Help me defend us!
- Thread starter MrGalactus
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How does he feel about horror? If he's a fan then Amnesia is an absolute must, hell me and my flatmates treated the experience of playing it like a book. Wait till dark, turn off the lights, play an hour each. Terrifying.
I happen to be writing a blog piece about how I think videogames have the potential to be far superior narrative devices in comparison to films and books and whatnot actually, so would you like me to send you a link to the blog once I've done? 
Anyways, I would actually recommend Red Dead Redemption - the narrative involves a lot of nuances and metaphors about the Old West, and how the protagonist is deeply connected with the dying ways of the West, etc. I won't go into too much detail since you haven't played it yet (you should, though!)
Actually, Grand Theft Auto IV also has such deep narrative too; I'd say going with the unexpected, stereotypically violent videogames and showing how they actually have surprisingly deep stories and such might be a good approach. :3
Anyways, I would actually recommend Red Dead Redemption - the narrative involves a lot of nuances and metaphors about the Old West, and how the protagonist is deeply connected with the dying ways of the West, etc. I won't go into too much detail since you haven't played it yet
(you should, though!)Actually, Grand Theft Auto IV also has such deep narrative too; I'd say going with the unexpected, stereotypically violent videogames and showing how they actually have surprisingly deep stories and such might be a good approach. :3
I'm shocked that nobody's said Mass Effect yet (cue the post directly above me after I post this saying it). It's a story about combat so at it's core it is about violence, but the same can be said for a lot of great stories in films and TV shows and quite a few in books.
If you think that the simple act of shooting will bias your dad's judgement then try Neverwinter Nights. To enjoy it he'll need to understand at least the basics of D&D rules (no idea what edition but I don't think it matters, it's the truly basic stuff you need to be able to play competantly) but if you do that it's a fun and engaging story. Also it's got swords and bows, so its got that "similar to Lord of the Rings" vibe that helps people see past the combat. Just make sure you turn the violence to low or off in the options, otherwise you'll have trolls exploding over you when they die. Hilarious, but hardly helpful to the argument.
Do note that both these games are long and will take several days or even weeks, depending on playtie per day, to complete.
If you think that the simple act of shooting will bias your dad's judgement then try Neverwinter Nights. To enjoy it he'll need to understand at least the basics of D&D rules (no idea what edition but I don't think it matters, it's the truly basic stuff you need to be able to play competantly) but if you do that it's a fun and engaging story. Also it's got swords and bows, so its got that "similar to Lord of the Rings" vibe that helps people see past the combat. Just make sure you turn the violence to low or off in the options, otherwise you'll have trolls exploding over you when they die. Hilarious, but hardly helpful to the argument.
Do note that both these games are long and will take several days or even weeks, depending on playtie per day, to complete.
You could try to jump right into a game, in which case I would recommend Heavy Rain (outside of having a great story, it's one of the few games that isn't all about violence, so it would simply work better in convincing him than an action game with a great story), but I think your best option would be to rely on a few arguments to soften him up first.
One thing I would recommend is a few smaller arguments. A good starter would be asking him why video games would be incapable of the same level of storytelling; a short discussion with him trying to explain why games couldn't tell good stories would lead to some gaping flaws in his logic pretty quick.
But one thing that could shut him up pretty quick is something as simple as menu music. Menu music is what sets the mood, it's the first thing the player will be hearing, so it's largely up to it to set a first impression. Check out the menu music for a given Final Fantasy game; if video games are all pointless blood and violence, why is this song playing?
<youtube=WPx3h5bwXVQ>
Heck, consider Halo, a first-person shooter all about shooting up aliens within an awesome sci-fi war story. It's often stereotyped as a shallow shoot-em-up. So why would Bungie think the best way to represent a non-stop action-fest is this music?
<youtube=R9crGX-MbZk>
Obviously there is something more to this.
Then show him some stuff like Extra Credits, or sites like Binary Narrative and The Game Overthinker. There are great arguments out there that can only be refuted by willful ignorance.
The fact is, some people just never will be into gaming. Maybe your dad will be, but the goal here should not get him to like gaming, it should be to get him to understand its value even if he does not personally enjoy it. Discussion and examples will work better in this case, I think.
EDIT: If you end up using Heavy Rain and playing it for him, make sure to have him make the decisions. It's a lot more effective that way, when he sees the weight his decisions have on the story. Worked for my mom, that's for sure.
One thing I would recommend is a few smaller arguments. A good starter would be asking him why video games would be incapable of the same level of storytelling; a short discussion with him trying to explain why games couldn't tell good stories would lead to some gaping flaws in his logic pretty quick.
But one thing that could shut him up pretty quick is something as simple as menu music. Menu music is what sets the mood, it's the first thing the player will be hearing, so it's largely up to it to set a first impression. Check out the menu music for a given Final Fantasy game; if video games are all pointless blood and violence, why is this song playing?
<youtube=WPx3h5bwXVQ>
Heck, consider Halo, a first-person shooter all about shooting up aliens within an awesome sci-fi war story. It's often stereotyped as a shallow shoot-em-up. So why would Bungie think the best way to represent a non-stop action-fest is this music?
