Help For a Budding DM: How can I tame my players?

AnAngryMoose

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Nov 12, 2009
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I've recently started a DnD campaign with some friends, all of whom have been interested in it for quite some time. My main problem with them is that they can't focus on the game at all:

-They 'wargame' it, even after me saying that immersion.

-They burst into full-blown conversation when there's the slightest lull in the combat, making it difficult to narrate combat and non-combat encounters. One in particular interrupts narration with completely stupid questions, knowing very well how stupid they are.

-They get distracted easily mid-game. One tends to listen to his iPod, another messes about on his phone and generally acts like a child, refusing to listen when I ask him to pay attention.

Basically, as the title says, I need a way to tame my players and keep them focused on the game. Also, any tips for distinguishing between in-character and out-of-character conversation?

And for the discussion value, do you have any horror stories to share about unruly players in tapletop RPGs, be it as a DM or player?
 

Arluza

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Jan 24, 2011
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I have two bits of advice:

1. the blade of smiting. Take a heavy knife (nothing sharp) and tell the players if they don't STFU as you tell them to, you'll hit them in the shin.

2. BOULDER. take a D6 (a large one if possible) and explain to them that if you have to get on their case, the boulder counter goes up. if it hits 6, then something bad happens in game. Some examples are everyone getting stage 2 Soul Rot (DnD Shadowfell disease, stage 3 they turn to wraiths), or a meteor falls on their battlefield.

As for OoC and IC chat, i find having the players playing things opposite of their normal selves helps (for example, the smart guy is a barbarian)
 

Molly Gupo

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Nov 30, 2010
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When I have players do that, I throw their characters into a fight with something that will hammer their characters. You should keep hitting them until half if not all the party is dead. And the player refusing to listen, make sure you kill his character, because he is challenging your position as a DM.

Any out of character conversation doc xp. Any conversation during fight, doc xp. Anything disruptive doc xp. Take 25% off whatever they are fighting, finding, etc. You can also deduct party earnings. If they start keeping their minds on the games, then give them cookies.

However, do not become a killer DM if that is not your style of play, just use it as a tool to get their attention.

I was running a Deadlands campaign when a Huckster (played by a guy who told a mutual friend he had nothing to worry about because I was a girl GM and never kill characters) told a Reckoner that if it was so bad, to go ahead and kill him. Thirty seconds and 20d20 of nogging damage later, he was drawing up a new character.
 

Lil_Rimmy

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Mar 19, 2011
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Yeah, I recently started playing my own type of DnD, using the Warhammer 40k units. I pretty much wrote up the rules and told a bunch of people about it. I thought only about 2 of my close mates might be at all interested, and then BOOM, I had about 8 people who I thought would have been like "Oh hey a nerds game!" and they are actually really into it (e.g. Not being stupid about it.)

I have a few problems though.

1. Due to the fact that these are WarHammer 40k units, and they have to be glued together, and no one can resist making gang-rape scenes with them, they get broken very easily. Now, what I have done is say no one can touch them but me, but, well that is a kind of dick head move. I want them to move their character.

2. Packing and unpacking.... As I take my set of WarHammer to school to play, I have to pack and unpack EVERY SINGLE TIME. Sorry, just venting.

3. GOD DAMN PSYKERS! And by that I mean one of my players (a psyker) keeps getting sad cause he fails at a lotta shit. I'm not kidding, whenever he tries to roll a psyker power, he is either knocked out, driven insane or just fails to cast it. He just has REALLY bad luck.

4. The plot won't settle down. See, I wanna give them free choice on what to do. But the problem is that they get a little bored of nothing happening, so I always have to have portals and someone being stabbed while the Inquisition flies down and steals our psyker and doggies.


/angryDMrant
 

aPod

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Jan 14, 2010
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Shouldn't it be about having fun.

If they aren't having fun it's only natural that they'll try to do something to make things more entertaining for themselves.
 

Flailing Escapist

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Apr 13, 2011
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Kick them in the dice!
Show them that they aren't hot shit and that they need to pay attention and work together to survive!
 

FalloutJack

Bah weep grah nah neep ninny bom
Nov 20, 2008
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bussinrounds said:
Find some ppl that are actually into it. It works alot better if everyone focuses all they're attention on the game, and is genuinely excited about the adventure.

