Hardcore gaming is dead forever...
- Thread starter Grand Master Sage
- Start date
Hardcore gaming will never die as long as there are those who will shout loudly about how it's dead.
Besides, how old are you? Old enough to have played the old Sierra adventure games? Now that's hardcore gaming by anyone's description. Have games gotten a lot simpler since then? Absolutely, otherwise gaming probably would have died. So are you still playing games made today? Or even from the last decade? If yes, then you are not a hardcore gamer, because you are already playing simpler and easier games than the 'real' hardcore games of the old adventure game days.
Besides, how old are you? Old enough to have played the old Sierra adventure games? Now that's hardcore gaming by anyone's description. Have games gotten a lot simpler since then? Absolutely, otherwise gaming probably would have died. So are you still playing games made today? Or even from the last decade? If yes, then you are not a hardcore gamer, because you are already playing simpler and easier games than the 'real' hardcore games of the old adventure game days.
I feel hardcore MMOs are dead or dying. Everyone wants to play WoW or one of its clones, nobody wants full loot FFA/RvR pvp with real skill involved. The only game that comes to mind that offers that is Darkfall, and that must have like 2000 players maximum, and dropping.
Times have changed, now more and more people just enjoying games. a lot of my gamer friends almost never rise difficulty above easiest including me. i don't seek challenge in games, only experience of story characters and game itself. but is you call me a casual gamer i would have to disagree with you, i played almost all AAA titles and pretty much all J-RPG that came out this generation, i game every day, hardcore gamer is a broad meaning.
There will always be a hard-core market. The market is expanding, and for sure, there will always be more casual players than hard-core players. But if big companies neglect the hard-core crowd, that will leave the market untapped, and some new, smart company will move in and make the hard-core games. Hard-core games will ALWAYS sell, because there will ALWAYS be people who want them. Companies survive by carving out niches - by selecting specific target audiences and producing games to cater to that target audience. Casual games might be profitable, but there isn't enough room for every company to make casual games - some companies will still make hard-core games - especially if they think that audience is not being paid enough attention.
For instance: Fast-food is always cheap and easy to make and has mass appeal. But gourmet restaurants are still in business! Michael-Bay Explosogasmtraganzas make hundreds of millions of dollars and appeal to pop-corn crunching audiences who want summer-block busters... but intelligent, thoughtful films are still being made, every day.
Hard-Core gaming will exist forever, since there will always been hard-core gamers who want hard-core games. It's capitalism! An untapped market doesn't stay untapped. You have to only look at the MASSIVE retail success of Dark Souls to see that in action.
For instance: Fast-food is always cheap and easy to make and has mass appeal. But gourmet restaurants are still in business! Michael-Bay Explosogasmtraganzas make hundreds of millions of dollars and appeal to pop-corn crunching audiences who want summer-block busters... but intelligent, thoughtful films are still being made, every day.
Hard-Core gaming will exist forever, since there will always been hard-core gamers who want hard-core games. It's capitalism! An untapped market doesn't stay untapped. You have to only look at the MASSIVE retail success of Dark Souls to see that in action.
Given that in most games you can adjust the difficulty to be as challenging as you want, the only games that are truly "hardcore" are online competitive games, which are as popular as ever. Yes, there's been an increase in casual games, but not at the expense of "hardcore" games. Yes, it boggles my mind as well how so many people can enjoy playing that kind of stuff, but whatever. Different people enjoy different things, and the more people play games, the less gamers will be stigmatized, so it's all good as far as I'm concerned.
"Hardcore" is just a label that makes certain gamers feel good about themselves. It doesn't mean a game is particularly difficult or complicated. Half the casual games I've played are twice as difficult as any of this "hardcore" crap.
That said difficult games will always have their market, we're just getting into the habit of including tutorials.
That said difficult games will always have their market, we're just getting into the habit of including tutorials.
Should i simply direct you to the Jimquisition to tell you why you are so laughably wrong
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/3769-A-Different-Kind-of-Difficulty
now apologize to jim and THANK GOD for him
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/3769-A-Different-Kind-of-Difficulty
now apologize to jim and THANK GOD for him
I don't mind the term to differentiate between creative games and marketed stuff*., but still... I'm not a hardcore puzzler I think, or reader, or pianist, or tv watcher, but I can do it for hours.
*by which I mean the games made to a mold to make money, more marketing than creativity.
*by which I mean the games made to a mold to make money, more marketing than creativity.
What the hell do you mean by "hardcore" and "casual"?Grand Master Sage said:
Is this not "hardcore" enough for you:
You do realise that the literal definition of the word "Hardcore" means a "niche minority appeal to the most committed with most demanding tastes". Hardcore can - by definition - never be mainstream!
There are plenty of "hardcore" games in that sense:
-Hard Reset
-Dark Souls
-Red orchestra 2
-Shogun 2
-Megicka 2
-Portal 2 (i think the average person would struggle with this game unreasonably)
-Dirt 3
-Gran Turismo 5
-Bioshock 2
-Street fighter 4
Casuals have ALWAYS outnumbered the hardcore. By definition.
