Heavy Rain Is "Not Porn"

[JoshGod]

im very disconnected to my emotions
soo dont care
ill stick to kill kill kill
not to say i dont appreciate a good stoy its just most suck!
and i need more than a story if im playing a game(the hints in the title GAMEPLAY)

 

[Chasmodius]

So when they say "real characters having emotions and doing what adults do when they fall in love" they must mean people making really stupid decisions, because that's what most of us do in that situation, right? And with the option to quick-save and load, why am I ever going to make a stupid decision?

And if you want a game with a real emotional connection and adult themes (though not sex), check out Façade [http://www.interactivestory.net/]. As Tycho noted, it's a game where the decisions you make actually advance or stall the story.

 

[Torrencore]

It's always a toss up, if it is being done through the medium for the sake of an emotional expression I guess the scenes could be considered art instead of pornographic. When it comes to modern media though, the lines get blurry very quickly. Regardless looks like a good game.

 

[ckam]

So you're saying that this is a Western Visual Novel game... This might get interesting.

 

[Jumplion]

You make decisions? And there is a sex scene? It sounds like one of those ero-japanese date games.

You make decisions? And there is a sex scene? It sounds like one of those ero-japanese date games.

And with that one observation, you've singlehandedly sunk this entire group of fops' grand effort.

Kudos, someone needed to slap these highminded morons and cut through the innovative crap they've sung praises of and show them what their precious game was really shaping up to.

That is extremely shortsighted of you, saying that because you make choices and have the choice to make love to a character means that it's somehow porn. Hell, the ESRB detailed the potential sex scene [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/97549-ESRB-Spoils-Heavy-Violence-Heavy-Sex-in-Heavy-Rain] as;

"The game also contains a prompt-based love scene (kissing and rubbing) in which players match on-screen cues to angle characters' mouths, remove shirts and blouses, unhook bras, and lower to the floor; a woman briefly appears topless amidst the dark shadows and heavy breathing-actual sex is never depicted as the camera fades to black."

You (more specifically, 13lackfriday) are exactly like the Fox "news" reporters who bagged Mass Effect for having a sex scene that wouldn't be out of place in a weekly drama. You had the choice in Mass Effect to pursue a relationship with a crew member, and the resulting sex scene was hardly an "ero-japanese date game".

So, kudos to you for posting something completely ignorant of the actual game and situation itself and acting like those Faux reporters who didn't know two shits about the damn game they were "reporting" on.

Next time, actually get informed on the damn game.

 

[akiata]

You make decisions? And there is a sex scene? It sounds like one of those ero-japanese date games.

You make decisions? And there is a sex scene? It sounds like one of those ero-japanese date games.

And with that one observation, you've singlehandedly sunk this entire group of fops' grand effort.

Kudos, someone needed to slap these highminded morons and cut through the innovative crap they've sung praises of and show them what their precious game was really shaping up to.

That is extremely shortsighted of you, saying that because you make choices and have the choice to make love to a character means that it's somehow porn. Hell, the ESRB detailed the potential sex scene [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/97549-ESRB-Spoils-Heavy-Violence-Heavy-Sex-in-Heavy-Rain] as;

"The game also contains a prompt-based love scene (kissing and rubbing) in which players match on-screen cues to angle characters' mouths, remove shirts and blouses, unhook bras, and lower to the floor; a woman briefly appears topless amidst the dark shadows and heavy breathing-actual sex is never depicted as the camera fades to black."

You (more specifically, 13lackfriday) are exactly like the Fox "news" reporters who bagged Mass Effect for having a sex scene that wouldn't be out of place in a weekly drama. You had the choice in Mass Effect to pursue a relationship with a crew member, and the resulting sex scene was hardly an "ero-japanese date game".

So, kudos to you for posting something completely ignorant of the actual game and situation itself and acting like those Faux reporters who didn't know two shits about the damn game they were "reporting" on.

Next time, actually get informed on the damn game.

Ok I can understand you being upset. It seems like an attack, but I would like to point out I never said it was porn. It was more of a (possible) misunderstanding about the ambitiousness of the idea. While I presonally don't consider such ero-date sims as games, it still has all of the presented qualities of Heavy Rain, i.e. make decisions and a (slightly)sexual outcome may occur. I was just trying to point out that a similar idea has been done.

Personally, I think of most, if not all video games, as interactive stories, which Heavy Rain definately seems to be trying to progress. It really depends on just what level of story telling this game is going to that makes it ambitious. While I'm not yet sold on the idea, interaction between characters is always the best way for people to understand a character and any action. Even everyday action, can have a beautiful story behind it. If they can do it well, Heavy Rain could be a huge leap towards an age of electronic literature.

