Heavy Rain Designer Calls for Revolution - Again
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
It's a very interesting topic. It's definitely nice to push boundaries and expand what it means to "game", but the traditional shoot 'em ups and brawlers will always be there. Gaming, at it's most intrinsic level is competition, i.e. conflict. Conflict in nature usually involved one organism killing/eating another. Humans have just found much more creative ways to do it. So whether we're shooting digital guns at digital people, chopping the up with digital swords or flinging angry birds at evil pigs, or even stomping on goomba heads, that core of conflict will always need to be there for what we think of as a "game".
On the other hand, if we're just speaking of interactivity, the problem becomes making it compelling in some way. I think for the most part that will come down to creativity, whether it's making pictures, music or movies, or level editors or what have you. The other facet that I think would be important is information and learning. New, accessible, exciting ways to get information will always be important, the internet itself being a prime example. Sure, many people don't use it anywhere near to it's full extent, but personally, I probably google up something new at least once per day that I didn't know of/about before. I can honestly say that I learn something every day using the 'net.
If Cage can bring that sort of mentality or useability to video games, I'm all for it, but I think he's going to have a hard time making something, that doesn't involve the gaming conflict we all love, compelling enough to get people paying money for it.
I'll be interested to see what he comes up with, at least. Despite the fact that the gameplay of Heavy Rain was stultifyingly boring, the "game" itself was pretty cool.
On the other hand, if we're just speaking of interactivity, the problem becomes making it compelling in some way. I think for the most part that will come down to creativity, whether it's making pictures, music or movies, or level editors or what have you. The other facet that I think would be important is information and learning. New, accessible, exciting ways to get information will always be important, the internet itself being a prime example. Sure, many people don't use it anywhere near to it's full extent, but personally, I probably google up something new at least once per day that I didn't know of/about before. I can honestly say that I learn something every day using the 'net.
If Cage can bring that sort of mentality or useability to video games, I'm all for it, but I think he's going to have a hard time making something, that doesn't involve the gaming conflict we all love, compelling enough to get people paying money for it.
I'll be interested to see what he comes up with, at least. Despite the fact that the gameplay of Heavy Rain was stultifyingly boring, the "game" itself was pretty cool.
Same thing here, I don't disagree entirely, and I have issues with the LA Noire tech too, but what did Heavy Rain do?NickCaligo42 said:
It pretended to give you choice and consequence when there weren't any, it was rife with plot holes, characters looked like walking corpses, and they used seemingly every nationality but Americans to portray a cast full of Americans.
If he had actually earned the right to be pretentious, then I wouldn't mind so much.
This guy again? His contradictory press statements are worse than EA's contradictory press statements... And that's saying something
At least EA knows and embraces the fact that they have no soul and are a money grabbing monstrosity (but they aren't as bad as Activision so that's ok)
Whereas this guy just flails around attacking anything remotely successful just because it wasn't made by his "artistic vision"
/rant
At least EA knows and embraces the fact that they have no soul and are a money grabbing monstrosity (but they aren't as bad as Activision so that's ok)
Whereas this guy just flails around attacking anything remotely successful just because it wasn't made by his "artistic vision"
/rant
Wow people really seem to hate Cage. essentially what I'm seeing here is
Before this article:
Gamer 1: Triple A titles are stagnating and need t innovate more
Now:
Cage: Triple A games are stagnating and need to innovate more
Gamer 1: How DARE Cage say that what an asshole.
Plus if you go out and re-read his comments on La Noir, he said that the game looks really good. That's hardly "trashing" it.
Before this article:
Gamer 1: Triple A titles are stagnating and need t innovate more
Now:
Cage: Triple A games are stagnating and need to innovate more
Gamer 1: How DARE Cage say that what an asshole.
Plus if you go out and re-read his comments on La Noir, he said that the game looks really good. That's hardly "trashing" it.
I think this is misrepresenting the discussion a bit.Sutter Cane said:
I can´t see anyone disagreeing with his statement itself, it´s just that he appears to be, to use a sociological term, something of a dick.
"Look at Call Of Duty. How many copies does it sell every year? I'm fine with that. It's cool,"
"That appeals very much to my son, who is 10 years old. "
It´s like he´s trying to win some kind of passive-agressive version of the Mortal Combat tournament.