<youtube=R9crGX-MbZk>
Obviously there is something more to this.
Then show him some stuff like Extra Credits, or sites like Binary Narrative and The Game Overthinker. There are great arguments out there that can only be refuted by willful ignorance.
The fact is, some people just never will be into gaming. Maybe your dad will be, but the goal here should not get him to like gaming, it should be to get him to understand its value even if he does not personally enjoy it. Discussion and examples will work better in this case, I think.
EDIT: If you end up using Heavy Rain and playing it for him, make sure to have him make the decisions. It's a lot more effective that way, when he sees the weight his decisions have on the story. Worked for my mom, that's for sure.
You need to strike a balance. You also need to keep in mind that odds are good the last video game experience he had was on 8-bit. I would strongly recommend Braid. Superficially simple, very accessible, tight game play, but with many layers of depth to it. Plus it's not that hard, and it has a great ending.
Alternatively, portal. Go with portal 1. Portal 2 was tricky in parts. You want this to be as painless as possible for him in order to allow immersion.
Alternatively, portal. Go with portal 1. Portal 2 was tricky in parts. You want this to be as painless as possible for him in order to allow immersion.
The new Donkey Country on the Wii is co-op and now violent, portal 2 as well.
Also Lego Pirate of the Caribbean/Harry Potter are really fun co-op games
Also Lego Pirate of the Caribbean/Harry Potter are really fun co-op games
maybe Chrono trigger or HL2 (although HL2 is a 18+ game it doesn't focuses itself on violence and gore)
also Portal 2
also Portal 2
If he likes sci-fi then I'd say go to Mass Effect. Yeah, you might need to help a bit to get used to the RPG elements, but if he can do that then the story is worthwhile.
If he likes puzzles go for Portal. He'd see that games can provide food for thought and have witty dialog.
Also, Red Dead Redemption would be good, especially if he likes Westerns (like my own dad) and if he sticks to the main story he'll be in for a treat. The ending makes it worthwhile, so you'd have to make sure he reaches the end.
If he likes puzzles go for Portal. He'd see that games can provide food for thought and have witty dialog.
Also, Red Dead Redemption would be good, especially if he likes Westerns (like my own dad) and if he sticks to the main story he'll be in for a treat. The ending makes it worthwhile, so you'd have to make sure he reaches the end.
Personally, since he sees games as only violent, have him play Portal 1. Portal 2 has some lines that he may just use against gaming.
If he realises that there can be a story behind violence and such, and he appreciates in-depth stories, I'd get him to play Dragon Age: Origins (Provided you are on a PC) or Mass Effect 1. Though both these games have sequels, the story writing in these sequels is substantially weaker than that in the originals.
Make sure, whatever you do, that you get games that do not have horribly clunky gameplay on your platform of choice, have a level of violence and rude/offensive remarks that he won't find offensive, and a strong story. Then, you might have a case.
Also, if he really doesn't mind violence that much at all, have him play Bioshock 1. Don't tell him the twist, don't let him google it. Have him find out by playing the game. The moment you find out what has really been going on throughout the game, its one of those 'wow' moments, and is a fair shock to anyone's system, if they were immersed in the game.
If he realises that there can be a story behind violence and such, and he appreciates in-depth stories, I'd get him to play Dragon Age: Origins (Provided you are on a PC) or Mass Effect 1. Though both these games have sequels, the story writing in these sequels is substantially weaker than that in the originals.
Make sure, whatever you do, that you get games that do not have horribly clunky gameplay on your platform of choice, have a level of violence and rude/offensive remarks that he won't find offensive, and a strong story. Then, you might have a case.
Also, if he really doesn't mind violence that much at all, have him play Bioshock 1. Don't tell him the twist, don't let him google it. Have him find out by playing the game. The moment you find out what has really been going on throughout the game, its one of those 'wow' moments, and is a fair shock to anyone's system, if they were immersed in the game.
You ave a PS2, and your first choice isn't Shadow of the Colossus or Ico? Come on. Anyway, Portal, Portal 2, Okami, possibly Ico (that may be a tad abstract, so maybe not), I'll go ahead and say Metal Gear Solid 3 (despite the fighting, since it's a James Bond esque spy thriller), Braid, Outland (again, some puzzle-like combat, but artistic and stylized), Rez (do that one, do that one), and do Silent Hill (make him shit his pants. Fear is one of the most basic and primal emotions, so it's effective). Prince of Persia 2008 (all combat is bloodless, kind of a puzzle, and actially fairly rare).THEJORRRG said:
Apologies if some of my descriptions were on games you've played; I don't know what you have or haven't played, so I'm assumig none of these for an easier time.
ok, before anything else, you've got a major problem. non-gamers SUCK at video games. have you ever watched someone who's never played a video game try to do something as simple as walking around a town in an average 3rd person 3d game? it's physically painful.
so unfortunately, i would suggest an NES game. a true classic such as SMB or megaman 2, maybe even metroid if you're feeling fancy. then at least the only issue is difficulty, not frustration at being unable to do anything right. theses game do have great artistic merits, so dont worry about that.
for the record, Red Dead is an amazing game even though most missions are in fact shootout after shootout, but its the context they fit in and the open Western world that truly makes it something beautiful. but it will probably take your Dad about 2 weeks to master controlling the camera while walking at the same time and his patience will run out long before then.
so unfortunately, i would suggest an NES game. a true classic such as SMB or megaman 2, maybe even metroid if you're feeling fancy. then at least the only issue is difficulty, not frustration at being unable to do anything right. theses game do have great artistic merits, so dont worry about that.
for the record, Red Dead is an amazing game even though most missions are in fact shootout after shootout, but its the context they fit in and the open Western world that truly makes it something beautiful. but it will probably take your Dad about 2 weeks to master controlling the camera while walking at the same time and his patience will run out long before then.
