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Phlakes

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Mar 25, 2010
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So I wrote a little thing and figured I might as well put it up here too. And yes, I know it's massive, there's a very succinct TL;DR at the bottom but obviously it's very oversimplified.

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There is something deeply wrong with the video game industry right now. Well, as I imagine you yelled from a soapbox while gesticulating wildly after reading that, there are several. But there's one that's become very, very apparent and has had a massive effect on the community, including me and many other people I've talked to. So it's only fitting that this issue comes from the community itself.

Yes, you, in the general sense, the majority (or vocal minority) of the online gaming community, are a part of something fundamentally flawed. You should know what I'm talking about already. Now a quick bit of clarification because someone will be that guy, when I say "gaming community" or "you" or "the audience," please don't go out of your way to ignore the figurativeness and be that guy. The specific group of people I'm talking about will hopefully be apparent. Alright then.

The gaming community is based on hate and distrust.

Go to any forum or site comments or even people in real life, and look for reactions to any upcoming game. Taking one off the top of my head right now, it might be a good idea to look at Halo 4, since it, unfortunately or not, has a very diverse hate-base. Let's start off with a few quotes, taken from a variety of online communities. [sic]s are left out because I can't be bothered with forum posts-

"They can't just let the damn series die can they?"

"Instant respawns, a perk that lets you see through walls, powerful weapons drop on the map in random position, class loadouts.... Its just not Halo anymore. Halo is dead."

"It's fine to judge mechanics on how they function in the system but Halo that doesnt feel like Halo is still a dissapointment."

"I guess if you like everything being changed to the Call of Duty style of multiplayer and gameplay, it's alright. Just to simply milk the cash cow that is first person shooters right now, instead of being innovative."

One thing that's important to note is that, as you probably know, Halo 4 has not been released yet (at least as I'm writing, you might be reading this from the future). No gameplay footage has been released outside of short clips from trailers. No press, as far as we know, have gotten their hands on the game. And people are declaring, as you've seen, that the entire series is "ruined forever." Now, I'd rather not get into the psychology of it since that would take another whole article, but these people are obviously being irrational and heavily biased. If you don't see that, you are too. But I don't mean to say that those people are wrong and I'm right because I'm so obviously perfect and not biased at all, I'm talking about awareness here. But again, that's an entirely different article.

See, irrationality and bias is everywhere and they're accepted parts of life. The problem is when irrationality becomes common, or even worse, constantly expected. As I said earlier, this isn't typical overreaction, this is a widespread mindset that's been in the community for much too long to be considered a passing phase. And it's dangerous.

But I do have to say that it is somewhat justified to be cautious when following the industry today. Video games are young and even the biggest publishers don't know exactly how to handle it all so we get a lot of unsavory tactics and actual disappointments. I repeat- it's justified to be cautious. There's a difference between being hateful and being cautious.

Right now there's a very strong "us vs. them" thought pattern. Some people seriously and honestly believe that developers and publishers are actively trying to antagonize their consumers, and these sorts of conspiracies end up becoming rumors, which end up becoming those little thoughts in your head that pop back up again when that part of your brain is stimulated again, and when they pop back up in enough people at the same time they can become actual beliefs. You would have a hard time trying to find anyone who trusts a developer outside of the one(s) they might follow (or, as the gaming community likes to say, the ones that they're a fanboy of). Or as what's happening with Halo 4 or Hitman Absolution or what will definitely be happening with the new Gears of War that was recently announced, people who were "fanboys" of the developer will go into RUNIED FOREVER mode and claim that they'll boycott the game the second something seems to go against their personal views of what makes Franchise X Franchise X.

Although I might be a bit behind the times there. The boycott phase seems to be over now, after the word lost all its meaning through overuse and consistent failure to actually follow through. Now we're starting to get into a similar phase with petitions. Whenever a group of people hear or see something they don't like, someone will go to change.org and make a petition either asking or demanding that the developer make some change to please them. Just recently there was a petition regarding DLC for Dark Souls. But not just any little DLC issue. From what I could find out, some DLC had been announced for PC and there was an active "no comment" on its availability for consoles, along with an acknowledgement of the console players' interest in it. In someone's mind this constituted a preemptive petition rather than trust or patience (UPDATE: It's recently been announced that the DLC will be coming for consoles, rendering the petition completely unnecessary.)

