"Heroics" that left a bad taste in your mouth
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(It's been a couple years now, so spoilers aren't really needed anymore.Tayh said:
)You can save Kelly as any kind of Shepard--the only condition in saving her is going straight to Legion's loyalty mission, and then going through the Omega 4 Relay. Now, only a "Renegade" Shepard can save the Horizon colonists, since to do that you have to get the IFF as soon as the mission's available, and you have to skip Legion's loyalty and go straight through the Relay.
Save Chambers/crew: Horizon --> (get ALL THE THINGS) --> IFF --> Legion's loyalty --> Suicide Mission.
Save Chambers/crew and colonists: Horizon --> IFF --> Suicide Mission.
I've never really seen the decision to get the IFF (along with plenty of other "Paragon/Renegade" choices) as Paragon/Renegade, but rather as cautious Shepard versus reckless Shepard.
I don't know if this one has been mentioned, but in Assassin's Creed 3
When Desmond takes out the Apple in front of Vidic, makes a guard shoot him and then all the guards shoot themselves... I don't know about you, but I found that really dark. I thought his dad would say something, but no... I know they were all templars, but still... that was just... really dark.
The thematic purpose? I greatly enjoy the thematic purpose of their relationship, due in no small part to how unheroic it paints Batman out to be. I think the point IS how irrational Batman is about the situation, Joker himself knows this, and feeds the dynamic.Sensko said:
"You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of self righteousness, and I won't kill you, because your just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever"
The fact that Batman not only won't kill Joker, but has repeatably SAVED him is the reason he's still around, the reason he always gets away.
My first time doing that mission... Oh god...Saviordd1 said:
I thought I equipped the knockout grenades, but I didn't realize until the end of the mission when someone yelled at me that they were normal grenades...
I realize now how retarded that sounds but I seriously had no idea. I felt like a prick afterwards.
Nearly every single game has "heroics that leave a bad taste in your mouth" problem is that the game usually has justifiable reasons to fight/kill the big bosses and plot points. What games seldom ever justify is the trail of destruction you leave in your wake to the "big baddies". The hundreds, nay thousands of underlings and minions the player must butcher in order to reach his objective.
In fact the only game I have seen even remotely tackle this subject is Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, where the player must journey down a river and confront every single death the player has caused. Mindless underlings all of them, but the game manages to leave you with the impression that these were actual people that you murdered.
In fact the only game I have seen even remotely tackle this subject is Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, where the player must journey down a river and confront every single death the player has caused. Mindless underlings all of them, but the game manages to leave you with the impression that these were actual people that you murdered.
You shoot Mordin to prevent the genophage cure. The krogan have proved their stupidity numerous times. I actually have no clue when or why you can shoot Legion, so...??Saviordd1 said:
Feros is not "countless innocents" it's 16 people. And why is shooting them evil? So you can try gas grenades which may or may not work, may or may not incapacitate YOU, and may or may not fry their nervous systems, killing them anyway? All the while they're shooting at you, attempting to kill you, when you're pressed for time because you're trying to stop a psychotic turian from destroying ALL LIFE. Hmm.
You are not given the option to turn her over. You can shoot her or leave her there if you let Samara kill herself. I choose to be safe.
During the mission on Rannoch, at the end when you're deciding who to side with, if you side with the Quarians and let the Geth die, Legion attacks Shepard and tells him he won't let him decide the Geth's fate. Tali stabs him in the back, and you are given a Renegade prompt to shoot Legion, not one, not twice, but three times. If you don't take the first prompt, Tali will shoot Legion. Neither the second or third prompt is needed, they're both superfluous. Here's a video!TT Kairen said:
Tayh was talking about saving her in number 3. When you meet her on the citadel you eventually get a paragon/renegade option either congratulating her for helping the refugees (paragon fuzzy on wording and all it's been a while) or telling her to change her name/fake her death because cerberus doesn't just let people leave. LaterVuliev said:(It's been a couple years now, so spoilers aren't really needed anymore.Tayh said:
You can save Kelly as any kind of Shepard--the only condition in saving her is going straight to Legion's loyalty mission, and then going through the Omega 4 Relay. Now, only a "Renegade" Shepard can save the Horizon colonists, since to do that you have to get the IFF as soon as the mission's available, and you have to skip Legion's loyalty and go straight through the Relay.
Save Chambers/crew: Horizon --> (get ALL THE THINGS) --> IFF --> Legion's loyalty --> Suicide Mission.