This makes no sense. You can even play mario kart hardcore. You don't need a game to cater to a more hardcore gamer audience to play it hardcore. CoD by itself is not a hardcore game, but if you're competing in game battles and stuff, of course it means you play it hardcore.
And a further 10mg's of Monster Hunter and a single dose of Ninja Gaiden 1.theheroofaction said:
But, as many people have said, what is hardcore? I grew up with the Sega Mega Drive (or Genesis for you americans out there at this time in the morning) and I loved Sonic, I barely played anything else, sure the odd platformer but Sonic was what I came back to time and time again.
I then had a ps1 and I was still a youngster and was into games like Crash and Spyro and completely bypassed games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy VII til I was older. I loved gaming. I loved playing Spyro or Rayman or games similar, I would play anything from Metal Slug to 007 Racing. Was I hardcore then, was I playing hardcore games or were they all casual?
My ps2 was what really introduced me to gaming proper with incredible, deep games like Dark Cloud and Final Fantasy X, I was a JRPG teen, it was also where I had my first dose of action games like Metal Gear Solid 2 and Devil May Cry, sure I also had the odd platformer but mostly for my little brother, I still played through Crash's ps2 game, I adored Klonoa 2 and then even later on that gen I actually bought my own games console for the very first time in the Gamecube and fell in love with games like Wind Waker and Metroid Prime while staying true to my JRPG teen years with Tales of Symphonia and Skies of Arcadia.
Are all of these games hardcore? Buying and enjoying Super Mario Sunshine, is that hardcore?
This gen I have all 3 consoles and I am not lacking in the same games I enjoyed and loved when I was in my teens at least (platforming seems to have died a bit, well unless you have a Ps3 or a Wii, which I do), and so I can enjoy playing hardcore titles like Demon's Souls, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and Fallout: New Vegas. I can also enjoy platforming titles like Little Big Planet 2 or Super Mario Galaxy 2. I've even found a love for point and click thanks to great "hardcore" games like Hotel Dusk and Sam and Max. In my eyes this generation is flooding with hardcore, you just have to look past the new player friendly games like Modern Warfare and Halo and go into more depth with titles already mentioned like Fire Emblem or Demon's Souls.
I say to my friend all the time, just look and you'll find some.
I say the same to you.
I then had a ps1 and I was still a youngster and was into games like Crash and Spyro and completely bypassed games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy VII til I was older. I loved gaming. I loved playing Spyro or Rayman or games similar, I would play anything from Metal Slug to 007 Racing. Was I hardcore then, was I playing hardcore games or were they all casual?
My ps2 was what really introduced me to gaming proper with incredible, deep games like Dark Cloud and Final Fantasy X, I was a JRPG teen, it was also where I had my first dose of action games like Metal Gear Solid 2 and Devil May Cry, sure I also had the odd platformer but mostly for my little brother, I still played through Crash's ps2 game, I adored Klonoa 2 and then even later on that gen I actually bought my own games console for the very first time in the Gamecube and fell in love with games like Wind Waker and Metroid Prime while staying true to my JRPG teen years with Tales of Symphonia and Skies of Arcadia.
Are all of these games hardcore? Buying and enjoying Super Mario Sunshine, is that hardcore?
This gen I have all 3 consoles and I am not lacking in the same games I enjoyed and loved when I was in my teens at least (platforming seems to have died a bit, well unless you have a Ps3 or a Wii, which I do), and so I can enjoy playing hardcore titles like Demon's Souls, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and Fallout: New Vegas. I can also enjoy platforming titles like Little Big Planet 2 or Super Mario Galaxy 2. I've even found a love for point and click thanks to great "hardcore" games like Hotel Dusk and Sam and Max. In my eyes this generation is flooding with hardcore, you just have to look past the new player friendly games like Modern Warfare and Halo and go into more depth with titles already mentioned like Fire Emblem or Demon's Souls.
I say to my friend all the time, just look and you'll find some.
I say the same to you.
Casual gaming really started on PC's, and it's still a stronger platform than all the others. Most casual gamers play casual games on the PC, you could even say it all started with Solitaire, or that old game pack that came with Windows95, with Tetris etc.
I think theres plenty space for all types of game, if people want a certain type of game, then that's all that counts. To be honest I'm not sure what classifies a hard core game or gamer. I see hardcore games as those with the biggest challenge, and generic games can often provide that challenge. It shouldn't be about learning curves, a complex game is not necessrily any better than a simple game - hell, Angry Birds might just pose more of a challenge to complete than 'hardcore' games. If Minecraft is mainstream, and Dwarven Fortress is hardcore, then I'd rather be a mainstream gamer... we moved away from games that look like spreadsheets back in the 80's.
I think theres plenty space for all types of game, if people want a certain type of game, then that's all that counts. To be honest I'm not sure what classifies a hard core game or gamer. I see hardcore games as those with the biggest challenge, and generic games can often provide that challenge. It shouldn't be about learning curves, a complex game is not necessrily any better than a simple game - hell, Angry Birds might just pose more of a challenge to complete than 'hardcore' games. If Minecraft is mainstream, and Dwarven Fortress is hardcore, then I'd rather be a mainstream gamer... we moved away from games that look like spreadsheets back in the 80's.