision

The problem I think for you is you are comparing a laptop screen with a HDTV. A big 24-inch monitor with 1080p resolution I can actually make use of that high resolution.

What I meant with day one patches was for my own software, not the game itself. Some games simply won't play on a computer without some serious fixes before. To give an example, to be able to play Magicka I had to go on the steam support forums for about an hour to find out what the problem was since I didn't get an error report, and then finally find out that my graphics card had locked it out and I had to manually force it to render it. If you want to take the time to fix that, fine, but sometimes I just want to sit down and play a new game as soon as I can and that bug pissed me off. Once again, we're just different there, and you don't have the right to say that your way is better.

Well a game like Magicka is on PC and not on XBL for a reason. The console system chews up talented developers and whores them out. Plus the simple fact that the game they are trying to make couldn't even be made on console for the restrictions of the platform.

LEARN FROM BULLETSTORM!

I agree with you that customisation is the best tool that a game can have (that's why I have oblivion and other games like it for the PC), but to once again use magicka as an example I didn't realize until I started playing the game that some vital commands were routed to keys that my keyboard simply doesn't have (that's what I meant by assuming I have english qwerty). I couldn't continue and couldn't save until after the tutorial, and therefore had to replay the entire tutorial. Once again, may not be a big problem for you (if you're american you've probably never even known this was an issue) but it kinda turned me off the game when the first two hours I had the game was so annoying.

It's a bit rich you implying American Hegemony when Magicka is a game entirely developed by Swedes in Sweden - your native land. You English is excellent by the way, why don't you have a Qwerty keyboard?

This game is an extreme example, it was a very small developer's very first game and it had a bad launch, it has been quite well patched now.

I'd much rather have a great game on PC that has teething problems (that ear easily fixed)...

... than mediocre trash on console that runs reliably but with design elements that are unfixable.

Sorry for a late response, I was out eating.

The 2000 ping story is completely true, I'm not exaggerating, and I have trouble believing it myself. As for the ping I have on consoles, it's true I don't really know exactly how much I have but I tend to have extremely low compared to friends and I never even notice lag, so I assume I have around 20ms. Yes, it's an estimate, but it's definitely nowhere near 2 damn seconds.

And I know my own specs, what makes you think I don't?? I just figured it was more efficient to give you the name so you could check it out for yourself, just in case you had further questions.

I hate consolisation as much as you do, and I truly respect PC only and PC first developers. I dislike what they did to people can fly and hope this game will redeem the people respectable enough to risk jump ship to protect their integrity.

The reason I bought this computer was so that I could still play innovative indie PC games like Magicka and the about 80 other I got on the steam sale. But I still refuse to play certain new big name PC games because of bullshit DRM, poor ping for multiplayer and framerate issues.

I love Swedish games and tend to buy them just to support the industry (I have Amnesia even though I've never booted it, too scared ) and Magicka is a great game made by Swedes. That doesn't change the fact that they've routed button commands to buttons that don't exist on a Swedish keyboard.

As for all the rest, we'll simply have to agree to disagree. I think my friends are more important than the platform I play on, I don't care if I have the best resolution, I don't want to bother with DRM when my internet connection is prone to go out sporadically, and I genuinely like playing on my TV and still being able to chat with friends on msn and checking if there are any new news stories here on the Escapist on my laptop. My girlfriend tends to dislike when I'm playing on my laptop and don't see that she's trying to tell me something on msn. It's the little things that make me prefer consoles.

 

[Thyunda]

...Except that I have a laptop. So that $60 just became $2500. So, yeah...

Daaaauuu... huh?

I've just shown you two graphics cards - the single most expensive component - that cost less than $80. Now you're pulling this $2'500 figure out of the air?

I think they were trying to say that they have to buy a whole new machine to play the game. You can't just switch out graphics cards on a laptop.

Did I not give an example of a capable gaming PC that costs less than $400, actually around $375?

The $2'500 figure is pure "weasel words" to denigrate PC gaming.

Or it was a deliberate exaggeration to basically say, "I have a perfectly good notebook. Why would I spend money on a new one just to play one game?"

 

[Treblaine]

...Except that I have a laptop. So that $60 just became $2500. So, yeah...

Daaaauuu... huh?

I've just shown you two graphics cards - the single most expensive component - that cost less than $80. Now you're pulling this $2'500 figure out of the air?

I think they were trying to say that they have to buy a whole new machine to play the game. You can't just switch out graphics cards on a laptop.

Did I not give an example of a capable gaming PC that costs less than $400, actually around $375?

The $2'500 figure is pure "weasel words" to denigrate PC gaming.

Or it was a deliberate exaggeration to basically say, "I have a perfectly good notebook. Why would I spend money on a new one just to play one game?"