Save Chambers/crew and colonists: Horizon --> IFF --> Suicide Mission.
I've never really seen the decision to get the IFF (along with plenty of other "Paragon/Renegade" choices) as Paragon/Renegade, but rather as cautious Shepard versus reckless Shepard.
Cerberus attacks the Citadel and afterward if you took the paragon option then she's missing and an npc will tell you that one of the cerberus soldiers asked her who she was and shot her in the head. If you told her to change her name she lives.
Of course if she didn't survive number 2 then it's kind of a moot point.
Also I'm not sure that you can save the Horizon colonists. The wiki makes no mention of it. You can save your entire crew via the method you said but I've never heard of any way to speed things up enough to get the colonists back. The collector ship and the derelict reaper trigger automatically after a certain number of missions after Horizon. (5 i think)no mention of doing it faster or saving anyone but your crew.
OT: Killing the colossi made me feel a bit sad but I'm not sure I'd say it left a bad taste in my mouth. Can't really think of anything else at the moment.
Kratos. He's a protagonist, but he's the villain of the story. So you went evil and killed your family. Big deal! Now the whole pantheon is supposed to die just because killing them *might* make you feel better? I expected nihilistic son-of-a-bitchedness, but damn!
Nathan Drake. Supposed to be not just the good guy but a genuine nice guy, the handsome, quick-witted, likeable fellow we'd all like to be. Then he kills how many people? Per game? I grant you most of them were shooting at him at the time, but didn't they have a right to protect themselves? After a 100+ body count, Nate's continued wisecracking seems macabre rather than clever.
Nathan Drake. Supposed to be not just the good guy but a genuine nice guy, the handsome, quick-witted, likeable fellow we'd all like to be. Then he kills how many people? Per game? I grant you most of them were shooting at him at the time, but didn't they have a right to protect themselves? After a 100+ body count, Nate's continued wisecracking seems macabre rather than clever.
All of the protagonists in that game are shitheads.AgentLampshade said:
Corvo isn't supposed to be a hero, he's supposed to be a revenge-driven bastard with a job to do. Besides, you can kill every target and still get the low chaos endingkman123 said:
it doesnt ALWAYS happen, it just happens a lot. It's a pretty buggy game.Seth Carter said:
I think the deadpan delivery was intentional. Jason is trying to be an action movie star, and always comes up short, even while he becomes a badass. The game doesn't want you to agree with his choices, either, as evidenced by the two endings.Tom_green_day said:
My pick is Kratos. The first two games we are DEFINITELY supposed to be on his side, and the second game gives us no reason to be. Really, Kratos? You're angry that Zeus murdered you? Well maybe you shouldn't have been acting like such a dick. He already had ONE son killed for the exact same thing you're doing, and had you do it! Yeah, the other gods are assholes, but not letting you sit at their lunchtable isn't a good enough reason to destroy the world. But then, all but the first God of War were retarded anyway
GOW3 was almost justified: thanks to the retcon bullshit about pandora's box, they were evil and paranoid and were trying to kill him ever since he became a god. But again, its bullshit retconning, so it gets no points from me.Bayushi_Kouya said:
in GOW2, kratos murders every person he sees so he can take their stuff. Some of them are doing their divinely-appointed JOBS, others are there for the exact same reason he is: selfish hubris. You can't tell Perseus to fuck off because HIS quest to change his fate is less important than YOURS. Or the Barbarian King who beat Kratos in honorable combat, and then got fucked over by deus ex machina.
No, the worst we can say is that Kratos is a selfish, arrogant psychopath who ruins his own life several times over, fails to accept his responsibility, and blames everyone else and murders anyone who stands in his way as a response to the slights he believes he suffers.