Not just half assing it, and are only there because they're friends are playing too.
What he said. Get new players.
 

trooper6

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Jul 26, 2008
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bussinrounds said:
Find some ppl that are actually into it. It works alot better if everyone focuses all they're attention on the game, and is genuinely excited about the adventure.

Not just half assing it, and are only there because they're friends are playing too.
This is really important advice.


Anyway, I'll give you two threads of advice.

A) Current Situation--

1) Have you told your players what sort of behavior you expect? Tell them see if that works. If it doesn't work,
2) Tell your players straight up that the game isn't fun for you because it doesn't seem like they are into game. Then tell them you are canceling the game and you'll restart when you get a group of players who are a bit more focuses and serious...if anyone in the current group thinks they might be one of those people they can email you.

Then cancel the game and get new players. Preferably mature and respectful ones.

Once you restart the game, here is some advice.
B) Future Game Advice--

1) Give your game a specific time frame. I usually go with 10-12 sessions. (Imagine the game like a season of a TV show). Get a commitment from your players for those 10-12 sessions. Say that afterwards, the game may continue on for another season if everyone is into it, or you might run a different campaign, or someone else could GM a season of a campaign. Having a fixed end date makes the game seem a bit more precious and helps focus attention.
2) Figure out a good schedule. Once a week might be too frequent for your players. Find out how often they can realistically commit to. I find once every two weeks to be ideal...but I've played in very good once a month games. This also makes each game a bit more special and helps focus.
3) Rolemodel good behavior. Don't be late and don't you go onto too many tangents
4) Build in social time. I usually do this by having the whole gang go to dinner after game is over. So, normally I'd game on a Saturday, noon to 5 or 6. After game, then we all go to dinner (or order pizza) and do all the social talking we want. Allowing for social time allows for more focus during the game.
5) Start of game ritual. There is always a bit of chatter before game starts. I like to call the game to order by doing the same thing everytime. I start by asking one of the players to recap what happened last session, then I ask the players if they want to spend any of their experience points (I run GURPS rather than D&D). That process engages everyone and symbolically starts the game.
6) If I want my players to be invested in the game, for me, it always comes down to character creation (which is why I run games with detailed and diverse character creation like GURPS or Vampire, etc). I try to make sure all the PCs have a sense of history and drama within them (someone has amnesia, someone has an enemy, someone had a fiance) something that connects the PCs to the world. I also want them all to have personal goals (someone wants to become a knight, someone wants to earn enough money to buy a ship). If the players only see their PCs as a bunch of combat statistics, they don't invest as much, and then they'll start to wander. So I try to make sure there are non-combat hooks that make them invest. If they have only played hack'n'slash D&D, this might be hard to get them to do. Try anyway. But if they are resistant, here is a cheat. Introduce a rival group that they can't kill without consequence who try to show them up and look bad. Maybe the King's son fancies himself an adventurer and has a party and they are also out adventuring. You don't want this other group to be better and always ruin their plans. But having this other group spread gossip about the PCs in the town. Or rescue someone first (one time). Just to make them feel like they've got rivals they want to take down. That helps.
7) Always have there be consequences for all actions (both positive and negative). Once you give them non-combat results, that can generate some non-combat interest.
8) Try to have a good gaming environment free of distractions. Don't have the stereo going, or the TV on, or the Xbox. Try to have the players sit around a table facing each other rather than lounging on couches.

Anyhow, looking at your profile, it looks like you are around 17. Make sure you have mature players who are really there to game rather than who are just hanging out.

Last thing: this is a tip from experience as a teacher. If they start going off on tangents, listening to an iPod, whatever. Wait. Don't talk. Just wait. Look at the offending people and just wait. If they want to play, they'll knock it off and you can game. If one of them won't knock it off, and the others want to play, they will put peer pressure on...which works better because some folks always feel the need to resist authority. If none of them knock it off, then you know they don't want to play, and that is the last game you GM for them.

And really a last thing. Perhaps you might want to try running a different system. One that allows for more interesting PCs and perhaps less of an emphasis on combat as war game. GURPS is my fave system, but you can try lots of different systems, including a bunch of free ones. Maybe try something a bit rules lite, like:
FUDGE, PDQ (Prose Descriptive Qualities), or RISUS.

