Heteronormaltivity in games

[Norix596]

y they no make gay characters you ask? Well because it's viewed as a creativity risk that's unwilling to pay off or to backfire in an American audience as poorly as that reflects on us as a country. I think there might be some hope in the fact that the bigoted "impure values" crowed that would be mobilized to complain is already regularly against gaming to no avail annnnyway... so... It might be another one of those self-fulfilling prophesies.

So in Make-Your-Own-Character games it's becoming more common but that's kind of empty as an "achievement" of a diverse case because frequently there's just one designated "gay relationship NPC" - but even beyond that I think it's something different to have a written character, much more so a main character who is gay rather than being variable in appearance, gender, personality, orientation and what have you. A possible option is to have it be "subtle" and not bang the audience over the head with it like in the American Port of Fire Emblem: Path of Radience. But I don't think any one is going to be served by just trying to crowbar in a designated gay side character with their sexual orientation as their defining characteristic because that's what I'm afraid is likely to happen.

 

[lord.jeff]

Because writing is hard and writing interesting gay characters spends valuable time and money that can be better spent shooting things.

Why would writing an interesting gay character be any different then writing an interesting straight character? Or are you saying you just want less story and character development in general?

 

[Noetherian]

Having an exclusively gay character might make some people uncomfortable I guess?

Well, that's exactly the problem. It would be just like the way things are now-- having almost nothing but straight male characters makes women and gay people uncomfortable, too. Only they don't have the option of avoiding that by encouraging the status quo. I do want to commend you for understanding why this is problematic and hard to talk about, and to thank you for recognizing your privilege here.

There's been a lot of good debate on this topic on the Star Wars: the Old Republic forums, in response to Bioware's lackluster fulfillment of their promise to provide same-sex relationships in that game. (ALL the companion characters are straight, and only in the new expansion can you so much as flirt with same-sex NPC's. Hardly balanced, and hardly living up to Bioware's usual standard, despite protests on the part of the userbase.) OK-- I say debate, but it's been almost entirely among users, as BioWare seems to have many other more important things to deal with.

One of the suggestions BioWare has openly rejected is the idea of making same-sex options "toggled," so that for example if seeing two men kiss makes you so uncomfortable you just can't play the game anymore, you could check a box and have it hidden from you. BioWare called this "hate speech" and has banned any further discussion of that option.

As someone who's emphatically for inclusion in gaming, I feel conflicted about that decision. BioWare seems to have taken a big step forward with their decree that, effectively, homophobes need to relax already, while at the same time they've taken several steps back in refusing to make good on their promise of same-sex relationships in any kind of timely fashion. I'd almost be happier with their continued focus on pleasing the homophobic audience if we could at least check a box to get access to the progressive content the rest of us are comfortable with and in many cases enthusiastic about.

What do you escapists think? Would a toggle or "sexual preference(s)" setting at the start of a game be an acceptable solution, or at least preferable to the current dearth of representation for the "10%"?

(Personally, I have always found that 10% statistic ridiculous, as so many people are still closeted and understandably uncomfortable disclosing their sexuality. It also doesn't begin to address asexuality, which could be another option for gaming entirely.)

 

[CelestDaer]

Very few games have handled homosexuality well, and those that have have done so by downplaying that character's sexuality (Persona 4's Kanji notwithstanding).

Kanji isn't gay. He's confused. He doesn't trust women because of his enjoyment of sewing and other stereotypically 'feminine' things, and he thinks men will understand. After his dungeon, the only person who calls him gay or even insinuates it is Yosuke because he doesn't entirely trust Kanji.

Can you prove that? Do you have specific cases of games failing because the public went "Oh no! A gay character! I can't buy this game!"

Not a game, but Paranorman, and Neil's older brother? Made one comment about his boyfriend, and people got pissed.

 

[shootthebandit]

Bill from The Last of Us is gay, as in he's a well written character that just happens to be gay. Guess since he's not all stereotypical, flamboyant and you don't get to romance him (but it's not like you get to romance anyone in this game) and you don't get to play as him, people don't mention him much, if at all, in these types of threads.

when do you find this out, i might have missed it or not got to that point yet?