Now, I don't mean to say that voicing your opinion is a bad thing. If you honestly think that a decision will be detrimental to the game or series or audience, you have every right and reason to say it. Where the line is drawn is when that gets into demands.

I guess I'll have to get into Mass Effect 3 now. I was hoping to avoid it but it might be one of the best examples of consumers putting themselves against the developer/publisher. I know no one wants to keep hearing about it, so I'll keep it short.

The game that was released was the game that was released. The ending to that game was made for a reason and if there was a significant internal disagreement it wouldn't have made it through production. The audience has every right to be upset over it if they disliked it. They have, however, absolutely no right to allege that Bioware is obligated to change it.

And that's where the hostility started. Almost instantly, Bioware became a symbol of betrayal. EA became in people's minds a machine fueled by fat men in suits that sucks in money and spits out solidified disrespect. The reviewers that didn't follow the majority/vocal minority's opinion (something along the lines of "Mass Effect 3 is a betrayal of everything the fans ever felt and the ending retroactively ruins the entire franchise and nullifies anything positive about all three games", and that could very well be a direct quote) were seen as machines that suck in money and spit out high scores. And the fans saw themselves as victims of oppression.

I suppose that's natural for people, though, especially in groups. And especially with the "gamer" demographic. There's always been a strong disposition against "the man". And whoever is unlucky enough to anger their audience becomes "the man" for a short while until someone else makes the same mistake. It becomes a cycle of constantly redirected hate, driven in waves or irrationality- Developer 1 files a lawsuit against pirates and the community shifts their hate toward them, then a month later that hate has settled and Publisher 1 announces that Franchise X will be getting another installment, so the hate shifts toward them, then a month later that hate has settled and Developer 2 announces that their game won't have dedicated servers so the hate shifts toward them, and so on.

It's childish. And the gaming community needs to grow up eventually. We can keep up this cycle forever. It's damn well possible that the majority of online discussion will always be about how Franchise X has been ruined forever or how Publisher 1 is the worst company that has ever existed or how Developer 2 so obviously sold out. It's possible that the minority of conspirators and their ridiculous theories (reviewers taking bribes, or my personal favorite, publishers plant moles in forums years ahead of time to clean up PR messes) will start to leak into the community's thoughts until people start to forget that this is an entertainment industry.

There needs to be a massive shift in perspective here (and no, I don't think I can actually do anything to affect that even with you reading this right now). Developers, publishers, and game reviewers are all people. Never forget that. They all went to school and had Christmas or whatever holiday with their parents, they all have their own morals and personal beliefs, and they're all relatively intelligent. They know what the community thinks. They're not blind. When a reviewer gives a popular game a 6/10 they know what they're in for. When something like Mass Effect 3 happens, and they gave it a 9/10, they know the accusations that'll be thrown around. When a publisher/developer gives a game DRM, they know that there'll be backlash and they know everything that's been said in angry forum rants. And at the end of the day, they're giving something to be entertained by. Very, very few people will be in the industry if they aren't passionate about it. Yes, even the millionaire CEOs who seem so "out of touch". This is a time where people need to open their view a little bit. Almost every single complaint is from the eyes of the consumer only, and only takes into account the consumer's interests. In a perfect world, that's all that would matter, but unfortunately that's not possible outside of a utopian society. Companies need to make money. Steve the environment artist needs to put his kid through college. Publisher 1 can't be confident in investing in Super Niche Adventure Game The Game because their stocks have been falling for a solid year, so they put their money in Bankable Gritty Brown Shooter to get back on their feet. Dave the writer is done with his job once the game is out of preproduction, and sometimes bonus content is the only thing between him and getting laid off. Never forget that.

Does that mean that every decision is made in everyone's best interest, and the industry is free of corruption? Hell no. But it's not nearly as prevalent as gamers proclaim or believe. Just because someone is receiving your money, that doesn't mean you have to watch every step they make and call them out for being corrupt when they do something that doesn't sound quite right.