Maybe a change in system will help.

Good luck!
 

FrostyChick

Little Miss Vampire.
Jul 13, 2010
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AnAngryMoose said:
I've recently started a DnD campaign with some friends, all of whom have been interested in it for quite some time. My main problem with them is that they can't focus on the game at all:

-They 'wargame' it, even after me saying that immersion.
What I tend to find works is, give incentive to roleplaying. In otherwords, reward roleplaying and punish metagaming. The system I tend to use a lot is Savage worlds, and it actually has rules for the first part. The latter, I would recommend actively enforcing the idea that the players can only act on what their characters know, not what they know.

-They burst into full-blown conversation when there's the slightest lull in the combat, making it difficult to narrate combat and non-combat encounters. One in particular interrupts narration with completely stupid questions, knowing very well how stupid they are.
Generally this is the point where you pull a "rocks fall...", depending on the situation, something nasty happens. It doesn't have to be death or even all that threatening, just something to keep them on their toes. As for the stupid questions, either try and anticipate them and prepare equally stupid answer or make it that the NPCs generally look at this guy as an idiot and ignore him.

-They get distracted easily mid-game. One tends to listen to his iPod, another messes about on his phone and generally acts like a child, refusing to listen when I ask him to pay attention.
If he isn't paying attention, his character isn't either. Just make him fail any reflex saves when he isn't paying attention, he'll soon learn.

Basically, as the title says, I need a way to tame my players and keep them focused on the game. Also, any tips for distinguishing between in-character and out-of-character conversation?

And for the discussion value, do you have any horror stories to share about unruly players in tapletop RPGs, be it as a DM or player?
Hopefully that should help, it works with mine anyway.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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Sep 15, 2010
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AnAngryMoose said:
-They burst into full-blown conversation when there's the slightest lull in the combat, making it difficult to narrate combat and non-combat encounters. One in particular interrupts narration with completely stupid questions, knowing very well how stupid they are.

-They get distracted easily mid-game. One tends to listen to his iPod, another messes about on his phone and generally acts like a child, refusing to listen when I ask him to pay attention.

Basically, as the title says, I need a way to tame my players and keep them focused on the game. Also, any tips for distinguishing between in-character and out-of-character conversation?
What version of D&D are you playing? 4E? Pathfinder? 3.5? If you're in Pathfinder or 3.5 there's a really cool method of keeping the players paying attention even during enemy turns, but it doesn't work in 4E.

Tips:
1) Take away all phones, laptops iPods, handhelds, etc. Put them in a box.

2) Any OOC conversation requires them to place their hand upon their head. If they talk OOC without doing this, you assume they said it in character and act accordingly. If they're sneaking, then they just willing blew sneak checks. If in battle, any enemies that speak common should be able to respond (remember, talking is a Free action). This isn't harsh as much as it really annoys players. (purely mechanical stuff like "I rolled a 23" is the obvious exception)

3) No food or drink at the table. This isn't something I normally do, but if your players aren't cooperating, then it might be necessary.
 

Blue_vision

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Mar 31, 2009
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aPod said:
Shouldn't it be about having fun.

If they aren't having fun it's only natural that they'll try to do something to make things more entertaining for themselves.
I was thinking that. You're allowed to piss around in a DnD game, as long as everyone's having fun, then what's the problem? And if the game's not running well, you're not going to improve anyone's fun-having experience by forcing them to play "properly."
 

Mr Thin

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Apr 4, 2010
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I feel your pain, dude, though I've been on the other end of it.

Despite my DM being the one who organised us to play, he spent most of the sessions dicking around on his laptop, happy to let the rest of us chat and wander off-topic. Practically nothing happened every session, it sucked.

It sounds like they just want something different out of the game than you. You want to play, they want to use it as an excuse to socialise. While I have nothing against socialisers, it's not what I'm looking for in a D&D party, and it sounds like you aren't either. Try and find some actual players, hard as that may be.

Or, read the Check For Traps series on this website; I've never been a DM, but I enjoy reading them, and they sound really helpful.
 

Souldead341

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Nov 25, 2008
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Yeah, refuse to allow any non required electronics at the table. If you need a laptop or something fine, as long as it's only for the game but the phones and music devices get turned off.

