Hasbro: We've Released "Plenty" of Female Star Wars: Rebels Toys - Update

keniakittykat

New member
Aug 9, 2012
364
0
0
ZiggyE said:
keniakittykat said:
It's not about a shortage of star wars figures, not really. It's about toy companies not wanting to sell, or sell to girls.
Hasbro does sell to girls. In fact it has many female orientated properties. The issue is girls don't want to buy star wars. That isn't sexism.
You're completely missing the point, here. It is not that there aren't any popular licenses for girls, it's that merchandisers don't want to sell originally male-oriented properties to girls because they have an unfounded fear of losing their money.
While not really sexism, it's more of a chicken and egg concept; aren't girls buying the toys because they just aren't interested, or aren't they buying because no one is making them?
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Actually I think this is a matter of out of control politics more than anything. The big question people should be asking is "why are these toys out of stock?" the answer is of course "because people buy them". If you've paid attention for example you'll notice that female figures are among the first to sell out in many cases, for example there was a huge run on things like "Ninjini" for Skylanders and the limited edition one seemed to disappear in record time (I was reading some things about this, and another character called "Flashwing" that was some overpowered crystal dragon). When you look at things like oh say "Malifaux" or "Warhammer" figures the female models tend to be the hardest to find since the batches sell out. On something like Ebay you'll find it's far more expensive to say start buying an army of Sisters Of Battle or find other female figures than to say build a space marine force. When Games Workshop does restock some of these figures they seem to wind up depleting the supply fairly quickly. When it comes to statues and such collectors productions featuring female characters oftentimes out sell their male counterparts. I believe DC at one point even wound up running entire "DC Heroines" lines for this reason.

Now the reason for this is obvious, girls like the girl figures, and dudes like stuff with hot girls for decoration in setting up displays and such.

What's more action figures nowadays aren't something kids play with heavily, I mean it happens, but action figures tend to be aimed at a collector's market and fans. This includes people speculating and preparing for resale down the road. This has had some interesting effects on a few toy products right now like Skylanders, Disney Infinity, and Amiibo as you see products kids actually like in this video-game driven day and age entering into the collectors market, which means that a kid or the parent of a kid who simply wants a toy to be played with and is acting like a typical consumer (go to the store, expect a toy to be there) competing with fandom and collectors for the same pieces.

Something like Star Wars that has a *fanatic* fan base is probably seeing it's most recent IP circled by collectors and speculators like hungry sharks, especially with what a lot of old Star Wars toys go for The way this sounds is that as many female figures were produced as were of the male characters, however speculators and fans as opposed to kids bought them all up. The judgement is simply being made based on what can be easily found on the shelves at Wal*Mart. Chances are if you want a current run Princess Leia figure or one of the female "Rebels" characters it's pretty easy to get, but your simply going to have to go to a collector's market and pay three to five times the retail price to people who know they have the market cornered and will be able to sell these figures for what they want given time and patience.

I'd also expect the "multipacking" is because Hasbro knows geekboys will buy the female figures, and packing them with more figures (reprints and such) allows them to charge even more for the figure they know people want.

Now yeah, this does suck from the perspective of average mommy going to buy her kids figures, but this is nothing new, and it's been going on for a while and continues to "shock" for whatever reason. If anything the problem isn't to go after Hasbro but to complain to retailers. I'd be surprised if people on this site of all places haven't run into people camping stores like Wal*Mart and walking away with a bunch of copies of the same figure, or at least heard about it. When it comes to things like this stores don't generally enforce any kinds of limits. At the same time, it needs to be understood that Hasbro itself knows it's producing a collectible product at this point, and it's not going to shoot itself in the foot by overprinting. Like it or not the sales to kids right here and now aren't the bread and butter of their business, unless the whole situation changes, it knows that it's long term relationship is going to be with those collectors and speculators who will continue to purchase and trade the products for decades if treated well.

Trying to put things into the context of older toy lines like "Ninja Turtles" doesn't quite work because while huge that was a sort of "out of the blue" success and wasn't expected to be as long lasting as it turned out to be. Nobody expected nostalgia to actually have people wanting to pay crazy prices for Ninja Turtle figures down the road, thus nobody say ran out to all the toy stores and bought out entire shipments as soon as they came in the door to put them on Ebay or drive them around from Con to Con. In that case you can argue *some* sexism being present since it was arguably a testosterone fest, with that version being marketed at boys almost exclusively too young to think of girls as being anything but "yucky" (though this did not remain the case). However at the same time to the credit of the Turtles they did back down to the feminists making complaints and introduced "Venus Demilo" which hardly seemed to bring the screaming girls in and arguably remains mocked to this day. The point here being that going by this kind of precedent you really can't blame certain kinds of businesses for not catering to PCness when it usually backfires on the bottom line. Screaming gender inequality for example doesn't mean much if you can't guarantee women showing up with piles of money if the demands are met. You want pandering, you pay for it, even if half hearted, enough money comes in and as time goes on it will be taken more seriously.