Just trust someone for once. If a developer wants to work on another installment of Franchise X, let them. If there's an audience for it, let them have the game, even if you don't like the sound of the new direction for the series. Instead of defaulting to "this is now ruined forever", be cautious, not hateful. No one deserves to be hated for a relatively minor decision in an entertainment industry. Microsoft doesn't deserve to be hated for continuing to develop Halo, EA doesn't deserve to be hated for investing in their popular franchises, etc. Hate is a strong word and a strong feeling. If you throw it around so trivially, you better have a damn good reason be so unhealthily resentful. Or you could stop. You could remember that every game that you buy has hundreds or thousands of hours of people's work put into it for ten hours of your enjoyment, and you could appreciate that for once. Maybe let them know that they really are making something you enjoy. Maybe send them a card and some flowers. I'm sure that would be a little improvement in their day in the middle of the floods of hate mail that get sent their way.

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TL;DR: hundreds of people put time and money into pleasing you, so maybe you should appreciate the good things for once instead of holding a grudge over every little thing that ever pisses you off. At the very least it's healthier for you and the community.

And please remember that this TL;DR is way oversimplified and not the entire point. So many people are quoting this alone over something that's covered in the actual text.
 

targren

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Phlakes said:
TL;DR: hundreds of people put time and money into pleasing you, so maybe you should appreciate the good things for once instead of holding a grudge over every little thing that ever pisses you off. At the very least it's healthier for you and the community.
Sorry, no. As the apologists are quick to complain every time the industry does something blatantly anti-consumer, "the point of a business is to make money." It is not "the thought that counts," and what you suggest here would not be healthier for the community. It would more advantageous for the industry. Big difference.

What would be healthy for the community would be getting over the silly "brand-tribe" mindset that leads gamers to do things like complain about games being released cross-platform because those heathens who didn't buy the Playstation 360 have no business playing. (Yes, I've actually this right on this site, where someone complained about potential 360 release for Persona).

Deciding we should be grateful for every developers' screw-ups and being bent over a coffee table by publishers... yeah, not so much.
 

lRookiel

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Jun 30, 2011
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Thank you for putting a TL;DR Phlakes. :3

OT: I don't "hate", I "criticize" or "vent" (Everyone has to vent sometimes)

I don't tend to get angry about games unless it's a crappy effort on the devs part, like FIFA games, I see literally no difference, it's just re released every year with a slight graphical improvement(Good thing I don't play/like actual football otherwise I might care about these things). So there is an example of the "Hate" I produce, nothing more.
 

Phlakes

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targren said:
Deciding we should be grateful for every developers' screw-ups and being bent over a coffee table by publishers... yeah, not so much.
Phlakes said:
appreciate the good things for once instead of holding a grudge over every little thing that ever pisses you off
The point isn't that we should ignore the bad things, but that when half of every forum is filled with hatemongering, there's something deeply wrong. Criticism isn't inherently wrong, what's wrong is when almost everyone is critical all the time, some/most of it being for trivial reasons.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Phlakes said:
TL;DR: hundreds of people put time and money into pleasing you, so maybe you should appreciate the good things for once instead of holding a grudge over every little thing that ever pisses you off. At the very least it's healthier for you and the community.
Wellllllll....

I was with you for a lot of that. I really was. I hear what you are saying. But these people are NOT in the business of "pleasing me". These guys are in the business of pleasing their shareholders. If I happen to get pleased in the bargain, that's a happy accident, but I'm the #2 priority. Maybe not for some of the individuals working on the games, but for the company in general. Never doubt that.

You need to also remember that what you're seeing is a loud and self-selecting sample of people giving negative feedback over the internet. I know a lot of gamers who are completely oblivious to the pet hates that consume message boards. They're just "Oh, Diablo 3, derp derp, I enjoy some Diablo" and buy the game, and play it, and say "Oh my this is a good time", and that's pretty much the end of it.