Also, set a timeline for the session. Play for say 45 minutes and then have a 10 minute break, and make sure the players know this. For combat, institute a time limit per turn. If the player hasn't at least started to figure what they're doing (spellcasters tend to take longer) then they lose that turn. If things get better you can be a bit more lenient, but be careful since it can then spiral back out of control.

As for the wargaming, I would talk to the players. If they want the for rpg experience, then encourage them to focus on the game more, and as previously said reward RPing with xp. If they just want to fight things, I would ditch the campaign idea and set them up as specialists or mercenaries with an army. Each session they would have a goal, like a MMO quest, with rewards if they succeed. If you've got it, the 3.x book The Complete Warrior has charts and rules for this type of campaign.
 

geK0

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Jun 24, 2011
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Drug their drinks with Ritalin!! jkjk

Ask them if they're really that interested in the game; if the are, politely tell them to take it a bit more seriously so you can get more done in a session. Don't be too anal about it though, some chit chat is acceptable, just speak up when you feel the session is being derailed.
 

uzo

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Jul 5, 2011
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'300' is basically an example of a D&D game that's been hijacked by combat freaks. I'm gonna write it in Forgotten Realms setting and you'll see what I mean:


The DM sets it up ... an IMMENSE army of the Persians is on the way. The players are Leonidas et al. The DM begins the game - and announces that a Persian diplomat is coming to negotiate. The diplomat - a non-combatant - comes unarmed before Leonidas, and clearly states that the Persians don't want to fight - they're just after a token; a state gift.

So the player who is Leonidas promptly kills a DIPLOMAT and orders the rest of the party to butcher the diplomatic detachment. Then he marches off preparing for war.

The DM has the Oracle announce the players will fall if they fight Persia. Leonidas ignores this. The Athenians withdraw support from the battle - and Leonidas ignores this. The DM sees this is getting more out of control and now announces the Persian army is 1,000,000 strong vs the player's 300. Leonidas STILL ignores this.

I'm sure even as the battle begins, the DM is hoping they'll try and negotiate. Nope. As the first flurry of d20 rolls kick in he facepalms. The battles continue, and continue, and continue. The DM throws everything he can against them, short of outright killing them or bending the rules too far, in an effort to make them break. Even Xerxes himself negotiates with Leonidas (who STILL ignores this).

So, now thoroughly pissed off that his highly political campaign (the chick playing the wife of Leonidas has been enjoying that part of the game) has been railroaded (by the players no less!) into a combat fest, the DM announces that Xerxes will use his archers to cut the players down where they stand. AND THEY STILL FIGHT!!!? As Leonidas drops into the negative HP; I can imagine the DMs face mirrors that of Xerxes - 'why didn't you fucking listen?'.

The morale of the story - give the players what they want. And then kill them all.

EDIT: It's like .. seriously .. some mob of lvl 10 adventurers should not ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever be able to kill even a young adult dragon. Ever.

EDIT EDIT: Oh, forgot to put it in Forgotten Realms. Change 'Persia' to 'Amn' and 'Athens' to 'Neverwinter'. There.
 

L4Y Duke

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Nov 24, 2007
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From what I've read, try Paranoia. Basically, it's a game where the average character lifespan is around 5 turns.

Linky [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Paranoia]
 

Baradiel

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Mar 4, 2009
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Kneecap them. Seriously, that'll make them do what you want. If what you want is them writhing on the floor in agony.

If not... strong words? Idk.
 

Sebenko

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Dec 23, 2008
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From what I've been in, the best option is to make things fukken hells yeah awesome 24/7.

Dunno how you'd manage that with D+D. With a Serenity game I was in, on the other hand...

Also, we were handed a ship and simply let loose.
Don't think we ever left a planet peacefuly. Every. Freaking. Time.
 

leon32

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Jun 1, 2009
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trooper6 said:
bussinrounds said:
Find some ppl that are actually into it. It works alot better if everyone focuses all they're attention on the game, and is genuinely excited about the adventure.

Not just half assing it, and are only there because they're friends are playing too.
This is really important advice.


Anyway, I'll give you two threads of advice.

A) Current Situation--

1) Have you told your players what sort of behavior you expect? Tell them see if that works. If it doesn't work,
2) Tell your players straight up that the game isn't fun for you because it doesn't seem like they are into game. Then tell them you are canceling the game and you'll restart when you get a group of players who are a bit more focuses and serious...if anyone in the current group thinks they might be one of those people they can email you.