Spoiler: do you find out when...

you are in the town and he rescues you when youre hanging upside down, or when you get the car and drop him off at that building in the car? or is it when elle finds that magazine? (if so id didnt realise it was bills)

ON TOPIC: the reason there isnt many gay people in games is because there isnt many gay people in real life. OP even said it "heteronormaltivity" its normal to be hetero *disclaimer* i mean normal in the sense that the vast majority of people are straight, not that its ever acceptable to even consider a homosexual as "abnormal" *disclaimer*

I don't want to play as a gay man in a game. I don't like playing as a female either. Thats probably why things like that are optional and can be skipped.

What if I don't want to play as a straight man? Can I skip that in Dead Space? Or Gears of War? Or Grand Theft Auto?

I'd really like to skip it in GTA.

*cough* ballad of GAY tony *cough* you might not have played as the title character but he was significant enough to be titled

As a straight man, homosexuality doesnt bother me in the slightest. I couldnt care less if my character was gay or straight in the same way it doesnt matter if my character is black or white. I honestly dont understand why people make such a big deal out of it. how many silent protagonists do we have in gaming that may actually be homosexual. Unless the character actually engages in sexual activity or has a wife/partner or specifically reveals/ hints their homosexuality how are we to know? Just like real life most homosexuals you would never know unless they actually told you

Also Call of Duty multiplayer is full of homosexuals thousands of them, every time i go on that game theres constantly someone calling someone else a "fag" (where i come from this is actually a purely innocent term for a cigarette) in order to deflect their own latent homosexuality

 

[jehk]

I'd really like to skip it in GTA.

*cough* ballad of GAY tony *cough* you might not have played as the title character but he was significant enough to be titled

I was thinking more along the lines of playing a women.

 

[Silvanus]

As a straight man, homosexuality doesnt bother me in the slightest. I couldnt care less if my character was gay or straight in the same way it doesnt matter if my character is black or white. I honestly dont understand why people make such a big deal out of it.

I think the reason you "don't understand why people make such a big deal out of", could be because you are of the demographic the games industry caters to.

If almost every romantic sub-plot in games was gay, you may feel a little differently. I don't doubt that a lot of the commentators here would have the opposite stance if it was the other way around. I'm not saying you're homophobic; I'm just saying that most people take heteronormativity for granted, and that's why they don't see a problem.



To those saying something to the effect of;

"Lots of protagonists (Master Chief, Gordon Freeman etc) don't mention their sexuality! They could be gay!"

...well, yes, they could be. But that's not the issue here. In every case of a protagonist with a romantic sub-plot written into the game, of which there are many, it is straight.

Saying that these silent characters could be gay, is essentially saying that we can just go imagine a story for ourselves when the industry fails to give a shit.

 

[Doom972]

Making a game in which you have to be a gay character might alienate a lot of people. I would play the game for the same reasons I play any other game, but explicit gay male sexual content would be a turn-off for me. Other people, however, might decide to pass on the game just for featuring a gay protagonist. When making a game, publishers/developers don't want to take that kind of risk (many are still worried about a straight female protagonist alienating a lot of people).

the sad but true fact is, if the main character is gay, and im not talking bi like in a lot of EA Bioware games, but gay, it wouldnt sell as well, and game makers are trying to make money. Plain and simple.

Can you prove that? Do you have specific cases of games failing because the public went "Oh no! A gay character! I can't buy this game!"

Do you need proof of intolerance towards LGBT existing?

 

[LadyLightning]

I don't want to play as a gay man in a game. I don't like playing as a female either. Thats probably why things like that are optional and can be skipped.

What if I don't want to play as a straight man? Can I skip that in Dead Space? Or Gears of War? Or Grand Theft Auto?

I'd really like to skip it in GTA.

This is why you should play Saint's Row instead. Same kind of gameplay, same open-world style, but you create your own character, male, female, transgender, gay, straight or bi.