Well, there's the problem: In the first game, they reward him for his service and he happily takes up the mantle of the God of War and causes WWII. The sequels (as they often do) proceed to ruin everything. But let's go through the whole (main) series to examine why he's so awful
God of War: Kratos is a merciless soldier who revels in brutality and bloodlust on the battlefield. When faced with death, Kratos calls out for divine intervention and uses magical weapons to kill his opponent while he is frozen by Ares. Having been granted the ability to murder HARDER, Kratos becomes even more depraved and racks up higher body-counts. He kills enemy soldiers AND civilians. When told to destroy Athena's temple and slaughter everyone there, he does so with enthusiasm. It is not until he examines the bodies that he discovers he has murdered his own family, placed there by Ares in an attempt to turn Kratos into an amoral engine of conquest. He feels guilt, but blames Ares, not his own blind lust for carnage, for their deaths. He then pledges service to Olympus in return for an escape from his guilt. He doesn't seek forgiveness, he wants the memories of his crime removed so he can continue living (though, he does believe his guilt is actually a torment sent by the gods as punishment for his crime). After killing his brother Ares, Kratos finally begins to show some sign of growth. He is told that the gods cannot remove the memory of his crimes, but that he is forgiven. Faced with the knowledge that his feelings are not divine punishment, he casts himself into the sea (either as an escape or punishment, this is open to interpretation. His line "now there is no hope" says escape to me.) He is saved and granted godhood in Ares station, which he happily accepts and goes on to cause history as we know it to ensue. In the post-game, Kratos visits his dying mother and learns Zeus was his father, whereupon he swears vengeance upon the god because he didn't hang around to be a family. Meanwhile, his little brother looks up from Hades and swears vengeance on Kratos for being physically fit. Clearly, the family just has anger issues.
In GOW2, we have a semi-retcon (as well as one which says Kratos never learned his parentage) that the gods snub Kratos because he used to be mortal. Dickish, but reasonable. Kratos' response is to attack their cities, doing the exact same thing that got his olympian brother executed. By him. Kratos is told to stop multiple times (though only once onscreen) to stop doing that shit. When he doesn't, Zeus shows up as an eagle and shrinks Kratos. Kratos can't be bothered to pay attention and doesn't immediately know WHO shrunk him, even though logically it had to be Zeus even if he HADN'T done it in eagle form. Like a dumbass, kratos gives the rest of his power to a magic sword supplied by the god who clearly just "betrayed" him. Then he gets told exactly what he did wrong, and why he's being punished, and is impaled through the chest for at least the second time in his miserable life. Kratos refuses to accept any wrongdoing on his part, crawls out of the underworld, and says he's going to murder all the gods, especially Zeus. He also decides the only way to go about this is to wreck time and fate in order to time travel, for no good reason except to make it look very dramatic. Along the way he murders several others who share his arrogant idea that deserve to change their own fate, as well as some who are only doing their job to prevent him. At the end of his quest, he kills the only friend he had on Olympus because he refuses to listen to her. He learns Zeus is his father and decides that he needs to kill him HARDER because of this, for some reason. He then frees the titans in order to launch an assault on the remaining gods.
GOW3 retcons it that Athena was evil the whole time, the others are evil and paranoid that kratos would kill them, so they tried to kill him first. Despite learning that killing the gods destroys the world, he continues, because... He's also a dick to everyone he meets. Usually a murderous dick. But, because now THE WHOLE WORLD IS EVIL AND OUT TO GET HIM, kratos is at least partially justified in his slaughter. He also may have learned that killing is wrong. As he dies. With the shattered, ruined world around him. Too bad the only way to get there was massive retcons.
When I first booted up the game, not knowing what to expect, I thought it was going to involve more platforming and mechanical/animal hazards, with perhaps a tad of gunplay against humans, just for spice. The opening cinematic set a lighthearted, adventurous, Indiana Jones tone. (Yes, I know Indy kills a few people, but a few is a few). That was what I was expecting, that fights to the death would be rare, dramatic moments. Then Nate goes on to wage a one-man war against an endless army of nameless mooks we're supposed to accept are evil and disposable because they have dark skin. It just seemed out of place. It's been a while since I played the game, maybe I'm forgetting the part where they got hit with the big rubber stamp that says E V I L.imahobbit4062 said:
I'm not sure about games, but for webcomics, Keychain of Creation had Misho's little interaction with
.
I mean, he's supposed to be a nice guy, and he tries to make it sound like he was just putting on a stern teacher face, that it was neccesary. But seriously:
I get pissed off every time I remember that. It was a dick move worthy of the Ebon Dragon, the universal incarnation of being an asshole in that setting.
Secret's father
I mean, he's supposed to be a nice guy, and he tries to make it sound like he was just putting on a stern teacher face, that it was neccesary. But seriously:
Where the HELL do you get off telling someone that you're going to, for all intents and purposes KILL someone, in front of their own daughter, because the man's somehow unnatural because he's a ghost. And when the ghost objects, saying he has no right? Well, apparently it's perfectly fine to take a "because I'm way more powerful than you" approach. Compassion 5 my ass, that's the kind of thing I'd expect from the villains
I get pissed off every time I remember that. It was a dick move worthy of the Ebon Dragon, the universal incarnation of being an asshole in that setting.