Here's an idea: Let's disband Anonymous.
- Thread starter FalloutJack
- Start date
It is my understanding that to be human is to be Anonymous. To borrow a term you used, at any given moment any person can just "put on a Guy Fawkes mask" and become Anonymous, whether or not that mask is a literal one or simply being another face in the crowd or even just being at home on their computer, hidden safely behind seven proxies.
That's my catchy tshirt-worthy slogan that I'll claim here, To Be Human Is To Be Anonymous, and humanity is a mixed bag no matter how you look at it. Anonymous is neither good nor bad, just as Humanity is neither good nor bad. Both are equally capable of truly glorious moments and some equally hideous atrocities.
And you can no more disband Anonymous than you could The Human Race. Granted, you may have already heard that before.
That's my catchy tshirt-worthy slogan that I'll claim here, To Be Human Is To Be Anonymous, and humanity is a mixed bag no matter how you look at it. Anonymous is neither good nor bad, just as Humanity is neither good nor bad. Both are equally capable of truly glorious moments and some equally hideous atrocities.
And you can no more disband Anonymous than you could The Human Race. Granted, you may have already heard that before.
Can someone explain to me what the hell OP is talking about? Being anonymous and forming groups are basic rights in all western nations that I can think of. There is no such thing as a right to be a group either.
Yeah I agree! While we're at it lets disband terrorism groups and lets stop using regenerating health bars....I don't like those so much.
In all seriousness. Only Anonymous can disband Anonymous, and they havn't yet so I assume they disagree with your idea.
In all seriousness. Only Anonymous can disband Anonymous, and they havn't yet so I assume they disagree with your idea.
Gladly. Though it'll be kinda of hard to tell if it has actually happened.FalloutJack said:
Anyone who says they are anonymous basically are. That's kind of the idea. the idea is that it is everyone, its a have mind of the faceless masses.
So Basically this
I'm part of anonymous.
We are disbanding.
While the first statement is immediately true. the second doesn't cover all of anonymous. So while some might disband it can never really disband.
So basically as soon as they say they're disbanding, the statement becomes false.
......The more I think about it, the more it becomes a fucking riddle
So yeah.... I'll buy you drinks when they disband lol
Hey now, I didn't mean like that. C'mon, I knew going in that not everyone was gonna like this thread, even said so up front, but there's some realism to be had here. I mean, if Anonymous holds one of its big ole' announcements - the kind they use to point out their next big thing - to say like they need to rethink their gameplan and thus will disband, then I want drinks, dammit!xplay3r said:
I know they have to realize that what they wanted and what they are...are still two different things. If we're taking everything from V For Vendetta, then you have to remember...V had a plan, an end-game, and a goal. He knew precisely what he was doing. Anonymous...I'm sure can mean well (or at least some of their numbers), but they are the numberless and the directionless with only a vague focus and no real idea how to get there. It's harsh of me to say so, but I can't ignore it. We're not ready for Alan Moore's take on anarchy and Anon is not ready to deliver it.
I do not agree with Anonymous with regards to what they did with the Playstation network, but I do agree with their prospective destruction of facebook.
Why? Because I don't care about facebook. I do care about Playstation.
Shouting at an entity without a face is redundant. Whatever organization Anonymous has we obviously cannot see, therefore it is difficult to consider a way to disband such a group.
Sure, they may be making our decisions for us, but I think they are giving some very good reasons as to why they are doing what they do.
Call me an idiot, but I think that it is nice to have a group of activists standing for the right to privacy.
Let's face it, these guys are more effective and proactive than the United Nations. Say what you will about Anonymous, but they get things done.
All joking aside, I hope that they manage to succeed in the facebook endeavor.
Why? Because I don't care about facebook. I do care about Playstation.
Shouting at an entity without a face is redundant. Whatever organization Anonymous has we obviously cannot see, therefore it is difficult to consider a way to disband such a group.
Sure, they may be making our decisions for us, but I think they are giving some very good reasons as to why they are doing what they do.
Call me an idiot, but I think that it is nice to have a group of activists standing for the right to privacy.
Let's face it, these guys are more effective and proactive than the United Nations. Say what you will about Anonymous, but they get things done.