It's a logical fallacy to say "why would I get this platform for just this single game" as you could apply that to EVERY games platform that there has ever been.

because it it is said over and over again dismissing every game they come across failing to assess them all as a whole. I remember people saying the same thing about the Wii and PS3. Remember the "PS3 has no gaemz" meme?

For years people would dismiss each title one by one:

"Sure Uncharted looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Resistance FOM looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure MGS4 looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure LittleBigPlanet looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Infamous looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Killzone 2 looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"

People do the same with PC:

"Sure Crysis looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Team Fortress 2 looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Killing Floor looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure STALKER looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Amnesia looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Dawn of War looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"

and so on.

The fallacy is simple: "if it's not worth it for many small parts, even if they add up to a large part that is worth it"

 

[Thyunda]

...Except that I have a laptop. So that $60 just became $2500. So, yeah...

Daaaauuu... huh?

I've just shown you two graphics cards - the single most expensive component - that cost less than $80. Now you're pulling this $2'500 figure out of the air?

I think they were trying to say that they have to buy a whole new machine to play the game. You can't just switch out graphics cards on a laptop.

Did I not give an example of a capable gaming PC that costs less than $400, actually around $375?

The $2'500 figure is pure "weasel words" to denigrate PC gaming.

Or it was a deliberate exaggeration to basically say, "I have a perfectly good notebook. Why would I spend money on a new one just to play one game?"

It's a logical fallacy to say "why would I get this platform for just this single game" as you could apply that to EVERY games platform that there has ever been.

because it it is said over and over again dismissing every game they come across failing to assess them all as a whole. I remember people saying the same thing about the Wii and PS3. Remember the "PS3 has no gaemz" meme?

For years people would dismiss each title one by one:

"Sure Uncharted looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Resistance FOM looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure MGS4 looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure LittleBigPlanet looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Infamous looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Killzone 2 looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"

People do the same with PC:

"Sure Crysis looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Team Fortress 2 looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Killing Floor looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure STALKER looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Amnesia looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Dawn of War looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"

and so on.

The fallacy is simple: "if it's not worth it for many small parts, even if they add up to a large part that is worth it"

Well, I don't have a gaming computer. I have a console. Sure, Hard Reset looks good, but there's an equally good game on console. I might as well just spend £50 on a console game, rather than however much it's gonna cost me to buy a gaming rig, plus the hassle of installing it into my cramped apartment, and then replacing the graphics card everytime developers get sick of it.

 

[Racecarlock]

Guys, don't try to drag out arguments with treblaine. I have tried to explain to him that I just prefer console gamepads over mouses, but he seems to think I just haven't been "Enlightened" yet and preaches down to me like he's some kind of minister. You can't argue with this guy, just try to ignore him.

 

[Treblaine]

It's a logical fallacy to say "why would I get this platform for just this single game" as you could apply that to EVERY games platform that there has ever been.

because it it is said over and over again dismissing every game they come across failing to assess them all as a whole. I remember people saying the same thing about the Wii and PS3. Remember the "PS3 has no gaemz" meme?

For years people would dismiss each title one by one:

"Sure Uncharted looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Resistance FOM looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure MGS4 looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure LittleBigPlanet looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Infamous looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"
"Sure Killzone 2 looks good, but I ain't getting a PS3 just for one game"

People do the same with PC:

"Sure Crysis looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Team Fortress 2 looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Killing Floor looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure STALKER looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Amnesia looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"
"Sure Dawn of War looks good, but I'm not going for a Gaming PC for just one game"

and so on.

The fallacy is simple: "if it's not worth it for many small parts, even if they add up to a large part that is worth it"

Well, I don't have a gaming computer. I have a console. Sure, Hard Reset looks good, but there's an equally good game on console. I might as well just spend £50 on a console game, rather than however much it's gonna cost me to buy a gaming rig, plus the hassle of installing it into my cramped apartment, and then replacing the graphics card everytime developers get sick of it.

Have you read my post? It's like you are giving a perfect example of the fallacy I have just demonstrated to you:

"Sure, Hard Reset looks good, but..."

Excuses. And terrible excuses at that, that's it's always better to stay in the expensive and restrictive console market than try to break out.

£50 may be typical for new console games but about 2-3x as much as a PC game like this would cost, as similar indie games like Red Orchestra 2 is only £22.49 and E.Y.E: Divine Cybermancy only £13.49 on Steam.

Considering 360's attach rate is around 9.0, the average person will spend £450 on console games! How many of those games could have been bought on PC with how much saving?