Also as a side note, it's possible Carrie Fisher herself might have done a bit to tank Princess Leia in recent years. She didn't age well, and it still remains to be seen what a personal trainer (and if rumors are to be believed) extensive plastic surgery can do. Everyone dug her, or crushed on her, back in the metal bikini days, even girls sort of worshipped it as "Bikini Leia" is a sort of cosplay favorite, however time passes for everyone and I think the reality of what she aged into hit a lot of people it kind of hurt the character's popularity, fair or not. It also probably doesn't help that she apparently made some money (she wasn't as successful as other Star Wars Alumni apparently) as a stand up comic, and doing autobiographies talking about Star Wars behind the scenes which weren't especially flattering, I remember some quote about how to do that job, especially the famous bikini bit, she had to come to work really stoned. I wouldn't be surprised if a number of fans have a grudge against her for sort of mocking Star Wars professionally, sort of like a phase Shatner went through, albeit without working consistently like Shatner did, and not turning things around on her own (right now if she recants it's arguably because she's being offered money for a sequel that was never going to be made, Shatner seemed to apologize even when he didn't have any direct Trek projects in the works, he was arguably concerned that being typecast as Captain Kirk meant a lot of his other work wasn't being as appreciated as it should be.. Shatner actually being pretty talented and versatile).
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
keniakittykat said:
ZiggyE said:
keniakittykat said:
It's not about a shortage of star wars figures, not really. It's about toy companies not wanting to sell, or sell to girls.
Hasbro does sell to girls. In fact it has many female orientated properties. The issue is girls don't want to buy star wars. That isn't sexism.
You're completely missing the point, here. It is not that there aren't any popular licenses for girls, it's that merchandisers don't want to sell originally male-oriented properties to girls because they have an unfounded fear of losing their money.
While not really sexism, it's more of a chicken and egg concept; aren't girls buying the toys because they just aren't interested, or aren't they buying because no one is making them?
... Or (as I pointed out below) are all the toys being bought out so fast that the girls just can't reliably find any in the course of regular shopping. :)
 

keniakittykat

New member
Aug 9, 2012
364
0
0
Therumancer said:
... Or (as I pointed out below) are all the toys being bought out so fast that the girls just can't reliably find any in the course of regular shopping. :)
Exactly, this guy gets it!
 

Genocidicles

New member
Sep 13, 2012
1,747
0
0
Therumancer said:
... Or (as I pointed out below) are all the toys being bought out so fast that the girls just can't reliably find any in the course of regular shopping. :)
Well if that was the case then why wouldn't Hasbro see that they're selling successfully and produce more?
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Genocidicles said:
Therumancer said:
... Or (as I pointed out below) are all the toys being bought out so fast that the girls just can't reliably find any in the course of regular shopping. :)
Well if that was the case then why wouldn't Hasbro see that they're selling successfully and produce more?
No, because as I explained in the longer post I referenced that their reliable market is collectors who tend to do long term business when it comes to trading figures. If they over produce the figures then it reduces the value of the ones in circulation, and that means collectors will stop buying their stuff. At the end of the day sales to kids who play with the toys are a small business, especially nowadays, even if you drive all of them away your going to sell more to the fans. Years ago it would have been a lot different, as there wasn't as much of a collectors/fan trade, and also kids still played with toys a lot, the toy industry has been kind of gutted by video games.

As a general rule action figures get produced in limited batches of so many figures. Once a given figure has been sold out they eventually do another series of figures.

As I pointed out, I very much doubt these figures aren't out there, it's just that your not going to find one by stopping by the local toy store or Wal*Mart. You'll need to check Ebay or various cons, and typically the people there will want between three and five times the retail price, but then again they aren't selling to kids who are going to play with them, and they know eventually they will find fans to pay for "Star Wars" stuff and as time goes on they will just keep raising the price as that specific run of figures becomes more and more of a historical footnote.

It's sort of like the "Skylanders" figures, one of the scarce ones was apparently "Ninjinni" originally, they produced tons of them but they vanished from shelves, especially the "Scarlet" ones very quickly apparently (not a Skylanders fan, I just heard about it). It's not that they produced only a handful of them because nobody wanted to play with a girl, it was because it was a cool display figure (being fairly human looking) and also people were heavily speculating on it's value along with other Skylanders. The idea is the batches sell out, people want the figures for the collection, and the dude who bought 30 of them as soon as they came into the store can now make a profit selling well above retail.