All joking aside, I hope that they manage to succeed in the facebook endeavor.
FalloutJack said:
hey I can't argue with that. I think the need a better goal then "lets mess stuff up that we don't like" whether I agree with some of their actions or not (and yes I agree with SOME of them) but my point is no one can make that decision except every single individual who claims to be anonymous agrees with it. Otherwise you just have a schism of the group and then nothing gets done.
Ah, but here's the beauty of it. If said announcement happens, if Anonymous is seen to collectively bow out, then they sort of enforce their own venture into obscurity. You can't have it both gone AND remaining. Anything that stays behind isn't Anonymous. It's leftovers, a shadow on the wall. Everyone who's left doesn't have the same morale highground. They're the people that drag the name through the mud. You scythe through them like so much wheat, and they can't even back the same defense.xplay3r said:
Quite possibly the most moronic statement made so far... You go ahead and ignore them, I'm sure they'll stop what they're doing; nay, stop existing just because you're such an entitled douchebag that your ego defines reality!FalloutJack said:
(Sarcasm, exit stage left.)
In all seriousness, would you really think that -for example -because you ignore somebody sneaking up on you with a knife that it won't hurt when you get stabbed?
Another point I'd like to humbly sumbit here, is that nobody seems to have any idea what 'anonymous' actually is. That's kind of the point of anonymous. It's not a group with defined members, goals and ideals. It's not a bunch of hacker kids trying to cause as much mayhem as possible. What it IS is an umbrella term referring to people on the internet who don't want to broadcast their identities. If you make an anonymous post on a forum... You're anonymous. Isn't that concept just MIND-BLOWING?! You're anonymous because you're anonymous! I understand how that kind of reductio ad absurdum may be hard to grasp, but trust me, it's not all that difficult, I mean fuck me, I understand it...
(Sarcasm! Stop sneaking back up on me! Back in your kennel!)
The way I see it? Each and every one of the videos you see or messages you read, is not a definite plan they've made up; it's a throwing down of an idea, a gauntlet to be run, a plot to be picked up, spread, and chewed over until it either has enough people backing it to come to fruition or dies crushed under the weight of it's own bloated wishful thinking. Thing is, if ONE person thinks a certain way about a certain thing, hey - there are roughly SEVEN BILLION of us fuckers on the planet, law of averages states that a good few other people are gonna think the same way. Maybe they'll just be psychologically malleable enough that you can talk them round to your cause, if you're charismatic enough about it?
ANYBODY could take that 'Anonymous News' clip and make a video with it. I could. YOU guys could. As long what you suggested would be justifiable (read: funny) to certain people, it'd probably find itself accomplished before long. Think. How many of these videos have you seen that are laid out in the same format? Some have rousing musical scores and big, bold catchphrases; some have nothing but a blank screen and a synthetic or disguised voice. I'm sure there are plenty of others that run a gamut in between.
You can't stop people doing exactly as they please because you say so, and considering they never had any defined goals or ideals to start with besides doin' it for teh lulz -IE because it's funny or simply for the sake of it -you don't get to say 'They don't stand for what they started out standing for!' 'Cuz let's face it... They didn't really stand for anything! (except maybe the ultimate freedom of the individual to play asinine practical jokes and read smutty fanfics on the net...)
But now they've said that they DO stand for something: freedom of information, and the right to privacy (which might seem contradictory but kind of isn't). The problem there is this: WHO exactly are the ones that stand for and believe in this ideal? WHO exactly are the ones that are just using the name 'anonymous' to protect their own asses while they commit cybercrime? (All of them, nyuck nyuck.) WHO exactly are the ones just hiding behind 'anonymous' while they play stupid jokes? WHO am I? WHO are YOU?
All we know is that the lines are being drawn (with invisible ink on a big rock) and we must decide which side we're on! I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say there will be a definite segregation, something like this:
Birth - early teens: Don't have a clue!
Teens - mid-twenties: All in!
Mid-twenties and up: They're criminals!
Althought being fair, that little analysis right there pretty much sums up EVERY GENERATION SINCE THE FORTIES.
TL;DR: go read it you lazy sannafrannarass'nfrass'n...
You can't really disband something that doesn't qualify itself as a community...