 

[Belbe]

New, originality and innovation should be something to be proud of. If the parents don't like it, slap a suitable rating on it and let the rest of us get on with it...

Either way, Porn video games will always be around where there are men.

[Edit] looking forward to trying this game. Need a good proper RPG.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

I'd actually buy this game with or without the sex. It looks too interesting to pass up.

Then I noticed the PS3 only line. I am now a sad man

 

[SimuLord]

Going out of my way to not actually read any of the comments on this article, I can probably safely surmise that at least one or two people will read the description and think "Man, this game sounds like it's going to suck." They will probably use argument like "I play a game to be entertained" and "What's fun about a game where you don't defeat enemies or solve puzzles?" And, to be truthful... they would not be wrong to think that way. Allow me to explain why:

Video games have always been just that: games you play through a video projection. They started off as virtual versions of games like table tennis, or slightly more sophisticated representations of board games. Eventually, the goal of these games evolved from "Collect points" to "Save the world from aliens" or "Rescue the princess", but the essence was the same: it was still a game.

For thirty years, the general premise of a video game remained the same; accomplish a goal within certain specific parameters, win the game. From mario and zelda, to Black Isl favs like Baulders Gate and Torment, finally to more fast paced games like Halo or Call of Duty. The parameters might vary, the display might gradually improve, but a game is still a game.

The purpose of said video games have usually been the same, as well: pull the gamers in by attracting one of their stronger positive emotions, like excitement, fear or joy, and then reward their efforts with progress and, eventually, completion, thus giving the player a sense of accomplishment.

Lately, however, some designers have been trying to create games that appeal to more then simple adrenaline and accomplishment. They want to use this fascinating, wholly interactive form of entertainment to tell a story. They want to stir up love, lust, fear, sadness, anger (not frustration, like dying a lot might cause), and any number of varying emotions. They wanted to create immersion.

Many games have succeeded in this respect (many bio-ware games, for example, or arguably Valve). However, there was still one huge obstacle standing in the way; what ever life they might seem to have, these are still games. The story might be great, the immersion nearly flawless, but still the art would be broken into chunks, separated by piles of enemies or puzzles, sometimes very difficult, that the player would have to grind through in order to get back to the story. And while the game is still fun, it is also still a game, where the story is simply a progressive reward for completing the various challenges.

The other day I followed a link in an article right here on The Escapist, leading me to a short, artsy indi "game" called "Every Day the Same Dream." While this game was indeed interactive, it was anything but exciting. It wasn't fast paced, you didn't Kill any enemies, or solve any puzzles (at least, not in the traditional sense). Never once did you think "Wow, this game is awesome!" or even "huh, this game is funnish", because that wasn't the point.

In short, this "Game" wasn't really a game at all. Twas a piece of interactive art; stunning yet haunting, beautiful yet terrifying. The fact that the "player" had to directly interact with the art was one of the most interesting aspects of the piece, because unlike a motion picture, or a written story, or any form of still art, is that "Every Day the Same Dream" literally forced you into the shoes of the protagonist. By playing this "game" you were cast into the monotonous life and repetitive nature of the protagonist, forced to see world not as an impartial observer, but as the very being who would direct the course of events, thus making the art a far more personal experience then any other form of media could achieve.

In short (if it isn't already to late for that) if we study something like Heavy Rain, or Every Day the Same dream, or any of the other impending titles which seem to follow the same principle, as a "Game", then we are bound to be disappointed. That is why I suggest we rename this particular phenomena, not a game (because, in essence, it is NOT a game) but as a piece of interactive art. Hopefully, we will come to respect the individuality of this new form of media, rather then trying to place it in the same comparative category as, say, Halo, or Need for Speed, or even Dragon Age Origins.

Lets all give "Interactive art" a chance.

P.S. I suck at getting my points across in a single post, feel free to raise arguments (which you probably will anyway, as this is the internet and I am voicing an opinion )

LP, while I admire your passionate defense of "interactive art", I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise.

Show me "interactive art" and I'll show you a DVD with quick-time events at the very best and a Japanese dating simulator (or worse, eroge game) at worst. They don't qualify as "games" and they're not interesting enough to supplant completely passive forms of entertainment such as the movies they're trying to emulate.

Games are not art...and efforts at art in gaming cease to be games. What's the big knock against Metal Gear Solid, for example? Probably the interminable, unskippable cutscenes interspersed with just enough quick-time events to prevent the player from knocking off to Taco Bell to go have lunch while Kojima's diarrhea of the pen plays out on screen.