In short, knowing how this business works, I believe Hasbro did indeed produce a lot of these figures, as much as the other ones. I simply think the speculators and resale crowd predicted a demand and got there. If you really want one for your daughter, or yourself, I very much doubt you couldn't find one if you put in the effort. Of course when you find one your probably going to be dropping a decent amount. I'd be very surprised if there aren't guys with shelves full of them going around between Comic Cons and things like that.
 

cleric of the order

New member
Sep 13, 2010
546
0
0
mad825 said:
I fail to understand on how this article trying to say it's a problem. Are we in some kind of bizarre USSR state demanding that there must be full female representation in everything?
да


Maze1125 said:
Only in America would institutionalised sexism get repeatedly "justified" by referencing capitalism and "freedom"...
No, ancient Athens would do that too, of course in their own language and slightly modified, you can't tell me the Funeral oration of Pericles isn't some vague freedom rant. Then again, this is the only state in history that people give two flying fucks about sexism at all.
 

Redvenge

New member
Oct 14, 2014
79
0
0
piscian said:
Part of me wants to be sympathetic, but I'm uncomfortably gonna side with the " Omg please go take your feminist whining somewhere else!". I say this despite being a feminist because as far as I know there's never been an equality issue in Hasbros toyline. I own a goddamn Mon Mothma action figure and she's not even a cool character. I highly suspect the people complaining could not actually give a shit about the characters its just controversy to click bait with.

I'm sure Hasbo will release the rest of the characters they always do. Chill the fuck out. This is why people don't respect affirmative action movements. Its hard to take Al Sharpton seriously when he shows up with lawyers every time a black guy gets a speeding ticket.
...
The complaint of "not enough female character toys" is subjective, but there are also some odd glaring issues as well.

As mentioned in the article, Disney's online store for the Star Wars franchise had no Princess Leia toys. It's one thing to complain about parity, but if there is no representation for a major character (regardless of gender), then then I have to say "WTF". Disney only decided to include a Princess Leia figure AFTER consumers made an issue of it. They never had any intention of making such a product.

People have mentioned that there are several female characters in "Star Wars: Rebels" that have never had merchandise. If these are major story characters, then I can see why fans would be upset.

I'm a big fan of R2-D2. If there were no R2-D2 toys, I would be ranting on a Disney forum myself.
 

Davroth

The shadow remains cast!
Apr 27, 2011
679
0
0
keniakittykat said:
ZiggyE said:
keniakittykat said:
It's not about a shortage of star wars figures, not really. It's about toy companies not wanting to sell, or sell to girls.
Hasbro does sell to girls. In fact it has many female orientated properties. The issue is girls don't want to buy star wars. That isn't sexism.
You're completely missing the point, here. It is not that there aren't any popular licenses for girls, it's that merchandisers don't want to sell originally male-oriented properties to girls because they have an unfounded fear of losing their money.
While not really sexism, it's more of a chicken and egg concept; aren't girls buying the toys because they just aren't interested, or aren't they buying because no one is making them?
...do you have sales data on hand? Or is this baseless conjecture based on your opinion and anecdotal evidence? I have no horse in this race personally, but if there is data to back this up I'd love to see it.

And no, the Young Justice thing is not enough. Yeah, I know what they said, and I was rather upset at the time because I loved that show. However, I don't have the data. Would the unintentional new female demographic buy Young Justice merchandise? It seems to me that this only really works out when the unintentional demographic turns out to be young adult males, who will buy pretty much /any/ kind of merchandise. Yeah, that's anecdotal as well. I only ever personally witnessed it with the recent MLP tv series.

But then, again, I would like to see the data that says that it would be marketable.
 

Coruptin

Inaction Master
Jul 9, 2009
258
0
0
I doubt that it's true, but it would be hilarious if this was Hasbro showing signs of frustration with the ongoing demand for more and more female Transformers. Thus are Transformers fans not just content with ruining our own toy lines and fandom, we have to stop everyone else from having fun too!
 

Gorrath

New member
Feb 22, 2013
1,648
0
0
I am all for consumers making a fuss if a product they want isn't being produced. It makes perfect sense for those who feel under represented to make it very clear what they want to see. These are the kinds of actions that speak to companies. If you're a Star Wars fan and want more female characters made into toys, yell it from the mountaintops.

However, it lacks sense to act as if representation in commercial products is an issue of justice or ethics. Companies do not owe anyone a product they want unless said product is a public good. Clearly, action figures are not a public good. In fact, I can't think of any product that representation would be an issue that is a public good. (By public good here, I mean a product which is necessary for basic living, like utilities.)