And then you say you haven't got enough space. Not enough space? Really? Your apartment is so small that a desktop PC case just would not fit yet a 360/PS3 would slide in snug? Do you live in an apartment or a plane's overhead luggage compartment?

I've found PC gaming much more suited to cramped spaces as PC games are designed to be played at a desk, within 2 feet of a monitor.

"then replacing the graphics card everytime developers get sick of it"

More weasel words.

This is an outrageous fallacy for how often it is repeated and how brutally effective it is in denigrating the platform, actually insulting it for being progressive.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO UPGRADE SO OFTEN! Not even every 2 or 3 years.

Hell, the Geforce 8800GT was a mid level card released way back in 2007, it can play Metro 2033 looking this damn good:

 

[Treblaine]

Guys, don't try to drag out arguments with treblaine. I have tried to explain to him that I just prefer console gamepads over mouses, but he seems to think I just haven't been "Enlightened" yet and preaches down to me like he's some kind of minister. You can't argue with this guy, just try to ignore him.

Yeah, nice weasel words there. Paint me as some kind of Religious evangelist as I try to defend PC gaming from the tidal wave of consolisation. It's latest victim being People Can Fly and their bastard child Bulletstorm; textbook example of consolisation screwing the pooch.

You can argue with me, you just can't seem to win. And you can't accept it when I blow your arguments out of the water, you act like I'm somehow being hard-headed.

Though I am quite fed up dealing with your fallacies and circular logic; Like how you prefer consoles simple because you prefer consoles. You aren't able to say why you like gamepad more other than familiarity, which you could argue just as strongly for any input device, including Mouse + keyboard.

All you have to do is give a reason. An explanation, an example, an elucidation, a clarification - just tell us WHAT IT IS you prefer about a controller that is objectively WORSE at its job in so many ways!?!? I'm pretty sure I've brought this up before, how mouse is nigh on the PERFECT pointing device in every practical test.

But I see where you are coming from. Consoles offer something that PC cannot: Branding.

See it's more than just a gaming machine, it's a Brand. It's Xbox. It's Playstation. It's Nintendo!




TV ad telling people how great it is to own a Gaming PC: does not exist

PC gaming may be personalised, completely under your control and to your needs but corporations globally don't spend Billions of dollars on marketing if it didn't work.

This is the potent power of marketing, it can literally get people whipped up into a religious fervour about heavily marketed products.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/05/19/apple.religion/

Now who is the evangelist? I think your hostile characterisation is rather a Freudian slip on your part. It is the world of branding that evangelises with religious fervour, not PC gamers.

Marketing does FAR MORE than inform people, it does far more than make people want to buy something. Marketing actually makes people enjoy products more! To spite them being identical. People think cola tastes better when it is drunk from a bottle with the Coca Cola label on it, even in side by side taste test. The same trick can be done with cars, replacing the BMW badge with a generic Chinese Manufacturer's badge.

This is what I'm working against.

This deep seated prejudice is so hard to break through, gives so many people such a consistent bias towards the corporate controlled eco-system of console gaming.

To spite how much a game like Hard Reset is clearly made for PC Gaming's strengths, the snap response is 'why can't it be on console, any platform but PC'.

I call it "Damned by faint praise".

 

[Racecarlock]

Guys, don't try to drag out arguments with treblaine. I have tried to explain to him that I just prefer console gamepads over mouses, but he seems to think I just haven't been "Enlightened" yet and preaches down to me like he's some kind of minister. You can't argue with this guy, just try to ignore him.

Yeah, nice weasel words there. Paint me as some kind of Religious evangelist as I try to defend PC gaming from the tidal wave of consolisation. It's latest victim being People Can Fly and their bastard child Bulletstorm; textbook example of consolisation screwing the pooch.

You can argue with me, you just can't seem to win. And you can't accept it when I blow your arguments out of the water, you act like I'm somehow being hard-headed.

Though I am quite fed up dealing with your fallacies and circular logic; Like how you prefer consoles simple because you prefer consoles. You aren't able to say why you like gamepad more other than familiarity, which you could argue just as strongly for any input device, including Mouse + keyboard.

All you have to do is give a reason. An explanation, an example, an elucidation, a clarification - just tell us WHAT IT IS you prefer about a controller that is objectively WORSE at its job in so many ways!?!? I'm pretty sure I've brought this up before, how mouse is nigh on the PERFECT pointing device in every practical test.

But I see where you are coming from. Consoles offer something that PC cannot: Branding.

See it's more than just a gaming machine, it's a Brand. It's Xbox. It's Playstation. It's Nintendo!




TV ad telling people how great it is to own a Gaming PC: does not exist

PC gaming may be personalised, completely under your control and to your needs but corporations globally don't spend Billions of dollars on marketing if it didn't work.