 

[jehk]

I don't want to play as a gay man in a game. I don't like playing as a female either. Thats probably why things like that are optional and can be skipped.

What if I don't want to play as a straight man? Can I skip that in Dead Space? Or Gears of War? Or Grand Theft Auto?

I'd really like to skip it in GTA.

This is why you should play Saint's Row instead. Same kind of gameplay, same open-world style, but you create your own character, male, female, transgender, gay, straight or bi.

I have played SR 3/4. I'd still like to play GTA as a women.

EDIT: Just lamenting so many open world games have a static male protagonist.

 

[shootthebandit]

As a straight man, homosexuality doesnt bother me in the slightest. I couldnt care less if my character was gay or straight in the same way it doesnt matter if my character is black or white. I honestly dont understand why people make such a big deal out of it.

If almost every romantic sub-plot in games was gay, you may feel a little differently.

almost every romance in real life is straight so of course it would be a little odd to see every relationship being homosexual. Bearing that in mind homosexuality still is represented equally enough. If we say a good 5%-10% of the populus is gay (depending on where you live). far less than 5% of characters in video games are gay (and even then they tend to be a characature) which really is a shame. Like i said as long as the gameplay is good my character can be straight or gay black or white

in fact heres an idea: what if there was a game where the protagonist searches for his fiance Ashley. As the game plays on we assume that the main character is actually straight until the finale where we find Ashley and he is a man. All throughout the story ashleys gender is never revealed but one would naturally assume it was a woman. I think something like that would be pretty cool

 

[Miss G.]

Bill from The Last of Us is gay, as in he's a well written character that just happens to be gay. Guess since he's not all stereotypical, flamboyant and you don't get to romance him (but it's not like you get to romance anyone in this game) and you don't get to play as him, people don't mention him much, if at all, in these types of threads.

when do you find this out, i might have missed it or not got to that point yet?

Spoiler: do you find out when...

you are in the town and he rescues you when youre hanging upside down, or when you get the car and drop him off at that building in the car? or is it when elle finds that magazine? (if so id didnt realise it was bills)

The last one with the magazine and also Frank was his partner (he hesitated just a smidgen when telling Joel about this partner and his story of realizing that he had to look out for number one). If he was just a regular partner in terms of just helping him to survive, like the other pairs/groups you run across during the story, there'd be no need for this hesitation and further explanation from Bill that he (Frank) was someone he had to take care of.

 

[DarkRyter]

Heteronormaltivity

Okay. This can't be a real word. You are making this up.

 

[shootthebandit]

Bill from The Last of Us is gay, as in he's a well written character that just happens to be gay. Guess since he's not all stereotypical, flamboyant and you don't get to romance him (but it's not like you get to romance anyone in this game) and you don't get to play as him, people don't mention him much, if at all, in these types of threads.

when do you find this out, i might have missed it or not got to that point yet?

Spoiler: do you find out when...

you are in the town and he rescues you when youre hanging upside down, or when you get the car and drop him off at that building in the car? or is it when elle finds that magazine? (if so id didnt realise it was bills)

The last one with the magazine and also Frank was his partner (he hesitated just a smidgen when telling Joel about this partner and his story of realizing that he had to look out for number one). If he was just a regular partner in terms of just helping him to survive, like the other pairs/groups you run across during the story, there'd be no need for this hesitation and further explanation from Bill that he (Frank) was someone he had to take care of.

I always thought it wasnt his car and the magazine was just left there from someone else but it makes sense now

 

[Silvanus]

almost every romance in real life is straight so of course it would be a little odd to see every relationship being homosexual.

That's true; my aim was solely to request that you see it from my (or the OP's) perspective. Switch the situation around, and imagine that every protagonist's romance was of a sexuality that you don't share. It can be a bit alienating.

in fact heres an idea: what if there was a game where the protagonist searches for his fiance Ashley. As the game plays on we assume that the main character is actually straight until the finale where we find Ashley and he is a man. All throughout the story ashleys gender is never revealed but one would naturally assume it was a woman. I think something like that would be pretty cool

That does sound pretty cool, I must admit. It'd challenge people's preconceptions, and it'd make the point that such things needn't change the gameplay/ portrayal.