Anonymous will always exist for as long as someone wants to carry out their own cause or ideal in anonymous's name... weather thats "true to anon's ideals" or whatever or not. or weather they have anything to do with anon or not.
Honestly, at this point, im pretty sure anon is just made up of people who want to fuck other people up, and it all started with one guy saying "We are anon, we are legion" or whatever. then it just grew and anyone who wanted a piece, got one.
From what i can tell they dont act as a group. they act as individuals.
But hell, idc. ain't nothing i can say or do that could stop them from doing whatever it is they are exactly trying to do.
Watch the world burn, is my theory (and desire? i'll never tell...)
Anonymous will always exist for as long as someone wants to carry out their own cause or ideal in anonymous's name... weather thats "true to anon's ideals" or whatever or not. or weather they have anything to do with anon or not.
Honestly, at this point, im pretty sure anon is just made up of people who want to fuck other people up, and it all started with one guy saying "We are anon, we are legion" or whatever. then it just grew and anyone who wanted a piece, got one.
From what i can tell they dont act as a group. they act as individuals.
But hell, idc. ain't nothing i can say or do that could stop them from doing whatever it is they are exactly trying to do.
Watch the world burn, is my theory (and desire? i'll never tell...)
I'm at a time in my life when the question "Does a falling tree in the woods make a sound then there's no one to hear it?" becomes more and more practical. I consider myself to be well informed and the only TV I watch are news, history and science programs. I've managed to lay religion and faith questions to rest and found my answer in extreme atheism. But at the same time, I've began to question everything I hear.
I see more and more people care about facts that don't affect them in the least way and, what's worse, they seem to base those facts on things they read on the internet or hear on TV. I've began my tour the force reading 9/11 investigations, both official and conspiracy theories. And a sickening image has started to form, not about that event, but on how we get our information in general. Basic and logical truth is getting muddier by the second and I begin to live in an alternate reality. Science is the worst offender here. Scientists (not all) draw complete conclusion based on flimsy evidence that contradicts common sense and yet we the public take everything they say as a fact. I've replaced the Bible (sorry, the Inquisition) for other forms. I've traded our freedom of thought for easy google searches. If a sentence begins with "scientists say that", "based on recent discoveries...", "wiki leaks has just posted...", "I've just read on wikipedia that.. " I believe it to be true. And it's sickening.
In the end, all I need to know is what directly influences my life. And all I know is what my eyes and ears tell me and how my brains interprets them. So I've began using my brain more.
I've first heard about Anonymous in the wake of the PSN disaster. I've first heard about wiki leaks after they arrested that guy for rape. I suddenly started to care. Here are two entities that promise truth, truths which I've know were there, ever since I've watched Indiana Jones and saw the CIA warehouse. I love to hear that something is kept from me (Monty Python style) and hail as heroes those who reveal proof of that. I don't really care that some plane killed some journalist, I don't just stick to that case. No, I extend it. Suddenly my mind is filled with hundreds of planes piloted by wankers who mistake a Canon for a bazooka, by corrupt generals and an image of the imperialist USA. I just love to get excited.
For me, Anonymous is the guy from V for Vendetta, and suddenly I draw a parallel between that world and ours. I feel oppressed, cry for freedom. I want us to gather in the streets and watch the Parliament building blow up on the 1812 tune. This is the IDEA. And it's false. This is effect forcing its cause. I am free but in my freedom, I chose to feel trapped. And trapped animals do stupid things. We start to cut our own branch. But we're not alone, our actions don't just affect our own lives. We begin to hurt others in the name of that freedom. And that's when the authorities put the boot on us for real, proof (we think) that we were right all along. The only reason Wiki Leaks and Anonymous ever came to be (if they really are real, in any form) is that we were free to begin with. And the only effect they had was to force the governments and corporations to take away some of that freedom. The best example, I think, is the recent Norway massacre. A guy with too much freedom with a false image about the world, hurting people that had no influence on his life. An act which will surely tighten security (Denmark already imposed new border controls).