So, I encourage and applaud those who make it clear to companies that they desire specific products. Hell, companies often very much want that kind of feedback anyway. I do not encourage demanding these products on the grounds that anyone is owed them. People are doing nothing wrong by asking for products that suit them and companies are doing nothing wrong by looking at their sales data and declining.
 

sneakypenguin

Elite Member
Legacy
Jul 31, 2008
2,804
0
41
Country
usa
So I can break down an individual upc's sales based on geographic location, demographics, shelf location, see its supply in the market down to the exact location in the store updated live , get an average daily loss from OOS, forecast demand based on a near infinite set of parameters... But its sexism why decisions are made? Not the fact I can pull up data and see that auto price reductions have hit certain characters cause they don't sell or that the buyers team has product in the chain that is projected to sell more/higher margin?


Its like when I worked for a big red beverage company I knew down to the case what a store sold. People always ask why don't you stock this flavor its really popular here we love it and i'd pull up the data from when it was in and it wouldn't even break 1 case a week hence why it was pulled...Space is expensive as hell not gonna waste it on something that doesn't move despite protestations to the contrary.
 

OldNewNewOld

New member
Mar 2, 2011
1,494
0
0
Hasbro is a company, they are in for the money. If they aren't making more female rebel toys, it's because they aren't selling as well as the male rebel toys. There is no conspiracy or agenda behind it. They make things that the market demands. If there is no demand, they won't be making it. That's how every industry works. You don't see anyone asking for Samsung or Sony to make more of the TV's that are in stock. So why are people asking for more of these? Having more won't make them magically sell more. If they managed to somehow create demand out of thin air, they would be the single most successful company in human existence. Do you honestly believe someone would say no to all the money just because he wants less females? I don't think so.
 

Grabehn

New member
Sep 22, 2012
630
0
0
mad825 said:
I fail to understand on how this article trying to say it's a problem. Are we in some kind of bizarre USSR state demanding that there must be full female representation in everything?
Actually yeah, and it's been an on-going thing for quite a while.
 

SirAroun

New member
Apr 27, 2011
84
0
0
ZiggyE said:
If female character figures sell less than male character figures, then surely this would be expected? The market responds to demand. If people aren't buying female figures at the rate of male figures, then of course there will be a shorter supply of female figures. What is Hasbro supposed to do about it? If Hasbro could create demand out of thin air, they'd be the most successful company in the world.
Female character sell because they less advertisement.
 

ryukage_sama

New member
Mar 12, 2009
508
0
0
Keep asking for them, and buy them when you find them if you want them.

Toy companies can and do choose which products get the most promotion, which impacts sales. Christmas toy catalogs inform the tastes and demands of children by how they sort and arrange their products. If Toys R Us puts Sabine and Princess Leia toys on the "pink" pages next to Barbie and My Little Pony, they would garner more sales to those fans of Barbie and My Little Pony. (I'm not suggesting that they would sell great or in equal amounts to any other product, simply that they would increase their sales to the people looking at those pages.)

It would be erroneous to assume that companies always pick the product that would sell best or that their customers want most, and their admittance to this is infrequent given that admissions of malfeasance are equatable to blood in the water for executives at publicly traded companies. Disney's reluctance to embrace a female audience for their Star Wars merchandise is perplexing to me given the prominence of girls in their series, but they may be hesitant to change course to pursue "the most money" when they're already earning "lots of the money" with their current model.
 

Belaam

New member
Nov 27, 2009
617
0
0
Gorrath said:
However, it lacks sense to act as if representation in commercial products is an issue of justice or ethics.
Nope, because it works if you tie it to that. Remember the girl who wanted a non-pink easy bake oven for her brother?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/boy-friendly-easy-bake-oven-teen-girl-bat/story?id=18003828

If she'd just griped about wanting more design options, I doubt she would have gotten results. But setting up the company to look like a good guy by publicizing a gender neutral or "boy colored" oven? Free marketing. Interview a couple of male chefs, interview the kid, you've got a slow news day covered as well. The company gets to tout their progressive attitudes as well.

People loudly decry sexism in toy marketing because it works better than just grumbling that they want more variety.

mad825 said:
I fail to understand on how this article trying to say it's a problem. Are we in some kind of bizarre USSR state demanding that there must be full female representation in everything?
Well, in humans, the gender ratio is close to 1:1, so yeah, people prefer to see that reflected in representations of humans as well. The same principal is why Friends used to get a lot of flack for being set in New York and only featuring white people.