 

[Miss G.]

Bill from The Last of Us is gay, as in he's a well written character that just happens to be gay. Guess since he's not all stereotypical, flamboyant and you don't get to romance him (but it's not like you get to romance anyone in this game) and you don't get to play as him, people don't mention him much, if at all, in these types of threads.

when do you find this out, i might have missed it or not got to that point yet?

Spoiler: do you find out when...

you are in the town and he rescues you when youre hanging upside down, or when you get the car and drop him off at that building in the car? or is it when elle finds that magazine? (if so id didnt realise it was bills)

The last one with the magazine and also Frank was his partner (he hesitated just a smidgen when telling Joel about this partner and his story of realizing that he had to look out for number one). If he was just a regular partner in terms of just helping him to survive, like the other pairs/groups you run across during the story, there'd be no need for this hesitation and further explanation from Bill that he (Frank) was someone he had to take care of.

I always thought it wasnt his car and the magazine was just left there from someone else but it makes sense now

Ellie, stole it from his stash (like she does at times), that she said she was just fixing after he specifically told her not to touch anything.

 

[Silvanus]

There's no need to being in sexuality tbh unless it's relevant to the story.

Did Dead Space, or Skyward Sword, or Gears of War "bring in sexuality"? No, they brought in romance. It's never considered "bringing in sexuality" when it's straight; hell, it's never even questioned at all.

 

[Miss G.]

As a straight man, homosexuality doesnt bother me in the slightest. I couldnt care less if my character was gay or straight in the same way it doesnt matter if my character is black or white. I honestly dont understand why people make such a big deal out of it.

If almost every romantic sub-plot in games was gay, you may feel a little differently.

almost every romance in real life is straight so of course it would be a little odd to see every relationship being homosexual. Bearing that in mind homosexuality still is represented equally enough. If we say a good 5%-10% of the populus is gay (depending on where you live). far less than 5% of characters in video games are gay (and even then they tend to be a characature) which really is a shame. Like i said as long as the gameplay is good my character can be straight or gay black or white

in fact heres an idea: what if there was a game where the protagonist searches for his fiance Ashley. As the game plays on we assume that the main character is actually straight until the finale where we find Ashley and he is a man. All throughout the story ashleys gender is never revealed but one would naturally assume it was a woman. I think something like that would be pretty cool

That'd be cool considering the fact that I know more male Ashleys, Danas, and Vivians than girl ones. Also the idea would teach people a thing or two about assumptions (you know what they say about the word 'assume') and perception, because if you were fine with it up to that point, you'd have to start thinking.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I can only imagine what would happen if these same "heterocentric" producers tried to create a game character that's openly gay after making so many 30-something white dudes.

It'd borderline caricature at best. By that, I mean that if gay people want to get not only more "representation" among gaming characters, but ACCURATE representation, they're going to need gays working on the creativity.

Because I've seen the parallel problem from Hollywood, and it ain't pretty.
(Transformers 3's "Deep Wang", anyone?)

 

[bug_of_war]

Can't a game just be that, a game. I generally don't buy a game for it's story, I buy it because it looks fun, why is it that recently everyone has become hung up on games having to have stories where in which the main character's/side character's lives have to be explored in depth. What happened to the simple, "You are x, this is x's goal...go"? who cares if Marcus Fenix is gay, dude carries a chainsaw gun and brutally murders monsters, THAT'S fun. I cringe enough when a game has a romance plot(sex scenes in Dragon Age/Heavy Rain/Red Dead Redemption, dialogue in Mass Effect/Skyrim/GTA) let alone when they start making characters flaunt their sexuality.

I have a special little hatred for the phrase, "My name is _________ and I'm gay" because if you interchange "straight" for "gay" it just looks and sounds stupid. Sexuality shouldn't define a person, fictional or real, so how bout we stop worrying about whether Reptile from Mortal Kombat is gay and start enjoying video games.