Finally, ME3 was bad art, and there was ne'er a law that says bad art can't or shant be changed.

targren said:
As the apologists are quick to complain every time the industry does something blatantly anti-consumer, "the point of a business is to make money."
Can we stop with the "apologist" crap? That's getting right up there with fucking entitled and fucking fanboy as far as popular ad hominems on the Escapist goes. Any argument or position that relies on ad hominems to get the wheels spinning is a worthless argument.

And the point of a business IS to make money. We can complain about capitalism and the evils of corporate personhood elsewhere, but that's just a fact, not an apology.
 

targren

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BloatedGuppy said:
Can we stop with the "apologist" crap? That's getting right up there with fucking entitled and fucking fanboy as far as popular ad hominems on the Escapist goes. Any argument or position that relies on ad hominems to get the wheels spinning is a worthless argument.
Clearly you've not read the arguments I have. Leaping to the defense of something in the face of logic, rather than with it, is what an apologist is.
 

BloatedGuppy

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targren said:
Clearly you've not read the arguments I have. Leaping to the defense of something in the face of logic, rather than with it, is what an apologist is.
We are not having an argument, nor am I discussing the salience of your arguments. If someone cannot debate you on facts, then your argument should stand without you needing to call that person names. It's intellectually lazy and I'm beyond sick of encountering it on the forums. By all means, make your arguments. Just lay off the name calling.
 

The_Lost_King

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lRookiel said:
Thank you for putting a TL;DR Phlakes. :3
(Good thing I don't play/like actual football otherwise I might care about these things). So there is an example of the "Hate" I produce, nothing more.
*cough**cough*soccer*cough**cough*(why do we,United State of Americans, call american football football we rarely use our feet.)

OT: It's easier to complain about games than to praise them.
 

Phlakes

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BloatedGuppy said:
I was with you for a lot of that. I really was. I hear what you are saying. But these people are NOT in the business of "pleasing me". These guys are in the business of pleasing their shareholders. If I happen to get pleased in the bargain, that's a happy accident, but I'm the #2 priority. Maybe not for some of the individuals working on the games, but for the company in general. Never doubt that.
This is an entertainment industry. The "entertainment" part of that is the consumer. The big, underlying motivation for developers is that, not making a profit, but money is definitely still a motivation. The whole "they only care about the money" mindset is exactly the problem, though.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Phlakes said:
This is an entertainment industry. The "entertainment" part of that is the consumer. The big, underlying motivation for developers is that, not making a profit, but money is definitely still a motivation. The whole "they only care about the money" mindset is exactly the problem, though.
Who is "they" in this equation? Is it an individual developer? Maybe a graphics artist? Certainly they might love their job. OR they might be in it for the money. OR maybe it's neither...maybe they hate the customer and hate their job and really wanted to be an actor. We can't say.

Is it a publicly traded company? Because they're required by law to put the interests of their shareholders ahead of all other things. If we're personalizing companies, we do need to accept that "they" aren't particularly emotional entities. They operate purely on the motivation of maximizing profit. That's not cynicism or "booga booga, corporations are the enemy", that's just plain old reality.

The great thing is, I can get called both an anti-corporate hippie and a corporate apologist for this one sentence depending on what the person reading it decides to assume.
 

Muspelheim

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http://lparchive.org/I-Have-No-Mouth-and-I-Must-Scream/Update%201/img-2.gif

Just felt it was somewhat appropriate. :3

Although I agree, it's like boatloads of people has become caustic, unforgiving Anton Ego-esque critics, as of late. (I call it Yatzhee-Yellow Fever, hurr)
Sure, being slightly critical and mindful of games is a good thing, nothing improves unless you examine the faults, but everything has its limits. Honestly, if you were to take all the various criticism of games in general at face value, there wouldn't be a single game in the universe worth your time. Well, maybe the DoItYourself-critics can agree on one obscure childhood title or something.

Criticism is good. Warranted criticism is important. But sometimes it gets taken a bit too far...
 

DustyDrB

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I don't really have a problem with all of this, myself. This is how it should be, I think. Consumers need to draw a hard line, lest they be taken advantage of further. People do need to actually refrain from purchasing products when the company practices business in a way that doesn't sit right with consumers. That would send a much more salient message, but I'm certainly not going to start saying, "Quit protesting if you won't amend your spending accordingly". I guess I defend people's rights to be hypocrites.