There's nothing "interactive" at all about what you're suggesting, and if it WERE that interactive, it'd be a QTE-fest. Either way, it's going to suck.

 

[Vigilantis]

Not porn? Awww man =( *puts away wallet*

 

[Liquid Paradox]

*Snip*

LP, while I admire your passionate defense of "interactive art", I wholeheartedly disagree with your premise.

Show me "interactive art" and I'll show you a DVD with quick-time events at the very best and a Japanese dating simulator (or worse, eroge game) at worst. They don't qualify as "games" and they're not interesting enough to supplant completely passive forms of entertainment such as the movies they're trying to emulate.

Games are not art...and efforts at art in gaming cease to be games. What's the big knock against Metal Gear Solid, for example? Probably the interminable, unskippable cutscenes interspersed with just enough quick-time events to prevent the player from knocking off to Taco Bell to go have lunch while Kojima's diarrhea of the pen plays out on screen.

There's nothing "interactive" at all about what you're suggesting, and if it WERE that interactive, it'd be a QTE-fest. Either way, it's going to suck.

On the topic of the metal gear games, I agree with you whole heartedly. The cut-scenes were long and arduous (dear god, those communications tended to last for frickin' hours), and the QTE's made them imposable, like you said, to ignore. As many people have complained, it was like Kojima couldn't decide whether they were creating a game or a movie; and THIS was the problem.

You see, too much focus was given to adding story to the game play, or more accurately, to adding game play to the cinematics. Basically, however cinematic the game may have been, it was still a game.

What I was saying was that in the case of Heavy Rain, or similar titles like The Path (scheduled to be released for the PS3, I believe) or Every Day the Same Dream, the developers have made the mistake of referring to it as a "computer game/video game" when in reality, they are NOT technically games, as in an activity where the the subject (being the player) must try to reach a specific objective/goal within certain set rules and parameters. (well, to be honest, I can only speculate what Heavy Rain and The Path are trying to do, as I have yet to play them. Every Day the Same Dream, however, I have played, and thus I can attest that it is not at all a game)

All I am trying to say is that there is a very viable oppertunity for people to use fully interactive software for the purpose of creating art as opposed to just adding story to games. I mean, imagine if the internet wasn't considered a viable form of communication, because it was basically like sending a letter, only with your computer? Imagine that, as a result of this mentality, the internet never grew? This is an extreme comparison, I realize, but if the concept of global communication through the computer never took root, the internet, as we know it, would not exist. Similarly, if we never give interactive artistic expression a chance to take root, it can never grow into something more. And it would all be because people (both gamers and non) would never be able to sever the connection between "interactive video" and "video game."

Also, give Every Day the Same Dream a shot. While not a perfect example of what I mean, you will still find it to be a powerful tool for building emotion, which is the definition of art. And there are no QTE's (err... unless you count the leaf, I suppose, but that part is a really bad example of QTE if you do)

http://www.molleindustria.org/everydaythesamedream/everydaythesamedream.html

If you don't like it, that's fine, but some people don't like water colour art, either. Many people have commented on the original article (alt+escape) that they enjoyed it, many going so far as to say they were wowed. This tells me that this project, for lack of proper definition, was a huge success.

P.S. I am not trying to derail the thread, I only post this link to make a point.

 

[CroutonsOfDeath]

Why is it that if a game has nudity or sex it suddenly deserves a news post? *sigh*

Also, it's not porn unless it shows graphic depictions, and obviously M rated games can't be pornographic so this statement is useless. As far as how they portray it in the game, they might just portray it as an R rated movie might. If its more about sensuality and less about eroticism, it can defy that "Porno" stamp. I'm going to leave now because topics like this burn my brain cells and remind me why I hate Americans.

 

[brodie21]

who cares? its not like im going to play it, i dont have a ps3, but even if i did i probably wouldnt buy it anyway because i have no interest in it. games and cinema are two very different things and from past experience they do not blend very well. while the concept of just having decisions and consequences in a game is intriguing, but it doesnt seem enough to keep someone interested for the duration of the game unless it is only 2-3 hours long. mabye if they implemented it into an rpg like setting and added some other things to keep it fresh....oh, wait thats what bioware is for

 

[brodie21]

So when they say "real characters having emotions and doing what adults do when they fall in love" they must mean people making really stupid decisions, because that's what most of us do in that situation, right? And with the option to quick-save and load, why am I ever going to make a stupid decision?

true, what is stopping the player from just starting the conversation over to mold it to turn out the way they want?

 

[wtrmute]

(...)