In any society, even in a perfect one, someone will become a Bin Laden and a lot will follow him. And the rest of the world will find itself wondering just how "perfect" that world used to be. And in the far less than perfect world we live in, we're at the gates of 1984. Total control, no freedom. Groups like Anonymous are just the key for that world. So much so that, based on our views, Anonymous might just very well be CIA operatives used to push in tougher laws, an internet 9/11. I mean, if we're gonna be paranoid about this, let's do so to the end, right?
I see more and more people care about facts that don't affect them in the least way and, what's worse, they seem to base those facts on things they read on the internet or hear on TV. I've began my tour the force reading 9/11 investigations, both official and conspiracy theories. And a sickening image has started to form, not about that event, but on how we get our information in general. Basic and logical truth is getting muddier by the second and I begin to live in an alternate reality. Science is the worst offender here. Scientists (not all) draw complete conclusion based on flimsy evidence that contradicts common sense and yet we the public take everything they say as a fact. I've replaced the Bible (sorry, the Inquisition) for other forms. I've traded our freedom of thought for easy google searches. If a sentence begins with "scientists say that", "based on recent discoveries...", "wiki leaks has just posted...", "I've just read on wikipedia that.. " I believe it to be true. And it's sickening.
In the end, all I need to know is what directly influences my life. And all I know is what my eyes and ears tell me and how my brains interprets them. So I've began using my brain more.
I've first heard about Anonymous in the wake of the PSN disaster. I've first heard about wiki leaks after they arrested that guy for rape. I suddenly started to care. Here are two entities that promise truth, truths which I've know were there, ever since I've watched Indiana Jones and saw the CIA warehouse. I love to hear that something is kept from me (Monty Python style) and hail as heroes those who reveal proof of that. I don't really care that some plane killed some journalist, I don't just stick to that case. No, I extend it. Suddenly my mind is filled with hundreds of planes piloted by wankers who mistake a Canon for a bazooka, by corrupt generals and an image of the imperialist USA. I just love to get excited.
For me, Anonymous is the guy from V for Vendetta, and suddenly I draw a parallel between that world and ours. I feel oppressed, cry for freedom. I want us to gather in the streets and watch the Parliament building blow up on the 1812 tune. This is the IDEA. And it's false. This is effect forcing its cause. I am free but in my freedom, I chose to feel trapped. And trapped animals do stupid things. We start to cut our own branch. But we're not alone, our actions don't just affect our own lives. We begin to hurt others in the name of that freedom. And that's when the authorities put the boot on us for real, proof (we think) that we were right all along. The only reason Wiki Leaks and Anonymous ever came to be (if they really are real, in any form) is that we were free to begin with. And the only effect they had was to force the governments and corporations to take away some of that freedom. The best example, I think, is the recent Norway massacre. A guy with too much freedom with a false image about the world, hurting people that had no influence on his life. An act which will surely tighten security (Denmark already imposed new border controls).
In any society, even in a perfect one, someone will become a Bin Laden and a lot will follow him. And the rest of the world will find itself wondering just how "perfect" that world used to be. And in the far less than perfect world we live in, we're at the gates of 1984. Total control, no freedom. Groups like Anonymous are just the key for that world. So much so that, based on our views, Anonymous might just very well be CIA operatives used to push in tougher laws, an internet 9/11. I mean, if we're gonna be paranoid about this, let's do so to the end, right?
We just need to ignore them. Hackers only hack because they don't have anything else to do, and the attention they get from this keeps them going. Or alternatively, we could make the group seem uncool, then all the /b/tards would stop joining it.FalloutJack said:
My favorite part of my favorite movie ever ^_^Nick Stackware said:
OP: Trying to disband Anon is technically impossible.
Why? Because even when parts of Anon is fighting itself, both parts remain Anon.
All of Anon does not exist, because it is the collective thoughts and motivations of people on the internet, yet that collective gives Anon some tangible existence.
Its a bit complex, and some philosophy/Ghost in the Shell helps in understanding just exactly what Anon is, but as I read a while ago "fighting Anonymous is like fighting a pack of tiny bugs. Anything you do will not do anything, because there is no mass to hit, and the bugs are spread too far to hit. Even if you do hit one, there are still hundreds more. If you whip out fire to kill them all, they just scatter and recombine somewhere else"
So unless you remove anonymity from the internet, you cannot remove Anonymous.