The Dark Souls petition seems like a very good thing for all sides to me. One side says, "Here's a way you can make more money". The company says, "OK, here you go". That seems great to me, even if things aren't always that cordial.

This is just a new reality. Game publishers and developers opened up the floodgates. They told us that feedback is important. They gave us forums. They joined Facebook and asked us to like them. They communicate on Twitter. These all invite fans to communicate en masse, so no one should be surprised that all of this is happening. You can hope for is the discussion to become more level-headed, but people aren't going to stop making requests or demands.
 

Kahunaburger

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Phlakes said:
The gaming community is based on hate and distrust.
Depends on the gaming community. An antagonistic response to AAA games from major publishers is pretty common, but it's not generalizable to every community around every game.
 

Scrustle

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That isn't true. It is a vocal minority where all the hate and distrust comes from, the whole community is not based on it. It is the psychology of these few people that makes them act this way, and it's not indicative of all of us.

I mean, think about it. How many of your gamer friends actually act in this childish, hateful way? I'm betting it's a pretty low number, if any at all. I can personally only think of one, and that person happened to be a dick so he wasn't my "friend" for long anyway. Take a look around these forums too. We do a lot of complaining here but it's rarely of the nature you describe, and when it is it's not tolerated.
 

Tono Makt

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Re: Gaming community based on hate and distrust.

BZZT! WRONG!!

The online gaming community is based on loudmouths who have an opinion and want to share it. There is a small amount of loudmouths who are just looking for anything they can find to criticize - some of them even get paid to do this. (see: Yahtzee. Seriously, you can silently count the number of games he seems to like on a single hand. He's reviewed a small hill of them if you toss them all into a pile (and would likely be pleased as punch to douse them and set them on fire) and every single one he tears apart to find every tiny flaw he can find that can be incorporated into a 5min video in an amusing manner.)

Most, however, just cruise internet forums and post what boils down to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZHwxIL9oYo whenever possible. They don't even need to actually dislike a game to post, since they're just posting to annoy others. We call these people "Wendy's Old Fashioned Hamburgers" (we don't, actually, but you know what happens when you call a "Wendy's Old Fashioned Hamburger" a "Wendy's Old Fashioned Hamburger" on these forums.). They particularly like to find a thread full of people who love something just so they can come in and spread around lots and lots of half-cooked onions, the occasional banana pepper and just enough bun and beef to make people think they're really worth the time and effort to devour.

And as we`re on the intertube thingies, well... it`s one of the few places where we can let a natural distrust of authority (gaming industry) come out without much in the way of consequences. I mean really, I can go spouting off about the latest Zelda game under the name "Triple Patty", talk about how Link blows Lindor Chocolates, get everyone all riled up, get banned, turn off my modem for a night, come back the next morning with a new email address and sign up again under "Bacon Mushroom Melt" and agree with Triple Patty that Link blows Lindor Chocolates and start the party all over again. Newbie comes in and see's two people (Bacon and Triple) talking about the, erm, sexual activities of Link (how does one blow chocolates, anyway? Is that a euphemism for something that's more Playstation than Wii? Or does it reach the (heights?) of X-Box Live?) and thinks that there are two people talking about it, so two people hate it.

Then he goes to another site and finds that there's 5 people there who are now discussing whether or not Link is racist if he prefers to blow white chocolate Lindor instead of Hazelnut. (at which point this particular newbie is likely to say "These people are nuts." and go play with the sane people like Birthers or Truthers) In reality it's just the same guy from the first site who hasn't been totally banninated yet.

ie: Inflated number of haters on the internet.

Getting back to the hate, there isn't much of it in the community. There is a great deal of the opposite - love of games - combined with a desire to make games better. An earnest, naive and cute belief that game designers read these forums and look for feedback, so people will make honest criticisms of games. Often that criticism is pretty weak, admittedly, and comes across as snark. Sometimes it's far more eloquent. These kinds of gamers get into heated debates when one poster likes a game and one doesn't. Toss in a few onions and banana peppers from a "Wendy's Old Fashioned Hamburger" and you get the illusion of hate.