This is the potent power of marketing, it can literally get people whipped up into a religious fervour about heavily marketed products.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/05/19/apple.religion/

Now who is the evangelist? I think your hostile characterisation is rather a Freudian slip on your part. It is the world of branding that evangelises with religious fervour, not PC gamers.

Marketing does FAR MORE than inform people, it does far more than make people want to buy something. Marketing actually makes people enjoy products more! To spite them being identical. People think cola tastes better when it is drunk from a bottle with the Coca Cola label on it, even in side by side taste test. The same trick can be done with cars, replacing the BMW badge with a generic Chinese Manufacturer's badge.

This is what I'm working against.

This deep seated prejudice is so hard to break through, gives so many people such a consistent bias towards the corporate controlled eco-system of console gaming.

To spite how much a game like Hard Reset is clearly made for PC Gaming's strengths, the snap response is 'why can't it be on console, any platform but PC'.

I call it "Damned by faint praise".

I am familiar with a controller, I have an easier time with a controller, I do fine with a controller. And when the hell did I say anything about branding? And by the way, when you say you're the one PC gamer fighting a tidal wave of consolisation? You sound just like the guys on fox news who keep saying christianity is under attack from atheism. And another thing, why should I have to defend my preferences? Why can't I just say I prefer console controls and things and we just leave it at that? And you only think you're winning the arguments because, guess what? You are hard headed. You can't accept the fact that different people have different preferences, then you drag these arguments out until the other guy gets exhausted, then you preclaim victory. Of course, you'll tell me i'm wrong about that because you can't take criticism and you can't look at yourself objectively to see what mistakes you made with your arguments. Do you think my preference is the wrong one, and if so, explain to me how preferences and opinions are "Wrong".

 

[Treblaine]

I am familiar with a controller, I have an easier time with a controller, I do fine with a controller. And when the hell did I say anything about branding? And by the way, when you say you're the one PC gamer fighting a tidal wave of consolisation? You sound just like the guys on fox news who keep saying christianity is under attack from atheism. And another thing, why should I have to defend my preferences? Why can't I just say I prefer console controls and things and we just leave it at that? And you only think you're winning the arguments because, guess what? You are hard headed. You can't accept the fact that different people have different preferences, then you drag these arguments out until the other guy gets exhausted, then you preclaim victory. Of course, you'll tell me i'm wrong about that because you can't take criticism and you can't look at yourself objectively to see what mistakes you made with your arguments. Do you think my preference is the wrong one, and if so, explain to me how preferences and opinions are "Wrong".

Again, I ask for elaboration. Again you just say "I prefer it because I prefer it".

you only think you're winning the arguments because, guess what? You are hard headed.

Projection much? And again repeating your slander with the religious extremist analogy when you know damn well it applies more appropriately to console fanboys. I have elaborated and answered your questions, you have parroted the same circular-logic over and over again.

Branding IS relevant because it is an explanation for your prejudice that so far you have given no reasonable basis for.

You can't look at yourself objectively to see what mistakes you made with your arguments.

You refuse to even understand me. I'm not saying your preference or opinion is "wrong" (I never actually used that word) I'm saying that your opinion is irrelevant because I believe your preferences are based on trivial bias. I am arguing with your REASONING not your actual preference.

You refuse to EVER give an actual REASON!

You are NOT a simple animal. You are a conscious self-aware human being, you Can describe WHY you like something, WHAT you prefer about it. I reasonably conclude that you refusal to address these is because you have a fundamentally illogical basis for your preference.

You need to accept that you announcing you preferences will colour other people's opinions of console gaming. When they hear so many people say "I prefer using a gamepad" they are going to wrongfully give you all the benefit of the doubt and assume the weight of opinions indicates an actual objective difference.

You seem so reluctant to QUALIFY your opinion in any way.

It's like someone saying "Well I think Michael Jackson is innocent of all the charges against him... though I am the hugest fan of his work and absolutely worship him".

 

[shaboinkin]

Fact: 9 out of 10 threads dealing with PC games turn into PC vs Consoles


Anyways, I think I need to know more about the game and their pricing before I make a decision. When I first saw the video, it reminded me a LOT of Unreal Tournament 3. I'm making an educated guess and going to say they are running this on the unreal engine...which is why I hate the unreal engine. Unless you really try to make the game look different, it's probably going to look the same.
Hell, Mass Effect has some of the hints of unreal tournament 3 graphics. Where most games are brown and gray, this engine makes everything gray and red.

 

[Treblaine]

Fact: 9 out of 10 threads dealing with PC games turn into PC vs Consoles.

Yeah, it's amazing how petty console gamers can be when they hear of just a single PC exclusive.

The sense of entitlement is extraordinary especially after all the bullshit that developers are saddled with when they try to take their vision to consoles.