You can see that the heads and bodies (not all of the time, admittedly, but its popped up quite often in the trailers) were mo-capped separately and stuck together. That's the biggest issue, and the only real one with the tech itself. My other problem in relation to that is that the faces look kinda flat, and the textures seem pretty terrible. Seems a bit like 2 steps out of the uncanny valley, 1 step back in.Zom-B said:
I don't agree with Cage that the tech's a dead-end however: the nuance in the faces is certainly impressive, its just that now the faces don't look real for different reasons.
fair enough. Cage does seem very passive aggressive and kind of a douche, but i'm just sick of the fact that it seems to me that a decent amount of the backlash come from the response of some people on here essentally consisting of. "HAVEY RAIN WAS NOT A GAME!!! 5 HOUR QUICK TIME EVENT!!!!!! IT SUCKS!!!!!!", and after seeing that response YET AGAIN I got pissed off and posted that.TheAmazingHobo said:
If you read enough of Cage's comments you'll realise he's really a hack writer with an excessively inflated ego, who succeeded in convincing everyone to ignore that the emperor was really naked [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes].Greg Tito said:
Fair enough. However, until we reach actual photorealism, I think we can give irreal looking faces and bodies a pass. Rather than focus on the texture maps or how heads and bodies are stitched together, I personally will usually focus on how the characters in a game move. I like to see movement that mimics real organic movement, even if the character doesn't look "real". Take the case of games like Another World (or Out Of This World, however you know it) and Flashback where the techniques used gave the characters a more "realistic" movement, but not necessarily a more realistic appearance.Woodsey said:
Anyway, maybe you have too discerning of an eye. I bet those heads and bodies in LA Noire, won't bother too many people.
Cage sounds like one of those pretentious developers who criticizes anything that doesn't follow his idea of what games should be like. And his version of "games" mean $50 choose-your-own-adventure novels.
From Wikipedia:
"...Cage cited his like of M. Night Shyamalan movies"
I am not at all surprised.
From Wikipedia:
"...Cage cited his like of M. Night Shyamalan movies"
I am not at all surprised.
Well, its difficult to judge at the minute - I doubt the trailers will be using a final version of the engine, so it could be something that's stitched up later in development, so I'll wait until I've played it. And its just that I find the facial textures to be so bad at times when I've seen the game, it really stands out - they can look incredibly blurry even in some instances.Zom-B said:Fair enough. However, until we reach actual photorealism, I think we can give irreal looking faces and bodies a pass. Rather than focus on the texture maps or how heads and bodies are stitched together, I personally will usually focus on how the characters in a game move. I like to see movement that mimics real organic movement, even if the character doesn't look "real". Take the case of games like Another World (or Out Of This World, however you know it) and Flashback where the techniques used gave the characters a more "realistic" movement, but not necessarily a more realistic appearance.Woodsey said:
Anyway, maybe you have too discerning of an eye. I bet those heads and bodies in LA Noire, won't bother too many people.
I couldn't agree with you more. He can talk all he wants about "revolution", which to me is an empty word considering how much it's been used as of late, but all he's doing is just ranting to anyways that cares. It's annoying and all he's doing is making himself look like an asshole, not that he needs much help there.Astalano said:
The hardcore gamers have been saying this for the past decade Mr Cage. I completely agree, but the industry's words are hollow. I don't see the trend of fun for the sake of fun stopping anytime soon and until developers other than indie devs start branching out then I can't take your comment seriously. We've been hearing the exact same thing for a long time and I'm tired of sitting here agreeing with it while the industry does nothing and then you come out and say that I'm holding the industry back.
If anyone is holding the industry back, it is you Mr Cage or rather you as a representative of mainstream gaming in general. There is a giant audience of people who would love to explore serious themes in games but publishers are just going with the safe option of casual gamers who play Call of Duty right now. THOSE AREN'T "PURE HARDCORE" GAMERS.
Oh, and turning games into movies isn't the way to go either.
I think the only way is if people actually talk with their money and make it clear to publishers that gamers are tired of the same old thing and wants something more meaningful if not different. But I don't see that happening since everyone expects a new COD game every year and might get pissed if there is a chance their might not be one. Maybe that's just me being cynical about the whole, but I can't take comments like these seriously until I see some kind of action from the industry.
Yes Mr Cage. Because only low self-esteem 10 year olds are playing shooter right? Heaven forbids that there's actually adults and mature people who play them too.
As someone who enjoy Heavy Rain, it's far from the revolution masterpiece that you're claiming it to be: Incoherent story, characters that make you facepalmed yourself and shout 'WHAT!?'
Please save the high and mighty attitude when you actually create such game. Now it just make you look arrogant.
As someone who enjoy Heavy Rain, it's far from the revolution masterpiece that you're claiming it to be: Incoherent story, characters that make you facepalmed yourself and shout 'WHAT!?'
Please save the high and mighty attitude when you actually create such game. Now it just make you look arrogant.