For thirty years, the general premise of a video game remained the same; accomplish a goal within certain specific parameters, win the game. From mario and zelda, to Black Isl favs like Baulders Gate and Torment, finally to more fast paced games like Halo or Call of Duty. The parameters might vary, the display might gradually improve, but a game is still a game.

The purpose of said video games have usually been the same, as well: pull the gamers in by attracting one of their stronger positive emotions, like excitement, fear or joy, and then reward their efforts with progress and, eventually, completion, thus giving the player a sense of accomplishment.

Lately, however, some designers have been trying to create games that appeal to more then simple adrenaline and accomplishment. They want to use this fascinating, wholly interactive form of entertainment to tell a story. They want to stir up love, lust, fear, sadness, anger (not frustration, like dying a lot might cause), and any number of varying emotions. They wanted to create immersion.

(...)

Lets all give "Interactive art" a chance.

The problem here, friend, is that this idea is neither new nor revolutionary. "Trying to appeal to more than simple adrenaline and accomplishment" and "using this (...) form of entertainment to tell a story" was the reason Sakaguchi Hirunobu created the original Final Fantasy in 1987. In fact, the kind of mechanism reeks of the old "Interactive movies" that seemed to be most of the output for the Sega CD platform in the 90s, and I thought those games were beyond uninspired, for the most part. For the sake of "stirring up (...) any number of varying emotions", I was pretty moved by several moments in the old Phantasy Stars II, III and IV (1989, 1991 and 1994, respectively), just to give an example.

So forgive me if I'm not standing in line to buy myself a PS3...

 

[Jumplion]

Ok I can understand you being upset. It seems like an attack, but I would like to point out I never said it was porn. It was more of a (possible) misunderstanding about the ambitiousness of the idea. While I presonally don't consider such ero-date sims as games, it still has all of the presented qualities of Heavy Rain, i.e. make decisions and a (slightly)sexual outcome may occur. I was just trying to point out that a similar idea has been done.

Personally, I think of most, if not all video games, as interactive stories, which Heavy Rain definately seems to be trying to progress. It really depends on just what level of story telling this game is going to that makes it ambitious. While I'm not yet sold on the idea, interaction between characters is always the best way for people to understand a character and any action. Even everyday action, can have a beautiful story behind it. If they can do it well, Heavy Rain could be a huge leap towards an age of electronic literature.

Okay, I can admit that I did come on a bit too strong, I apologize if I did. But it did frustrate me when you basically equated a simple sex scene, something that would hardly be out of place on a weekly TV drama of sorts, in Heavy Rain to porn. That's a pretty far stretch considering the circumstances.

It's like, we can show a billion heads exploding, limbs dismembered, and gazillion people being slaughtered by a gunsword, and yet someone the simple mention of a sex scene must be equated to porn? Sadly, it's not exclusive to the "uptight" media as you may thing, as this thread shows. Like these gems;

So no porn?

Well, the Xbox360 was the right choice then.

wet white t-shirt ftw!~

"Lead developer in Heavy Rain has announced the game is not porn...

... retailers report over 60% preorder cancel rate."

 

[akiata]

Okay, I can admit that I did come on a bit too strong, I apologize if I did. But it did frustrate me when you basically equated a simple sex scene, something that would hardly be out of place on a weekly TV drama of sorts, in Heavy Rain to porn. That's a pretty far stretch considering the circumstances.

It's like, we can show a billion heads exploding, limbs dismembered, and gazillion people being slaughtered by a gunsword, and yet someone the simple mention of a sex scene must be equated to porn? Sadly, it's not exclusive to the "uptight" media as you may thing, as this thread shows. Like these gems;

So no porn?

Well, the Xbox360 was the right choice then.

wet white t-shirt ftw!~

"Lead developer in Heavy Rain has announced the game is not porn...

... retailers report over 60% preorder cancel rate."

I agree, it is a far stretch. Was Titanic porn for having a naked actress? Was American Pie porn when 4(i think) pairs of teens had movie sex on camera, under blankets or something? To go back to games, was God of War porn for having digital breasts? Then of course Mass Effect and Dragon Age are in this list of being nonpornographic sexualized entertainment. The problem is over generalization. And while I may have been hasty to simply equate it to those games, it was more of a generalization on its gameplay than anything else.
Besides if people want porn, why spend money on something people give out for free online.

 

[Baneat]

reminds me of choose your own adventure DVDs,

I'll stick with books

 

[Judgement101]

Seriously? Its the same thing you get out of playing God of War or Dante's Inferno. Why were they not critizied in the same way?