Then cancel the game and get new players. Preferably mature and respectful ones.

Once you restart the game, here is some advice.
B) Future Game Advice--

1) Give your game a specific time frame. I usually go with 10-12 sessions. (Imagine the game like a season of a TV show). Get a commitment from your players for those 10-12 sessions. Say that afterwards, the game may continue on for another season if everyone is into it, or you might run a different campaign, or someone else could GM a season of a campaign. Having a fixed end date makes the game seem a bit more precious and helps focus attention.
2) Figure out a good schedule. Once a week might be too frequent for your players. Find out how often they can realistically commit to. I find once every two weeks to be ideal...but I've played in very good once a month games. This also makes each game a bit more special and helps focus.
3) Rolemodel good behavior. Don't be late and don't you go onto too many tangents
4) Build in social time. I usually do this by having the whole gang go to dinner after game is over. So, normally I'd game on a Saturday, noon to 5 or 6. After game, then we all go to dinner (or order pizza) and do all the social talking we want. Allowing for social time allows for more focus during the game.
5) Start of game ritual. There is always a bit of chatter before game starts. I like to call the game to order by doing the same thing everytime. I start by asking one of the players to recap what happened last session, then I ask the players if they want to spend any of their experience points (I run GURPS rather than D&D). That process engages everyone and symbolically starts the game.
6) If I want my players to be invested in the game, for me, it always comes down to character creation (which is why I run games with detailed and diverse character creation like GURPS or Vampire, etc). I try to make sure all the PCs have a sense of history and drama within them (someone has amnesia, someone has an enemy, someone had a fiance) something that connects the PCs to the world. I also want them all to have personal goals (someone wants to become a knight, someone wants to earn enough money to buy a ship). If the players only see their PCs as a bunch of combat statistics, they don't invest as much, and then they'll start to wander. So I try to make sure there are non-combat hooks that make them invest. If they have only played hack'n'slash D&D, this might be hard to get them to do. Try anyway. But if they are resistant, here is a cheat. Introduce a rival group that they can't kill without consequence who try to show them up and look bad. Maybe the King's son fancies himself an adventurer and has a party and they are also out adventuring. You don't want this other group to be better and always ruin their plans. But having this other group spread gossip about the PCs in the town. Or rescue someone first (one time). Just to make them feel like they've got rivals they want to take down. That helps.
7) Always have there be consequences for all actions (both positive and negative). Once you give them non-combat results, that can generate some non-combat interest.
8) Try to have a good gaming environment free of distractions. Don't have the stereo going, or the TV on, or the Xbox. Try to have the players sit around a table facing each other rather than lounging on couches.

Anyhow, looking at your profile, it looks like you are around 17. Make sure you have mature players who are really there to game rather than who are just hanging out.

Last thing: this is a tip from experience as a teacher. If they start going off on tangents, listening to an iPod, whatever. Wait. Don't talk. Just wait. Look at the offending people and just wait. If they want to play, they'll knock it off and you can game. If one of them won't knock it off, and the others want to play, they will put peer pressure on...which works better because some folks always feel the need to resist authority. If none of them knock it off, then you know they don't want to play, and that is the last game you GM for them.

And really a last thing. Perhaps you might want to try running a different system. One that allows for more interesting PCs and perhaps less of an emphasis on combat as war game. GURPS is my fave system, but you can try lots of different systems, including a bunch of free ones. Maybe try something a bit rules lite, like:
FUDGE, PDQ (Prose Descriptive Qualities), or RISUS.

Maybe a change in system will help.

Good luck!


gotta say i do quite agree with what you said if their into the game and want to play eventually a lot of the out of character stuff will just become a part of it and wont be quite the maelstrom of sheer annoyance you have to put up with but basically never resort to being a bully it may work for a little while but eventually your players are going to resent you: a lot.

and as for the qoute while i do agree I've gotta say it seems like you haven't really played much D&D if your think its just nothing more than petty hack and slash without much depth, I've personally had a lot of experience with 3.5 giving an immense amount of depth to the games and the characters though it does all depend on who your with, the GM and basically just how long your going to be carrying this around lol