But they still approved it. They gave FUCKING THISYoshi178 said:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Waz-xPnNcaI/hqdefault.jpg
THE GREEN LIGHT!
I don't think they're the type of company that will seriously let themselves get tied up.
Has Zelda painted itself into a corner with Breath of the Wild?
- Thread starter Casual Shinji
- Start date
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Waz-xPnNcaI/hqdefault.jpg
THE GREEN LIGHT!
I don't think they're the type of company that will seriously let themselves get tied up.
I actually Posted this exact comment on a Kotaku Thread.
Their can be multiple Zelda games, 2d Top Down dungeon crawler, 3d Dungeon Crawler and 3d who gives a fuck about a dungeon open world game. Seriously, the 4 Main dungeons in BOTW seem like they were left over from a different build of the game and where kept in just because its a Zelda game.
Their can be multiple Zelda games, 2d Top Down dungeon crawler, 3d Dungeon Crawler and 3d who gives a fuck about a dungeon open world game. Seriously, the 4 Main dungeons in BOTW seem like they were left over from a different build of the game and where kept in just because its a Zelda game.
I just hope it isn't "Gannon is back to destroy the world" again.
Contrary to popular opinion, the trifecta of base characters isn't strictly necessary.
Contrary to popular opinion, the trifecta of base characters isn't strictly necessary.
Well, there is a lot they could do.
They could pull a Majora's Mask, have a similar world with a mechanic that puts an overarching and constant threat on them. If they brought back a similar "world will be destroyed", the Shika Slate's teleporting for fast travel could be incredibly valuable and give you more reason to learn the world and find the towers, marking maps, etc.
They could characterize Link more. Link clearly had a character in BotW that wasn't explored upon as much as it should have been. Small things like him showing cockiness or a sense of rivalry in his expressions when remembering Revali or when he meets him again. If he gets his memories back of Zelda he could fall to his knees and just cry, feeling like he failed her in his most important duty as a knight, etc.
They could shift things. Have Zelda be the player character. Heck, have GANON be the player character. Make this the start of another branch in the timeline or a new line where the hero fails again because of YOU. Imagine just destroying everything and it being the right thing to do!
They could pull a Majora's Mask, have a similar world with a mechanic that puts an overarching and constant threat on them. If they brought back a similar "world will be destroyed", the Shika Slate's teleporting for fast travel could be incredibly valuable and give you more reason to learn the world and find the towers, marking maps, etc.
They could characterize Link more. Link clearly had a character in BotW that wasn't explored upon as much as it should have been. Small things like him showing cockiness or a sense of rivalry in his expressions when remembering Revali or when he meets him again. If he gets his memories back of Zelda he could fall to his knees and just cry, feeling like he failed her in his most important duty as a knight, etc.
They could shift things. Have Zelda be the player character. Heck, have GANON be the player character. Make this the start of another branch in the timeline or a new line where the hero fails again because of YOU. Imagine just destroying everything and it being the right thing to do!
Zelda BOTW has an amazing open world but it's story is lacking and the dungeons were pretty bad.
Where to from here?
BOTW open world design + Majora's Mask Atmosphere and storytelling + Twilight Princess dungeon quantity and quality = perfect.
Where to from here?
BOTW open world design + Majora's Mask Atmosphere and storytelling + Twilight Princess dungeon quantity and quality = perfect.
Zelda's barely ever been linear. Maybe in the sense that a lot of games require you to go from point a-b-c in that order, but you're always allowed a large amount of exploration in-between those points.Casual Shinji said:
The most compelling argument I've heard so far is that BotW takes place at the end of Timeline A. You could perscribe a similar scenario to Timeline B. Or, specifics aside, you could have a BotW scenario in at least two of the three LoZ timelines.Casual Shinji said:
Yeah, its basically always been open world, barring the MetroidVania esque locking of areas behind abilities. Which usually are a fairly minor portion (generally small secrets or the dungeons themselves).Hawki said:
Breath of the Wild's "first open world" status seemed mostly an excuse to slack on delivering crafted content. 2/3 Shrine types were either just the reward instantly, or a repeated single enemy in a room (and I think the puzzle shrines were probably actually 20% or less). Reused enemies all over but rarely with any particular logic or reason to their placement. Rather then a variety of equipment that gave unique combat or mobility options (or puzzle mechanics to play with, though BotW had a decent set vomited at you immediately at the start of the game), swords and armor entirely based on damage numbers, with limited use in the weapons side and a ludicrous MMO esque grind for the armor ones. The two exceptions are kind of weirdly placed, you get them after reaching the spots you would ostensibly want them to get to. They don't prep you for a challenge, they allow you to bypass a challenge you've already defeated.
Considering that I hate the idea of a sandbox zelda game, I would say most certainly not.
I much prefer the small, tightly designed world of Majora's Mask. Breath of the Wold is large and empty. Majoras Mask is small, but bustling and lively. There are secrets behind every corner. That is the absolute epitome of a zelda game. Breath of the wild feels barren and destitute in comparison, despite its visuals.
