Hardcore gaming is dead forever...

[Signa]

I feel like this image captures what the OP is talking about, and I fully agree with it

Spoiler

fact is, games aren't made to be complex and interesting. They are made like popcorn flicks where anyone can sit down, have some fun experiencing them, and then throw them away and forget about them by the time the next one comes around. It's like games want to be Michael Bay's movies. All hype and flash, but no real substance. Even games that are lauded as "hard core" are just either artificially difficult (one-hit deaths), or severely punishing (low checkpoints). I want complexity and depth. I want to be able to find new ways to beat the game without some one holding my hand and telling me I'm not allowed to play my own way.

While greatly simplified, I feel like Borderlands was a great example of a modern game that allowed the complex freedom I want. Each class is granted skills that work great with a certain weapon class, but if you take your time and think about it, there are plenty of other weapon classes that can be used instead of the intended class. Granting the sniper a shield penetration skill was almost necessary just to keep him as powerful as some of the other assault classes, but if you choose to ignore sniper rifles and just use shotguns, the same shield penetration abilities still apply. Suddenly, the player is taking them game into their own hands and is not letting themselves be guided by what the developer decided was the only way you were allowed to have fun.

I feel like Diablo 3 is going to be the opposite of this. The players will be forced to play the game only the way Blizzard says. I know in Diablo 2 I enjoyed all sorts of hacked off-line playthroughs just because I was tired of how the game started with every character. Blizzard is making sure with an iron fist that all players, new and veteran, will have to go through all the same patronizing steps.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

what about Dark Souls, Demon's Souls, Catherine (probably any Atlus game really)?

 

[RandV80]

I'd say OP is sort of right but a little confused. Casual is games like bejeweled or angry birds, quick to pick up and play. The more appropriate term for the dominant gamers game of today would be 'mainstream'. The big developers have mastered the art of making a big budget game that has wide spread appeal at all levels. There are problems with this but really it's not that bad, and the indy market has really stepped in to pick up the slack for niche gaming.

Personally I find the most concerning thing is the stripping of long standing PC game assets in order to monetize PC-like aspects of console gaming. Really the only true jerks in this area though are Blizzard-Activision, with EA being on the fence. As long as there's equally strong companies like Valve and Bethesda that keep games open on PC for free user generated content I'm happy.

 

[chaosyoshimage]

Isn't this a TVTrope? Although pretty much everything is a TVTrope...

 

[Da Orky Man]

Hmmmm, like many others, I think the problem here is your definition of hardcore game. If you are looking for games that are hard to play/master, there is a game out there that I can't remeber the name of but you can find if you search that requires you to make a man run using 4 keys to control different parts of the legs. I would call that a very hard game, but I wouldn't call it a hardcore game.

That would be QWOP. And it's hellishly difficult.

 

[Jingle Fett]

for a simple reason really, now that video games have become a profitable market, there really is no incentive to make a good hardcore game anymore that really pleases an increasingly niche section of gamers. Every year i see less and less hardcore games coming out( i think the last one i played was Vanquish, and that game wasn't very successful. I don't even want to think about FPS). The fact of the matter is, the people who truly care about video games are greatly outnumbered by casuals, and the gap will only increase. Its even making its way into PC, which for a long time was protected from too much casual entry due to it being somewhat expensive, and not completely easy to pick up, but now even it is becoming more accessible and watered down. This is a serious problem guys we need to consider, but there's not much we can do about it. one day everything's going to be a wagglenoobtubenolearningcurve casual fest, and devs are still going to make millions.


Just my opinion though. what do you guys think?

I don't agree. Short term yes, but not in the long term. The hardcore people are the ones who will always return but the casuals...this is a problem Nintendo is currently facing big time with the 3DS. The 3DS isn't selling as well as the big N hoped and why is that? Mainly because the casuals already know what games they like (casual games) and the can already get those games on the cheaper 3DS. I'm guessing that a lot of the casuals who do buy a 3ds are the people who don't already have a regular DS (I know this is the case with my younger sister). And even then, they just end up buying regular DS games.
The game experience is the same and the games being in 3D or having better graphics means nothing to the casuals because they don't care about that stuff. Hardcore gamers do though.

This is likely the reason why Nintendo is now marketing hardcore games like Mario Kart, Star Fox and Zelda for the 3ds over the usual Wii sports clone stuff. Casuals aren't buying cos they have no reason to and that's not going to change for a while. Hardcores though...if the games are there, they will come. There simply aren't enough right now to convince most hardcore gamers.

And it will be worse with the Wii U because it will essentially be the same situation but on a larger scale. Casuals have already bought their Wii and they can get their fix of casual games with it for a lower price than the Wii U.
Hardcore gamers, on the other hand, will buy it if the games they want are there. After the Wii disaster, Nintendo is going to have to try twice as hard to convince the hardcore gamers to upgrade.

 

[Wolfhowl the shadow lurker]

Hardcore gaming has always been dead to me.