...Okay, I'll assume since he hates games, he has not played any. If he has, I will be under the assumption that he hasn't since like...the early 80s. So...here's some games I think would fit the bill.
Fallout 1 or 2: They're mostly mouse oriented, so the controls are not that difficult to master. Context sensitivity is very win. The stats are easy to understand so he won't get lost in heavy RPGing. The stories are very interesting, the background is very rich and engaging, it shows the best and worst of the human condition. He may also like the quirky 50s take on the future if he's anything like my dad and likes the old school movies <_<
Call of Cthulu: Dark Corners of the Earth: Yes, it's lovecraftian horror and what not, but it's really not too -terribly- violent. I think the story is done quite well. It has relevant twists, and wonderful pacing. Though it has a few technical issues. The game I think would be a perfect fit, it's easy to get in to, and it can prove that a game isn't valueless, as it has the same effect on your mind as a movie can. Proof of concept wins the day.
Knights of the Old Republic: It's long, but like the other 2, it has a great story, with one of the best plot twists ever. Also it's Star Wars. He should like Star Wars. And the leveling can shittily be set to auto. >.> but...it's also not too difficult to understand. Who knows.
SYSTEM shock 2: Rather than bioshock, i'll go one better. ...Not..much really needs to be said, though is may be violent enough for him to write it off.
Kingdom Hearts: I am going to burn my face off for suggesting it, but ...damn it, it fits. Kingdom Hearts has a very good story for being a not to violent game. It's also not confusing to play at all, and very simplistic to get in to. I think out of every game I have mentioned this one may fit the bill the best.
Half-Life 1: It's less actiony than 2, but the story I believe is just as good. I'm trying not to be monotonous, so i'll end that there.
And with the monotony mentioned, i'll just list the rest.
Chrono Trigger
Grim Fandango
The Longest Journey
The Experiment
Final Fantasy 6
aaaand that's all I can think of after work. ...One of those should be good enough.
EDIT: also everyone who said minecraft. ...Why? That's like just saying "WHat? games are nothing but violent time wasters you say?! HERESY, play this non-violent time waster it just proves I'm right. Gosh....some people"
Fallout 1 or 2: They're mostly mouse oriented, so the controls are not that difficult to master. Context sensitivity is very win. The stats are easy to understand so he won't get lost in heavy RPGing. The stories are very interesting, the background is very rich and engaging, it shows the best and worst of the human condition. He may also like the quirky 50s take on the future if he's anything like my dad and likes the old school movies <_<
Call of Cthulu: Dark Corners of the Earth: Yes, it's lovecraftian horror and what not, but it's really not too -terribly- violent. I think the story is done quite well. It has relevant twists, and wonderful pacing. Though it has a few technical issues. The game I think would be a perfect fit, it's easy to get in to, and it can prove that a game isn't valueless, as it has the same effect on your mind as a movie can. Proof of concept wins the day.
Knights of the Old Republic: It's long, but like the other 2, it has a great story, with one of the best plot twists ever. Also it's Star Wars. He should like Star Wars. And the leveling can shittily be set to auto. >.> but...it's also not too difficult to understand. Who knows.
SYSTEM shock 2: Rather than bioshock, i'll go one better. ...Not..much really needs to be said, though is may be violent enough for him to write it off.
Kingdom Hearts: I am going to burn my face off for suggesting it, but ...damn it, it fits. Kingdom Hearts has a very good story for being a not to violent game. It's also not confusing to play at all, and very simplistic to get in to. I think out of every game I have mentioned this one may fit the bill the best.
Half-Life 1: It's less actiony than 2, but the story I believe is just as good. I'm trying not to be monotonous, so i'll end that there.
And with the monotony mentioned, i'll just list the rest.
Chrono Trigger
Grim Fandango
The Longest Journey
The Experiment
Final Fantasy 6
aaaand that's all I can think of after work. ...One of those should be good enough.
EDIT: also everyone who said minecraft. ...Why? That's like just saying "WHat? games are nothing but violent time wasters you say?! HERESY, play this non-violent time waster it just proves I'm right. Gosh....some people"
Mass Effect could be a good choice, but he'd have to sink several hours into it before reaching nirvana. Others have said the Portal games, which would be the best bet, in my opinion, as they're not very violent, have a fantastic story, and are just generally worthwhile; they also aren't too long, which is a plus if he's impatient.