Edit: In fact, none of the zelda games ever felt linear to me. The side quests in OoT and MM were haunting and memorable. Some of the best in the history of gaming. The open world nature of BotW felt like an excuse for poor level and world design. Do you remember the side quest in OoT where you have to get medicine for the old man in the woods? And you come back, only to be informed by a small child that he's been lost to the woods, to become a stalfos? How about in MM, when you visit the ranch with the two sisters at night? And the older sister is going to give her younger sister milk laced with alcohol so that she isn't scared when they die? That's a far better reward for exploring then some dumb weapon that will break after 3 uses. Zelda has lost its way.
I much prefer the small, tightly designed world of Majora's Mask. Breath of the Wold is large and empty. Majoras Mask is small, but bustling and lively. There are secrets behind every corner. That is the absolute epitome of a zelda game. Breath of the wild feels barren and destitute in comparison, despite its visuals.
Edit: In fact, none of the zelda games ever felt linear to me. The side quests in OoT and MM were haunting and memorable. Some of the best in the history of gaming. The open world nature of BotW felt like an excuse for poor level and world design. Do you remember the side quest in OoT where you have to get medicine for the old man in the woods? And you come back, only to be informed by a small child that he's been lost to the woods, to become a stalfos? How about in MM, when you visit the ranch with the two sisters at night? And the older sister is going to give her younger sister milk laced with alcohol so that she isn't scared when they die? That's a far better reward for exploring then some dumb weapon that will break after 3 uses. Zelda has lost its way.
Ah yes, trying the "they have nowhere else to go argument." I remember people saying the same of Super Mario Galaxy. Turns out they were wrong. As they always prove to be. You'd think people would pick up on pattern recognition
... didn't they just release "Super Mario Galaxy 2", then retreat into making 3D Mario games with 2D level layouts, then release a game maker kit, and now we're back to hub world 3D Mario? All they've done is go back and/or in circles.Aiddon said:
I mean
Hopefully the next Zelda game actually has dungeons
cause thats one thing I missed in botw
sure there's the shrines
but those are a single puzzle with two loading screens attached
and the great beasts were kinda lacklustre and had garbage bosses that were way too easy at any point in the game
Hopefully the next Zelda game actually has dungeons
cause thats one thing I missed in botw
sure there's the shrines
but those are a single puzzle with two loading screens attached
and the great beasts were kinda lacklustre and had garbage bosses that were way too easy at any point in the game
Wind Waker has an open world in that you can sail across the entire map (once you get the Wind Waker), but the majority of quests, even the side ones, are locked off unless you acquire a certain item. And this item is usually only given to you in the main quest, which is completely linear. It's similar to how Shadow of the Colossus has a world where you can go almost everywhere from the start, but you still need to defeat the Colossi in order. It's more of a hub world than an open-world.Saelune said:
btw. I'm not trying to use 'linear' as a dirty word here.
My issue is more your definition of open world, or rather that the issue is Zelda becoming more open world. I stand by that it is more that Breathe of the Wild is too much an RPG. When I played it, I kind of want Nintendo to make future Zelda games more like how they used to be...but take the RPG stuff from BotW and make a new IP with it.Casual Shinji said:
I really dont disagree with your core intent, its more about semantics.
As much as people like to bad mouth Nintendo for not doing anything new, they're actually more averse to just making the same exact game over and over again. Just look at the difference between Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask despite MM using a lot of OoT's assets and engine. I don't think Nintendo will make another Zelda game like Breath of the Wild or if they do then they will do what they did with MM and take it in a very different direction.
There wasn't that much RPG to it though, was it? You could choose whether to upgrade your health and stamina, and you could choose from an array of weapons and armor, but that was really it. I mean, Link was even a way more set-in-stone type character than he's been in a while (despite having even less personality this time).Saelune said:
Also when I say Zelda might've painted itself into a corner, I don't mean BotW trumps all previous games. But seeing as it was hailed as one of the best games ever made by critics and fans, specifically due to how it handled its open-world, that Nintendo might be a bit puzzled on where to take the franchise next.
Only thing I will say is that they need to focus a lot more on quality over quantity going forward in the open world setting. I played through the game a second time, and this was the first Zelda game I was quick to sell back. It was a fun time sink, but when I sit down and think about it, there's nothing memorable that stands out. Bare bones dungeon design, lackluster bosses, and too large a world even with the abilities given to you for exploring. That, and pretty much no unique items that you get that feel like it adds to the variety. Many wanted an open world Zelda like this, but there was a lot missing to make it a truly memorable experience for me.
That and Nintendo has gone back to previous styles frequently. Just going with Mario, New Super Mario Bros was about going back to the 2D style while the just-released Odyssey was about going back to SM64's style. With Zelda A Link Between Worlds was a deliberate throwback to the top-down perspective from the SNES age while even BotW was about evoking the more open-ended style of original game. So it's silly to say Nintendo can't go back to previous styles because they've been doing it CONSTANTLY.Specter Von Baren said:
I'd like to see them try a level based version of the formula, kind of like Demon's Souls or Bloodborne. It would be the exact opposite of BOTW and the contrast would be too big for it to be seen as a letdown (assuming the game is good which, let's face it, it will be).