As I'm one who believes that gaming is simply gaming, neither casual nor hardcore no matter how much you like to fool yourself otherwise. And in my eyes only those who win money in competitions, like the MLG dudes, can ever call themselves hardcore.

yup this

i think your worring over nothing really gameing is better better all the time and hardcore gameing should not really matter as long as we get good games

 

[2xDouble]

It really depends on how you define "hardcore gaming".

 

[Twilight_guy]

I think you're a troll and if not a troll then a hipster. I don't talk to trolls and I think hipsters have their heads too far up their asses to think straight. You're thread makes me sad since so many people are paying attention to your plees for attention when they should treat you like the child you are and firmly rebuke such threads.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Gee, what a shocker: an inflammatory, declarative thread title, followed by a paragraph that frantically tries to establish a moderate "personal opinion."

for a simple reason really, now that video games have become a profitable market, there really is no incentive to make a good hardcore game anymore that really pleases an increasingly niche section of gamers. Every year i see less and less hardcore games coming out( i think the last one i played was Vanquish, and that game wasn't very successful. I don't even want to think about FPS). The fact of the matter is, the people who truly care about video games are greatly outnumbered by casuals, and the gap will only increase. Its even making its way into PC, which for a long time was protected from too much casual entry due to it being somewhat expensive, and not completely easy to pick up, but now even it is becoming more accessible and watered down. This is a serious problem guys we need to consider, but there's not much we can do about it. one day everything's going to be a wagglenoobtubenolearningcurve casual fest, and devs are still going to make millions.

Sorry to break it to you, but you're coming across like the gaming equivalent of a hipster. You refuse to believe that anything remotely 'mainstream' can fit your definition of 'hardcore,' and you even set up your standards to fulfill that. Do you think 'casual' gamers are the ones going out to buy Skyrim and Battlefield, Saints Row and Assassin's Creed? Or have those become too popular to be considered 'hardcore'?

 

[Elsarild]

Your wrong.

I don't feel the need to qualify that statement, i'm pretty sure most of the people here have already done that for me.

Redundant post is redundant.

 

[iseeyouthere]

Whatever happen to middle-ground?

Why is it always "one side or the other"?

 

[Haxxle]

Hardcore games? no, there are no hardcore games. There are only Hardcore players.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Hardcore gaming will never die as long as there are those who will shout loudly about how it's dead.

Besides, how old are you? Old enough to have played the old Sierra adventure games? Now that's hardcore gaming by anyone's description. Have games gotten a lot simpler since then? Absolutely, otherwise gaming probably would have died. So are you still playing games made today? Or even from the last decade? If yes, then you are not a hardcore gamer, because you are already playing simpler and easier games than the 'real' hardcore games of the old adventure game days.

 

[Natdaprat]

I feel hardcore MMOs are dead or dying. Everyone wants to play WoW or one of its clones, nobody wants full loot FFA/RvR pvp with real skill involved. The only game that comes to mind that offers that is Darkfall, and that must have like 2000 players maximum, and dropping.

 

[Arina Love]

Times have changed, now more and more people just enjoying games. a lot of my gamer friends almost never rise difficulty above easiest including me. i don't seek challenge in games, only experience of story characters and game itself. but is you call me a casual gamer i would have to disagree with you, i played almost all AAA titles and pretty much all J-RPG that came out this generation, i game every day, hardcore gamer is a broad meaning.

 

[lRookiel]

Meh, you can just play the games still considered "Hardcore". A "Hardcore" game being something thats difficult or competitive. games like League of Legends, Bloodline Champions and Counter strike, there you go.. go play..

 

[Anggul]

I find the very notion of 'hardcore games' amusing.

What makes a game 'hardcore'? To me it just seems to be a silly codeword for 'It has guns and blood... and idiots swearing down the mic at you.'

 

[Korolev]

There will always be a hard-core market. The market is expanding, and for sure, there will always be more casual players than hard-core players. But if big companies neglect the hard-core crowd, that will leave the market untapped, and some new, smart company will move in and make the hard-core games. Hard-core games will ALWAYS sell, because there will ALWAYS be people who want them. Companies survive by carving out niches - by selecting specific target audiences and producing games to cater to that target audience. Casual games might be profitable, but there isn't enough room for every company to make casual games - some companies will still make hard-core games - especially if they think that audience is not being paid enough attention.

For instance: Fast-food is always cheap and easy to make and has mass appeal. But gourmet restaurants are still in business! Michael-Bay Explosogasmtraganzas make hundreds of millions of dollars and appeal to pop-corn crunching audiences who want summer-block busters... but intelligent, thoughtful films are still being made, every day.

Hard-Core gaming will exist forever, since there will always been hard-core gamers who want hard-core games. It's capitalism! An untapped market doesn't stay untapped. You have to only look at the MASSIVE retail success of Dark Souls to see that in action.

 

[Spitfire]

Given that in most games you can adjust the difficulty to be as challenging as you want, the only games that are truly "hardcore" are online competitive games, which are as popular as ever. Yes, there's been an increase in casual games, but not at the expense of "hardcore" games. Yes, it boggles my mind as well how so many people can enjoy playing that kind of stuff, but whatever. Different people enjoy different things, and the more people play games, the less gamers will be stigmatized, so it's all good as far as I'm concerned.