(Erm. Just remembered X-Box Live. Erm... argh. okay, maybe there is a heck of a lot of hate out there in the gaming community...)


Lastly, more than 1,300,000 ME3 units have been sold. 3,500,000 have been shipped worldwide, so it could be closing in on 2,000,000 or more by now. There might be 2,000 people posting online how much they hate the ending. For the heck of it, let's say 6,500 people are online complaining. That means that 0.5% of people who bought it are going online to biatch about it. That isn't alot of people, even if it does flood these forums.
 

targren

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BloatedGuppy said:
If someone cannot debate you on facts, then your argument should stand without you needing to call that person names. It's intellectually lazy and I'm beyond sick of encountering it on the forums. By all means, make your arguments. Just lay off the name calling.
It's not name-calling, though in the contemporary rhetorical climate that focuses more on demonizing your opponent than defending your own position, I suppose I can understand why you might think so.

Calling someone who is in favor of the comfort and security of the status-quo a "Conservative[footnote]Original definition of the term, not the modern garbage that the politicians like to throw around[/footnote]" is not an ad hominem.

Calling someone in favor of shifting focus to change for the benefit of people as individuals a "Liberal[footnote]See #1[/footnote]" is not name-calling.

And referring someone who makes excuses or justifications for the actions and decisions of a third party, dismisses criticisms of those actions as "attacks," and falls back on the schoolyard logic of "but $OTHER_GROUP does $OTHER_THING, and that's even worse!" as an apologist for that third party isn't, either.
 

Iwata

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I completely agree with the OP, in all respects. For an industry that is supposed to being fun and enjoyment, far too many people seem to prefer to focus on the negative aspects and just ***** and complain all the time.

While you're doing that, I'm over here playing my games, just like I've been for the past 20 years.

And the best part? The last time I had this argument, I was accused of being a "casual gamer" because I don't get upset at stuff EA or Activision pulls. True story.
 

Helmholtz Watson

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Phlakes said:
TL;DR: hundreds of people put time and money into pleasing you, so maybe you should appreciate the good things for once instead of holding a grudge over every little thing that ever pisses you off. At the very least it's healthier for you and the community.
No.

Authors, musicians, actors, actresses, movie directors, painters, and architects all get criticized. I see no reason why people who make video games should get special treatment.
 

OldNewNewOld

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My problem with the game community is that most people can't "not like" something. They must hate it.

Most people obviously don't understand that not liking and hating are different things. I can't think of more than 10 things IRL that I hate, jet there is a lot that I don't like. There is also a HUGE difference between hating and criticizing.
The average gamer hates everything that doesn't go their way.

Games are just announced, you don't know anything about them and you can find people bitching, crying and hating on the internet. Using falls arguments, which they know are falls, just to "make" their point.

They can't see someone else enjoy a game that they can't enjoy.
I for one don't like CoD, GoW or Halo. I was never a fan of FPS games excluding the Tribes series and Team Fortress 2. But I don't want those games to change. I know there are plenty of gamer who enjoy those games. I will find some games I like.

But than I go on a Zelda (or Nintendo thread in general) and everything I can see is hate. They hate the game and they hate everyone who likes it. They can't ignore the game. They must demand that the developer bend over just for them and no one else. They completely ignore the fact that the game was never intended for them if they hate everything about the game. So why do they even ask? Because they love to hate.
The only time that you can use the word "love" in a combination with an average gamer is in "love to hate".
 

Phlakes

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Helmholtz Watson said:
Phlakes said:
TL;DR: hundreds of people put time and money into pleasing you, so maybe you should appreciate the good things for once instead of holding a grudge over every little thing that ever pisses you off. At the very least it's healthier for you and the community.
No.

Authors, musicians, actors, actresses, movie directors, painters, and architects all get criticized. I see no reason why people who make video games should get special treatment.
I guess I can just copy this over- Criticism isn't inherently wrong, what's wrong is when almost everyone is critical all the time, some/most of it being for trivial reasons.